Dream Scenerio
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You morons crack me up. Multiple people have been on record saying Manziel was a professional and won't scare anyone away during the interviews. The guy is a young man who partied more than she should have. All the while on game day he was carving up defenses and setting records against the best conference in America. But all means, let's draft a guard and take another slow thinking high character guy like McCoy who sucks. You can quote me that everyone who doesn't draft this kid will be pissed. I could care the fuck less how he acts, if he is throwing TD passes he can snort coke for all I care.
You morons crack me up. Multiple people have been on record saying Manziel was a professional and won't scare anyone away during the interviews. The guy is a young man who partied more than she should have. All the while on game day he was carving up defenses and setting records against the best conference in America. But all means, let's draft a guard and take another slow thinking high character guy like McCoy who sucks. You can quote me that everyone who doesn't draft this kid will be pissed. I could care the fuck less how he acts, if he is throwing TD passes he can snort coke for all I care.
He has more of a reputation than just partying a little to much in college. He has had issues with alcohol since at least being a junior in high school. His own father has expressed concerns that the limelight of the NFL and the money that comes with it will destroy his son and let his habits run wild. He has already had to see alcohol counselors more than once. If you add the potential off field issues to his lack of physical attributes it equals hands off. I have to think many teams wouldn't touch him. He is a time bomb and would be a foolish draft pick.
Given his history and the fact there are several other talented alternatives would you hire this guy you run your own company?
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With the 4th pick of the NFL draft the Cleveland Browns select Johnny Manzel. And a day or so later it is reported the Johnny Football is VERY VERY public about not wanting to play in Cleveland and is demanding to be traded or he will not play in2014 season. Rips the front office and everything. I would love it..
With the 4th pick of the NFL draft the Cleveland Browns select Johnny Manzel. And a day or so later it is reported the Johnny Football is VERY VERY public about ...
... Being openly gay.
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Let's get this clear: If you knew Nick Foles was gonna be that good (I did), you draft him #4 overall without a moment's hesitation. Ditto Russell Wilson (I thought he was too short, so it's a wash). Both teams had their presumed starter in place, the Eagles even more than the Seahawks.
Point: You don't draft a quarterback in the third round assuming he's going to play like a high 1st rounder. It's a happy accident, or value you couldn't pass up.
Let's get this clear: If you knew Nick Foles was gonna be that good (I did), you draft him #4 overall without a moment's hesitation. Ditto Russell Wilson (I thought he was too short, so it's a wash). Both teams had their presumed starter in place, the Eagles even more than the Seahawks.
Point: You don't draft a quarterback in the third round assuming he's going to play like a high 1st rounder. It's a happy accident, or value you couldn't pass up.
You didn't know. You guessed. You just happened to be correct.
Nobody knows, or else they'd be raking in a cool 10 million a year.
You know what's a valued attribute? Modesty. I've been right far more often than I've been wrong, but I don't find ways to interject that into posts unless forced.
Come on Shep. I like you. You're one of the good ones. You're better than that.
But I agree. You don't take a presumed starter in the third. You take a guy in the third because the value is great, regardless of who is already on the roster. Going into a draft aiming to draft your franchise guy in the third or later is a recipe for disaster.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Let's get this clear: If you knew Nick Foles was gonna be that good (I did), you draft him #4 overall without a moment's hesitation. Ditto Russell Wilson (I thought he was too short, so it's a wash). Both teams had their presumed starter in place, the Eagles even more than the Seahawks.
Point: You don't draft a quarterback in the third round assuming he's going to play like a high 1st rounder. It's a happy accident, or value you couldn't pass up.
Let's get this clear: If you knew Nick Foles was gonna be that good (I did), you draft him #4 overall without a moment's hesitation. Ditto Russell Wilson (I thought he was too short, so it's a wash). Both teams had their presumed starter in place, the Eagles even more than the Seahawks.
Point: You don't draft a quarterback in the third round assuming he's going to play like a high 1st rounder. It's a happy accident, or value you couldn't pass up.
That is precisely why the Browns drafted Colt McCoy, they thought he was a value they couldn't pass up in the third round. It was worth a shot. Predictably it didn't work out for the Browns.
Actually, what I would like to see Sunday is for Colin Kaepernick to get hurt early in the game......and then see the 49ers have to be guided in the NFC conference championship game by Colt McCoy.
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You morons crack me up. Multiple people have been on record saying Manziel was a professional and won't scare anyone away during the interviews. The guy is a young man who partied more than she should have. All the while on game day he was carving up defenses and setting records against the best conference in America. But all means, let's draft a guard and take another slow thinking high character guy like McCoy who sucks. You can quote me that everyone who doesn't draft this kid will be pissed. I could care the fuck less how he acts, if he is throwing TD passes he can snort coke for all I care.
He has more of a reputation than just partying a little to much in college. He has had issues with alcohol since at least being a junior in high school. His own father has expressed concerns that the limelight of the NFL and the money that comes with it will destroy his son and let his habits run wild. He has already had to see alcohol counselors more than once. If you add the potential off field issues to his lack of physical attributes it equals hands off. I have to think many teams wouldn't touch him. He is a time bomb and would be a foolish draft pick.
Given his history and the fact there are several other talented alternatives would you hire this guy you run your own company?
He has more of a reputation than just partying a little to much in college. He has had issues with alcohol since at least being a junior in high school. His own father has expressed concerns that the limelight of the NFL and the money that comes with it will destroy his son and let his habits run wild. He has already had to see alcohol counselors more than once. If you add the potential off field issues to his lack of physical attributes it equals hands off. I have to think many teams wouldn't touch him. He is a time bomb and would be a foolish draft pick.
Given his history and the fact there are several other talented alternatives would you hire this guy you run your own company?
As I said before (maybe not on this thread) Trent Dilfer and Kirk Herbstreit made it clear that they found this guy nothing but classy/professional throughout this season. I know these guys are ESPN brass, but more people are coming out and saying the kid has turned it around. Josh Gordon had a serious drug problem and he's looking pretty good for us too. I hear what you're saying, but I think there's a huge difference between college and the NFL. Manziel will still have hype, but nothing like what he's gotten in college. The NFL has a way of humbling most players that go through the ranks. As for the (lack) of physical attributes, I assume you're talking about him being short? Because other than that I haven't heard anyone say he doesn't have physical tools to play the position.
Mik, as to your Tebow comment I would just say the scouting reports on them are a lot different. Everyone knew Tebow had god awful throwing mechanics and whoever drafted him would have to work to change it. With Manziel people have little to no worries about that. I just want a QB who can make plays. I don't care if that's Manziel, Bortles, Hoyer or anyone else.
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Why anyone is even considering wanting the Browns to draft anyone but a QB in the top 5 is beyond me... Johnny Football is worth the risk if he can become our franchise QB... Until we solve the QB issue nothing else really matters... It is fun to look at depth charts of our front 7 and red zone mismatches of sammy watkins josh gordon and jordon cameron...but this is all mute if we do not have a championship level quarterback.
Lets take a look at this years First Team All Pro Team
QB - Peyton Manning***
RB - LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles
FB- Mike Tolbert
TE- Jimmy Graham
WR- Calvin Johnson, Josh Gordon
T- Joe Thomas, Jason Peters
G- Louis Vasquez*, Evan Mathis
C- Ryan Kalil
DE- JJ Watt, Robert Quinn
DT- Gerald Mccoy, Ndamukong Suh
OLB- Robert Mathis, Lavonte David
ILB- Luke Kuechly, NaVorro Bowman*
CB- Richard Sherman*, Patrick Peterson
S Earl Thomas*, Eric Berry
PK - Justin Tucker
P- Johnny Hekker
KR- Cordarrelle Patterson
Out of the 27 players recognized only Peyton Manning has a super bowl ring...
and the only other offensive player still in the playoffs is a guard who protects...Peyton Manning.
On defense you have players who will represent the NFC in the superbowl,but the point is this...
Since 1999 the Browns have had the opportunity to draft in the Top 10 11 times , only once have the Browns drafted a QB in that time...Tim Couch (who is arguably THE BEST QB the Browns have had to date) The other 10 have been picks spent on addressing "other needs"
Case closed,
GET A CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QUARTERBACK
That's a great argument, good stuff.
But Robert Mathis has that same SB ring.
Zombo
Zombo said:
That's a great argument, good stuff.
But Robert Mathis has that same SB ring.
Zombo
Ahhh good call Zombo!
After re reading my post I do not want to come off as someone who thinks the issues surrounding the struggles of the Browns back to glory is so black and white...it is no easy task.
There will be hits and misses all over the draft (and in free agency, and trades for that matter) and a top 5 QB pick guarantees nothing, but I believe it puts you in a better position to find your guy than trying to hit on value in the later rounds or even later in the 1st round.
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He has more of a reputation than just partying a little to much in college. He has had issues with alcohol since at least being a junior in high school. His own father has expressed concerns that the limelight of the NFL and the money that comes with it will destroy his son and let his habits run wild. He has already had to see alcohol counselors more than once. If you add the potential off field issues to his lack of physical attributes it equals hands off. I have to think many teams wouldn't touch him. He is a time bomb and would be a foolish draft pick.
Given his history and the fact there are several other talented alternatives would you hire this guy you run your own company?
As I said before (maybe not on this thread) Trent Dilfer and Kirk Herbstreit made it clear that they found this guy nothing but classy/professional throughout this season. I know these guys are ESPN brass, but more people are coming out and saying the kid has turned it around. Josh Gordon had a serious drug problem and he's looking pretty good for us too. I hear what you're saying, but I think there's a huge difference between college and the NFL. Manziel will still have hype, but nothing like what he's gotten in college. The NFL has a way of humbling most players that go through the ranks. As for the (lack) of physical attributes, I assume you're talking about him being short? Because other than that I haven't heard anyone say he doesn't have physical tools to play the position.
Mik, as to your Tebow comment I would just say the scouting reports on them are a lot different. Everyone knew Tebow had god awful throwing mechanics and whoever drafted him would have to work to change it. With Manziel people have little to no worries about that. I just want a QB who can make plays. I don't care if that's Manziel, Bortles, Hoyer or anyone else.
As I said before (maybe not on this thread) Trent Dilfer and Kirk Herbstreit made it clear that they found this guy nothing but classy/professional throughout this season. I know these guys are ESPN brass, but more people are coming out and saying the kid has turned it around. Josh Gordon had a serious drug problem and he's looking pretty good for us too. I hear what you're saying, but I think there's a huge difference between college and the NFL. Manziel will still have hype, but nothing like what he's gotten in college. The NFL has a way of humbling most players that go through the ranks. As for the (lack) of physical attributes, I assume you're talking about him being short? Because other than that I haven't heard anyone say he doesn't have physical tools to play the position.
Mik, as to your Tebow comment I would just say the scouting reports on them are a lot different. Everyone knew Tebow had god awful throwing mechanics and whoever drafted him would have to work to change it. With Manziel people have little to no worries about that. I just want a QB who can make plays. I don't care if that's Manziel, Bortles, Hoyer or anyone else.
and preferably not get tackled by flags....
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Why anyone is even considering wanting the Browns to draft anyone but a QB in the top 5 is beyond me... Johnny Football is worth the risk if he can become our franchise QB... Until we solve the QB issue nothing else really matters... It is fun to look at depth charts of our front 7 and red zone mismatches of sammy watkins josh gordon and jordon cameron...but this is all mute if we do not have a championship level quarterback.
Lets take a look at this years First Team All Pro Team
QB - Peyton Manning***
RB - LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles
FB- Mike Tolbert
TE- Jimmy Graham
WR- Calvin Johnson, Josh Gordon
T- Joe Thomas, Jason Peters
G- Louis Vasquez*, Evan Mathis
C- Ryan Kalil
DE- JJ Watt, Robert Quinn
DT- Gerald Mccoy, Ndamukong Suh
OLB- Robert Mathis, Lavonte David
ILB- Luke Kuechly, NaVorro Bowman*
CB- Richard Sherman*, Patrick Peterson
S Earl Thomas*, Eric Berry
PK - Justin Tucker
P- Johnny Hekker
KR- Cordarrelle Patterson
Out of the 27 players recognized only Peyton Manning has a super bowl ring...
and the only other offensive player still in the playoffs is a guard who protects...Peyton Manning.
On defense you have players who will represent the NFC in the superbowl,but the point is this...
Since 1999 the Browns have had the opportunity to draft in the Top 10 11 times , only once have the Browns drafted a QB in that time...Tim Couch (who is arguably THE BEST QB the Browns have had to date) The other 10 have been picks spent on addressing "other needs"
Case closed,
GET A CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QUARTERBACK
We have a good QB on the roster in Hoyer. In at least some peoples opinions ( mine included for what its worth) Manziel and others are not elite QBs worthy of a top 5 pick. Add to that the fact a QB doesn't have to be top 10 to be successful (Wilson, Foles, Capernick). I don't want a QB in this draft in the top 5 picks.
We have a good QB on the roster in Hoyer. In at least some peoples opinions ( mine included for what its worth) Manziel and others are not elite QBs worthy of a top 5 pick. Add to that the fact a QB doesn't have to be top 10 to be successful (Wilson, Foles, Capernick). I don't want a QB in this draft in the top 5 picks.
I like Hoyer, quick release, smart, rallies the players, but I do not think we know exactly what we have in him yet.. I do not think anyone can say he is a franshise QB as much as I think you can't say he isn't one. My point is that until you know...you keep increasing your odds of finding one by bringing in QBs with that potential (Hoyer would be included in that)
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Let's get this clear: If you knew Nick Foles was gonna be that good (I did), you draft him #4 overall without a moment's hesitation. Ditto Russell Wilson (I thought he was too short, so it's a wash). Both teams had their presumed starter in place, the Eagles even more than the Seahawks.
Point: You don't draft a quarterback in the third round assuming he's going to play like a high 1st rounder. It's a happy accident, or value you couldn't pass up.
You didn't know. You guessed. You just happened to be correct.
Nobody knows, or else they'd be raking in a cool 10 million a year.
You know what's a valued attribute? Modesty. I've been right far more often than I've been wrong, but I don't find ways to interject that into posts unless forced.
Come on Shep. I like you. You're one of the good ones. You're better than that.
But I agree. You don't take a presumed starter in the third. You take a guy in the third because the value is great, regardless of who is already on the roster. Going into a draft aiming to draft your franchise guy in the third or later is a recipe for disaster.
You didn't know. You guessed. You just happened to be correct.
Nobody knows, or else they'd be raking in a cool 10 million a year.
You know what's a valued attribute? Modesty. I've been right far more often than I've been wrong, but I don't find ways to interject that into posts unless forced.
Come on Shep. I like you. You're one of the good ones. You're better than that.
But I agree. You don't take a presumed starter in the third. You take a guy in the third because the value is great, regardless of who is already on the roster. Going into a draft aiming to draft your franchise guy in the third or later is a recipe for disaster.
You are both right. I don't think you take a presumed starter in the 3rd round. I agree you take a value pick as a project and hope for the best. That is exactly what I would advocate in this draft based on my assessment (right or wrong) that none of the projected top 3 QBs are elite talents.
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... Being openly gay.
Would be a media hype like non-other. Would make sense that would be the spark theBrowns ralley around.
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Let's get this clear: If you knew Nick Foles was gonna be that good (I did), you draft him #4 overall without a moment's hesitation. Ditto Russell Wilson (I thought he was too short, so it's a wash). Both teams had their presumed starter in place, the Eagles even more than the Seahawks.
Point: You don't draft a quarterback in the third round assuming he's going to play like a high 1st rounder. It's a happy accident, or value you couldn't pass up.
That is precisely why the Browns drafted Colt McCoy, they thought he was a value they couldn't pass up in the third round. It was worth a shot. Predictably it didn't work out for the Browns.
Actually, what I would like to see Sunday is for Colin Kaepernick to get hurt early in the game......and then see the 49ers have to be guided in the NFC conference championship game by Colt McCoy.
That is precisely why the Browns drafted Colt McCoy, they thought he was a value they couldn't pass up in the third round. It was worth a shot. Predictably it didn't work out for the Browns.
Actually, what I would like to see Sunday is for Colin Kaepernick to get hurt early in the game......and then see the 49ers have to be guided in the NFC conference championship game by Colt McCoy.
Colt McCoy 15 of 21 for 245 yrds and a Td. Including going 4-4 on the game winning drive capping it off with a 15 yrd TD scamper on 4th and goal where he hurrdles Earl Thomas at the goalline helicoptering with an outstretched arm gets the ball just inside the pileon.
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That is precisely why the Browns drafted Colt McCoy, they thought he was a value they couldn't pass up in the third round. It was worth a shot. Predictably it didn't work out for the Browns.
Actually, what I would like to see Sunday is for Colin Kaepernick to get hurt early in the game......and then see the 49ers have to be guided in the NFC conference championship game by Colt McCoy.
Colt McCoy 15 of 21 for 245 yrds and a Td. Including going 4-4 on the game winning drive capping it off with a 15 yrd TD scamper on 4th and goal where he hurrdles Earl Thomas at the goalline helicoptering with an outstretched arm gets the ball just inside the pileon.
Colt McCoy 15 of 21 for 245 yrds and a Td. Including going 4-4 on the game winning drive capping it off with a 15 yrd TD scamper on 4th and goal where he hurrdles Earl Thomas at the goalline helicoptering with an outstretched arm gets the ball just inside the pileon.
Somehow I don't think I will hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
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