Hoyer trade rumor
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Whatever decision that leads to the Browns landing their number one choice at qb will be justified.
The "we have too many holes to fill" mantra is a hold over from years past. Landing a franchise qb will fix a lot of perceived weaknesses at other positions.
Get a guy like Bridgewater who is pro ready, can read defenses/go through progressions and get the ball out quickly and the O line will play much better. Extend drives on offense with good decision making and accurate passing and the defense will be more rested and excited to play.
Of course there are plenty of upgrades to make, but a franchise qb is the most efficient and effective option. I know some of you think that there are no franchise qbs in this class, but if Bridgewater/ Bortles don't prove the skeptics wrong I'll eat a clump of my own hair.
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We have too many needs to trade a later pick to move up at least anything in the top 3/4 rounds.
Say we trade Hoyer, #4, a 3rd to Houston for the #1 pick. Then we take manziel because it's no secret the browns have a love affair with him.
Then we have to take a second QB probably a Boyd type in round 4/5. Maybe a Garrapolo type in round 3.
I'm sure lots of fans like this scenario and I'd have no idea as to why.
1.) I'd rather have Hoyer than Boyd/Garappolo.
2.) I'd rather use the pick used on Boyd/Garrapolo (garappolo will go in round 3 , maybe 2) on another position of need.
3.) At this point, there is no clear best QB prospect. In a poll it would probably be split between Bortles/Carr/Manziel/Bridgewater. One of which will be there at #4
We'd be essentially throwing away 2 decent draft picks that could add nice depth or even starters.
If a QB emerges as a clear #1 by May, then I'd be all for it. But at this point, there isn't one.
We have too many needs to trade a later pick to move up at least anything in the top 3/4 rounds.
Say we trade Hoyer, #4, a 3rd to Houston for the #1 pick. Then we take manziel because it's no secret the browns have a love affair with him.
Then we have to take a second QB probably a Boyd type in round 4/5. Maybe a Garrapolo type in round 3.
I'm sure lots of fans like this scenario and I'd have no idea as to why.
1.) I'd rather have Hoyer than Boyd/Garappolo.
2.) I'd rather use the pick used on Boyd/Garrapolo (garappolo will go in round 3 , maybe 2) on another position of need.
3.) At this point, there is no clear best QB prospect. In a poll it would probably be split between Bortles/Carr/Manziel/Bridgewater. One of which will be there at #4
We'd be essentially throwing away 2 decent draft picks that could add nice depth or even starters.
If a QB emerges as a clear #1 by May, then I'd be all for it. But at this point, there isn't one.
I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.
Carr is a top 4 QB prospect solely purely because of numbers. He's four of six quarterbacks that will get drafted before round 5. That, in no way, puts him in the category of being considered as the best QB prospect.
Shit, you could include Fales in the conversation just as quickly as you could Carr.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Sounds way too far fetched that we have a qb someone wants............
but if on a chance our FO can bamboozle yet another NFL team into a bonus trade for us, then hell yes.
fantasyland would have us with the #1 and #4 pick? the key would be retaining the 4 pick.
real world, you hope they think Hoyer is Brady. But if it would help get us the QB they have targeted???? sure,
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Maybe Browns are thinking of packaging him up as part of a deal for the Texans 1st round draft pick?
Maybe Browns are thinking of packaging him up as part of a deal for the Texans 1st round draft pick?
If there is anything to this, I believe this would be the route we need to take. We'd keep our second 1st round pick.
We might be able to do it for that.....if not, toss in our best of the 3rd rounders.
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Nope. I think that's a Madden trade
I can't picture the Texans moving the #1 for him. But anything could happen.
They wouldn't be moving the #1 for him, they would be moving the #1 for him plus.
The Trade Value chart says that the #1 overall pick is worth 3000 pts.
#4 overall is worth 1800.
So, we trade #4.....that is 1800. The DATs would want another 1200 in value. What value does Hoyer bring to chop from that 1200 pt. deficit? Even the #26 pick only chops 700.
Hell, they would probably want Hoyer, #4, #26 and then some.
I wouldn't do it.....but I don't trust Lombardi not to be so stupid.
They wouldn't be moving the #1 for him, they would be moving the #1 for him plus.
The Trade Value chart says that the #1 overall pick is worth 3000 pts.
#4 overall is worth 1800.
So, we trade #4.....that is 1800. The DATs would want another 1200 in value. What value does Hoyer bring to chop from that 1200 pt. deficit? Even the #26 pick only chops 700.
Hell, they would probably want Hoyer, #4, #26 and then some.
I wouldn't do it.....but I don't trust Lombardi not to be so stupid.
I don't know man. If they see him as their starter, he could chop a lot more than that. As I said a post ago, I think we could start talking about swapping picks, toss in Hoyer and the best of the 3rd rounders we hold. Even if we had to make it our 2nd rounder rather than the 3rd, and maybe get another 4th/5th rounder out of them....I think it could be a deal.
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Yeah!!! Hoyer two firsts and a third and we are shitting in tall cotton!
-----,hey wait a minute... Wasn't he just a back up here when we had another first round quarterback starting? I forget exactly who that was but I could swear that something happened to that plan...
What could that have been, damn, it seems like it was just recently...
WSS
Weren't you the guy that argued that Campbell wasnt a backup and that Weeden coulda made the Super Bowl with Seattle's defense?
But now Hoyer is so indispensable that we can't get rid of him even if we are bringing in the #1 overall pick in the draft at Qb and Campbell and Weeden are still under contract?
Zombo
Zombo said:
Weren't you the guy that argued that Campbell wasnt a backup and that Weeden coulda made the Super Bowl with Seattle's defense?
But now Hoyer is so indispensable that we can't get rid of him even if we are bringing in the #1 overall pick in the draft at Qb and Campbell and Weeden are still under contract?
Zombo
No problem bud. Shitcan them all.
But...
giving up half your pics and you're only quality quarterbacks for Johnny football means that you will not have Seattle's defense and that's a fact.
See that was kind of the key having the best defense in the league. The defense that can shut down Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, not the defense that makes Kirk Cousins look like a young Joe Namath.
I think if you take blue chip players with your high pics and roll the dice on a quarterback in two or three he will be fine.
I picked the name Brandon Weeden for my Super Bowl trip scenario because most of you guys hate him. I figure Brian Hoyer or Jason Campbell would have worked a lot better with a great defense. Maybe not even looked much better but remember how many games we lost in the second half because the defense fell on her ass?
WSS
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Zombo said:
Weren't you the guy that argued that Campbell wasnt a backup and that Weeden coulda made the Super Bowl with Seattle's defense?
But now Hoyer is so indispensable that we can't get rid of him even if we are bringing in the #1 overall pick in the draft at Qb and Campbell and Weeden are still under contract?
Zombo
No problem bud. Shitcan them all.
But...
giving up half your pics and you're only quality quarterbacks for Johnny football means that you will not have Seattle's defense and that's a fact.
See that was kind of the key having the best defense in the league. The defense that can shut down Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, not the defense that makes Kirk Cousins look like a young Joe Namath.
I think if you take blue chip players with your high pics and roll the dice on a quarterback in two or three he will be fine.
I picked the name Brandon Weeden for my Super Bowl trip scenario because most of you guys hate him. I figure Brian Hoyer or Jason Campbell would have worked a lot better with a great defense. Maybe not even looked much better but remember how many games we lost in the second half because the defense fell on her ass?
WSS
No problem bud. Shitcan them all.
But...
giving up half your pics and you're only quality quarterbacks for Johnny football means that you will not have Seattle's defense and that's a fact.
See that was kind of the key having the best defense in the league. The defense that can shut down Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, not the defense that makes Kirk Cousins look like a young Joe Namath.
I think if you take blue chip players with your high pics and roll the dice on a quarterback in two or three he will be fine.
I picked the name Brandon Weeden for my Super Bowl trip scenario because most of you guys hate him. I figure Brian Hoyer or Jason Campbell would have worked a lot better with a great defense. Maybe not even looked much better but remember how many games we lost in the second half because the defense fell on her ass?
WSS
Why wouldn't we have Seattle's defense? Because we're not drafting them high enough?
We have a higher ADP of our defensive players than they do. Our players were drafted higher than theirs.
Pete Carroll is a better defensive mind than Ray Horton. Ray Horton is not a good defensive coordinator, as I've been saying for a while. The proof is in the pudding. He had a more talented team than Seattle, based on average draft position, but didn't know how to use them.
Either that or Seattle's scouting department is just ridiculously better than 31 other teams. Either way, taking a quarterback at #4 doesn't change either of those facts.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
We have too many needs to trade a later pick to move up at least anything in the top 3/4 rounds.
Say we trade Hoyer, #4, a 3rd to Houston for the #1 pick. Then we take manziel because it's no secret the browns have a love affair with him.
Then we have to take a second QB probably a Boyd type in round 4/5. Maybe a Garrapolo type in round 3.
I'm sure lots of fans like this scenario and I'd have no idea as to why.
1.) I'd rather have Hoyer than Boyd/Garappolo.
2.) I'd rather use the pick used on Boyd/Garrapolo (garappolo will go in round 3 , maybe 2) on another position of need.
3.) At this point, there is no clear best QB prospect. In a poll it would probably be split between Bortles/Carr/Manziel/Bridgewater. One of which will be there at #4
We'd be essentially throwing away 2 decent draft picks that could add nice depth or even starters.
If a QB emerges as a clear #1 by May, then I'd be all for it. But at this point, there isn't one.
I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.
Carr is a top 4 QB prospect solely purely because of numbers. He's four of six quarterbacks that will get drafted before round 5. That, in no way, puts him in the category of being considered as the best QB prospect.
Shit, you could include Fales in the conversation just as quickly as you could Carr.
I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.
Carr is a top 4 QB prospect solely purely because of numbers. He's four of six quarterbacks that will get drafted before round 5. That, in no way, puts him in the category of being considered as the best QB prospect.
Shit, you could include Fales in the conversation just as quickly as you could Carr.
Yeah I'd say that Bridgewater, Manziel, and Bortles are higher than Carr. But they are the top 4 prospects.
Regardless there's people who think Bortles is the best prospect. Others say Manziel or Bridgewater. I'd be ok with any one of them since I'm not particularly high on any of them.
The FO would have to have one of those guys rated significantly higher than the others to make a trade like that. But it's all piss in the water until we learn their intentions on draft day.
I agree that Pete Carroll is a significantly better coach than any we've seen in a looong time. Their scouting department is also probably better than anything we've seen in a decent while (I'm sure Pete Carroll has a pretty big voice in personnel decisions there too).
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I honestly believe if we trade Hoyer we will regret it. Call it gut feel, call it bullshit , call it what you will I just strongly feel that. I loved how the team played with him in the game. Add a running game, another receiver and a guard to that and wow I think you have magic. Yes I know it was only two games and again I might be full of it but its what I feel.
I really do not want to see us going into the season with a rookie starter , a rookie back up and a third string vet.
The more likely scenario would be sending Hoyer to Washington for Cousins which again I would absolutely hate.
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I think it's manufactured because I think I caught the original tweet. Just speculation, like, "Hey, maybe O'Brien would trade for Hoyer!"
But if the Browns draft Manziel, I think he's more likely to start day one than anybody, mostly because Shanahan will structure the offense around him like he did RG3 (and I'd sure as hell take how that worked, rookie RB and all). And as a backup/mentor type, Jason Campbell is far more experienced and credible than Hoyer and his 4 starts.
BUT... if you don't intend to start the rookie, I'd take Hoyer over Campbell OR Cousins. All day.
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I think it's manufactured because I think I caught the original tweet. Just speculation, like, "Hey, maybe O'Brien would trade for Hoyer!"
But if the Browns draft Manziel, I think he's more likely to start day one than anybody, mostly because Shanahan will structure the offense around him like he did RG3 (and I'd sure as hell take how that worked, rookie RB and all). And as a backup/mentor type, Jason Campbell is far more experienced and credible than Hoyer and his 4 starts.
BUT... if you don't intend to start the rookie, I'd take Hoyer over Campbell OR Cousins. All day.
I think it's manufactured because I think I caught the original tweet. Just speculation, like, "Hey, maybe O'Brien would trade for Hoyer!"
But if the Browns draft Manziel, I think he's more likely to start day one than anybody, mostly because Shanahan will structure the offense around him like he did RG3 (and I'd sure as hell take how that worked, rookie RB and all). And as a backup/mentor type, Jason Campbell is far more experienced and credible than Hoyer and his 4 starts.
BUT... if you don't intend to start the rookie, I'd take Hoyer over Campbell OR Cousins. All day.
Shep based on the play style you will get with Manziel and the good possibility he gets creamed wouldn't you prefer having Hoyer there to come in the game over Campbell or Cousins??
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No problem bud. Shitcan them all.
But...
giving up half your pics and you're only quality quarterbacks for Johnny football means that you will not have Seattle's defense and that's a fact.
See that was kind of the key having the best defense in the league. The defense that can shut down Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, not the defense that makes Kirk Cousins look like a young Joe Namath.
I think if you take blue chip players with your high pics and roll the dice on a quarterback in two or three he will be fine.
I picked the name Brandon Weeden for my Super Bowl trip scenario because most of you guys hate him. I figure Brian Hoyer or Jason Campbell would have worked a lot better with a great defense. Maybe not even looked much better but remember how many games we lost in the second half because the defense fell on her ass?
WSS
Why wouldn't we have Seattle's defense? Because we're not drafting them high enough?
We have a higher ADP of our defensive players than they do. Our players were drafted higher than theirs.
Pete Carroll is a better defensive mind than Ray Horton. Ray Horton is not a good defensive coordinator, as I've been saying for a while. The proof is in the pudding. He had a more talented team than Seattle, based on average draft position, but didn't know how to use them.
Either that or Seattle's scouting department is just ridiculously better than 31 other teams. Either way, taking a quarterback at #4 doesn't change either of those facts.
Either that or Seattle's scouting department is just ridiculously better than 31 other teams.
this^. i think our scouting has been some of the worse this league has seen since coming back in '99.
but your comment of picking a QB @4 this year doesn't make sense in your argument about the seattle/cleveland comparison. remember wilson was a 3rd rounder. and i'm sure their front office didn't 'sell their soul' for any one position.
they sure as hell have made it look easy building a quality team since hiring carroll, than we have in 2 decades.
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I think it's manufactured because I think I caught the original tweet. Just speculation, like, "Hey, maybe O'Brien would trade for Hoyer!"
But if the Browns draft Manziel, I think he's more likely to start day one than anybody, mostly because Shanahan will structure the offense around him like he did RG3 (and I'd sure as hell take how that worked, rookie RB and all). And as a backup/mentor type, Jason Campbell is far more experienced and credible than Hoyer and his 4 starts.
BUT... if you don't intend to start the rookie, I'd take Hoyer over Campbell OR Cousins. All day.
Shep based on the play style you will get with Manziel and the good possibility he gets creamed wouldn't you prefer having Hoyer there to come in the game over Campbell or Cousins??
Statues get creamed. Johnny Football escapes. Plus, he'd have the best blindside blocker in football.
But I prefer Hoyer to Campbell on the field, period.
If you're talking about his love of contact, he'll need to get over it and step out of bounds, slide, etc. But he's done pretty well staying healthy... in the SEC.
Shep based on the play style you will get with Manziel and the good possibility he gets creamed wouldn't you prefer having Hoyer there to come in the game over Campbell or Cousins??
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It's interesting that Seattle came really close to drafting Wilson in the 2nd round. Of course, now they'd take him top 10, if they could. Nick Foles might be top 10. Best two third round picks I've seen in quite some time.
Then again, last third round pick I saw start that many games that soon was Colt McCoy. Before that, Charlie Frye. Isn't like we haven't tried that route. We just didn't get steals.
Wilson was a steal because of height. Foles because people mistook his 40 time for a lack of mobility... and he's actually plenty mobile and athletic. I'd hate to see Big Ben's 40 time right now. Both guys should've had first round grades on arm talent. McCoy and Frye weren't 5'11" and didn't run 5.14/40s, so why were they available in round 3?
Because they aren't good.
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Hoyer is the only hope I have for the 2014 Browns
Hoyer is the only hope I have for the 2014 Browns
here here!
i'm not against picking a QB @4 BUT you better make the can can win in the NFL. if you flop on a top 5 QB you are doomed for years to come.
i say use the quality picks on sure fire D players and offensive weapons play hoyer, good or bad. then aim at your guy next year.
i'm sure the jets would give back their last QB drafts to do the same.
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We have too many needs to trade a later pick to move up at least anything in the top 3/4 rounds.
Say we trade Hoyer, #4, a 3rd to Houston for the #1 pick. Then we take manziel because it's no secret the browns have a love affair with him.
Then we have to take a second QB probably a Boyd type in round 4/5. Maybe a Garrapolo type in round 3.
I'm sure lots of fans like this scenario and I'd have no idea as to why.
1.) I'd rather have Hoyer than Boyd/Garappolo.
2.) I'd rather use the pick used on Boyd/Garrapolo (garappolo will go in round 3 , maybe 2) on another position of need.
3.) At this point, there is no clear best QB prospect. In a poll it would probably be split between Bortles/Carr/Manziel/Bridgewater. One of which will be there at #4
We'd be essentially throwing away 2 decent draft picks that could add nice depth or even starters.
If a QB emerges as a clear #1 by May, then I'd be all for it. But at this point, there isn't one.
I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.
Carr is a top 4 QB prospect solely purely because of numbers. He's four of six quarterbacks that will get drafted before round 5. That, in no way, puts him in the category of being considered as the best QB prospect.
Shit, you could include Fales in the conversation just as quickly as you could Carr.
IMO, There's not enough of a difference between the 4th and 1st pick in this draft to warrant trading Hoyer + other picks away. If we move up to get Manziel, he is not worth a first overall pick, and would probably be there at #4. I'd rather sit at 4 and take whoever falls to us.
I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.
Here you go: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1944924-2014-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions/page/4
Obviously this is a dumb mock and he will not go this high, even though that'd be great for us if the Jags actually did this.
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Either that or Seattle's scouting department is just ridiculously better than 31 other teams.
this^. i think our scouting has been some of the worse this league has seen since coming back in '99.
but your comment of picking a QB @4 this year doesn't make sense in your argument about the seattle/cleveland comparison. remember wilson was a 3rd rounder. and i'm sure their front office didn't 'sell their soul' for any one position.
they sure as hell have made it look easy building a quality team since hiring carroll, than we have in 2 decades.
this^. i think our scouting has been some of the worse this league has seen since coming back in '99.
but your comment of picking a QB @4 this year doesn't make sense in your argument about the seattle/cleveland comparison. remember wilson was a 3rd rounder. and i'm sure their front office didn't 'sell their soul' for any one position.
they sure as hell have made it look easy building a quality team since hiring carroll, than we have in 2 decades.
Nobody is asking anyone to sell their soul, so I don't understand that.
Wilson is also a big part of the reason Manziel is even being considered in the top 5. He's proven that size does not matter, which I'm sure makes a lot of guys around here have been telling themselves for years.
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IMO, There's not enough of a difference between the 4th and 1st pick in this draft to warrant trading Hoyer + other picks away. If we move up to get Manziel, he is not worth a first overall pick, and would probably be there at #4. I'd rather sit at 4 and take whoever falls to us.
I'd love to see a recent scouting report pitting Carr in the Top 5, or even the first round.
Here you go: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1944924-2014-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions/page/4
Obviously this is a dumb mock and he will not go this high, even though that'd be great for us if the Jags actually did this.
IMO, There's not enough of a difference between the 4th and 1st pick in this draft to warrant trading Hoyer + other picks away. If we move up to get Manziel, he is not worth a first overall pick, and would probably be there at #4. I'd rather sit at 4 and take whoever falls to us.
Here you go: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1944924-2014-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions/page/4
Obviously this is a dumb mock and he will not go this high, even though that'd be great for us if the Jags actually did this.
Wow.
Please let this happen.
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This is the closest thing I've come across so far :
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/02/will_the_browns_trade_for_kirk.html
I like Hoyer, and I think he's got the infamous "it" factor
He's definitely the only QB I've seen spark the Team and lead come from behind victories in some years.
I don't know what anyone else has been hearing, but I've seen what I'd normally say is some crazy stuff.
There's new thinking in town though now, we've seen that for sure this year with the Trent deal and the shopping of Gordon . . .
So we've got Hoyer to the Texans, and possibly more (draft pick/another player)
Cousins coming to the Browns due to our just signing Shanahan as our OC since they've worked together
There's a Haden rumor for additional draft picks floating around
Word is Mack's gone (pretty much expected), and Ward may get the Franchise tag.
Possibly some more, but these are the closest to being remotely possible.
Can't say it's going to be boring with all these things kicking up, should be interesting to see how it shakes out.
3/11/14 is when things should start to get real as far as cuts/trades I believe . . . we'll see.
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