Incognito Reaction: I Don't Get It
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This appears to go far beyond an Incognito / Martin thing. it really appears as though the behaviors were well known by the coaching staff and best case scenario ignored and possibly even encouraged by some. Take this behavior into any other workplace and MANY people are fired and quite a few are involved in lawsuits stemming from their behavior.
I get that football is a business full of alpha males but there are ways to bust each others balls and act like "men" without all the crap that occured in and out of the Miami lockerroom. These things need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. They need to send a message that harrasment is unacceptable. it is 100% no different than any other work envirnonment in that regard.
Regarding comparing it to assault, drug charges etc. I do not disagree those should be dealth with more harshly however drawing comparisons from one to the other means nothing. They are all issues and all need dealt with.
For those that will pile on and call me or some of the involved parties pussies for this stance you clearly have yet to figure out what being a real man means.
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What has happened here is that things that have gone on since time immemorial suddenly become no-nos when someone complains about it.
Take Bountygate: every freaking NFL team in history practically probably had some kind of similar bounty program, but when it makes big news the Saints become the team to take the brunt.
Same here: every lockerroom since the days of Fritz Pollard had their hazing and juvenile behavior, but here someone took offense to it and took their ball and went home and it became big news.
Now, as far as I am concerned, these professional athletes CAN do without playing for bounties or acting like juvenile delinquents and bullies...but the fact is what these guys did is nothing new.
But there is nothing wrong with getting rid of this stuff and having these well paid players act like professionals.
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Right, that is the stance that people are taking (jcam), but again, (jcam) you are deflecting the issue I'm actually raising. I already agreed that what happened with the Dolphins was bad. Do whatever you like to them. Punish them as harshly as you like. Hang all of them and their families from yard arms if you like. But that doesn't answer the actual question I'm asking.
Why is THIS situation generating such a disproportionately negative reaction compared to actual crimes committed by NFL players? Why is Richie Incognito "a cancer" who should be "kicked off the team"/"never allowed to play football in the NFL again", but everyone just kind of grumbles for a minute and then forgets about it when an actual domestic violence case or drug case goes by?
Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no reason to support Incognito or to side against Martin. I'm just pointing out how disproportionate the reactions to this are compared to what actually transpired.
If they are all issues that all need dealt with like you are claiming (and I agree), then why are we spending so much time focusing on the name-calling aspect and so little time focusing on the more serious (actually criminal) actions? Let's start with the serious ones and worry about name-calling when we get the actual assaults and rapes cleared up.
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What is being suggested...picking up Incognito and putting him in the Brown's locker room?
I know that's not being suggested but it's an easy way to make the 'Incognito types are not good for locker rooms or for the NFL's business model' point.
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Seems like they did normal jib jab. It sounds bad, but I'm sure it's taken entirely out of context.
My locker room in high school had lots of name calling, poking fun, etc. If I just quoted it over the internet it'd sound terrible. If I said it in context it wouldn't sound so bad.
If Martin thought things went too far he should have told them.
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Right, that is the stance that people are taking (jcam), but again, (jcam) you are deflecting the issue I'm actually raising. I already agreed that what happened with the Dolphins was bad. Do whatever you like to them. Punish them as harshly as you like. Hang all of them and their families from yard arms if you like. But that doesn't answer the actual question I'm asking.
Why is THIS situation generating such a disproportionately negative reaction compared to actual crimes committed by NFL players? Why is Richie Incognito "a cancer" who should be "kicked off the team"/"never allowed to play football in the NFL again", but everyone just kind of grumbles for a minute and then forgets about it when an actual domestic violence case or drug case goes by?
Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no reason to support Incognito or to side against Martin. I'm just pointing out how disproportionate the reactions to this are compared to what actually transpired.
If they are all issues that all need dealt with like you are claiming (and I agree), then why are we spending so much time focusing on the name-calling aspect and so little time focusing on the more serious (actually criminal) actions? Let's start with the serious ones and worry about name-calling when we get the actual assaults and rapes cleared up.
Right, that is the stance that people are taking (jcam), but again, (jcam) you are deflecting the issue I'm actually raising. I already agreed that what happened with the Dolphins was bad. Do whatever you like to them. Punish them as harshly as you like. Hang all of them and their families from yard arms if you like. But that doesn't answer the actual question I'm asking.
Why is THIS situation generating such a disproportionately negative reaction compared to actual crimes committed by NFL players? Why is Richie Incognito "a cancer" who should be "kicked off the team"/"never allowed to play football in the NFL again", but everyone just kind of grumbles for a minute and then forgets about it when an actual domestic violence case or drug case goes by?
Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no reason to support Incognito or to side against Martin. I'm just pointing out how disproportionate the reactions to this are compared to what actually transpired.
If they are all issues that all need dealt with like you are claiming (and I agree), then why are we spending so much time focusing on the name-calling aspect and so little time focusing on the more serious (actually criminal) actions? Let's start with the serious ones and worry about name-calling when we get the actual assaults and rapes cleared up.
I actually think you and I are on the same page on this. What I said relevant to that is "Regarding comparing it to assault, drug charges etc. I do not disagree those should be dealt with more harshly however drawing comparisons from one to the other means nothing. They are all issues and all need dealt with." The rest of the answer is more media driven as to what sells and also partially the answer lies in the evolution or our societies views on different crimes. I think to some degree the general public is used to and desensitized to NFL players who punch their girlfriends or assault someone at a club. Not saying its right its clearly wrong but its "old" news.
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Martin is a big pussy.
I'd take Incognito on our team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Right. I agree completely, Jcam. But I'm suggesting that as a society we not embrace the idea that "what happened today is more important because it happened today." I'm suggesting that we not lose perspective on what is actually more serious just because we've heard it a number of times before. No one is on the screen screaming (Chris Carter was literally screaming about Richie Incognito) about Ray Rice today. But isn't an actual criminal assault charge/arrest a little more serious than some name-calling? I think that perspective has been lost here, and instead of embracing that, we should be reminding ourselves to correct it.
If the media surrounding the NFL was at all responsible, instead of each individual sportscaster ranting about how this was the worst thing they'd ever heard, they should have said something like, "This is unfortunate, and it shouldn't be happening, but, let's be honest, there are more serious player-behavior issues in the league that require more attention than this does."
Oh, and for the record, I'd be ecstatic to have Incognito on the team if they could get him at a super-discounted price because of all of this. The guy is a decent O-lineman, and now he's got something to prove.
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Martin is a big pussy.
I'd take Incognito on our team.
Some of these guys have been dishing it out their whole life and can't take it when it comes back to them. I'm sure this locker room was no different than his highschool or college locker rooms.
Not saying it's justified. But you can't even get away with saying things like that at McDonalds.
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I didn't mean for this thread to be about whether Martin or Incognito was wrong, and I don't think that conversation is useful at this point. The point I was trying to make was that the amount and intensity of negative attention this situation has gotten has been grossly disproportionate to the seriousness of what actually happened (in comparison to other player behavior issues).
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This has been going on in football locker rooms forever. Then Jonathan Martin came along. He's from the coddled millennium generation and he was the first one to squeal.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be around a guy like Incognito in a work environment .... Unless my work environment was the effing NFL. Then I would embrace it ... Because I was in the NFL! It belongs there. It's tough guys being idiots. Martin should take his Stanford degree and start a nice career as a CPA ... Because doesn't fit in the NFL.
Not a fan of RI, but we all know the NFL is full of guys like that, and they are accepted and embraced ... It is Martin that is out of place.
Go find another place.
Z
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Our society has become so focused on protecting everyone now that I feel like we've eroded people's ability to deal with adversity.
Some of you older guys may remember when you were young, we used to have a saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." Now it has become "If someone says something you don't like, it has to become a huge federal case and no amount of overreaction is inappropriate."
I am completely against severe bullying or hazing that results in physical abuse. I am also against genuine racism in any form. I couldn't be a bigger supporter of gay rights than I am. But there has to be a line at which it's okay to just deal with small negative things without spazzing out. When this story first broke, I thought something awful had happened. I thought a bunch of guys held Martin down and raped him with a broom handle or beat him with a sock full of nickels. The lunchroom story came out and we were told, "Oh, no, that's not the extent of it. There were many more very terrible things that happened." So we waited. And, in the end, it came down to the fact that some guys in the Dolphins locker room were making fun of each other.
I am (by most accounts) a pretty liberal and compassionate guy, but, seriously, what happened over the past 20 years?! I played sports in school and I was in the military, and during those times, I would have PRAYED for the day when all of these things were the worst things that happened to me THAT DAY, let alone over a period of years. Seriously, people? Isn't there a danger to not being able to tolerate ANY negativity in your life at all? Do we honestly want people to be unable to cope with any diversity without a lot of attention and assistance from others?
The more we completely sympathize with everyone who considers themselves a victim, the broader the river of victims will become. We're not making the situation better by being overly sensitive to these types of things; we're making it worse.
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Right, that is the stance that people are taking (jcam), but again, (jcam) you are deflecting the issue I'm actually raising. I already agreed that what happened with the Dolphins was bad. Do whatever you like to them. Punish them as harshly as you like. Hang all of them and their families from yard arms if you like. But that doesn't answer the actual question I'm asking.
Why is THIS situation generating such a disproportionately negative reaction compared to actual crimes committed by NFL players? Why is Richie Incognito "a cancer" who should be "kicked off the team"/"never allowed to play football in the NFL again", but everyone just kind of grumbles for a minute and then forgets about it when an actual domestic violence case or drug case goes by?
Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no reason to support Incognito or to side against Martin. I'm just pointing out how disproportionate the reactions to this are compared to what actually transpired.
If they are all issues that all need dealt with like you are claiming (and I agree), then why are we spending so much time focusing on the name-calling aspect and so little time focusing on the more serious (actually criminal) actions? Let's start with the serious ones and worry about name-calling when we get the actual assaults and rapes cleared up.
Why is THIS situation generating such a disproportionately negative reaction compared to actual crimes committed by NFL players? Why is Richie Incognito "a cancer" who should be "kicked off the team"/"never allowed to play football in the NFL again", but everyone just kind of grumbles for a minute and then forgets about it when an actual domestic violence case or drug case goes by?
I'd venture for two reasons;
1)The whole situation was weird and attention grabbing from the start. NFL players driving their own teammate to walk away, unusual in itself, then people were taken aback by the way Richie and Martin talked to each other.
2)Richie has a history. Suspensions, fights, clashes with players, coaches, fans. Very polarizing individual.
Perhaps drug related arrests or domestic violence cases should warrant stronger reactions, but IMO it's like hearing a musician or actor OD'ed last night. Commonplace enough for us to become desensitized to it.
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Martin is a big pussy. He should have taken his lumps and learned from the tougher players.
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That explains the interest in the situation, and I agree with you, Motley. Hell, I obviously find it to be an interesting situation. That doesn't explain to me why people are so upset about it, though. Maybe that's just me; maybe I'm just not seeing it. But to me, saying, "Whoa, that's new/odd/different/strange," is different than saying, "This is the worst thing I've ever heard in my entire life!" Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but if you think back to that first Sunday after the story broke, I'm not exaggerating that much. Both the media/sportscasters and the public were insane with rage about this. It could have been a news story about how strange it was. It didn't have to be a story about how unbelievably hellish it was or how Richie Incognito was the worst person on earth. Like I said, people like Chris Carter (I forget who else,... maybe Ditka), were all veins bulging and practically spitting on the camera. It was completely unnecessary and a HUGE overreaction to a guy getting called some names.
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Martin is a big pussy. He should have taken his lumps and learned from the tougher players.
Martin is a big pussy. He should have taken his lumps and learned from the tougher players.
Exactly.
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martin IS the little bitch in this situation and i smell a lawsuit coming from here to miami.
he doesn't like to work hard, can't play for shit and when the coaches ask his OL 'brotherhood' to try and toughen up he contemplates suicide?
NFL, get out your checkbook. martin will never play again but he'll cash out just fine.
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no on Incognito...despite the fact Martin was/is soft..I wouldnt touch Incognito on this team with Ballpeens dick...he's a cancer and in the twilight of his career anyway...no thanks..what this team has absorbed lately. We dont need anymore distractions.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Martin is a big pussy.
I'd take Incognito on our team.
1) I agree.Martin's correct response if Ritchie was "harrassing" him should have been- "Stop that shit, because the next time you try it, I'll kick you in the nuts."
2) Nope, those in the know describe Incognito as a "Meathead", Also, voted as "the dirtiest player in the NFL" doesn't win any points with me. Alpha males in the lockerroom? OK, sorry, No Flaming assholes- likes to sexually harrass women on golf courses too, by all accounts
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