Rams fan talking draft
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I have a different take and am with a fair segment of this board that does not see a QB worth taking at #4 let alone trading up. Most of us want Watkins at #4.
As for our pick stockpile... Our FO told us last year that they really did not know what they had personnel-wise, so deferring picks until 2014 via trade made sense. As for TR I believe they were trying to get as much value as possible out of a failed experiment.
Then there's the Hoyer factor...
Now whether I and the folks who share my view are closer to where our FO is, is anybody's guess at this point.
Also, having been in Texas for decades (mostly in Houston), I think I have a feel for that organization and share your view that they will stay at #1 and take a QB.
What I am curious about the Rams fans is how big is the camp that thinks Bradford is "the guy"?
I wouldn't say "most".
I still think most of this board wants a QB at 4.
I wouldn't say "most".
I still think most of this board wants a QB at 4.
True... poorly worded on my part...
I meant that most of us that do not favor taking a QB want Sammie.
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Houston will take Clowney. I don't think there's anyway they can pass up on a defense that has Watt and Clowney opposite each other. I just hope we don't do something stupid like trade up with Houston and they get our 1st and 2nd picks. They would probably still get Clowney in that scenario and Cleveland would look worse than Indy did after we conned them with Trich
Houston will take Clowney.
... and people argue with me abut drafting Watkins into the same receiving corps as Gordon.
If Houston adopts the 4-3 there is a chance that they might draft Clowney, but I do not see that happening.
LOL... as well-o-well...@mike-h said:
I want Carlos Hyde at 4.
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I have a different take and am with a fair segment of this board that does not see a QB worth taking at #4 let alone trading up. Most of us want Watkins at #4.
As for our pick stockpile... Our FO told us last year that they really did not know what they had personnel-wise, so deferring picks until 2014 via trade made sense. As for TR I believe they were trying to get as much value as possible out of a failed experiment.
Then there's the Hoyer factor...
Now whether I and the folks who share my view are closer to where our FO is, is anybody's guess at this point.
Also having been in Texas for decades (mostly in Houston), I think I have a feel for that organization and share your view that they will stay at #1 and take a QB.
What I am curious about the Rams fans is how big is the camp that thinks Bradford is "the guy"?
I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.
But there are extremist on both sides. Some love him to death and believe he is a special franchise QB, others wanted him cut 2 years ago.
There have been tons of excuses for Bradford. Many of them are valid. Revolving door of subpar WRs and a weak OL. He was drafted into probably the worst situation of any rookie starting QB in NFL history. That 2010 team was utterly void of talent, and the 2011 teams was a disaster of injuries of record proportions. Still, Bradford hasn't raised the level of play of the people around him. He's not worth the money they are paying him for sure; every Rams fan agrees with that. But it's possible that he could still be a very good QB if he can stay on the field. But as I said, if he goes down again this year, he's done.
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I like the rams, if they don't get a nice enough offer to trade down I could see them taking Greg Robinson or possibly Watkins.
I think Houston takes a QB regardless. Just probably not at #1.
I could see this with no trades:
Houston: Clowney
Rams: Robinson
Jags: Teddy
Browns: JF/Bortles/Watkins
I do expect your rams to shop that #2 pick pretty hard though. They might get some interest from the Browns if they really want a QB and are concerned the jags will take their guy. I hope we don't trade you much if that's the case.
I like the rams, if they don't get a nice enough offer to trade down I could see them taking Greg Robinson or possibly Watkins.
I think Houston takes a QB regardless. Just probably not at #1.
I could see this with no trades:
Houston: Clowney
Rams: Robinson
Jags: Teddy
Browns: JF/Bortles/Watkins
I do expect your rams to shop that #2 pick pretty hard though. They might get some interest from the Browns if they really want a QB and are concerned the jags will take their guy. I hope we don't trade you much if that's the case.
That's seems plausible to me. The Rams could very well take Robinson at #2. Fisher's son plays for Auburn, so he has a lot of insight into Robinson.
The Rams will shop the pick hard, as you said. Les Snead has come out and said as much. And as they showed in 2012 they aren't adverse to trading down several times. I can see them going down as far as Minny. If Minny really wants Johnny Football, it will cost them 2015 first round plus other picks. And Snead has said he would like another first rounder next year. But I don't see the Rams trading down to #8 for just additional picks this year.
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Thanks for the reply...
It seems that the starting QB is as controversial in St Louis as it is in any City without a Super Bowl winning QB... no shocker there...
Good point. Even worse in a City without a winning record QB. Heck, the Dolphins are said to be unhappy with Tannehill already.
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Must tell ya Maxwell I totally envy ur situation as a rams fan. Fisher is a great coach and will lead u guys to the promise lands yet again. I totally agree with the Bradford situation. I believe make or break non of the 3 Qbs at the top of the draft will probably be as good as him. And hell if he burns u have a much better crop of Qbs to choose from next year's draft.
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Must tell ya Maxwell I totally envy ur situation as a rams fan. Fisher is a great coach and will lead u guys to the promise lands yet again. I totally agree with the Bradford situation. I believe make or break non of the 3 Qbs at the top of the draft will probably be as good as him. And hell if he burns u have a much better crop of Qbs to choose from next year's draft.
Must tell ya Maxwell I totally envy ur situation as a rams fan. Fisher is a great coach and will lead u guys to the promise lands yet again. I totally agree with the Bradford situation. I believe make or break non of the 3 Qbs at the top of the draft will probably be as good as him. And hell if he burns u have a much better crop of Qbs to choose from next year's draft.
#2 and #13?! I'm super Jelly.
and if a trade was worked out with the browns: #4, #13 and #26?! Jesus tap-dancing, titty-fucking Christ that's enviable.
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Must tell ya Maxwell I totally envy ur situation as a rams fan. Fisher is a great coach and will lead u guys to the promise lands yet again. I totally agree with the Bradford situation. I believe make or break non of the 3 Qbs at the top of the draft will probably be as good as him. And hell if he burns u have a much better crop of Qbs to choose from next year's draft.
Must tell ya Maxwell I totally envy ur situation as a rams fan. Fisher is a great coach and will lead u guys to the promise lands yet again. I totally agree with the Bradford situation. I believe make or break non of the 3 Qbs at the top of the draft will probably be as good as him. And hell if he burns u have a much better crop of Qbs to choose from next year's draft.
There are many Rams fans who have Fisher on the hot seat. They would dump him if the Rams don't win in his 3rd season.
Getting #2 was a gift from heaven. When they made that RG3 trade, many thought the Rams blew it.
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If I were the Rams I'd want Watkins if as you say Bradford has no good targets. I'd climb the ladder down, trade with the Browns since I know the Jags are going to take a QB, and maybe trade down yet again if I think I could do it and still get Watkins at say, #8. Would be a nice way to stockpile some 2nd and 3rd round picks in a prett deep draft class.
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Houston will take Clowney.
... and people argue with me abut drafting Watkins into the same receiving corps as Gordon.
If Houston adopts the 4-3 there is a chance that they might draft Clowney, but I do not see that happening.
LOL... as well-o-well...@mike-h said:
I want Carlos Hyde at 4.
... and people argue with me abut drafting Watkins into the same receiving corps as Gordon.
If Houston adopts the 4-3 there is a chance that they might draft Clowney, but I do not see that happening.
LOL... as well-o-well...
I think they'll draft him even if they stay 3-4. That dude is more athletically gifted now than either of our OLB'ers. They may start off using him like we use Kruger, with his hands mostly in the dirt. I see him becoming a consummate OLB though the likes of Aldon Smith but with a nastier rush.
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... and people argue with me abut drafting Watkins into the same receiving corps as Gordon.
If Houston adopts the 4-3 there is a chance that they might draft Clowney, but I do not see that happening.
LOL... as well-o-well...
I think they'll draft him even if they stay 3-4. That dude is more athletically gifted now than either of our OLB'ers. They may start off using him like we use Kruger, with his hands mostly in the dirt. I see him becoming a consummate OLB though the likes of Aldon Smith but with a nastier rush.
. I see him becoming a consummate OLB though the likes of Aldon Smith but with a nastier rush.
which is kind of why I want him. If Watkins is gone by #4, I really hope we take him.
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. I see him becoming a consummate OLB though the likes of Aldon Smith but with a nastier rush.
which is kind of why I want him. If Watkins is gone by #4, I really hope we take him.
too much sense. Not gonna happen. New qb with more second tier wr talent.which is kind of why I want him. If Watkins is gone by #4, I really hope we take him.
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I have a different take and am with a fair segment of this board that does not see a QB worth taking at #4 let alone trading up. Most of us want Watkins at #4.
As for our pick stockpile... Our FO told us last year that they really did not know what they had personnel-wise, so deferring picks until 2014 via trade made sense. As for TR I believe they were trying to get as much value as possible out of a failed experiment.
Then there's the Hoyer factor...
Now whether I and the folks who share my view are closer to where our FO is, is anybody's guess at this point.
Also having been in Texas for decades (mostly in Houston), I think I have a feel for that organization and share your view that they will stay at #1 and take a QB.
What I am curious about the Rams fans is how big is the camp that thinks Bradford is "the guy"?
I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.
But there are extremist on both sides. Some love him to death and believe he is a special franchise QB, others wanted him cut 2 years ago.
There have been tons of excuses for Bradford. Many of them are valid. Revolving door of subpar WRs and a weak OL. He was drafted into probably the worst situation of any rookie starting QB in NFL history. That 2010 team was utterly void of talent, and the 2011 teams was a disaster of injuries of record proportions. Still, Bradford hasn't raised the level of play of the people around him. He's not worth the money they are paying him for sure; every Rams fan agrees with that. But it's possible that he could still be a very good QB if he can stay on the field. But as I said, if he goes down again this year, he's done.
I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.
That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.
Houston may very well take Clowney, but if they don't I can see the Rams either taking him or trading with Atlanta for him. So I think Clowney is going #1 or #2.
So the first QB is going either #1 or #2. And the second QB is going to Jax at #3.
If the Browns stay at #4, they will very likely get the the third QB, or Watkins. I highly doubt you get Clowney at #4.
There are many Rams fans that want Watkins at #2, but the big argument is that he's not a physical freak. He's may measure in under 6'1" at the Combine so he's not in the AJ Green, Juio Jones class. The remaining Rams fans want either Matthews or Robinson.
Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.
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I can answer the Bradford question. The prevailing belief of Rams fans is that the team should stick with him this year. It's totally make or break for him. The major issue Rams fans have with Bradford is his durability. Can he stay healthy for more than one year in a row? He has done that yet.
That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.
Houston may very well take Clowney, but if they don't I can see the Rams either taking him or trading with Atlanta for him. So I think Clowney is going #1 or #2.
So the first QB is going either #1 or #2. And the second QB is going to Jax at #3.
If the Browns stay at #4, they will very likely get the the third QB, or Watkins. I highly doubt you get Clowney at #4.
There are many Rams fans that want Watkins at #2, but the big argument is that he's not a physical freak. He's may measure in under 6'1" at the Combine so he's not in the AJ Green, Juio Jones class. The remaining Rams fans want either Matthews or Robinson.
Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.
That's the major problem a lot of Browns fans have with drafting Manziel- especially trading up to get him. He's been dinged already in college, and his running style is RGIII reckless.
Hard to say what the Browns FO will do at this point. (Unless Bridgewater is still on the board @ #4) Not inconceivable if they don't see anyone they like, we could be in a trade-down scenario. They will certainly entertain offers, especial if a future first is in the mix.
What constitutes "a lot"? By my count, I see about four that are flat out against Manziel, regardless of trading.
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Thanks.
I totally agree with you that we don't know who is going 1st overall yet.
My thought on that is Houston won't trade down because they need a QB and even if they decided not to go with a QB with the first pick I don't think they would trade down and risk losing Clowney. Houston doesn't need an LT or a WR, so a trade down to get Matthews, Robinson or Watkins doesn't make sense. If they trade down it would be for a defensive player, and it doesn't seem likely that they would pass on Clowney to take Barr or Mack just to pick up extra picks. I don't believe Houston will trade with the Browns to let the Browns pick a QB. Houston could very well be stuck at #4 and miss out on the QB they want as well as miss out on Clowney. Of course, this is all predicated on the belief that Clowney will emerge as the clear best defensive player in the draft. This will clear itself up after the Combine, and I expect Clowney will emerge as the guy.
So regardless of whether Houston goes with a QB or Clowney they are staying at #1. If they go QB at #1, it's all a guess for months as to who it is. That's why we will all have to wait until draft day for any trades.
While Houston controls what QB goes first and to who, they can only control one of them and may pass on all of them. So the odds are very high that the QB the Browns want will be available to them if they trade up with the Rams.
One potential problem for the Browns if they stay put at #4 is that the Rams may trade with Minny, and Minny takes a QB at #2, then Jax takes a QB at #3.
Do you have any thoughts on this?
And hopefully this Rams fan is adding some new perspective to this topic. thanks again.
I'll be dumbfounded if the first three picks of the draft are all used on a QB. one of the best QB classes in recent memory (2012) didn't have 3 QBs selected in the top five, so I can't bring myself to believe that this class will outdo 2012 in that respect.
I'm not concerned in the least that one of the top 3 QBs will be available at 4, the only issue is whether or not the Browns FO will be willing to stay at 4 to select a QB who isn't their top prospect.
Some draft experts are saying that none of the QBs available this year are deserving of a top 5 pick, I disagree, but the Rams certainly don't have the same leverage they had in 2012.
I'll be dumbfounded if the first three picks of the draft are all used on a QB. one of the best QB classes in recent memory (2012) didn't have 3 QBs selected in the top five, so I can't bring myself to believe that this class will outdo 2012 in that respect.
I'm not concerned in the least that one of the top 3 QBs will be available at 4, the only issue is whether or not the Browns FO will be willing to stay at 4 to select a QB who isn't their top prospect.
Some draft experts are saying that none of the QBs available this year are deserving of a top 5 pick, I disagree, but the Rams certainly don't have the same leverage they had in 2012.
I could see it happening, though not a great possibility. My feeling is if we have a target, don't hope he is there. Just go ahead and do it. Live or die with that decision rather than allow other teams to dictate who you select.
That also makes me believe if we do trade, it will be for the #1 pick, and not the #2 pick. Houston has said they would like to drop as has St.Louis. That will bring some discount, especially since we sit at #4. Moving to #1 won't cost that much more then moving to #2. I think the only way we trade with the Rams is if we have Manziel and Bridgewater rated evenly and don't really care which guy we get.
We need to play that angle because #4 is a good trade down point for either team. Both will still be able to get a target player and pick something up in return. Our other 1st rounder will be the chip, but I wouldn't rule out us getting something else in return....maybe a 4th rounder. I don't see the market being such that will make it like it was for RGIII. I think it is more of a buyers market this year with the top two teams seeking to drop.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Thanks for the reply...
It seems that the starting QB is as controversial in St Louis as it is in any City without a Super Bowl winning QB... no shocker there...
Good point. Even worse in a City without a winning record QB. Heck, the Dolphins are said to be unhappy with Tannehill already.
Heck, the Dolphins are said to be unhappy with Tannehill already.
Based upon his lack of progress, I'd be concerned, too. I know Miami had personnel "issues", but we in Cleveland have learned that there are no excuses.
Brilliant trade...There are many Rams fans who have Fisher on the hot seat. They would dump him if the Rams don't win in his 3rd season.
Getting #2 was a gift from heaven. When they made that RG3 trade, many thought the Rams blew it.
As for Jeff... I love the guy, but understand the impatience. It's not just a lack of progress at St. Louis, it's also his TN resume where while relevant for a period, they only really contended one year.
I think they'll draft him even if they stay 3-4. That dude is more athletically gifted now than either of our OLB'ers. They may start off using him like we use Kruger, with his hands mostly in the dirt. I see him becoming a consummate OLB though the likes of Aldon Smith but with a nastier rush.
Could be, but standing up even a great athlete is a far from certain transition. Just ask Mario Williams... which means I guess you could ask Pettine.
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I'll be dumbfounded if the first three picks of the draft are all used on a QB. one of the best QB classes in recent memory (2012) didn't have 3 QBs selected in the top five, so I can't bring myself to believe that this class will outdo 2012 in that respect.
I'm not concerned in the least that one of the top 3 QBs will be available at 4, the only issue is whether or not the Browns FO will be willing to stay at 4 to select a QB who isn't their top prospect.
Some draft experts are saying that none of the QBs available this year are deserving of a top 5 pick, I disagree, but the Rams certainly don't have the same leverage they had in 2012.
I could see it happening, though not a great possibility. My feeling is if we have a target, don't hope he is there. Just go ahead and do it. Live or die with that decision rather than allow other teams to dictate who you select.
That also makes me believe if we do trade, it will be for the #1 pick, and not the #2 pick. Houston has said they would like to drop as has St.Louis. That will bring some discount, especially since we sit at #4. Moving to #1 won't cost that much more then moving to #2. I think the only way we trade with the Rams is if we have Manziel and Bridgewater rated evenly and don't really care which guy we get.
We need to play that angle because #4 is a good trade down point for either team. Both will still be able to get a target player and pick something up in return. Our other 1st rounder will be the chip, but I wouldn't rule out us getting something else in return....maybe a 4th rounder. I don't see the market being such that will make it like it was for RGIII. I think it is more of a buyers market this year with the top two teams seeking to drop.
I could see (3 QBs in the first 3 picks) happening, though not a great possibility.
Ditto...
The draft can have elements of a lemming mentality to it. Once a run on a position starts, it continues for a while. And when teams start trading into positions to continue the run "it's on"... OT seems to be a favorite Round 1 run position. I think that the rookie pay structure makes it seem even more likely that a QB run is in the offing.
That said runs are more common in what are now the Day 2 rounds (there's almost always a CB run at some point), but it has and can happen on Day 1.
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I'll be pissed if we trade any of our first 5 picks. We have 5 of the first 83 picks, we should be able to get quality players without selling the farm to move up.
I'll be pissed if we trade any of our first 5 picks. We have 5 of the first 83 picks, we should be able to get quality players without selling the farm to move up.
I'm with you there Bob. I'd bet that at least one of the top for quarterbacks will still be there at 26. Probably somebody in the second or third round with as much potential, and a better shot at success with three or four ass kicking pics on the team before him. I can see reasons to take any of the four top quarterbacks, possibly even 5. Also the risk of taking any of them. Of course whoever they pick will be my guy, but only after Brian Hoyer proves he can't.
Ram guy, you drafted Sam Bradford pretty high so it's going to be tough to write him off. That's the problem with a high pick quarterback. If we got somebody in the third round we wouldn't freak out starting somebody else.
WSS
WSS
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Just to summarize...
The problem for the Rams in this draft is that there is no once in a decade guy at a position of need for them, only Clowney. Plus, there are 2 OTs and a WR that really good but not at the Orlando Pace or Megatron level.
Thing is, SOMEBODY has to go #1 overall. It appears that it will be one of 4 guys. Those 3 QBs or Clowney. I mean, even if Houston trades down like this guy is talking about, SOME TEAM has to take SOMEBODY. And I don't believe it will be anybody but one of those 4 guys. So it doesn't matter to us, really who has the pick. We just scratch a QB or Clowney off the board.
Does anyone really believe the Rams aren't trading down? With 3 of those 4 potential #1 picks still on the board, some team will want one of them. Cleveland, Minny, Atlanta, and Oakland are good candidates for a trade. I gotta believe the Rams are trading with one of them.
Then Jax will take either a QB or Clowney.
So after the first 3 picks, I think 2 QBs and Clowney will be off the board.
The only question is whether Watkins or one of the OTs goes in the top 3. And the way I see it, the only way that happens is if they go in the #2 spot to the Rams, which I doubt.
So if the Rams trade out of #2 as many expect, and they don't trade with Cleveland, then the Browns will be very likely down to the last of the 3 top QBs to pick. That could be a big problem for them if they determine there is a guy they really want ahead of the others. That's the way I see now anyway.
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