My Take on the Browns 2009 Draft
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I am really interested and kindof scared to see Mendenhall two times a year, Ray rice is a damn good Back, Jonathan Stewart is an animal, Kevin Johnson came on strong in the end for Detroit but to no fanfair, Seven running backs with significant PT, save Mendenhall... Oh yeah and the guy I wanted in the fourth Tashard Choice had 100 yards in his only start....against Pittsburgh! For the ages.....oh and forgot about Mcfadden and Felix Jones......
It may end up that way, but it's just too early to tell imo.
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I agree about Brown being better suited for Tampa 2 DE/Jim Johnson rush end. The coaches at FSU would even sometimes slide him in to DT on passing downs, allowing him to use his quicks to get around interior linemen.
That said, I'm starting to think that some team will be convinced that he's a perfect fit for 3-4 OLB. I think he's a better version of Gaines Adams, but his workout numbers will have some thinking DeMarcus Ware.
Aloysius said:
I agree about Brown being better suited for Tampa 2 DE/Jim Johnson rush end. The coaches at FSU would even sometimes slide him in to DT on passing downs, allowing him to use his quicks to get around interior linemen.That said, I'm starting to think that some team will be convinced that he's a perfect fit for 3-4 OLB. I think he's a better version of Gaines Adams, but his workout numbers will have some thinking DeMarcus Ware.
Brown is 6' 4" and 250 lbs. Just about the same size as Cushing, Maybin, Orakpo and Sintim. All are within an inch and 5 lbs of each other. Why would you think he is better suited for a 4-3 DE. Many list him as the best pass rusher in the draft and project him as a Suggs type of pass rusher. I think he is more like Suggs then Gaines Adams.
He will eat the combine up and have 3-4 teams slobbering all over themselves. I think he just may jump right up there with Curry as the best defensive player in the draft.
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Masters said:
It may end up that way, but it's just too early to tell imo.I forgot to mention Tim Hightower.....and Peyton Hillis, Jamaal Charles and Mike Hart....Charles will be someone to watch come next year and Hart is solid bak-up
I forgot to mention Tim Hightower.....and Peyton Hillis, Jamaal Charles and Mike Hart....Charles will be someone to watch come next year and Hart is solid bak-up
To me, mentioning Hightower is like mentioning McClain. They are great at short yardage or ponding it into the endzone from 3 yards out. But after that, they didn't do squat and I don't think they ever will.
Hillis looked pretty good for a bit. Then again, it's DEN. We'll see how he does with a new O, which probably no longer feature the zone blocking scheme Shanahan used for so many years.
The other guys, well I'll have to see what they do when they see real playing time and not just a carry or two.
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I forgot to mention Tim Hightower.....and Peyton Hillis, Jamaal Charles and Mike Hart....Charles will be someone to watch come next year and Hart is solid bak-up
To me, mentioning Hightower is like mentioning McClain. They are great at short yardage or ponding it into the endzone from 3 yards out. But after that, they didn't do squat and I don't think they ever will.
Hillis looked pretty good for a bit. Then again, it's DEN. We'll see how he does with a new O, which probably no longer feature the zone blocking scheme Shanahan used for so many years.
The other guys, well I'll have to see what they do when they see real playing time and not just a carry or two.
Masters said:
To me, mentioning Hightower is like mentioning McClain. They are great at short yardage or ponding it into the endzone from 3 yards out. But after that, they didn't do squat and I don't think they ever will.Hillis looked pretty good for a bit. Then again, it's DEN. We'll see how he does with a new O, which probably no longer feature the zone blocking scheme Shanahan used for so many years.
The other guys, well I'll have to see what they do when they see real playing time and not just a carry or two.
well...together with the others....makes up one hell of a RB draft class in 08'
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Masters said:
To me, mentioning Hightower is like mentioning McClain. They are great at short yardage or ponding it into the endzone from 3 yards out. But after that, they didn't do squat and I don't think they ever will.Hillis looked pretty good for a bit. Then again, it's DEN. We'll see how he does with a new O, which probably no longer feature the zone blocking scheme Shanahan used for so many years.
The other guys, well I'll have to see what they do when they see real playing time and not just a carry or two.
well...together with the others....makes up one hell of a RB draft class in 08'
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Aloysius said:
I agree about Brown being better suited for Tampa 2 DE/Jim Johnson rush end. The coaches at FSU would even sometimes slide him in to DT on passing downs, allowing him to use his quicks to get around interior linemen.That said, I'm starting to think that some team will be convinced that he's a perfect fit for 3-4 OLB. I think he's a better version of Gaines Adams, but his workout numbers will have some thinking DeMarcus Ware.
Brown is 6' 4" and 250 lbs. Just about the same size as Cushing, Maybin, Orakpo and Sintim. All are within an inch and 5 lbs of each other. Why would you think he is better suited for a 4-3 DE. Many list him as the best pass rusher in the draft and project him as a Suggs type of pass rusher. I think he is more like Suggs then Gaines Adams.
He will eat the combine up and have 3-4 teams slobbering all over themselves. I think he just may jump right up there with Curry as the best defensive player in the draft.
Brown is 6' 4" and 250 lbs. Just about the same size as Cushing, Maybin, Orakpo and Sintim. All are within an inch and 5 lbs of each other. Why would you think he is better suited for a 4-3 DE. Many list him as the best pass rusher in the draft and project him as a Suggs type of pass rusher. I think he is more like Suggs then Gaines Adams.
He will eat the combine up and have 3-4 teams slobbering all over themselves. I think he just may jump right up there with Curry as the best defensive player in the draft.
Two of Brown's best attributes are his quickness off the snap and and his underestimated strength, both of which he deploys very well from the DE spot. He also has a sweet Freeney-like spin move.
All of those make him a good Tampa2 DE prospect. And though he quickly gets back in his drops on zone blitzes, they're usually very shallow and I can't remember seeing him ever do anything while dropped into coverage.
He likely could transition to 3-4 OLB, but his style of play says 4-3 DE in a way that the rest of those guys' play doesn't. Maybe it's because three of the other guys you mentioned have experience at linebacker, and another one is only 235 pounds (Maybin).
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Yeah, it's not so much about his size, though I think he's going to show up to the weigh-ins bigger than those other guys. It's more about what he does. I haven't really seen him do anything but rush the passer, which he does well, though most of it seems to depend on getting off the ball fast. Which is fine - Dwight Freeney has made quite a living that way. I'm just saying we'll have to see what else he can do. Can he drop into coverage? Can he hold the edge against the run? I can't tell.
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Brown is 6' 4" and 250 lbs. Just about the same size as Cushing, Maybin, Orakpo and Sintim. All are within an inch and 5 lbs of each other. Why would you think he is better suited for a 4-3 DE. Many list him as the best pass rusher in the draft and project him as a Suggs type of pass rusher. I think he is more like Suggs then Gaines Adams.
He will eat the combine up and have 3-4 teams slobbering all over themselves. I think he just may jump right up there with Curry as the best defensive player in the draft.
Two of Brown's best attributes are his quickness off the snap and and his underestimated strength, both of which he deploys very well from the DE spot. He also has a sweet Freeney-like spin move.
All of those make him a good Tampa2 DE prospect. And though he quickly gets back in his drops on zone blitzes, they're usually very shallow and I can't remember seeing him ever do anything while dropped into coverage.
He likely could transition to 3-4 OLB, but his style of play says 4-3 DE in a way that the rest of those guys' play doesn't. Maybe it's because three of the other guys you mentioned have experience at linebacker, and another one is only 235 pounds (Maybin).
Aloysius said:
Two of Brown's best attributes are his quickness off the snap and and his underestimated strength, both of which he deploys very well from the DE spot. He also has a sweet Freeney-like spin move.All of those make him a good Tampa2 DE prospect. And though he quickly gets back in his drops on zone blitzes, they're usually very shallow and I can't remember seeing him ever do anything while dropped into coverage.
He likely could transition to 3-4 OLB, but his style of play says 4-3 DE in a way that the rest of those guys' play doesn't. Maybe it's because three of the other guys you mentioned have experience at linebacker, and another one is only 235 pounds (Maybin).
He still reminds me of Suggs when I watch film of him. I would love to see him stand up and be able to move around a bit. To me he is what you are looking for in a pass rushing OLB in the 3-4. Maybe what the Browns were looking for in Wimbley and never got.
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Wimbley is such a mystery. After year one I was prepared to say that he was at least as good a pick as Ngata, the guy I wanted, but the three-year results are in and that's clearly not the case.
11 sacks as a rookie, then 5, then 4 this past year. Not what you want to see. It may mean that left tackles have figured him out.
But hey, at least his contract year is coming up.
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The problem with us taking Curry, is that he is a Weak Side ILB, he's the smaller ILB who is better at coverage than the other ILB..... the thing is, we already have that in D'qwell, Maualuga is our monster, our blitz up the gutter, our run stuffer, our madman, our identity... if you will
Are there any mocks that go into round 2 that have us taking Jennings?!?!?!?
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I also must say that although I dont share Aloysius' views on curry, his post on Frantz Joseph wowed me. If that guy is seriously a day 2 pick Im stunned. I could see him being Rey Maualugas back up, they can sub in and out, keeping them both fresh.
So now I know somewhat of what I want
1. Rey Maualuga
2. Rashad Jennings
3.(if we get one) a FS prospect
4. Frantz Joseph
5. A right tackle prospect we could groom (a strong nasty pure run blocking type, im sure there will be some prototypical guys in the 5th)
Hopefully we can trade down to 10 and get another second rounder out of it so we can scoop up onother OLB, or draft our RT there.
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The problem with us taking Curry, is that he is a Weak Side ILB, he's the smaller ILB who is better at coverage than the other ILB..... the thing is, we already have that in D'qwell, Maualuga is our monster, our blitz up the gutter, our run stuffer, our madman, our identity... if you will
Are there any mocks that go into round 2 that have us taking Jennings?!?!?!?
The problem with us taking Curry, is that he is a Weak Side ILB, he's the smaller ILB who is better at coverage than the other ILB..... the thing is, we already have that in D'qwell, Maualuga is our monster, our blitz up the gutter, our run stuffer, our madman, our identity... if you will
I love this argument: it amounts to "Maualuga's worse in coverage; therefore, he's the better pick."
Personally, I favor solid all-around LB's. And I don't know that Maualuga's much bigger: he weighed in at 254 at the Combine; Curry says he weighs 250 lbs.
And Curry's plenty strong for playing strongside ILB. Check out how he takes on blockers in this clip: I love how he ragdolls the TE on the passing play & delivers a hit to the RB on the QB sneak.
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The problem with us taking Curry, is that he is a Weak Side ILB, he's the smaller ILB who is better at coverage than the other ILB..... the thing is, we already have that in D'qwell, Maualuga is our monster, our blitz up the gutter, our run stuffer, our madman, our identity... if you will
I love this argument: it amounts to "Maualuga's worse in coverage; therefore, he's the better pick."
Personally, I favor solid all-around LB's. And I don't know that Maualuga's much bigger: he weighed in at 254 at the Combine; Curry says he weighs 250 lbs.
And Curry's plenty strong for playing strongside ILB. Check out how he takes on blockers in this clip: I love how he ragdolls the TE on the passing play & delivers a hit to the RB on the QB sneak.
Aloysius said:
I love this argument: it amounts to "Maualuga's worse in coverage; therefore, he's the better pick."Personally, I favor solid all-around LB's. And I don't know that Maualuga's much bigger: he weighed in at 254 at the Combine; Curry says he weighs 250 lbs.
And Curry's plenty strong for playing strongside ILB. Check out how he takes on blockers in this clip: I love how he ragdolls the TE on the passing play & delivers a hit to the RB on the QB sneak.
You are absolutely right, Curry is not a WILB. Actually his strengths make him a great candidate for that SILB and he would be a great fit next to Jackson. He would make Jackson an even better player. He has the cover skills that Jackson doesn't have. He also is disciplined and doesn't get caught out of position. But, what I really like about him is that he doesn't get caught up in traffic and gets off blocks very well.
I still believe that FA will decide if we take Curry or a pass rusher.
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@jadbf said:
Or again, and I'll keep saying this till I am blue in the face...BUT it MIGHT just be the stupid scheming and coaching we had. Again. Harrison of the Steelers, The DEFENSIVE MVP of the freaking league this year, was cut 3 times by the Steelers and once by the ravens before he became the player he is today. He couldn't have done all that improving on his own. and The steelers blitz system confuses offenses for him. The Browns defensive game plan the past few years was. "HEY OFFENSE! WIMBLEY is the the 4th rusher! and he's always going to line up RIGHT HERE! Try and stop him!"Yea, I do get a little ahead of the game with Wimbley. I still believe that he didn't just forget how to play football. It was very sad how they used him this year. I think he dropped into coverage more then he rushed the passer. But I agree, they never moved him around or did anything but say "OK my hands down, so here I come". So, I would really love to see Ryan work with him and use him in some different ways.
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The problem with us taking Curry, is that he is a Weak Side ILB, he's the smaller ILB who is better at coverage than the other ILB..... the thing is, we already have that in D'qwell, Maualuga is our monster, our blitz up the gutter, our run stuffer, our madman, our identity... if you will
I love this argument: it amounts to "Maualuga's worse in coverage; therefore, he's the better pick."
Personally, I favor solid all-around LB's. And I don't know that Maualuga's much bigger: he weighed in at 254 at the Combine; Curry says he weighs 250 lbs.
And Curry's plenty strong for playing strongside ILB. Check out how he takes on blockers in this clip: I love how he ragdolls the TE on the passing play & delivers a hit to the RB on the QB sneak.
Aloysius said:
I love this argument: it amounts to "Maualuga's worse in coverage; therefore, he's the better pick."Personally, I favor solid all-around LB's. And I don't know that Maualuga's much bigger: he weighed in at 254 at the Combine; Curry says he weighs 250 lbs.
And Curry's plenty strong for playing strongside ILB. Check out how he takes on blockers in this clip: I love how he ragdolls the TE on the passing play & delivers a hit to the RB on the QB sneak.
Yeah...I think people are forgetting that the pre-eminant SILB in the league (Ray Lewis) is only 245 NOW...he was even smaller coming out of college.
So, the argument that Curry is too small falls kind of flat. Like I have been saying...if we are going for a 2 down guy (which I think Maualuga will be)...we may as well take him in round 6 in Brinkley (poor mans Maualuga....who just might be as good if he heals completely and can get back to pre-injury form).
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I want attitude.
I want to see a defensive full of guys going out there giving 100% and acting like rabid animals on the field.
I want blitzes and hard hits.
And until we get that one crazy guy to elevate everyone around him we're going to get more of the same.
I'm tired of seeing bend but don't break, qbs that have all day to throw the ball that aren't ours and letting Os get field goals and celebrate because it wasn't 6.
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I also must say that although I dont share Aloysius' views on curry, his post on Frantz Joseph wowed me. If that guy is seriously a day 2 pick Im stunned. I could see him being Rey Maualugas back up, they can sub in and out, keeping them both fresh.
So now I know somewhat of what I want
1. Rey Maualuga
2. Rashad Jennings
3.(if we get one) a FS prospect
4. Frantz Joseph
5. A right tackle prospect we could groom (a strong nasty pure run blocking type, im sure there will be some prototypical guys in the 5th)
Hopefully we can trade down to 10 and get another second rounder out of it so we can scoop up onother OLB, or draft our RT there.
5. A right tackle prospect we could groom (a strong nasty pure run blocking type, im sure there will be some prototypical guys in the 5th)
Houston OT Sebastian Vollmer would seem to be a good fit for what you're looking for. He was impressive during the East-West Shrine Game practices and was similarly impressive during the actual game.
He may not be as big as you'd like (6'7", 314 lbs.), but his size & athletic profile is a good fit for our o-line.
Some drawbacks: he played LT in college, so he may spend his first training camp struggling with his footwork. And he missed all of the '06 season because of a back injury, so there could be some medical concerns there.
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