My Take on the Browns 2009 Draft
-
Good discussion.
I agree a trade down would be the ideal. This draft isn't all that top heavy but offers much depth through maybe the early 3rd round. The players maybe worth the 5th pick seem to be players we won't take. Crabtree is one mentioned...I also think a few of the O-linemen would be worth the pick but I get hammered when I mention that around here...so I won't...or I just do that?
Every draft seems to produce a slot somewhere in the top 6-7 picks that seems to be the key spot where teams looking to move up feel like they need to go....and this year 5 looks like it has the chance to be that spot.
OTs usually generate a lot of interest come draft day....and this is a OT draft for the ages.
There seems to be 2-3 teams directly behind us who may be looking for line help...anybody behind them who wants one of those big OTs is going to have to move in front of them...lets hope that is where we come in!!
-
actually he should wait until draft day to even think about trading the #5 pick. he will get a lot more for it. No team will be willing to give up a whole lot at this point. Teams only give a whole lot for your pick on draft day when a player they have a hard on for is still available and they really want him. At this point they have no idea who is going to fall where in the draft or who they really want.
No one makes you pick. you can do what some teams have done in the past and not pick anyone. then the next team goes but you can pick anytime after that.
-
what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night. JD
************************************
True. What I read, was he was getting, obviously, double teamed so much, he was getting frustrated.
Then, he decided to go wild with different moves, and between one move and another, found he was still
able to sack qb's...
Watching Brown get to the qb reminds me of Polymoomoo on a blitz.
Watch some highlights of him... he's scary fast - with a tremendous burst.
And, he can also drop back, he's far more fluid in the hips than a Ghoulston, so "they" say...
What do I know? I'm a computer guy farmer, a fisher of fish, a hunter of groundhog and squirrel..
(although I'd like to hunt wild turkey next year, and pheasant hunting was fun, but they froze out years ago in winter)
-
@shepwrite said:
I like Curry, but only inside... and it feels a bit like a safe pick. I just can't seem to get super fired up about it, probably because SILB isn't much of a glamor position. I really thought we'd filled it with Beau Bell, a thick tough guy who would do that dirty work to free up Jackson to pad his tackle total even more. And remember, DQJ led the NFL in tackles AND had 3 picks. He's good.I think we could actually use a linebacker who's better in coverage. D'Qwell's athletic enough to play his zone, but he doesn't have the speed to chase RB's and athletic TE's.
It'd be nice to have a linebacker who could cover a TE man to man. We thought Leon Williams would do that, but he sucks. What makes it worse is that Sean Jones isn't very good at covering these guys.
I don't think it's a coincidence that our two worst defensive performances involved TE's running through our defense - Jason Witten in Week 1 (6 catches, 96 yards and a dropped pass that would have tacked on an additional 20 yards) and Denver's TE's in Week 10 (7 catches, 142 yards, 1 TD).
-
@shepwrite said:
I like Curry, but only inside... and it feels a bit like a safe pick. I just can't seem to get super fired up about it, probably because SILB isn't much of a glamor position. I really thought we'd filled it with Beau Bell, a thick tough guy who would do that dirty work to free up Jackson to pad his tackle total even more. And remember, DQJ led the NFL in tackles AND had 3 picks. He's good.I think we could actually use a linebacker who's better in coverage. D'Qwell's athletic enough to play his zone, but he doesn't have the speed to chase RB's and athletic TE's.
It'd be nice to have a linebacker who could cover a TE man to man. We thought Leon Williams would do that, but he sucks. What makes it worse is that Sean Jones isn't very good at covering these guys.
I don't think it's a coincidence that our two worst defensive performances involved TE's running through our defense - Jason Witten in Week 1 (6 catches, 96 yards and a dropped pass that would have tacked on an additional 20 yards) and Denver's TE's in Week 10 (7 catches, 142 yards, 1 TD).
Aloysius said:
I don't think it's a coincidence that our two worst defensive performances involved TE's running through our defense - Jason Witten in Week 1 (6 catches, 96 yards and a dropped pass that would have tacked on an additional 20 yards) and Denver's TE's in Week 10 (7 catches, 142 yards, 1 TD).In the case of the DEN game, that was about picking apart the cover 2 CLE stayed in (and Cutler talked about after the game how CLE stayed in it and they new CLE would). In the case of DAL, well let's be honest, Witten is a TE in the league that there is maybe a handful of LB/S that can even cover. Just like Winslow.
-
good stuff, but what do we do in the event that crabtree's gone at five and we can't trade out of it? does everette brown warrant a top five selection?
we'd look at curry more as a guy to play inside than a pass rusher, someone to stop the run and patrol the middle of the field who can also occasionally rush the passer, not a guy who pins his ears back play after play. in that capacity, isn't someone who patrols the middle of the field worth a top five pick? he can make running the ball harder and make receivers think twice about going over the middle, though there are guys later who can also be our SILB (jasper brinkley).
i agree that this is more of a deep draft than a star draft. there aren't guys who warrant top five status and there isn't a clear cut cream of the crop like there was supposed to be in the reggie bush/vince young draft.
i see two ways out of the top five for us; crabtree falls, some team freaks out and decides they need him, and we get out of it that way, or we convince green bay or denver that cincinnati is gonna take b.j. raji at six and move down to either nine or twelve depending on which team wants him more.
the crabtree scenario is far more lucrative for us. he's this year's sure-fire talent and auctioning him off will garner a far larger reward than raji, a guy who appeals to fewer teams and isn't as flashy a pick. unfortunately, the raji contingency is far likelier. either way, nothing happens until draft day. trading into the top five isn't anything most teams want to do; the financial commitment is stupidly prohibitive. having the fifth pick in the last draft without slot-specific rookie salaries sucks.
what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night.
jason, i'd like to know your take on larry english and clay matthews, my top choices for us to add at OLB. both had great weeks at the senior bowl, especially in one on ones, where matthews bull rushed oher into the QB then got around him with a speed rush and english flat-out got around everyone with his combination of speed and an arm under move that he can use when tackles commit to blocking the speed rush. english is a little raw, but very talented, while matthews is more the lunch pail type. also, i want to add that i initially didn't want matthews because i thought he was just a sentimental pick, but it turns out he's a pretty good player.
as far as wells goes, i don't trust him to be a consistent NFL player, and it all started because he goes by a stupid nickname. it's bad enough when players decide to be known by their nicknames, but this guy also goes by a stupid, kid-sounding one. it's a sign of massive immaturity and, to me, a giant red flag. does he have the potential? yes. will he ever achieve it? likely not.
nicks looked great in UNC's bowl game, but it was the only time i saw him all year. if he can be anywhere near as good in the NFL as he was in that game, he'll be a great player, because he absolutely dominated that game. he was utterly unstoppable.
oher and mack are definitely boring picks, but we need help on the line and they could definitely give it to us. however, i think we'd have to take oher in the top 10, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of trading down. mack would be a great pick in the second, but if we have to take him late in the first, so be it.
jasper brinkley's my guy. he's maualuga without the pub, but also with a knee injury that he might or might not fully recover from. either way, i want his chance to be with us. he's the exact hard-hitting compliment to d'qwell that will make running the ball inside the tackles impossible. plus, there's no reason to spend more than a third-round pick on a purely situational player.
william moore is disconcerting to me. he had a great junior year, but then got torched all year as a senior. it remains to be seen whether his coverage issues were a result of being injured this year, which he reportedly was, or whether he's possibly as terrible in coverage as he looked. either way, i'm leaning more towards louis delmas or rashad johnson.
last, ramses barden is huge, there's no denying that. he'll likely go higher than he should.
well, that went on forever. if anyone made it this far, thanks for persevering.
good stuff, but what do we do in the event that crabtree's gone at five and we can't trade out of it? does everette brown warrant a top five selection?
we'd look at curry more as a guy to play inside than a pass rusher, someone to stop the run and patrol the middle of the field who can also occasionally rush the passer, not a guy who pins his ears back play after play. in that capacity, isn't someone who patrols the middle of the field worth a top five pick? he can make running the ball harder and make receivers think twice about going over the middle, though there are guys later who can also be our SILB (jasper brinkley).
i agree that this is more of a deep draft than a star draft. there aren't guys who warrant top five status and there isn't a clear cut cream of the crop like there was supposed to be in the reggie bush/vince young draft.
i see two ways out of the top five for us; crabtree falls, some team freaks out and decides they need him, and we get out of it that way, or we convince green bay or denver that cincinnati is gonna take b.j. raji at six and move down to either nine or twelve depending on which team wants him more.
the crabtree scenario is far more lucrative for us. he's this year's sure-fire talent and auctioning him off will garner a far larger reward than raji, a guy who appeals to fewer teams and isn't as flashy a pick. unfortunately, the raji contingency is far likelier. either way, nothing happens until draft day. trading into the top five isn't anything most teams want to do; the financial commitment is stupidly prohibitive. having the fifth pick in the last draft without slot-specific rookie salaries sucks.
what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night.
jason, i'd like to know your take on larry english and clay matthews, my top choices for us to add at OLB. both had great weeks at the senior bowl, especially in one on ones, where matthews bull rushed oher into the QB then got around him with a speed rush and english flat-out got around everyone with his combination of speed and an arm under move that he can use when tackles commit to blocking the speed rush. english is a little raw, but very talented, while matthews is more the lunch pail type. also, i want to add that i initially didn't want matthews because i thought he was just a sentimental pick, but it turns out he's a pretty good player.
as far as wells goes, i don't trust him to be a consistent NFL player, and it all started because he goes by a stupid nickname. it's bad enough when players decide to be known by their nicknames, but this guy also goes by a stupid, kid-sounding one. it's a sign of massive immaturity and, to me, a giant red flag. does he have the potential? yes. will he ever achieve it? likely not.
nicks looked great in UNC's bowl game, but it was the only time i saw him all year. if he can be anywhere near as good in the NFL as he was in that game, he'll be a great player, because he absolutely dominated that game. he was utterly unstoppable.
oher and mack are definitely boring picks, but we need help on the line and they could definitely give it to us. however, i think we'd have to take oher in the top 10, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of trading down. mack would be a great pick in the second, but if we have to take him late in the first, so be it.
jasper brinkley's my guy. he's maualuga without the pub, but also with a knee injury that he might or might not fully recover from. either way, i want his chance to be with us. he's the exact hard-hitting compliment to d'qwell that will make running the ball inside the tackles impossible. plus, there's no reason to spend more than a third-round pick on a purely situational player.
william moore is disconcerting to me. he had a great junior year, but then got torched all year as a senior. it remains to be seen whether his coverage issues were a result of being injured this year, which he reportedly was, or whether he's possibly as terrible in coverage as he looked. either way, i'm leaning more towards louis delmas or rashad johnson.
last, ramses barden is huge, there's no denying that. he'll likely go higher than he should.
well, that went on forever. if anyone made it this far, thanks for persevering.
Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.
Matthews is another one of those guys that scares me, but only a little. I have a feeling his pedigree may elevate his draft position higher than it should. He's got a bit of that Bobby Carpenter thing... and I don't mean the hair. You can't doubt how much he wants it (being a star in the League)... but you know he doesn't need it. And that's hard to pinpoint. Kid grows up in a family full of NFL stars, he's a good student, solid education... at some point you have to wonder if self preservation edges out the urge to do everything you can to win. That's something the Browns will have to figure out in the interview process.
I know you have to look at the fact that he basically outworked every elite athlete in the country to earn a scholarship at USC, but there's a reason he was walking on. And from a Browns standpoint, what do you do with him? His a bit slight for that 3-4 backer position... or if he isn't, he's likely a 2 down backer at best.
So, while I like the story that Matthews brings to the Browns (the prodigal son returns, so to speak), I'm not sure I'd bet on life imitating art here.
-jj
-
good stuff, but what do we do in the event that crabtree's gone at five and we can't trade out of it? does everette brown warrant a top five selection?
we'd look at curry more as a guy to play inside than a pass rusher, someone to stop the run and patrol the middle of the field who can also occasionally rush the passer, not a guy who pins his ears back play after play. in that capacity, isn't someone who patrols the middle of the field worth a top five pick? he can make running the ball harder and make receivers think twice about going over the middle, though there are guys later who can also be our SILB (jasper brinkley).
i agree that this is more of a deep draft than a star draft. there aren't guys who warrant top five status and there isn't a clear cut cream of the crop like there was supposed to be in the reggie bush/vince young draft.
i see two ways out of the top five for us; crabtree falls, some team freaks out and decides they need him, and we get out of it that way, or we convince green bay or denver that cincinnati is gonna take b.j. raji at six and move down to either nine or twelve depending on which team wants him more.
the crabtree scenario is far more lucrative for us. he's this year's sure-fire talent and auctioning him off will garner a far larger reward than raji, a guy who appeals to fewer teams and isn't as flashy a pick. unfortunately, the raji contingency is far likelier. either way, nothing happens until draft day. trading into the top five isn't anything most teams want to do; the financial commitment is stupidly prohibitive. having the fifth pick in the last draft without slot-specific rookie salaries sucks.
what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night.
jason, i'd like to know your take on larry english and clay matthews, my top choices for us to add at OLB. both had great weeks at the senior bowl, especially in one on ones, where matthews bull rushed oher into the QB then got around him with a speed rush and english flat-out got around everyone with his combination of speed and an arm under move that he can use when tackles commit to blocking the speed rush. english is a little raw, but very talented, while matthews is more the lunch pail type. also, i want to add that i initially didn't want matthews because i thought he was just a sentimental pick, but it turns out he's a pretty good player.
as far as wells goes, i don't trust him to be a consistent NFL player, and it all started because he goes by a stupid nickname. it's bad enough when players decide to be known by their nicknames, but this guy also goes by a stupid, kid-sounding one. it's a sign of massive immaturity and, to me, a giant red flag. does he have the potential? yes. will he ever achieve it? likely not.
nicks looked great in UNC's bowl game, but it was the only time i saw him all year. if he can be anywhere near as good in the NFL as he was in that game, he'll be a great player, because he absolutely dominated that game. he was utterly unstoppable.
oher and mack are definitely boring picks, but we need help on the line and they could definitely give it to us. however, i think we'd have to take oher in the top 10, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of trading down. mack would be a great pick in the second, but if we have to take him late in the first, so be it.
jasper brinkley's my guy. he's maualuga without the pub, but also with a knee injury that he might or might not fully recover from. either way, i want his chance to be with us. he's the exact hard-hitting compliment to d'qwell that will make running the ball inside the tackles impossible. plus, there's no reason to spend more than a third-round pick on a purely situational player.
william moore is disconcerting to me. he had a great junior year, but then got torched all year as a senior. it remains to be seen whether his coverage issues were a result of being injured this year, which he reportedly was, or whether he's possibly as terrible in coverage as he looked. either way, i'm leaning more towards louis delmas or rashad johnson.
last, ramses barden is huge, there's no denying that. he'll likely go higher than he should.
well, that went on forever. if anyone made it this far, thanks for persevering.
Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.
Matthews is another one of those guys that scares me, but only a little. I have a feeling his pedigree may elevate his draft position higher than it should. He's got a bit of that Bobby Carpenter thing... and I don't mean the hair. You can't doubt how much he wants it (being a star in the League)... but you know he doesn't need it. And that's hard to pinpoint. Kid grows up in a family full of NFL stars, he's a good student, solid education... at some point you have to wonder if self preservation edges out the urge to do everything you can to win. That's something the Browns will have to figure out in the interview process.
I know you have to look at the fact that he basically outworked every elite athlete in the country to earn a scholarship at USC, but there's a reason he was walking on. And from a Browns standpoint, what do you do with him? His a bit slight for that 3-4 backer position... or if he isn't, he's likely a 2 down backer at best.
So, while I like the story that Matthews brings to the Browns (the prodigal son returns, so to speak), I'm not sure I'd bet on life imitating art here.
-jj
Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.
Matthews is another one of those guys that scares me, but only a little. I have a feeling his pedigree may elevate his draft position higher than it should. He's got a bit of that Bobby Carpenter thing... and I don't mean the hair. You can't doubt how much he wants it (being a star in the League)... but you know he doesn't need it. And that's hard to pinpoint. Kid grows up in a family full of NFL stars, he's a good student, solid education... at some point you have to wonder if self preservation edges out the urge to do everything you can to win. That's something the Browns will have to figure out in the interview process.
I know you have to look at the fact that he basically outworked every elite athlete in the country to earn a scholarship at USC, but there's a reason he was walking on. And from a Browns standpoint, what do you do with him? His a bit slight for that 3-4 backer position... or if he isn't, he's likely a 2 down backer at best.
So, while I like the story that Matthews brings to the Browns (the prodigal son returns, so to speak), I'm not sure I'd bet on life imitating art here.
-jj
Wasn't part of the reason he was a walk on because he was so small still coming out of HS and a late bloomer, as far as growing into his build (something like only 185lbs when he left HS)?
-
Aloysius said:
I don't think it's a coincidence that our two worst defensive performances involved TE's running through our defense - Jason Witten in Week 1 (6 catches, 96 yards and a dropped pass that would have tacked on an additional 20 yards) and Denver's TE's in Week 10 (7 catches, 142 yards, 1 TD).In the case of the DEN game, that was about picking apart the cover 2 CLE stayed in (and Cutler talked about after the game how CLE stayed in it and they new CLE would). In the case of DAL, well let's be honest, Witten is a TE in the league that there is maybe a handful of LB/S that can even cover. Just like Winslow.
Masters said:
In the case of the DEN game, that was about picking apart the cover 2 CLE stayed in (and Cutler talked about after the game how CLE stayed in it and they new CLE would). In the case of DAL, well let's be honest, Witten is a TE in the league that there is maybe a handful of LB/S that can even cover. Just like Winslow.True, but I think my broader point still holds. If you re-watch the Dallas game, D'Qwell's inability to chase Witten sideline to sideline out. He also had a bad missed tackle in coverage, allowing Marion Barber to gain an additional 10-15 yards.
I'm not saying he's bad in coverage; it's just that he isn't as good as a guy like Bart Scott. And if you have a slow-footed guy starting next to him, you could have a lot of problems.
(I think YTown's made this point before)
-
Masters said:
In the case of the DEN game, that was about picking apart the cover 2 CLE stayed in (and Cutler talked about after the game how CLE stayed in it and they new CLE would). In the case of DAL, well let's be honest, Witten is a TE in the league that there is maybe a handful of LB/S that can even cover. Just like Winslow.True, but I think my broader point still holds. If you re-watch the Dallas game, D'Qwell's inability to chase Witten sideline to sideline out. He also had a bad missed tackle in coverage, allowing Marion Barber to gain an additional 10-15 yards.
I'm not saying he's bad in coverage; it's just that he isn't as good as a guy like Bart Scott. And if you have a slow-footed guy starting next to him, you could have a lot of problems.
(I think YTown's made this point before)
Aloysius said:
True, but I think my broader point still holds. If you re-watch the Dallas game, D'Qwell's inability to chase Witten sideline to sideline out. He also had a bad missed tackle in coverage, allowing Marion Barber to gain an additional 10-15 yards.I'm not saying he's bad in coverage; it's just that he isn't as good as a guy like Bart Scott. And if you have a slow-footed guy starting next to him, you could have a lot of problems.
(I think YTown's made this point before)
I get your point. I wouldn't disagree that there are guys who can do it better than Jackson. But I think my boarder point holds true as well, in that there are only a handful of players at LB/S that can cover Witten.
As for the missed tackles, well, that is CLE's D the last several years in a nut shell. No one seems to know how to tackle in space. I am gonna love Mangini doing live tackling drills!
-
good stuff, but what do we do in the event that crabtree's gone at five and we can't trade out of it? does everette brown warrant a top five selection?
we'd look at curry more as a guy to play inside than a pass rusher, someone to stop the run and patrol the middle of the field who can also occasionally rush the passer, not a guy who pins his ears back play after play. in that capacity, isn't someone who patrols the middle of the field worth a top five pick? he can make running the ball harder and make receivers think twice about going over the middle, though there are guys later who can also be our SILB (jasper brinkley).
i agree that this is more of a deep draft than a star draft. there aren't guys who warrant top five status and there isn't a clear cut cream of the crop like there was supposed to be in the reggie bush/vince young draft.
i see two ways out of the top five for us; crabtree falls, some team freaks out and decides they need him, and we get out of it that way, or we convince green bay or denver that cincinnati is gonna take b.j. raji at six and move down to either nine or twelve depending on which team wants him more.
the crabtree scenario is far more lucrative for us. he's this year's sure-fire talent and auctioning him off will garner a far larger reward than raji, a guy who appeals to fewer teams and isn't as flashy a pick. unfortunately, the raji contingency is far likelier. either way, nothing happens until draft day. trading into the top five isn't anything most teams want to do; the financial commitment is stupidly prohibitive. having the fifth pick in the last draft without slot-specific rookie salaries sucks.
what worries me about brown is that he runs hot and cold. he's had great games this year, and i saw only the lackluster ones where he didn't have his name called all night.
jason, i'd like to know your take on larry english and clay matthews, my top choices for us to add at OLB. both had great weeks at the senior bowl, especially in one on ones, where matthews bull rushed oher into the QB then got around him with a speed rush and english flat-out got around everyone with his combination of speed and an arm under move that he can use when tackles commit to blocking the speed rush. english is a little raw, but very talented, while matthews is more the lunch pail type. also, i want to add that i initially didn't want matthews because i thought he was just a sentimental pick, but it turns out he's a pretty good player.
as far as wells goes, i don't trust him to be a consistent NFL player, and it all started because he goes by a stupid nickname. it's bad enough when players decide to be known by their nicknames, but this guy also goes by a stupid, kid-sounding one. it's a sign of massive immaturity and, to me, a giant red flag. does he have the potential? yes. will he ever achieve it? likely not.
nicks looked great in UNC's bowl game, but it was the only time i saw him all year. if he can be anywhere near as good in the NFL as he was in that game, he'll be a great player, because he absolutely dominated that game. he was utterly unstoppable.
oher and mack are definitely boring picks, but we need help on the line and they could definitely give it to us. however, i think we'd have to take oher in the top 10, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of trading down. mack would be a great pick in the second, but if we have to take him late in the first, so be it.
jasper brinkley's my guy. he's maualuga without the pub, but also with a knee injury that he might or might not fully recover from. either way, i want his chance to be with us. he's the exact hard-hitting compliment to d'qwell that will make running the ball inside the tackles impossible. plus, there's no reason to spend more than a third-round pick on a purely situational player.
william moore is disconcerting to me. he had a great junior year, but then got torched all year as a senior. it remains to be seen whether his coverage issues were a result of being injured this year, which he reportedly was, or whether he's possibly as terrible in coverage as he looked. either way, i'm leaning more towards louis delmas or rashad johnson.
last, ramses barden is huge, there's no denying that. he'll likely go higher than he should.
well, that went on forever. if anyone made it this far, thanks for persevering.
Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.
Matthews is another one of those guys that scares me, but only a little. I have a feeling his pedigree may elevate his draft position higher than it should. He's got a bit of that Bobby Carpenter thing... and I don't mean the hair. You can't doubt how much he wants it (being a star in the League)... but you know he doesn't need it. And that's hard to pinpoint. Kid grows up in a family full of NFL stars, he's a good student, solid education... at some point you have to wonder if self preservation edges out the urge to do everything you can to win. That's something the Browns will have to figure out in the interview process.
I know you have to look at the fact that he basically outworked every elite athlete in the country to earn a scholarship at USC, but there's a reason he was walking on. And from a Browns standpoint, what do you do with him? His a bit slight for that 3-4 backer position... or if he isn't, he's likely a 2 down backer at best.
So, while I like the story that Matthews brings to the Browns (the prodigal son returns, so to speak), I'm not sure I'd bet on life imitating art here.
-jj
Couple things: I'm not high on Larry English. He's a little light in the seat to be a solid 3-4 contributor early. He's got great tools. But he's probably a SOLB in a 4-3 somewhere.
Disagree about English. One of the only negative things I heard about his Senior Bowl week was that he struggled in linebacker drills (at least at first).
I think it's more likely that he'll play DE in a Tampa 2 defense than 4-3 SOLB.
-
Who can be there at #5 that is worth trading up for? Normally that is a QB or LT. Since there seems to be more than one good LT in this draft that is unlikely. I don't think there is a QB in the draft to tempt someone to move up, please convince me I am wrong.
I would like to know who has a need that might be there at #5
-
@shepwrite said:
I like Curry, but only inside... and it feels a bit like a safe pick. I just can't seem to get super fired up about it, probably because SILB isn't much of a glamor position. I really thought we'd filled it with Beau Bell, a thick tough guy who would do that dirty work to free up Jackson to pad his tackle total even more. And remember, DQJ led the NFL in tackles AND had 3 picks. He's good.Whenever I read about Rey being a thug against the run, a guy who loves to blow up blockers, I think: That's the guy. But certainly not at 5... more like 15 if he's still there.
I like the way you think on the Brinkley pick in round 3, which makes more sense in a Steeler-ey kind of way. JJ, what separates Brinkley from Bell? Just Bell's knee and diminished quicks? Or is Brinkley better? If so, I like it, especially with an Everette Brown pick that moves Wimbley to the strong side... and a tailback in round 2.
All of this demands that we address offense (center and WR) in free agency. And probably again in round 4. Oh, and it demands that a pick comes in the door for Anderson.
Great stuff, JJ. Unlike my certifiable friend Heck, you didn't even mention Raji. Which is just lunacy with Rogers and Rubin.
The thing is, if you believe that the SILB position is the key position of need, again there are better candidates than Curry. And I believe it is one of the key positions the Browns need to upgrade in '09. The argument can be made that WILB is also a position of need... But, right now, Jackson's the best of the bunch, and you probably want to address other areas before you worry about replacing the second best player on your defense, even if he's not an ideal fit.
To your point, Maualuga is much better option for the Browns today.. The upside with Rey is you could slot him in at the strong with the knowledge that he may eventually unseat Jackson at the Mike. Let him bang around a couple of seasons, turn him loose when Jackson leaves via free agency, then re-slot the strong side backer position. It's a workable plan. And precisely what Mangini did with David Harris last season. Harris will be the starting WILB in '09, but he paid his dues in '08.
I'm not sure I could find fault with the Browns jockeying to get Maualuga.
And on Raji... no, no, no. Being the best pure NT in the draft does not make you a #1 pick. He's too short, too round, and plays with poor leverage too often. He's Babatunde Oshinowo minus 30 IQ points. Pass!
As far as Bell v. Brinkley... there isn't a lot to go on. Bell couldn't get himself on the field with the Browns in '08. And there's precious little tape from UNLV to go on. But, he has two things working against him:
1.) The knee: At his position you worry less about his mobility and more about his faith in the joint. It's a leverage thing. At the strong side backer he has to be able to face up a blocker, get his shins parallel with his forearms and explode into a guard or fullback. If he's got any misgivings about the solvency of that knee, he's going to rotate his trunk to protect it. When he does that he gives up his leverage position and is reduced to guessing which side to pivot to.
2.) Well... rumor has it that Beau isn't exactly a quick study. He's a thinker rather than a doer, and... well... his thinker isn't exactly the highest function organ in his body.
Brinkley, on the other hand, is a bit bigger guy. He's just built on a larger frame. It's subtle, but you have to look at the way Brinkley uses his extension to create separation at the point of attack. He's not a sideline to sideline defender, but is as strong LB as there is in the draft when it comes to mixing it up in the pit.
He's also shown a willingness to play his role inside the defensive scheme. He's a team guy that players and coaches love. He may not be the most athletically gifted, but he's not a liability if you confine his role. He'll likely be on the sideline on 3rd down. But he could be an asset in turning a lot of first-and-tens into second and nines.
-jj
-
Who can be there at #5 that is worth trading up for? Normally that is a QB or LT. Since there seems to be more than one good LT in this draft that is unlikely. I don't think there is a QB in the draft to tempt someone to move up, please convince me I am wrong.
I would like to know who has a need that might be there at #5
Who can be there at #5 that is worth trading up for? Normally that is a QB or LT. Since there seems to be more than one good LT in this draft that is unlikely. I don't think there is a QB in the draft to tempt someone to move up, please convince me I am wrong.
I would like to know who has a need that might be there at #5
Well, there could be quite a few depending on how it plays out. If Detroit makes a deal for Derrick Anderson (the rumor mill is already grinding on that one), they could conceivably make a run at LT Andre Smith. This could send Mark Sanchez dropping down the board. He could draw interest from the Jets at #17, da Bears at #18, Minnesota at #22 and conceivably Houston at #15.
Crabtree could still be there, which speaks for itself. The aforementioned Curry is going to be a draw for several teams. Not to mention, Jeremy Maclin, Brian Orakpo, Malcom Jenkins could be someone's gotta have him guy.
-jj
-
@shepwrite said:
I like Curry, but only inside... and it feels a bit like a safe pick. I just can't seem to get super fired up about it, probably because SILB isn't much of a glamor position. I really thought we'd filled it with Beau Bell, a thick tough guy who would do that dirty work to free up Jackson to pad his tackle total even more. And remember, DQJ led the NFL in tackles AND had 3 picks. He's good.Whenever I read about Rey being a thug against the run, a guy who loves to blow up blockers, I think: That's the guy. But certainly not at 5... more like 15 if he's still there.
I like the way you think on the Brinkley pick in round 3, which makes more sense in a Steeler-ey kind of way. JJ, what separates Brinkley from Bell? Just Bell's knee and diminished quicks? Or is Brinkley better? If so, I like it, especially with an Everette Brown pick that moves Wimbley to the strong side... and a tailback in round 2.
All of this demands that we address offense (center and WR) in free agency. And probably again in round 4. Oh, and it demands that a pick comes in the door for Anderson.
Great stuff, JJ. Unlike my certifiable friend Heck, you didn't even mention Raji. Which is just lunacy with Rogers and Rubin.
The thing is, if you believe that the SILB position is the key position of need, again there are better candidates than Curry. And I believe it is one of the key positions the Browns need to upgrade in '09. The argument can be made that WILB is also a position of need... But, right now, Jackson's the best of the bunch, and you probably want to address other areas before you worry about replacing the second best player on your defense, even if he's not an ideal fit.
To your point, Maualuga is much better option for the Browns today.. The upside with Rey is you could slot him in at the strong with the knowledge that he may eventually unseat Jackson at the Mike. Let him bang around a couple of seasons, turn him loose when Jackson leaves via free agency, then re-slot the strong side backer position. It's a workable plan. And precisely what Mangini did with David Harris last season. Harris will be the starting WILB in '09, but he paid his dues in '08.
I'm not sure I could find fault with the Browns jockeying to get Maualuga.
And on Raji... no, no, no. Being the best pure NT in the draft does not make you a #1 pick. He's too short, too round, and plays with poor leverage too often. He's Babatunde Oshinowo minus 30 IQ points. Pass!
As far as Bell v. Brinkley... there isn't a lot to go on. Bell couldn't get himself on the field with the Browns in '08. And there's precious little tape from UNLV to go on. But, he has two things working against him:
1.) The knee: At his position you worry less about his mobility and more about his faith in the joint. It's a leverage thing. At the strong side backer he has to be able to face up a blocker, get his shins parallel with his forearms and explode into a guard or fullback. If he's got any misgivings about the solvency of that knee, he's going to rotate his trunk to protect it. When he does that he gives up his leverage position and is reduced to guessing which side to pivot to.
2.) Well... rumor has it that Beau isn't exactly a quick study. He's a thinker rather than a doer, and... well... his thinker isn't exactly the highest function organ in his body.
Brinkley, on the other hand, is a bit bigger guy. He's just built on a larger frame. It's subtle, but you have to look at the way Brinkley uses his extension to create separation at the point of attack. He's not a sideline to sideline defender, but is as strong LB as there is in the draft when it comes to mixing it up in the pit.
He's also shown a willingness to play his role inside the defensive scheme. He's a team guy that players and coaches love. He may not be the most athletically gifted, but he's not a liability if you confine his role. He'll likely be on the sideline on 3rd down. But he could be an asset in turning a lot of first-and-tens into second and nines.
-jj
And on Raji... no, no, no. Being the best pure NT in the draft does not make you a #1 pick. He's too short, too round, and plays with poor leverage too often. He's Babatunde Oshinowo minus 30 IQ points. Pass!
Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.
-
And on Raji... no, no, no. Being the best pure NT in the draft does not make you a #1 pick. He's too short, too round, and plays with poor leverage too often. He's Babatunde Oshinowo minus 30 IQ points. Pass!
Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.
Aloysius said:
Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.Yes, although I'm impressed with this new addition to Draftnikville, that comparison is pretty shoddy. Baba never dominated the Senior Bowl. Baba wasn't even asked to come to the Senior Bowl. I'm not even sure he was asked to come to the Shrine Game. Baba has never played a meaningful down of NFL football, has been waived by three teams, and is sitting on the Eagles practice squad.
Meanwhile, Raji is projected to be picked ahead of where Hampton (#19) and Wilfork (#21) were.
Which is why I'd compare him to Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork.
PS - I don't mind riding this Raji train solo. More room for my harem.
-
Aloysius said:
Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.Yes, although I'm impressed with this new addition to Draftnikville, that comparison is pretty shoddy. Baba never dominated the Senior Bowl. Baba wasn't even asked to come to the Senior Bowl. I'm not even sure he was asked to come to the Shrine Game. Baba has never played a meaningful down of NFL football, has been waived by three teams, and is sitting on the Eagles practice squad.
Meanwhile, Raji is projected to be picked ahead of where Hampton (#19) and Wilfork (#21) were.
Which is why I'd compare him to Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork.
PS - I don't mind riding this Raji train solo. More room for my harem.
Baba wasn't even asked to come to the Senior Bowl.
Huh? He was an invite to the 2006 senior bowl and played in it. He was viewed as the 4th best DT there. Scouting report from there was: Noted for being strong at the point of attack, he can hold up against double-teams. Looked good at Senior Bowl; plays with discipline and a desire to succeed. Career totals include 130 tackles, 30 tackles for loss, and 15 sacks. Most of his success, however, came against weaker opponents.
-
Baba struggled in one on one drills at the Senior Bowl.
-
Good discussion.
I agree a trade down would be the ideal. This draft isn't all that top heavy but offers much depth through maybe the early 3rd round. The players maybe worth the 5th pick seem to be players we won't take. Crabtree is one mentioned...I also think a few of the O-linemen would be worth the pick but I get hammered when I mention that around here...so I won't...or I just do that?
Every draft seems to produce a slot somewhere in the top 6-7 picks that seems to be the key spot where teams looking to move up feel like they need to go....and this year 5 looks like it has the chance to be that spot.
OTs usually generate a lot of interest come draft day....and this is a OT draft for the ages.
There seems to be 2-3 teams directly behind us who may be looking for line help...anybody behind them who wants one of those big OTs is going to have to move in front of them...lets hope that is where we come in!!
Good discussion.
I agree a trade down would be the ideal. This draft isn't all that top heavy but offers much depth through maybe the early 3rd round. The players maybe worth the 5th pick seem to be players we won't take. Crabtree is one mentioned...I also think a few of the O-linemen would be worth the pick but I get hammered when I mention that around here...so I won't...or I just do that?
Every draft seems to produce a slot somewhere in the top 6-7 picks that seems to be the key spot where teams looking to move up feel like they need to go....and this year 5 looks like it has the chance to be that spot.
OTs usually generate a lot of interest come draft day....and this is a OT draft for the ages.
There seems to be 2-3 teams directly behind us who may be looking for line help...anybody behind them who wants one of those big OTs is going to have to move in front of them...lets hope that is where we come in!!
Peen ...last year was the OT draft of the ages....same with Running back....Jj no answer, come on
-
And on Raji... no, no, no. Being the best pure NT in the draft does not make you a #1 pick. He's too short, too round, and plays with poor leverage too often. He's Babatunde Oshinowo minus 30 IQ points. Pass!
Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.
Aloysius said:
Completely disagree with this. I think he's more Vince Wilfork than Baba Oshinowo. Not really interested in him at 5, but I think someone's going to end up with a solid NT.Even if I'm dead wrong on Raji (which is distinctly possible)... why would you burn a #1 pick on a back up for the best player on your defense? QB is really the only position in the NFL that you can afford to draft a 1 or 2 year backup near the top of the draft.
The Browns right now have Rubin under contract and a decent chance of retaining Louis Leonard, who's shown some upside as well. It's arguably the deepest most talented position on the defense.
I just don't see it addressing it in the first round
-jj
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login