Jonathan Paul Manziel
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He went back to the Vikings.
yeah and did shit again.
Zombo said:
Lost three Super Bowls = Made three Super Bowls.
Tarkenton 3 Browns 0
Z
jim kelly 4 browns 0
dan marino 1 browns 0
need i go on?
so i guess the point is a great QB does not make a team great or a sure thing.
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After all of the debating, I've come to this conclusion:
I want the Browns to pick fourth.
If the first three picks are all quarterbacks, then GREAT. I'll take Sammy Watkins or Jade Clowney (!). Pick up a potential QB later in the draft and ride Hoyer for another year and see what happens.
But if Manziel is available: You do NOT pass on him. It's a risk (yes!), but BOOM potential is precisely what this team requires.
Think of it this way... If the Browns pass on Manziel and he becomes a superstar, then it's a big miss for a club that can ill afford it. If the Browns TAKE Manziel and he busts - it was a risk that didn't pay off, but they likely managed some solid picks in the rest of the draft to build off of and there's plenty of opportunity to take another swing in future drafts.
If they trade UP and Manziel busts... It cost them THAT pick and likely two others. Too big of a mistake to risk it. Stay at four and let the player come to them.
But if Manziel is available: You do NOT pass on him. It's a risk (yes!), but BOOM potential is precisely what this team requires.
According to Tony Rizzo on The Really Big Show, he "talked" to people close to Ray Farmer and there is 90% chance they will NOT be drafting Manziel. Sorry to burst people's bubbles, but then again, you never know what will happen. Personally I think not picking Manziel is consistent with what Farmer has been saying and what the Chiefs did with their draft picks while Farmer was there.
Think of it this way... If the Browns pass on Manziel and he becomes a superstar, then it's a big miss for a club that can ill afford it. If the Browns TAKE Manziel and he busts - it was a risk that didn't pay off, but they likely managed some solid picks in the rest of the draft to build off of and there's plenty of opportunity to take another swing in future drafts.
Manziel is more likely to be a bust in Cleveland than he would be in Houston, so I don't buy this logic. In other words, his success somewhere else doesn't mean he'd have succeeded in Cleveland. In my opinion, the safest QB at this position is Bridgewater, and if he's not available, I would either take BPA or trade down with the Vikings so they can pick a QB and we can pick up Watkins at #8.
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After all of the debating, I've come to this conclusion:
I want the Browns to pick fourth.
If the first three picks are all quarterbacks, then GREAT. I'll take Sammy Watkins or Jade Clowney (!). Pick up a potential QB later in the draft and ride Hoyer for another year and see what happens.
But if Manziel is available: You do NOT pass on him. It's a risk (yes!), but BOOM potential is precisely what this team requires.
Think of it this way... If the Browns pass on Manziel and he becomes a superstar, then it's a big miss for a club that can ill afford it. If the Browns TAKE Manziel and he busts - it was a risk that didn't pay off, but they likely managed some solid picks in the rest of the draft to build off of and there's plenty of opportunity to take another swing in future drafts.
If they trade UP and Manziel busts... It cost them THAT pick and likely two others. Too big of a mistake to risk it. Stay at four and let the player come to them.
...
After all of the debating, I've come to this conclusion:
I want the Browns to pick fourth.
If the first three picks are all quarterbacks, then GREAT. I'll take Sammy Watkins or Jade Clowney (!). Pick up a potential QB later in the draft and ride Hoyer for another year and see what happens.
But if Manziel is available: You do NOT pass on him. It's a risk (yes!), but BOOM potential is precisely what this team requires.
Think of it this way... If the Browns pass on Manziel and he becomes a superstar, then it's a big miss for a club that can ill afford it. If the Browns TAKE Manziel and he busts - it was a risk that didn't pay off, but they likely managed some solid picks in the rest of the draft to build off of and there's plenty of opportunity to take another swing in future drafts.
If they trade UP and Manziel busts... It cost them THAT pick and likely two others. Too big of a mistake to risk it. Stay at four and let the player come to them.
bullshit.
if they miss on a QB with their first or second pick we will go down in history as having more QBs than any other team in a 14 year period that have all been busts. how can you say it won't set us back or it's no big deal? holmgren's pick of both mccoy and weeden set us back a decade and you're advocating doing the same thing? hell let the vikings trade up and swap picks with us for a christian ponder the 3rd and let them be the laughing stock when julius peppers plants manziel into the astroturf in his home dome.
farmer looks pretty smart to me and all of these so-called top 5 QBs look like a dumb move for a defensive player turned GM with a DC turned HC.
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Nobody tips there hand before the draft. They will try and mislead you, confuse you, etc. Hell, they do trades when the clock is running on a particular draftee. It's all bullshit.
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...
After all of the debating, I've come to this conclusion:
I want the Browns to pick fourth.
If the first three picks are all quarterbacks, then GREAT. I'll take Sammy Watkins or Jade Clowney (!). Pick up a potential QB later in the draft and ride Hoyer for another year and see what happens.
But if Manziel is available: You do NOT pass on him. It's a risk (yes!), but BOOM potential is precisely what this team requires.
Think of it this way... If the Browns pass on Manziel and he becomes a superstar, then it's a big miss for a club that can ill afford it. If the Browns TAKE Manziel and he busts - it was a risk that didn't pay off, but they likely managed some solid picks in the rest of the draft to build off of and there's plenty of opportunity to take another swing in future drafts.
If they trade UP and Manziel busts... It cost them THAT pick and likely two others. Too big of a mistake to risk it. Stay at four and let the player come to them.
bullshit.
if they miss on a QB with their first or second pick we will go down in history as having more QBs than any other team in a 14 year period that have all been busts. how can you say it won't set us back or it's no big deal? holmgren's pick of both mccoy and weeden set us back a decade and you're advocating doing the same thing? hell let the vikings trade up and swap picks with us for a christian ponder the 3rd and let them be the laughing stock when julius peppers plants manziel into the astroturf in his home dome.
farmer looks pretty smart to me and all of these so-called top 5 QBs look like a dumb move for a defensive player turned GM with a DC turned HC.
bullshit.
if they miss on a QB with their first or second pick we will go down in history as having more QBs than any other team in a 14 year period that have all been busts. how can you say it won't set us back or it's no big deal? holmgren's pick of both mccoy and weeden set us back a decade and you're advocating doing the same thing? hell let the vikings trade up and swap picks with us for a christian ponder the 3rd and let them be the laughing stock when julius peppers plants manziel into the astroturf in his home dome.
farmer looks pretty smart to me and all of these so-called top 5 QBs look like a dumb move for a defensive player turned GM with a DC turned HC.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
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bullshit.
if they miss on a QB with their first or second pick we will go down in history as having more QBs than any other team in a 14 year period that have all been busts. how can you say it won't set us back or it's no big deal? holmgren's pick of both mccoy and weeden set us back a decade and you're advocating doing the same thing? hell let the vikings trade up and swap picks with us for a christian ponder the 3rd and let them be the laughing stock when julius peppers plants manziel into the astroturf in his home dome.
farmer looks pretty smart to me and all of these so-called top 5 QBs look like a dumb move for a defensive player turned GM with a DC turned HC.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
People either think Hoyer os the answer or anyone we get in the second or third can be the next Kaepernick/Wilson/Dalton/Foles. I dont buy it. Were in a position now to get the guy we think is the best available....which is exactly what we have to do (While we can). My biggest fear is ignoring the position in the draft then have Hoyer be the best hes capable of being (mediocre), and winning 7 or 8 games the next three seasons while all our pro bowlers leave for greener pastures (teams with better QB situations). If you dont think Hoyer can be a top 10 QB (does anyone REALLY believe that), we need to add someone we think can be. Otherwise, were rebuilding again in three years.I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
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Kudos DaBuckeye on a well-made and reasonable point. I don't know if I agree with it 100% (because I don't necessarily think a 1st round QB is a guarantee either), but I definitely don't disagree with it. Hoyer most likely is not the answer, and the chances of getting exactly the right guy in the 3rd or 4th round are slim. People like to look at successful picks in those rounds and act like teams were depending on those QB picks the way we would be depending on the QB we're picking in the draft pick this year. It's like the "Chud started Hoyer" argument. You can't look at it in hindsight and act like it was intentional and it was the master plan all along. In at least some of those cases, those teams took a guy they thought had some potential, and he worked out, but they (some of them) didn't pick him with the insistence, "this guy is our future!".
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Shitty fans... Hoyer wears brown and orange and is proud of it. Seems like everyone on Johnny Streetballs nutsack have to put Hoyer down when they hype up their college love affair with someone who doesn't even wear brown and orange and have proven nothing. Real brownsfans would never down a player who hasn't earned it like Weedone did. I'll say Hoyer isn't the answer when he proves he's not. I could care less who they draft but even if i did, i wouldn't put down a browns player to hype him.
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Shitty fans... Hoyer wears brown and orange and is proud of it. Seems like everyone on Johnny Streetballs nutsack have to put Hoyer down when they hype up their college love affair with someone who doesn't even wear brown and orange and have proven nothing. Real brownsfans would never down a player who hasn't earned it like Weedone did. I'll say Hoyer isn't the answer when he proves he's not. I could care less who they draft but even if i did, i wouldn't put down a browns player to hype him.
I didnt down Hoyer. What if I told you Weeden was just named the starter next year? Youd probably flip out. All I said is I dont believe Hoyer will ever be a top 10 QB in this league. The guy is an undrafted journeyman, who couldnt beat out Weeden or Campbell in camp. He came in and played decent-good in two games. TWO. I absolutely want Hoyer on the roster next year to compete with whoever we bring in. All Im saying is that we HAVE to bring someone in, and we're in a position to bring the QB on the top of OUR draft board.Shitty fans... Hoyer wears brown and orange and is proud of it. Seems like everyone on Johnny Streetballs nutsack have to put Hoyer down when they hype up their college love affair with someone who doesn't even wear brown and orange and have proven nothing. Real brownsfans would never down a player who hasn't earned it like Weedone did. I'll say Hoyer isn't the answer when he proves he's not. I could care less who they draft but even if i did, i wouldn't put down a browns player to hype him.
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If you told me Weedone was starting this year... i would be pissed off till 2015.
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Kudos DaBuckeye on a well-made and reasonable point. I don't know if I agree with it 100% (because I don't necessarily think a 1st round QB is a guarantee either), but I definitely don't disagree with it. Hoyer most likely is not the answer, and the chances of getting exactly the right guy in the 3rd or 4th round are slim. People like to look at successful picks in those rounds and act like teams were depending on those QB picks the way we would be depending on the QB we're picking in the draft pick this year. It's like the "Chud started Hoyer" argument. You can't look at it in hindsight and act like it was intentional and it was the master plan all along. In at least some of those cases, those teams took a guy they thought had some potential, and he worked out, but they (some of them) didn't pick him with the insistence, "this guy is our future!".
I think a lot of it is pure luck. I guarantee the 49ers didnt have Kaepernick at the top of their draft board, as with Foles and the Eagles. They were all probably disappointed when their guy was taken haha. I really hope Hoyer is the answer, and whoever we draft just becomes trade bait, but we HAVE to take the guy we think has the best shot.Kudos DaBuckeye on a well-made and reasonable point. I don't know if I agree with it 100% (because I don't necessarily think a 1st round QB is a guarantee either), but I definitely don't disagree with it. Hoyer most likely is not the answer, and the chances of getting exactly the right guy in the 3rd or 4th round are slim. People like to look at successful picks in those rounds and act like teams were depending on those QB picks the way we would be depending on the QB we're picking in the draft pick this year. It's like the "Chud started Hoyer" argument. You can't look at it in hindsight and act like it was intentional and it was the master plan all along. In at least some of those cases, those teams took a guy they thought had some potential, and he worked out, but they (some of them) didn't pick him with the insistence, "this guy is our future!".
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If you told me Weedone was starting this year... i would be pissed off till 2015.
this is how you should feel if Hoyer is also. I would be.If you told me Weedone was starting this year... i would be pissed off till 2015.
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this is how you should feel if Hoyer is also. I would be.If you told me Weedone was starting this year... i would be pissed off till 2015.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
this is how you should feel if Hoyer is also. I would be.
I wouldn't cause that would mean our new rookie gets to sit for awhile. I'm not the only Hoyer homer, in a vote Hoyer had almost double the votes as these college guys. http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/3874/poll-results-fans-strongly-behind-hoyer-in-14
Fans want him for 2014 cause they wanna see more of him or because they believe a rookie should sit and learn first. I want him to start this year for both reasons.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
this is how you should feel if Hoyer is also. I would be.
I wouldn't cause that would mean our new rookie gets to sit for awhile. I'm not the only Hoyer homer, in a vote Hoyer had almost double the votes as these college guys. http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/3874/poll-results-fans-strongly-behind-hoyer-in-14
Fans want him for 2014 cause they wanna see more of him or because they believe a rookie should sit and learn first. I want him to start this year for both reasons.
ok, I already said I want Hoyer to compete with the rook. I meant if they said Hoyer was the starter and we didnt add a guy.I wouldn't cause that would mean our new rookie gets to sit for awhile. I'm not the only Hoyer homer, in a vote Hoyer had almost double the votes as these college guys. http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/3874/poll-results-fans-strongly-behind-hoyer-in-14
Fans want him for 2014 cause they wanna see more of him or because they believe a rookie should sit and learn first. I want him to start this year for both reasons.
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@mike-h said:
There are no words to describe how funny this is.
Glad I could bring some joy to your life Mr Hunt.
WSS
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@mike-h said:
Tarkenton is too small at 6'0, 190lbs, there's no way he lasts 18 years and barely misses a start in the NFL. His style of scrambling is reckless, he needs to learn how to slide and play in the pocket better.
a third round pick who lost three superbowls, two blowouts.
got traded from the team that drafted him because his coach didn't like his 'scrambling around' routine.
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Shitty fans... Hoyer wears brown and orange and is proud of it. Seems like everyone on Johnny Streetballs nutsack have to put Hoyer down when they hype up their college love affair with someone who doesn't even wear brown and orange and have proven nothing. Real brownsfans would never down a player who hasn't earned it like Weedone did. I'll say Hoyer isn't the answer when he proves he's not. I could care less who they draft but even if i did, i wouldn't put down a browns player to hype him.
Shitty fans... Hoyer wears brown and orange and is proud of it. Seems like everyone on Johnny Streetballs nutsack have to put Hoyer down when they hype up their college love affair with someone who doesn't even wear brown and orange and have proven nothing. Real brownsfans would never down a player who hasn't earned it like Weedone did. I'll say Hoyer isn't the answer when he proves he's not. I could care less who they draft but even if i did, i wouldn't put down a browns player to hype him.
I don't believe I put Hoyer down. I like him. Would love it if he was the answer in Cleveland.
But I don't believe he is. I think he's an adequate guy to get the team maybe through a rough patch or to help transition in another young upstart QB.
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He went back to the Vikings.
yeah and did shit again.
Zombo said:
Lost three Super Bowls = Made three Super Bowls.
Tarkenton 3 Browns 0
Z
jim kelly 4 browns 0
dan marino 1 browns 0
need i go on?
so i guess the point is a great QB does not make a team great or a sure thing.
yeah and did shit again.
jim kelly 4 browns 0
dan marino 1 browns 0
need i go on?
so i guess the point is a great QB does not make a team great or a sure thing.
Not sure what your angle is here. I was defending Tarkenton. You seemed to be mocking his accomplishments. Are you saying going to the Super Bowl three times is not a worthy career highlight because they lost the game?
Z
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stfu everybody. i know how good tark and marino and kelly were, hell we had glimpses of greatness with flippin kosar.
everyone was bringing up the fact that JF reminds them of tark and how great he was. yeah he was great, but put him on the list of great players that never won the big one.
that's all.
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bullshit.
if they miss on a QB with their first or second pick we will go down in history as having more QBs than any other team in a 14 year period that have all been busts. how can you say it won't set us back or it's no big deal? holmgren's pick of both mccoy and weeden set us back a decade and you're advocating doing the same thing? hell let the vikings trade up and swap picks with us for a christian ponder the 3rd and let them be the laughing stock when julius peppers plants manziel into the astroturf in his home dome.
farmer looks pretty smart to me and all of these so-called top 5 QBs look like a dumb move for a defensive player turned GM with a DC turned HC.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're advocating for here. I don't agree with your assessment of the quarterbacks in this draft, I suppose... But that's not the big issue.
I think there are pieces on the Browns roster right NOW that will be part of a good situation going forward. If you don't want to take a quarterback with that first pick, I kind of get what you're getting at. But Hoyer isn't likely going to be the answer either, so that leaves the Browns in an even stevens position.
I fail to see how making an attempt to fix this positional hole is somehow worse than leaving it status quo.
i'm advocating leaving it status quo, that's correct, at QB position until somewhere in the 3rd and we can get a guy that farmer sees gold in. i really doubt you are going to see us take a QB with our first pick and hopefully not our second either.
this draft is so deep at other positions of need that we can build that killer TEAM have all the pieces in place for a guy coming out next year.
do you really think the cleveland browns at this point just by adding a QB will make it to the playoffs next year? simple question. why not get a #2 CB? a tall sticky handed fast WR? an OT for the right side? a beast mode RB? a ball busting SS? another complimentary TE? and those are before people are either dumped or traded which means we'd have to add to those positions.
build the team and then hand the reigns over to next year's 'sure thing'.
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