Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Should Johney be given any credit for playing in the SEC? Should bortles be scrutenized for playing in Con USA?
Theres no comparison between the two...
There are a lot of NFL players on SEC defenses.
Should Johney be given any credit for playing in the SEC? Should bortles be scrutenized for playing in Con USA?
Theres no comparison between the two...
There are a lot of NFL players on SEC defenses.
As someone pointed out: Roethlisberger, Flacco, Romo, Kaepernick, Alex Smith, Cutler, and a few others did not play at high profile football schools. Getting a guy from UCF may not be that bad. Daunte Culpepper played there, and he was pretty good.
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@mike-h said:
Plus he will sell tickets for atleast another season. From a business standpoint, it's hard to imagine him not being the pick.
I'm watching Manziel tape for the next week, hopefully he holds up to Teddy B.
The Browns don't need Manziel to sell tickets. Those tickets are already sold. They need someone to win.
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I am torn between the two ... today I lean toward Johnny ... but why isn't Derek Carr in the conversation? Why is Bortles a better prospect than Carr?
(I'm not being a smartass ... I am just now jumping into this discussion, and I want to know what everyone thinks.)
Zombo
Zombo said:
I am torn between the two ... today I lean toward Johnny ... but why isn't Derek Carr in the conversation? Why is Bortles a better prospect than Carr?
(I'm not being a smartass ... I am just now jumping into this discussion, and I want to know what everyone thinks.)
Zombo
A lot of people feel that Carr was exposed by USC as another Brandon Weeden, a big guy with a big arm lacking the mental acuity to find success in the NFL. I was never too high on Carr for that reason, but who knows, maybe he was just rusty or jittery. It wouldn't be the worst thing to take a chance on him if he falls to the second round...
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i don't know but if clowney is there when we pick or if he's gone and watkins is there.........
i would take a chance on carr with our second 1st rounder.
anyone has to be smarter in the pocket than weeden.
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I am torn between the two ... today I lean toward Johnny ... but why isn't Derek Carr in the conversation? Why is Bortles a better prospect than Carr?
(I'm not being a smartass ... I am just now jumping into this discussion, and I want to know what everyone thinks.)
Zombo
Zombo said:
I am torn between the two ... today I lean toward Johnny ... but why isn't Derek Carr in the conversation? Why is Bortles a better prospect than Carr?
(I'm not being a smartass ... I am just now jumping into this discussion, and I want to know what everyone thinks.)
Zombo
Carr is the product of a system and benefitted from playing a very weak schedule. The only real team he had to face was USC and the system was ever present in that game. Carr threw 54 passes, completing 30 of them, yet could only manage just over 200 yards. His YPA was very low, at 4.0. That's the Schramm system at play.
Meanwhile, UCF faced three top 10 ranked schools this year, beating two of them and losing to S.Carolina by only a field goal. Bortles had a higher completion percentage, more TD's, 100 more yards, and double the YPA against a top ranked Baylor in his bowl game.
Carr is Graham Harrell with an NFL body. He's got everything you'd want on paper, but his decision making and mental agility is lacking. You could have taken any number of guys in college and put them in Carr's place and they would have seen the same amount of success.
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Rennet played in the ACC, Shaw in the SEC. That's all you need to say.
The ACC may have the National Champion, but the SEC is a much stronger conference. South Carolina played 5 top 25 teams this season and beat all of them. 6 of their opponents were bowl victors this year, and South Carolina beat all 6 of those teams.
North Carolina, on the other hand, played 2 top 25 teams this year and lost to both of them.
Shaw did his damage against quality defenses in big time games. Renner did not.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I have to admit, Canton Mike is starting to convince me about Manziel being the great pick.
Johnny does have that fire, fierceness, love for the game, competitiveness and toughness, and
bigtime football smarts.
Although, I still wonder if Manziel is better off playing in a dome. Look at his college schedule.
Plays southern teams. How does he function in Nov and Dec in the swirling winds and snow
and rain in a northern open air stadium? Can he still be Manziel the escape artist? Can he
make the required throws vs the wind ?
In college, he almost always played in nice weather. That won't happen even if he is drafted
by a team with a dome. Throwing into tight windows in those conditions?
I don't know. But I can't really be all in with Johnny Manziel just yet, because it's too much fun to
make jokes and disagree with Canton Mike over the phone.
I have to admit, Canton Mike is starting to convince me about Manziel being the great pick.
Johnny does have that fire, fierceness, love for the game, competitiveness and toughness, and
bigtime football smarts.
Although, I still wonder if Manziel is better off playing in a dome. Look at his college schedule.
Plays southern teams. How does he function in Nov and Dec in the swirling winds and snow
and rain in a northern open air stadium? Can he still be Manziel the escape artist? Can he
make the required throws vs the wind ?
In college, he almost always played in nice weather. That won't happen even if he is drafted
by a team with a dome. Throwing into tight windows in those conditions?
I don't know. But I can't really be all in with Johnny Manziel just yet, because it's too much fun to
make jokes and disagree with Canton Mike over the phone.
Manziel is reported to have massive hands and wears a size 15 shoe. Weather shouldn't be a problem for Johnny. Guys with small hands that have trouble gripping the ball when wet are the one's that struggle......And I've never seen a 6 foot man with size 15 shoes, I think he grows another inch or two.
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Rennet played in the ACC, Shaw in the SEC. That's all you need to say.
The ACC may have the National Champion, but the SEC is a much stronger conference. South Carolina played 5 top 25 teams this season and beat all of them. 6 of their opponents were bowl victors this year, and South Carolina beat all 6 of those teams.
North Carolina, on the other hand, played 2 top 25 teams this year and lost to both of them.
Shaw did his damage against quality defenses in big time games. Renner did not.
Rennet played in the ACC, Shaw in the SEC. That's all you need to say.
The ACC may have the National Champion, but the SEC is a much stronger conference. South Carolina played 5 top 25 teams this season and beat all of them. 6 of their opponents were bowl victors this year, and South Carolina beat all 6 of those teams.
North Carolina, on the other hand, played 2 top 25 teams this year and lost to both of them.
Shaw did his damage against quality defenses in big time games. Renner did not.
Irrelevent what conference he played in, if he can do the job.
Look at the QBs left in the playoffs:
Brady/Brees/Wilson Big Ten. Manning/Newton SEC. Luck Pac 12. Rivers ACC. Kaepernick Mountain West.
You are drafting a player, not a school, not a conference.
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Rennet played in the ACC, Shaw in the SEC. That's all you need to say.
The ACC may have the National Champion, but the SEC is a much stronger conference. South Carolina played 5 top 25 teams this season and beat all of them. 6 of their opponents were bowl victors this year, and South Carolina beat all 6 of those teams.
North Carolina, on the other hand, played 2 top 25 teams this year and lost to both of them.
Shaw did his damage against quality defenses in big time games. Renner did not.
Irrelevent what conference he played in, if he can do the job.
Look at the QBs left in the playoffs:
Brady/Brees/Wilson Big Ten. Manning/Newton SEC. Luck Pac 12. Rivers ACC. Kaepernick Mountain West.
You are drafting a player, not a school, not a conference.
You are drafting a prospect, not a player. You have no idea what kind of player he'll become, therefore you evaluate all variables, including conference.Irrelevent what conference he played in, if he can do the job.
Look at the QBs left in the playoffs:
Brady/Brees/Wilson Big Ten. Manning/Newton SEC. Luck Pac 12. Rivers ACC. Kaepernick Mountain West.
You are drafting a player, not a school, not a conference.
When you two players with similar stats and similar measurables, you take the guy who did it against better talent.
You don't have to agree with it. But Shaw is a better prospect than Renner.
Just because you fail to accept that the SEC is a far superior conference compared to the Big Ten doesn't make it any less accurate.
The SEC finished with 7 Top 25 teams. The Bug Ten had 3.
The SEC had just as many Top 5 teams as the Big Ten did Top 25 teams.
The only thing that's irrelevant in this argument are the QB's you listed. Each one of them played for Top 25 ranked teams and played ranked, quality out of conference opponents. Unlike Renner. Unlike Carr. Unlike Garropolo.
Tony Romo or Joe Flacco would have been more apt comparisons, as they didn't play nearly the same level of talent in college as their counterparts.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Just saw that posted that there's possible interest. Cowboys have the 16th or 17th pick in the 1st round. If Watkins is gone by our pick.....trade with the cowboys for Romo and at least one other pick?
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You are drafting a prospect, not a player. You have no idea what kind of player he'll become, therefore you evaluate all variables, including conference.Irrelevent what conference he played in, if he can do the job.
Look at the QBs left in the playoffs:
Brady/Brees/Wilson Big Ten. Manning/Newton SEC. Luck Pac 12. Rivers ACC. Kaepernick Mountain West.
You are drafting a player, not a school, not a conference.
When you two players with similar stats and similar measurables, you take the guy who did it against better talent.
You don't have to agree with it. But Shaw is a better prospect than Renner.
Just because you fail to accept that the SEC is a far superior conference compared to the Big Ten doesn't make it any less accurate.
The SEC finished with 7 Top 25 teams. The Bug Ten had 3.
The SEC had just as many Top 5 teams as the Big Ten did Top 25 teams.
The only thing that's irrelevant in this argument are the QB's you listed. Each one of them played for Top 25 ranked teams and played ranked, quality out of conference opponents. Unlike Renner. Unlike Carr. Unlike Garropolo.
Tony Romo or Joe Flacco would have been more apt comparisons, as they didn't play nearly the same level of talent in college as their counterparts.
You are drafting a prospect, not a player. You have no idea what kind of player he'll become, therefore you evaluate all variables, including conference.
NO, when you draft him, he is a player.
When you two players with similar stats and similar measurables, you take the guy who did it against better talent.
When scouts bottom line this, there is no such thing.
You don't have to agree with it. But Shaw is a better prospect than Renner.
He may be, but it has nothing to do with the fact that he played in the SEC and the other guy didn't.
Just because you fail to accept that the SEC is a far superior conference compared to the Big Ten doesn't make it any less accurate.
Has nothing to do with the Big Ten or anywhere else....it has to do with "who is/will be better".
Pierre Garcon is a pretty darn good receiver. He played DIII ball....so it was irrelevent. You try to choose a good player.
The SEC finished with 7 Top 25 teams. The Bug Ten had 3.
The SEC had just as many Top 5 teams as the Big Ten did Top 25 teams.
Are we talking about the College rankings....or about guys playing professional football? I thought it was the latter.
The only thing that's irrelevant in this argument are the QB's you listed. Each one of them played for Top 25 ranked teams and played ranked, quality out of conference opponents. Unlike Renner. Unlike Carr. Unlike Garropolo.
Tony Romo or Joe Flacco would have been more apt comparisons, as they didn't play nearly the same level of talent in college as their counterparts.
I think you just made my point. Flacco/Romo/BR all came from smaller schools.
Is it more likely that the "Power Conferences" would produce more better players? Certainly, because they naturally generally recruit the better talent. But that is not the be all end all.
E.g. : I truly don't know anything much about this Renner or Shaw. I only saw some snippets of games played by South Carolina this year, and probably none by Renner, wherever he went to school.
But, am I automatically going to conclude that Shaw will make a better Pro Quarterback prospect than Renner just because he played in the SEC? Hell no.
Wherever these guys played the NFL scouts must do their due diligence on them.
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Shaw??
6'nothing, 200 lbs soaking wet, with an extensive injury history? With a 2013 completion percentage of only 63.4%, good for 38th in FBS I-A... Sure he plays in the SEC, but other than the bowl game against Wisconsin, his 4 best games this year came against unranked Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, and Coastal Carolina...
Comparing him to Renner is one thing. Comparing him to Manziel (who played in the same conference) is laughable...
I don't think Manziel is a top 10 pick, but he can easily be a 1st rounder while Shaw is a 6th or 7th pick who you hope turns into a decent backup...
#Justsayin' -
Just saw that posted that there's possible interest. Cowboys have the 16th or 17th pick in the 1st round. If Watkins is gone by our pick.....trade with the cowboys for Romo and at least one other pick?
Just saw that posted that there's possible interest. Cowboys have the 16th or 17th pick in the 1st round. If Watkins is gone by our pick.....trade with the cowboys for Romo and at least one other pick?
No. No Romo. He will be 34 next year. He would not be the Browns future. If they want to trade for our #4 pick.....give us their #16, their #1 next year....and Dez Bryant.
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Just saw that posted that there's possible interest. Cowboys have the 16th or 17th pick in the 1st round. If Watkins is gone by our pick.....trade with the cowboys for Romo and at least one other pick?
No. No Romo. He will be 34 next year. He would not be the Browns future. If they want to trade for our #4 pick.....give us their #16, their #1 next year....and Dez Bryant.
No. No Romo. He will be 34 next year. He would not be the Browns future. If they want to trade for our #4 pick.....give us their #16, their #1 next year....and Desmond Bryant.
Oh I would take Romo in a heartbeat. He's 33 ... that's at least four years with a bonafide franchise QB.
You roll the dice on one of these rookies and it doesn't work out it is another wasted four years.
Zombo
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No. No Romo. He will be 34 next year. He would not be the Browns future. If they want to trade for our #4 pick.....give us their #16, their #1 next year....and Desmond Bryant.
Oh I would take Romo in a heartbeat. He's 33 ... that's at least four years with a bonafide franchise QB.
You roll the dice on one of these rookies and it doesn't work out it is another wasted four years.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Oh I would take Romo in a heartbeat. He's 33 ... that's at least four years with a bonafide franchise QB.
You roll the dice on one of these rookies and it doesn't work out it is another wasted four years.
Zombo
If he is cut by the Cowboys and the Browns pick him up as a veteran FA....OK, maybe. But I am not in favor of trading draft picks for him.
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Zombo said:
Oh I would take Romo in a heartbeat. He's 33 ... that's at least four years with a bonafide franchise QB.
You roll the dice on one of these rookies and it doesn't work out it is another wasted four years.
Zombo
If he is cut by the Cowboys and the Browns pick him up as a veteran FA....OK, maybe. But I am not in favor of trading draft picks for him.
If he is cut by the Cowboys and the Browns pick him up as a veteran FA....OK, maybe. But I am not in favor of trading draft picks for him.
I'd switch first rounders for him. He's one of the best QBs in the league.
Zombo
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I'll take Johnny Football, he is wildly intelligent, ultra competitive and have an underrated arm. I don't think he will be running around much in the NFL but the way he feel pressure and makes the right decision under duress is pretty much the opposite of Brandon Weeden.
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problem is we have to protect him. Cleveland is historically bad at protecting our qb. I didn't know he was going to be a FA this year. Better to go that route and keep our #1. If we were to get Romo...than for sure Watkins has to be 1st on our board with Clowney 2nd.
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If he is cut by the Cowboys and the Browns pick him up as a veteran FA....OK, maybe. But I am not in favor of trading draft picks for him.
I'd switch first rounders for him. He's one of the best QBs in the league.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I'd switch first rounders for him. He's one of the best QBs in the league.
Zombo
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Cowboys are not trading Romo, they just signed him to a new deal...because of the way the NFL has moved to a slotted rookie wage scale it becomes much more cost effective to have a Vet QB with a top 5 pick sitting on the bench learning the system and developing.
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