Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
You do realize the guy got some Heisman votes?
No, I don't see him in the top ten. Maybe his high school coach and his dad voted for him.
A.J. McCarron got a ton of Heisman votes and I don't want him either.
If he doesn't have a gun, then he has to be near perfect with his precision.
Why are we talking about the fifth best QB prospect when we have the fourth pick?
Zombo
Zombo said:
No, I don't see him in the top ten. Maybe his high school coach and his dad voted for him.
A.J. McCarron got a ton of Heisman votes and I don't want him either.
If he doesn't have a gun, then he has to be near perfect with his precision.
Why are talking about the fifth best QB prospect when we have the fourth pick?
Zombo
Because they're Browns fans.
-
If we can't grab manziel we the 4th pick, we shouldn't take a qb in the first round. I mean if manziel is gone before the 4th, we can take an exceptional player in watkins or clowney. Then we go cornerback with the 26th (passing league).
Then here's the point. We have a high second round draft pick. I watched garoppolo in the east-west shrine game and in the senior bowl and i absolutly fell in love with him. He's smart, a good guy, very fast on his feet and on his decision making. He's accurate, has a great vision, he is use to north climat.
I understant the point that says : "we have to draft a qb high because it has never worked before with late rounds qb". But we have a really good qb in hoyer. He's only 29. Everybody in the league praise his game. I trust him. The coach loves him. Grab garoppolo and put him behind Brian for the year to make him learn the game.
I'm sur that we can have a great year with hoyer at qb. We shouldn't reach for a qb outside of johnny football in the first round.
Thoughts ?
If we can't grab manziel we the 4th pick, we shouldn't take a qb in the first round. I mean if manziel is gone before the 4th, we can take an exceptional player in watkins or clowney. Then we go cornerback with the 26th (passing league).
Then here's the point. We have a high second round draft pick. I watched garoppolo in the east-west shrine game and in the senior bowl and i absolutly fell in love with him. He's smart, a good guy, very fast on his feet and on his decision making. He's accurate, has a great vision, he is use to north climat.
I understant the point that says : "we have to draft a qb high because it has never worked before with late rounds qb". But we have a really good qb in hoyer. He's only 29. Everybody in the league praise his game. I trust him. The coach loves him. Grab garoppolo and put him behind Brian for the year to make him learn the game.
I'm sur that we can have a great year with hoyer at qb. We shouldn't reach for a qb outside of johnny football in the first round.
Thoughts ?
Is this to say that Garoppolo is your second rated QB behind Manziel? What if Bridgewater or Bortles is there at 4 do you propose the browns still wait until the second round to select Garoppolo?
-
You do realize the guy got some Heisman votes?
No, I don't see him in the top ten. Maybe his high school coach and his dad voted for him.
A.J. McCarron got a ton of Heisman votes and I don't want him either.
If he doesn't have a gun, then he has to be near perfect with his precision.
Why are we talking about the fifth best QB prospect when we have the fourth pick?
Zombo
Zombo said:
No, I don't see him in the top ten. Maybe his high school coach and his dad voted for him.
A.J. McCarron got a ton of Heisman votes and I don't want him either.
If he doesn't have a gun, then he has to be near perfect with his precision.
Why are we talking about the fifth best QB prospect when we have the fourth pick?
Zombo
Oooh, those rocket armed QBs We-Done and Andersuck sure got us somewhere. It's all about reading the defense, getting the ball out fast, and anticipating your receivers breaking open. Unless the guy is a total noodle arm (Ken Dorsey) I'll take accuracy over velocity every time. I've never heard "rocket arm" attributed to Peyton Manning.
Is this to say that Garoppolo is your second rated QB behind Manziel? What if Bridgewater or Bortles is there at 4 do you propose the browns still wait until the second round to select Garoppolo?
Um, hell no. LOL, though if Bridgewater and Bortles are both gone- the Johnny Football hatas club will take Garrapolo over JF, not @ #4 though. Personally, Manziel-Minnesota has a nice ring to it.
-
@hoorta said:
Oooh, those rocket armed QBs We-Done and Andersuck sure got us somewhere. It's all about reading the defense, getting the ball out fast, and anticipating your receivers breaking open. Unless the guy is a total noodle arm (Ken Dorsey) I'll take accuracy over velocity every time. I've never heard "rocket arm" attributed to Peyton Manning.
Manning had a very strong arm before his surgery.
You can be successful in the NFL without a rocket if you do all the things you mentioned and you have amazing accuracy, like Joe Montana or the Bronco Manning.
But why are we discussing accuracy versus velocity instead of discussing the prospects that have both?
Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles and Carr all have major league arms, right? And they've shown good accuracy. There's four guys better than Janine ... and we have the fourth pick. So, we're going to pass on a QB, grab a wr or de or something, and then settle for a prospect that is not as highly regarded? We're talking about Quarterback here ... get the best prospect and don't look back. If he doesn't work out, oh well, you tried ... maybe we'll get lucky and Hoyer or a 5th round pick will be the guy ... but if we don't try for the best, we're stupid.
Zombo
-
@hoorta said:
Oooh, those rocket armed QBs We-Done and Andersuck sure got us somewhere. It's all about reading the defense, getting the ball out fast, and anticipating your receivers breaking open. Unless the guy is a total noodle arm (Ken Dorsey) I'll take accuracy over velocity every time. I've never heard "rocket arm" attributed to Peyton Manning.
Manning had a very strong arm before his surgery.
You can be successful in the NFL without a rocket if you do all the things you mentioned and you have amazing accuracy, like Joe Montana or the Bronco Manning.
But why are we discussing accuracy versus velocity instead of discussing the prospects that have both?
Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles and Carr all have major league arms, right? And they've shown good accuracy. There's four guys better than Janine ... and we have the fourth pick. So, we're going to pass on a QB, grab a wr or de or something, and then settle for a prospect that is not as highly regarded? We're talking about Quarterback here ... get the best prospect and don't look back. If he doesn't work out, oh well, you tried ... maybe we'll get lucky and Hoyer or a 5th round pick will be the guy ... but if we don't try for the best, we're stupid.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Manning had a very strong arm before his surgery.
You can be successful in the NFL without a rocket if you do all the things you mentioned and you have amazing accuracy, like Joe Montana or the Bronco Manning.
But why are we discussing accuracy versus velocity instead of discussing the prospects that have both?
Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles and Carr all have major league arms, right? And they've shown good accuracy. There's four guys better than Janine ... and we have the fourth pick. So, we're going to pass on a QB, grab a wr or de or something, and then settle for a prospect that is not as highly regarded? We're talking about Quarterback here ... get the best prospect and don't look back. If he doesn't work out, oh well, you tried ... maybe we'll get lucky and Hoyer or a 5th round pick will be the guy ... but if we don't try for the best, we're stupid.
Zombo
Bridgewater seems like the one that meets all the criteria but the size scares me. I wish the combine would start so we can get his real size on paper. Now that Shanahan is onboard he may prefer Bridgewater. RG3 is not really that much heavier than Bridgewater.
-
Zombo said:
Manning had a very strong arm before his surgery.
You can be successful in the NFL without a rocket if you do all the things you mentioned and you have amazing accuracy, like Joe Montana or the Bronco Manning.
But why are we discussing accuracy versus velocity instead of discussing the prospects that have both?
Bridgewater, Manziel, Bortles and Carr all have major league arms, right? And they've shown good accuracy. There's four guys better than Janine ... and we have the fourth pick. So, we're going to pass on a QB, grab a wr or de or something, and then settle for a prospect that is not as highly regarded? We're talking about Quarterback here ... get the best prospect and don't look back. If he doesn't work out, oh well, you tried ... maybe we'll get lucky and Hoyer or a 5th round pick will be the guy ... but if we don't try for the best, we're stupid.
Zombo
Bridgewater seems like the one that meets all the criteria but the size scares me. I wish the combine would start so we can get his real size on paper. Now that Shanahan is onboard he may prefer Bridgewater. RG3 is not really that much heavier than Bridgewater.
Bridgewater seems like the one that meets all the criteria but the size scares me. I wish the combine would start so we can get his real size on paper. Now that Shanahan is onboard he may prefer Bridgewater. RG3 is not really that much heavier than Bridgewater.
Bridgewater is a little slight, but he may fill in some too. I like both Bridgewater and Manziel, and if I'm the Browns ... I'm coming away with one of them.
Ya, neither are big and Manziel likes to run around ... so lock Brian Hoyer into a nice contract at 3 or 4 million a year while Bridgewater/Manziel are on their rookie contract, both as a fallback and an injury replacement.
Zombo
-
I'll be ecstatic if the browns land Bridgewater. With Haslam talking about the thousands of hours going into qb research don't be surprised if the browns trade up to #1 overall to select Bridgewater IF that's who they target.
-
You do realize the guy got some Heisman votes?
No, I don't see him in the top ten. Maybe his high school coach and his dad voted for him.
A.J. McCarron got a ton of Heisman votes and I don't want him either.
If he doesn't have a gun, then he has to be near perfect with his precision.
Why are we talking about the fifth best QB prospect when we have the fourth pick?
Zombo
Zombo said:
No, I don't see him in the top ten. Maybe his high school coach and his dad voted for him.
A.J. McCarron got a ton of Heisman votes and I don't want him either.
If he doesn't have a gun, then he has to be near perfect with his precision.
Why are we talking about the fifth best QB prospect when we have the fourth pick?
Zombo
Because we are Browns fan I suppose is one answer lol. Another possibility is that some of us think the the "top four" prospects , or at least those of them who remain at pick 4 aren't worthy of being selected that high in the draft. Those of us that believe that could be wrong and could be right , no different that the teams who select them find out every year. Some are hits and some are misses. It would not bother me in the least to see us take Watkins at 4 and the best athlete on the board with our remaining first rounder and follow it with someone like Garropolo in the 2nd round. Dig who posted on here seems to think a lot of the Stanford guy to.
-
Bridgewater seems like the one that meets all the criteria but the size scares me. I wish the combine would start so we can get his real size on paper. Now that Shanahan is onboard he may prefer Bridgewater. RG3 is not really that much heavier than Bridgewater.
Bridgewater is a little slight, but he may fill in some too. I like both Bridgewater and Manziel, and if I'm the Browns ... I'm coming away with one of them.
Ya, neither are big and Manziel likes to run around ... so lock Brian Hoyer into a nice contract at 3 or 4 million a year while Bridgewater/Manziel are on their rookie contract, both as a fallback and an injury replacement.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Bridgewater is a little slight, but he may fill in some too. I like both Bridgewater and Manziel, and if I'm the Browns ... I'm coming away with one of them.
Ya, neither are big and Manziel likes to run around ... so lock Brian Hoyer into a nice contract at 3 or 4 million a year while Bridgewater/Manziel are on their rookie contract, both as a fallback and an injury replacement.
Zombo
What I like most about Bridgewater is he was successful running a pro style O. Not sure how often Manziel was under center vs shotgun.
-
Garapollos biggest knock isn't a weak arm, it's that he hasn't played top competition.
-
I haven't seen anything from Manziel to make me think his arm strength is much better.@mike-h said:
2014 Senior Bowl Tuesday...While Carr is the top quarterback on the South roster, Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo has been the next-most-impressive at the position and, in my opinion, is the second-best quarterback in Mobile. He doesn't have elite arm strength, but his velocity is good enough and it has been noticeably better than the arm strength of San Jose State QB David Fales, the other quarterback on the South team. Garoppolo started to build some momentum in St. Petersburg last week at the East-West Shrine Game and it's continuing here at the Senior Bowl. He projects as a solid second day draft choice and a future starter in a year or two in the NFL. - Dane Brugler, NFLDraftScout.com
Dane Brugler's analysis > yours.
No one said his arm strength was WEAK, just that it could be better.
His arm strength is more than adequate for an NFL QB. I'm not saying he's elite or anything, but his arm strength and velocity are good enough. I like his accuracy and touch, although I saw it waiver a bit under pressure.
Good developmental QB IMO. He's not a Dalton or anything.
-
@mike-h said:
Thanks, I feel better about it already. I can't believe I was so stupid, that, after watching several of his games, I noticed a weakness in his otherwise clean skill-set. Your impressive breakdown of his arm strength really opened my eyes.
If you look at competition when evaluating QBs, you can say the same thing about Teddy Twatwater. For the most part, he played cupcakes. Thank God actual draft analysts don't let that deter them they see real translatable skills in prospects.
You are ripping someone because they don't have the same opinion as an NFL scout? There are plenty of NFL analysts with differing opinions and even the best make plenty of mistakes. YOU aren't an analyst. Quit being a douche.
-
Well, Brugler still said he'll be a starter in a year or two right?@mike-h said:
I wrote scouting notes for Dan Shonka at Ourlads this year. Some of those will be in the scouting books teams have on their table during the draft. I'm no pro, but I know to value Brugler over bbdeward on theBrownsboard.com
Brugler doesn't make Garrapolo sound too bad at all.
His arm strength is far from the worst in the draft. Don't be a closed minded schmuck. This is a discussion board.
I'm not on any one of these QBs that hard, but nobody really has much bad to say about garappolo, including me. The "professionals" are interested in garappolo too.
-
this QB class is sooooo fucking over rated.
the fact of the matter is there are so many teams looking to land their franchise QB with this upcoming draft that it has every other one of the other teams looking at QBs make all these guys seem irresistible to all these franchises including the browns.
what, do you think rome was built in a day? do you think we need help with other positions? do you think the next class of QBs next year will be worse than this year's?
i would ask half you guys just to slow down a second or two and really think about what you are willing to do to get someone you are in love with (see PoG in your mirror).
we have a HUGE opportunity this coming draft to upgrade both sides of the ball. if we don't get these guys in the draft, do you think we can get them in FA considering no coach wanted to touch this job with a ten foot pole?
i wouldn't mind getting someone in a later round that might develop into something special sitting behind the starters we will have coming into training camp, and hey if the guy actually beats out hoyer or campbell in training camp, then start him.
i'd rather concentrate on getting getting 5-6 quality rookie starters that boost performance and stats both on D and O this year, see what hoyer can do with more talent around him, and if he's the guy fine. if not go all in in 2015 for QB.
i don't care if peyton manning plays behind our OL next year, we still ain't going anywhere until we fix all the other problems non-QB related.
-
I'd take a flyer on Jimmy @ 3 or 4.
WSS
-
@mike-h said:
This same logic has gotten the Browns 4 and 5 win seasons since 2007. I'm guilty of it, too, wanting to give Weeden and Quinn their "shot"... Giving Hoyer his shot doesn't mean you can't take a QB to compete with him/learn under him for a year.
With Hoyers small frame, I'm worried about him staying healthy at the NFL level. He has an injury history in the league.---see, this can work both ways.
Can still draft a QB and add 5-6 rookie starters, including playmakers at RB and WR to go with Gordon and Cameron.
What other holes are left? ILB, CB, OG. They have FA and SEVEN other picks to use or trade up to get those players.
Not every team has pro bowlers at every position. Peyton manning makes his injured line look good. The Broncos defense isn't exactly dominating anyone either.
If a team has a good QB, it masks a lot of things.
I don't care how they get a QB, at what draft slot, but it's insane to think they won't. It's even crazier to plan on Hoyer being a long-term franchise QB without having a backup plan.
It's written on the wall in their draft war room... The road to the super bowl.
"We will have a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QB"
I don't think my opinion or anything else is better than yours, I think my understanding of their philosophy and the game itself is, though.
It's no secret that we're taking a QB. People just want to give hoyer a shot.
Otherwise I agree with you, but I wouldnt go around saying "I'm not saying my opinion is better, but I really think it is because I understand the game better"
The odds of us finding a Peyton manning in this draft are very slim though, so I'm more in favor of us building a defensive Baltimore/Seattle/SF type of team that can win with a competent QB. I don't know who that guy is whether it be bortles, manziel, bridgewater, Carr, garappolo - but that's what we have to talk about until draft day. It's just not a good comparison to say "look at Peyton's broncos, their defense isn't that great nor is their o-line." I hope we find our Peyton manning, but shit at this point I'll take a foles, wilson, kaepernick, ben. Flacco.
-
I'd take a flyer on Jimmy @ 3 or 4.
WSS
-
Meaning round 3 or 4.......
WSS
Yeah he is definitely worth a late flyer. Develop behind the first rounder and Hoyer.
-
@mike-h said:
This same logic has gotten the Browns 4 and 5 win seasons since 2007. I'm guilty of it, too, wanting to give Weeden and Quinn their "shot"... Giving Hoyer his shot doesn't mean you can't take a QB to compete with him/learn under him for a year.
With Hoyers small frame, I'm worried about him staying healthy at the NFL level. He has an injury history in the league.---see, this can work both ways.
Can still draft a QB and add 5-6 rookie starters, including playmakers at RB and WR to go with Gordon and Cameron.
What other holes are left? ILB, CB, OG. They have FA and SEVEN other picks to use or trade up to get those players.
Not every team has pro bowlers at every position. Peyton manning makes his injured line look good. The Broncos defense isn't exactly dominating anyone either.
If a team has a good QB, it masks a lot of things.
I don't care how they get a QB, at what draft slot, but it's insane to think they won't. It's even crazier to plan on Hoyer being a long-term franchise QB without having a backup plan.
It's written on the wall in their draft war room... The road to the super bowl.
"We will have a CHAMPIONSHIP LEVEL QB"
I don't think my opinion or anything else is better than yours, I think my understanding of their philosophy and the game itself is, though.
The Pittsburgh model- draft your franchise qb last seemed to work out well. I'd daresay Kapernick and Wilson were among the last pieces of the puzzle in SF and Seattle. & you know it & I know if- if Winston and Mariotta were in this draft it would slide everyone else down two slots.
-
I could care less if we didnt draft a QB in this years draft or not...None of the prospects look like a sure fire hit in this draft...Id rather take Sammy Watkins and take a flyer on fales or garappolo and develope them as a potential starter/backup behind Hoyer. I wont be disappointed either way.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login