"It's a passing league"
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As you all know, I favor a balanced offense that isn't completely based on this idea that "A QB savior shall come and pass us into the promised land!" Also, I don't necessarily think that Manziel is a "sure thing" in the same way that someone like a Luck was (Settle down, settle down,... keep reading...).
That being said, I can't ignore the kid's success on the field. Do I think he's made great decisions off the field? No. Will that be trouble? Maybe. I really think it could go either way. But, he is an athletic kid who seems to pass well and run well, and he performed well against some good college defenses. Sometimes that does end up meaning success in the pros, sometimes it doesn't. But, as much doubt as may exist in my mind about Manziel, I've got just as much doubt about almost any other player in the draft this year.
It all comes down to this: The Browns need to do something about a QB. Hoyer probably isn't the perfect answer immediately, and certainly isn't the long-term answer. Manziel is a young guy (isn't he the same age as Weeden's grandkids?) and has been a standout for two years. The chance that he'll become a good starting NFL QB is certainly worth the #4 pick to the Browns. It's a risk, but a relatively low one. An early pick for a guy who has a good chance to be a viable QB is a pretty standard tradeoff, and one that I think the Browns should be comfortable with. I'm not QB crazy and I don't think he's a 100% sure thing, but I'm plenty comfortable with the Browns taking Manziel at #4.
Now, there's been some crazy talk about moving up to get him. That I am not onboard with. The chance to get Manziel is not, in my mind, worth adding in another early round pick. That's a whole additional player who could contribute to the team in another area. I just cannot stand by the idea that the likelihood that Manziel will be good is worth two of the top 30 or top 50-60 players in the college draft this year. Maybe if the Browns ONLY needed a QB - if the team was complete except for this one gaping hole. But the Browns could certainly use some early round help in some other areas as well.
In short, I say take Manziel at #4 and do it with confidence and excitement, if you think he can be good. Just don't trade anything significant to move up to get him.
As you all know, I favor a balanced offense that isn't completely based on this idea that "A QB savior shall come and pass us into the promised land!" Also, I don't necessarily think that Manziel is a "sure thing" in the same way that someone like a Luck was (Settle down, settle down,... keep reading...).
That being said, I can't ignore the kid's success on the field. Do I think he's made great decisions off the field? No. Will that be trouble? Maybe. I really think it could go either way. But, he is an athletic kid who seems to pass well and run well, and he performed well against some good college defenses. Sometimes that does end up meaning success in the pros, sometimes it doesn't. But, as much doubt as may exist in my mind about Manziel, I've got just as much doubt about almost any other player in the draft this year.
It all comes down to this: The Browns need to do something about a QB. Hoyer probably isn't the perfect answer immediately, and certainly isn't the long-term answer. Manziel is a young guy (isn't he the same age as Weeden's grandkids?) and has been a standout for two years. The chance that he'll become a good starting NFL QB is certainly worth the #4 pick to the Browns. It's a risk, but a relatively low one. An early pick for a guy who has a good chance to be a viable QB is a pretty standard tradeoff, and one that I think the Browns should be comfortable with. I'm not QB crazy and I don't think he's a 100% sure thing, but I'm plenty comfortable with the Browns taking Manziel at #4.
Now, there's been some crazy talk about moving up to get him. That I am not onboard with. The chance to get Manziel is not, in my mind, worth adding in another early round pick. That's a whole additional player who could contribute to the team in another area. I just cannot stand by the idea that the likelihood that Manziel will be good is worth two of the top 30 or top 50-60 players in the college draft this year. Maybe if the Browns ONLY needed a QB - if the team was complete except for this one gaping hole. But the Browns could certainly use some early round help in some other areas as well.
In short, I say take Manziel at #4 and do it with confidence and excitement, if you think he can be good. Just don't trade anything significant to move up to get him.
I agree with most of what you said for sure. I do think though you jump to conclusions and sell Hoyer short. Admittedly we got a small sample size of his performance BUT if he can perform at that level consistently he would be the number 1 QB on many teams.
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As you all know, I favor a balanced offense that isn't completely based on this idea that "A QB savior shall come and pass us into the promised land!" Also, I don't necessarily think that Manziel is a "sure thing" in the same way that someone like a Luck was (Settle down, settle down,... keep reading...).
That being said, I can't ignore the kid's success on the field. Do I think he's made great decisions off the field? No. Will that be trouble? Maybe. I really think it could go either way. But, he is an athletic kid who seems to pass well and run well, and he performed well against some good college defenses. Sometimes that does end up meaning success in the pros, sometimes it doesn't. But, as much doubt as may exist in my mind about Manziel, I've got just as much doubt about almost any other player in the draft this year.
It all comes down to this: The Browns need to do something about a QB. Hoyer probably isn't the perfect answer immediately, and certainly isn't the long-term answer. Manziel is a young guy (isn't he the same age as Weeden's grandkids?) and has been a standout for two years. The chance that he'll become a good starting NFL QB is certainly worth the #4 pick to the Browns. It's a risk, but a relatively low one. An early pick for a guy who has a good chance to be a viable QB is a pretty standard tradeoff, and one that I think the Browns should be comfortable with. I'm not QB crazy and I don't think he's a 100% sure thing, but I'm plenty comfortable with the Browns taking Manziel at #4.
Now, there's been some crazy talk about moving up to get him. That I am not onboard with. The chance to get Manziel is not, in my mind, worth adding in another early round pick. That's a whole additional player who could contribute to the team in another area. I just cannot stand by the idea that the likelihood that Manziel will be good is worth two of the top 30 or top 50-60 players in the college draft this year. Maybe if the Browns ONLY needed a QB - if the team was complete except for this one gaping hole. But the Browns could certainly use some early round help in some other areas as well.
In short, I say take Manziel at #4 and do it with confidence and excitement, if you think he can be good. Just don't trade anything significant to move up to get him.
I agree with most of what you said for sure. I do think though you jump to conclusions and sell Hoyer short. Admittedly we got a small sample size of his performance BUT if he can perform at that level consistently he would be the number 1 QB on many teams.
I agree with most of what you said for sure. I do think though you jump to conclusions and sell Hoyer short. Admittedly we got a small sample size of his performance BUT if he can perform at that level consistently he would be the number 1 QB on many teams.
Hoyer performed admirably, but I think we're glamorizing it a bit. He played like garbage in Arizona when given the shot, then came here and played better than what we had. He may have the potential, but I wouldn't want to put all my chips on him and him alone.
If he can perform like he did against Cincinatti on a consistent basis then, yes, he can be an NFL starter. But let's not ride into the season on an if without at least some sort of other plan. I'd rather have two ifs than one if and nothing else.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You think so? My opinion is that is a bit of wishful thinking/loving the guy because he's on your team. Hoyer would not be the #1 QB on many teams, because he was floating around out there and no one showed much interest in him. In a few games last year, he didn't suddenly become a great QB. Did he play well a few games? Sure. Can he fill in and do okay? Maybe. And maybe a guy gets overlooked by one team or a few teams or some teams. However, chances are pretty slim that, with all the eyes in the league constantly looking, there's a guy out there who would be the #1 QB on many teams, but just no one notices.
I don't dislike Hoyer, but I think suggesting "he's the guy" for any length of time other than filling in is wishful thinking.
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I agree with most of what you said for sure. I do think though you jump to conclusions and sell Hoyer short. Admittedly we got a small sample size of his performance BUT if he can perform at that level consistently he would be the number 1 QB on many teams.
Hoyer performed admirably, but I think we're glamorizing it a bit. He played like garbage in Arizona when given the shot, then came here and played better than what we had. He may have the potential, but I wouldn't want to put all my chips on him and him alone.
If he can perform like he did against Cincinatti on a consistent basis then, yes, he can be an NFL starter. But let's not ride into the season on an if without at least some sort of other plan. I'd rather have two ifs than one if and nothing else.
Hoyer performed admirably, but I think we're glamorizing it a bit. He played like garbage in Arizona when given the shot, then came here and played better than what we had. He may have the potential, but I wouldn't want to put all my chips on him and him alone.
If he can perform like he did against Cincinatti on a consistent basis then, yes, he can be an NFL starter. But let's not ride into the season on an if without at least some sort of other plan. I'd rather have two ifs than one if and nothing else.
Agree 100% I just believe he has earned the opportunity for a fair competition for the starting job. I would love to see us take a QB and then not force the start due to his draft rank. Make it a legitimate competition and start the winner. If the loser is the rookie let him sit and learn. Although it likely doesn't make sense I would be a fan of taking someone like Bortles in the first round and Garopollo or Mettenberger in the 3rd if possible. Let the competition and learning begin.
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Hoyer plays smart, and has been around. Pettine is impressed with him.
With Hoyer, no sense in sending any rookie out there from the beginning in regular season.
Although, if Hoyer had to retire from his injury (not happening)...
I'd start the rookie straight away before I'd let weedone or campbell see the field.
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- NBCSports.com - 1 day agoNew Browns coach Mike Pettine knows a little about quarterback Brian Hoyer, from game-planning for him last season as the Bills defensive ...
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I agree, jcam. I think there should always be competition for all starting jobs. The player who offers the best possibility for winning should be the starter in every position, including QB.
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Was Hoyer's success a product of Turners offense and can he excel in a new offensive system of which we have no idea what it will be yet?
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You're seriously over-rating Manziel. And I'll stand my ground- just like I did telling Shep he was full of shit pimping Quinn. There are scouts that do have him as a top second rounder. The reports having him as the highest bust\reward potential are legion- and I'm taking bust\injury off field asshole risk, thank you very much.
Thank God Haslam pretty much called the "Manziel at any cost" rumor for what it is- a rumor. I wouldn't even have put it past Weasel Banner to have started it, just to see how Browns fans would react. This fan will puke.
I'm not. You're seriously putting too much emphasis on the fact that you don't like that he's not 6'5, 230 and a pocket passer. He faced top defenses week in and week out and put up spectacular numbers.
I'm not a Manziel fan, but I can understand the hype. It's not like Carr, who put up gaudy numbers against weak talent every week. He played quality SEC opponents. He threw for 5 touchdowns against the top ranked defense in the country and then another 4 touchdowns against a 19th ranked Vandy defense. He plays tough teams and puts up great numbers.
There are scouts that have him in the second round, you're right. There are also many more scouts, most of which with a much better reputation, that have Manziel exactly where he'll be drafted- in the top half of the first round.
The fact that you don't like his "scrambling style" is duly noted, but ultimately means nothing. I can understand the fear of injury, but anything can happen. A CB tore his ACL in the Senior Bowl in a non contact injury. In 1989, National League MVP Kevin Mitchell pulled a muscle while puking after getting food poisoning and missed time. Jaret Holmes burned himself with fondue. Lionel Letizi pulled a back muscle reaching for a Scrabble tile.
Point is, shit can happen anywhere, anytime, especially in the NFL. The fear of injury is justified but not a reason to stand pat. As my dad always told me, you'll never hit a homerun if you're too scared to take the bat off your shoulders.
If we get an OC that favors a fast-paced, spread option, quick fire offense and likes to move the pocket, then Manziel would be great. If we get an OC that wants to go I-Form, pound the rock, play action pass, Bortles would be fantastic. If we get an OC that wants us to throw screens 75% of the time, Carr would be the pick. As long as our QB is put in the best scheme for him to win, I'm happy. But hating on Manziel over trivial matters is just dumb.
The fact that you don't like his "scrambling style" is duly noted, but ultimately means nothing. I can understand the fear of injury, but anything can happen. A CB tore his ACL in the Senior Bowl in a non contact injury. In 1989, National League MVP Kevin Mitchell pulled a muscle while puking after getting food poisoning and missed time. Jaret Holmes burned himself with fondue. Lionel Letizi pulled a back muscle reaching for a Scrabble tile.
Lets not forget my personal favorite athlete injury: NHL winger Dustin Penner injuring his back while eating pancakes.
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i coughed in the shower and was on my back for 6 months. so?
i ain't making 5 mil a year.
meanwhile jamarcuss and holmgren made 10 mil. for eating donuts.
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Hoyer performed admirably, but I think we're glamorizing it a bit. He played like garbage in Arizona when given the shot, then came here and played better than what we had. He may have the potential, but I wouldn't want to put all my chips on him and him alone.
If he can perform like he did against Cincinatti on a consistent basis then, yes, he can be an NFL starter. But let's not ride into the season on an if without at least some sort of other plan. I'd rather have two ifs than one if and nothing else.
Agree 100% I just believe he has earned the opportunity for a fair competition for the starting job. I would love to see us take a QB and then not force the start due to his draft rank. Make it a legitimate competition and start the winner. If the loser is the rookie let him sit and learn. Although it likely doesn't make sense I would be a fan of taking someone like Bortles in the first round and Garopollo or Mettenberger in the 3rd if possible. Let the competition and learning begin.
I just believe he has earned the opportunity for a fair competition for the starting job. I would love to see us take a QB and then not force the start due to his draft rank. Make it a legitimate competition and start the winner.
hey j, we all know that's not the way it works in the NFL. plenty of QBs were promised a 'fair' competition int the off season. just to have the FOs #1 pick to start because it's 'their' guy.
in the AFCN the only QB i see starting in this physical division is bortles, and no one here can say he won't be a leinert or a shuler.
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I just believe he has earned the opportunity for a fair competition for the starting job. I would love to see us take a QB and then not force the start due to his draft rank. Make it a legitimate competition and start the winner.
hey j, we all know that's not the way it works in the NFL. plenty of QBs were promised a 'fair' competition int the off season. just to have the FOs #1 pick to start because it's 'their' guy.
in the AFCN the only QB i see starting in this physical division is bortles, and no one here can say he won't be a leinert or a shuler.
hey j, we all know that's not the way it works in the NFL. plenty of QBs were promised a 'fair' competition int the off season. just to have the FOs #1 pick to start because it's 'their' guy.
in the AFCN the only QB i see starting in this physical division is bortles, and no one here can say he won't be a leinert or a shuler.
And no one here can say he won't be a Roethlisberger or Favre.
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hey j, we all know that's not the way it works in the NFL. plenty of QBs were promised a 'fair' competition int the off season. just to have the FOs #1 pick to start because it's 'their' guy.
in the AFCN the only QB i see starting in this physical division is bortles, and no one here can say he won't be a leinert or a shuler.
And no one here can say he won't be a Roethlisberger or Favre.
And no one here can say he won't be a Roethlisberger or Favre.
exactly.
roethlisberger is no dan marino but he sure as hell looks like godzilla shedding off the whole chinese army and air force.
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