Adam Schefter on DA
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I did I presented a life winning formula for all to read........NO AGENDA.......it has now been deleted eight times.........
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IS THAT WHAT YOU WHAT IN FREEDOM OF SPEECH?
too funny here
BTW your other note may have been deleted here in free of speech Stans heil salute town
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masters you have me pegged..... and the season tickets/psl/ohio state nut that during football season entire weekends are devoted to traveling to columbus than to cleveland on sunday.... or the banning of blue and yellow clothing on my children along with black and yellow.... I know its just a passing fancy for me.... forced on me by some traveling gypsy friends lol. My wife and kids along with Business partners all know not to bother me during football weekends. I know I am a DA fan not a Browns fans because I rather have 2 qbs that can win versus one on the roster... I know the 3 games should be enough for me and since its not I am not a browns fan... I know I get it.
Funny the closest situation was San diego with Brees and rivers and yet they did exactly as the Browns did and only traded finally when brees was seen as injured seriously..... This is about having POTENTIALLY 2 qbs which I would rather have than one... call me greedy.... BUt ONE of them played 3 games..
All BQ fans have is the injury to explain the close bump and run coverage that took away his quick short hits and dump offs.... Film from Denver and all his passes under 10 yards probably had something to do with those games..... no I must have picked that up on sports center.
The bad reads probably was because of his finger....
I want BQ to be our starter so we know what we have, I dont assume like evidently you do what he may or may not be able to do until he actually proves it. Until than call me silly for wanting to have a backup plan.... Yea lets bet it all... like most qb starved franchises do when they DONT HAVE A YOUNG QB WHO SHOWS GLIMPSES of quality.... And the CRASH those franchises suffer is a awful long list that ahem... Couch we are a part of of.
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I just gave you a thank you in the other thread. But thank you again.
Like I said, I don't agree with your thread being deleted. But as I have said before, this is a private message board. There is no real freedom of speech here. It's like assuming your freedom of speech would make it okay for you to be invited into someones house, then say anything you want. Their house, their rules.
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masters you have me pegged..... and the season tickets/psl/ohio state nut that during football season entire weekends are devoted to traveling to columbus than to cleveland on sunday.... or the banning of blue and yellow clothing on my children along with black and yellow.... I know its just a passing fancy for me.... forced on me by some traveling gypsy friends lol. My wife and kids along with Business partners all know not to bother me during football weekends. I know I am a DA fan not a Browns fans because I rather have 2 qbs that can win versus one on the roster... I know the 3 games should be enough for me and since its not I am not a browns fan... I know I get it.
Funny the closest situation was San diego with Brees and rivers and yet they did exactly as the Browns did and only traded finally when brees was seen as injured seriously..... This is about having POTENTIALLY 2 qbs which I would rather have than one... call me greedy.... BUt ONE of them played 3 games..
All BQ fans have is the injury to explain the close bump and run coverage that took away his quick short hits and dump offs.... Film from Denver and all his passes under 10 yards probably had something to do with those games..... no I must have picked that up on sports center.
The bad reads probably was because of his finger....
I want BQ to be our starter so we know what we have, I dont assume like evidently you do what he may or may not be able to do until he actually proves it. Until than call me silly for wanting to have a backup plan.... Yea lets bet it all... like most qb starved franchises do when they DONT HAVE A YOUNG QB WHO SHOWS GLIMPSES of quality.... And the CRASH those franchises suffer is a awful long list that ahem... Couch we are a part of of.
Funny the closest situation was San diego with Brees and rivers and yet they did exactly as the Browns did and only traded finally when brees was seen as injured seriously..... This is about having POTENTIALLY 2 qbs which I would rather have than one... call me greedy.... BUt ONE of them played 3 games..
Wow, you just again reproved my assumption. SD never traded Drew Brees. They let him walk for nothing. Which they should have never done, because they could have gotten picks out of him.
And one played poorly over his last 16 starts. DA has put up back up QB stats over his last 16. CLE could get that same production out of one of them.
You bring up the coverage, so what was DA's excuse when the same D was used against him against HOU in the second half and against IND? It's also pretty hard to beat bump coverage when you can't grip the ball. Or BE makes no effort to get inside position (if you can use BE as a crutch/excuse for DA I can use it for Quinn).
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your right they did not trade him they offered him a 5 year 50 million dollar contract after the franchise tag was used, your right that was the year the saints and dolphins wanted him but miami traded minnesota for Culpepper I believe that was 2006.
So I stand corrected I forgot about the franchise tag San Diego was forced to use.
I am not going defend all of DA's weaknesses or our team skill players in general. I think DA as a young QB has work to do, but the NFL has shown that young qbs who throw for more than 25tds in their first year is rare in their first full starting season. BQ may or may not have the arm or mental capacity to throw 25-30 yd strikes in tight coverage in order to beat defensive schemes. We dont know yet and that is something he has to prove in order to be a qb in the NFL.
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Funny the closest situation was San diego with Brees and rivers and yet they did exactly as the Browns did and only traded finally when brees was seen as injured seriously..... This is about having POTENTIALLY 2 qbs which I would rather have than one... call me greedy.... BUt ONE of them played 3 games..
Wow, you just again reproved my assumption. SD never traded Drew Brees. They let him walk for nothing. Which they should have never done, because they could have gotten picks out of him.
And one played poorly over his last 16 starts. DA has put up back up QB stats over his last 16. CLE could get that same production out of one of them.
You bring up the coverage, so what was DA's excuse when the same D was used against him against HOU in the second half and against IND? It's also pretty hard to beat bump coverage when you can't grip the ball. Or BE makes no effort to get inside position (if you can use BE as a crutch/excuse for DA I can use it for Quinn).
Masters said:
Wow, you just again reproved my assumption. SD never traded Drew Brees. They let him walk for nothing. Which they should have never done, because they could have gotten picks out of him.And one played poorly over his last 16 starts. DA has put up back up QB stats over his last 16. CLE could get that same production out of one of them.
You bring up the coverage, so what was DA's excuse when the same D was used against him against HOU in the second half and against IND? It's also pretty hard to beat bump coverage when you can't grip the ball. Or BE makes no effort to get inside position (if you can use BE as a crutch/excuse for DA I can use it for Quinn).
Good points Masters. The fact of the matter is DA has had 20 plus starts and you know what your gonna get from him. Mistakes at critical parts of the game or a bunch of three and outs. He has never really improved from college and probably never will. So you might as well trade him while you can and at least get a pick or two to help this team.
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your right they did not trade him they offered him a 5 year 50 million dollar contract after the franchise tag was used, your right that was the year the saints and dolphins wanted him but miami traded minnesota for Culpepper I believe that was 2006.
So I stand corrected I forgot about the franchise tag San Diego was forced to use.
I am not going defend all of DA's weaknesses or our team skill players in general. I think DA as a young QB has work to do, but the NFL has shown that young qbs who throw for more than 25tds in their first year is rare in their first full starting season. BQ may or may not have the arm or mental capacity to throw 25-30 yd strikes in tight coverage in order to beat defensive schemes. We dont know yet and that is something he has to prove in order to be a qb in the NFL.
your right they did not trade him they offered him a 5 year 50 million dollar contract after the franchise tag was used, your right that was the year the saints and dolphins wanted him but miami traded minnesota for Culpepper I believe that was 2006.
So I stand corrected I forgot about the franchise tag San Diego was forced to use.
I am not going defend all of DA's weaknesses or our team skill players in general. I think DA as a young QB has work to do, but the NFL has shown that young qbs who throw for more than 25tds in their first year is rare in their first full starting season. BQ may or may not have the arm or mental capacity to throw 25-30 yd strikes in tight coverage in order to beat defensive schemes. We dont know yet and that is something he has to prove in order to be a qb in the NFL.
They didn't franchise him either, because of his hurt arm. If franchised, SD would have gotten something out of it. They just decided to let him walk for nothing. I was shocked, because you should try and get value.
But here is the issue with the concept of DA being young and having work to do. He has had the same problems since HS. He has never learned to take off the heat on his throws in shorter range. Might not ever be able to. As to the deep ball, it isn't ever about mental capacity to throw it (and Quinn threw more than his fair share at ND). It's one of the easier throws because you don't have to be precise on it. JasonJ does a great explaination of the whole thing in this thread: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php...=2465&st=20
"Can a qb improve his accuracy? Sure. Experience is a great teacher. But here's the rub. I can learn to drive a golf ball long and straight. I can learn to hit a 5 iron 165 on the button. It's one basic stroke. I can learn it. But the only way for me to learn all the millions of nuances for the 100's of 1000's of shots around the green... is repetition, repetition, repetition.
If you told me you have a quarterback that is accurate, but has trouble dialing in his deep ball. I'd tell you, unless he's out-throwing his arm, I can fix that. On a 40-45 yard throw, you only have to throw the ball into about an 12-18 foot circle depending on the route. Most quarterbacks, with proper mechanics, can do that with their eyes closed.
And the flatter you can throw it, the bigger that circle gets, because you can throw the ball through the target area instead of landing it in the target area. So, if you've got an arm like DA's and can throw 45-50 yards about 12 feet off the ground you've got a pretty good sized margin for error.
But, when you have a kid with a cannon hanging from his right shoulder that can't hit a 12 yard target without leaving a 6-foot exit wound coming out the other side, I'm going to have my doubts as to how much I can teach him. Kids with that kind of problem spend most of their time taking too much off, or not enough, skipping balls, sailing them, suffering through spells where they can't hit a single living thing with a football up to and including the sedentary cow it was made from.
And, on the subject of not going deep enough... I always like challenging a defense, but, you've got to take your shots when you get them. If the qb gets to the top of his drop and the DB's are still looking him in the eye, he just can't launch that deep ball. The DB's have a better look at it than the receiver does. And suddenly that 12-18 foot circle becomes a 24 inch port hole moving 20 miles per hour.
Now, if he get's man coverage, or the safety has already had to clear his hips and run, take a shot. But, most teams have figured out that they have to keep the Browns receivers in front of them."
Obviously, this was part of the case for going with Quinn over Anderson, but that's not the point here. The point is, if a guy has "accuracy problems," he's going to have accuracy problems. "
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Masters said:
Wow, you just again reproved my assumption. SD never traded Drew Brees. They let him walk for nothing. Which they should have never done, because they could have gotten picks out of him.And one played poorly over his last 16 starts. DA has put up back up QB stats over his last 16. CLE could get that same production out of one of them.
You bring up the coverage, so what was DA's excuse when the same D was used against him against HOU in the second half and against IND? It's also pretty hard to beat bump coverage when you can't grip the ball. Or BE makes no effort to get inside position (if you can use BE as a crutch/excuse for DA I can use it for Quinn).
Good points Masters. The fact of the matter is DA has had 20 plus starts and you know what your gonna get from him. Mistakes at critical parts of the game or a bunch of three and outs. He has never really improved from college and probably never will. So you might as well trade him while you can and at least get a pick or two to help this team.
Good points Masters. The fact of the matter is DA has had 20 plus starts and you know what your gonna get from him. Mistakes at critical parts of the game or a bunch of three and outs. He has never really improved from college and probably never will. So you might as well trade him while you can and at least get a pick or two to help this team.
That's pretty much it. I could go into how much more organized and properly lined up the O also got once DA went to the bench, but that's a whole different story.
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wait a minute masters you are saying their are PLENTY of back up qbs who can throw 20+ tds a year? really? STARTERs dont always do that.... plenty of backups? wow. you and I must see completely differently than what is available on the open market either thru trade or free agency. Franchises who pay out blackmail 1st round draft pick crazy money on the hope and dream that it MIGHT pan out must just be doing that because they like to ignore the bunches of backups who toss that many tds a year....
wait a minute masters you are saying their are PLENTY of back up qbs who can throw 20+ tds a year? really?
There are plenty of backups that could throw 4 INTs vrs the 4-12 Tampa Bucs On December 23rd of 2006. Just like there are plenty of backups that could throw 4 INTs in Cincy exactly 1 year later. There's something about a backup QB playing Santa Claus to our opponents every Christmas Season that just warms certain hearts I guess. Underneathe all of the Disney in this story is the reality that a QB that punctuated 2006 with disappointment did the SAME thing the next season. Isn't the goal to get better with experience? He was exactly the same QB 365 days later.
If I hear 20 TDs one more time I'm gonna remind people that Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl so ANYTHING is possible. DA got 5 TDs against Cincy, 3 or 4 against Miami and 3 against St Louis. He had 12 more starts though right? And it's not like we had more than 4 opponents capable of winning more than 8 games. How'd we do against those teams? We were 1-3 beating ONLY a 9-7 Seattle team that didn't ever travel well. Big deal. Losses to the EASY Oakland Raiders and Cincy Bengals pretty much undid the chance to do anything special with the easiest schedule we've had in my 43 years of tuning in.
In other words, there was a REASON we drafted Brady Quinn. Let's just say it wasn't to watch another QB repeat careless mistakes and play like a bum instead. Get over it - DA's had countless chances to snap out of it. He hasn't. Next...
- Tom F. (This Kurt Warner story ended right after "once upon a time." The REAL Kurt Warner story replaced happily after ever with a Lombardi Trophy held up by the arm that threw 41 TD passes that season)
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In conclusion, we can safely say that DA deserves to be a starter or a backup in some other NFL team, and it is very expensive for Browns to keep him and very stupid for Browns to let him walk away a free agent. Did i miss something ?
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In conclusion, we can safely say that DA deserves to be a starter or a backup in some other NFL team, and it is very expensive for Browns to keep him and very stupid for Browns to let him walk away a free agent. Did i miss something ?
In conclusion, we can safely say that DA deserves to be a starter or a backup in some other NFL team, and it is very expensive for Browns to keep him and very stupid for Browns to let him walk away a free agent. Did i miss something ?
Actually it is very expensive to keep him and very expensive to release him and will be very expensive to trade him after March 1st. In any senerio, unless we trade him before March 1st we get hit with about $7.5 million. Even if we trade him before March 1st we still a cap hit for the prorated portions of his initial signing bonus will come due @ about $2.5 million.
None of this takes into consideration the team having to go out and get a veteran and sign him, which only adds to the amount it will cost for our backup QB.
So, the cheapest and maybe best senerio is to keep him this year and trade him next year if you can't get rid of him by March 1st.
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In conclusion, we can safely say that DA deserves to be a starter or a backup in some other NFL team, and it is very expensive for Browns to keep him and very stupid for Browns to let him walk away a free agent. Did i miss something ?
Actually it is very expensive to keep him and very expensive to release him and will be very expensive to trade him after March 1st. In any senerio, unless we trade him before March 1st we get hit with about $7.5 million. Even if we trade him before March 1st we still a cap hit for the prorated portions of his initial signing bonus will come due @ about $2.5 million.
None of this takes into consideration the team having to go out and get a veteran and sign him, which only adds to the amount it will cost for our backup QB.
So, the cheapest and maybe best senerio is to keep him this year and trade him next year if you can't get rid of him by March 1st.
Actually it is very expensive to keep him and very expensive to release him and will be very expensive to trade him after March 1st. In any senerio, unless we trade him before March 1st we get hit with about $7.5 million. Even if we trade him before March 1st we still a cap hit for the prorated portions of his initial signing bonus will come due @ about $2.5 million.
None of this takes into consideration the team having to go out and get a veteran and sign him, which only adds to the amount it will cost for our backup QB.
So, the cheapest and maybe best senerio is to keep him this year and trade him next year if you can't get rid of him by March 1st.
2.5M if CLE can move him before March 1st is a lot easier to swollow than 7.5M
No if DA would redo his deal to be a back up, I"d be all for keeping him around.
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ytown that sounds about right financially, the money allocated toward qbs on our roster with Quinn getting paid backup money really does not bother me. We have Lewis who could and should be shed and definately a lot of money tied up in recievers... stallworth, I dont know what JJ is being paid but he is probably done, the Lbs like Mcginest and davis need to be shed.
The amount of money we have tied up in our QB's is fine contractually... for this year at least. Trading Da would be high risk and completely not necessary yet. IF BQ starts and plays well enough next year than we let him go.
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@shepwrite said:
I hate the idea of perpetuating the indecision. Anderson has to go.If there's competition for him, why wouldn't a team pay that bonus? Any top quarterback you sign or draft is gonna get paid. By skipping last year, is his contract really that high for a starting quarterback, assuming that's what he'd be to any team that would part with a 2 or even a 3?
His contract isn't even worth discussing...because it only has 2yrs left on it...and nobody is going to trade a 2nd round pick for a guy they only have locked for 2 yrs.
Basically, what I am saying is he will have to restructure his contract no matter who he plays for. Either do a longer term...more cap friendly deal with the new FO for the Browns...or a long term contract with his new team, so they don't lose him after just 2 seasons.
The fact is, his contract is NOT going to be the stumbling block people are making it out to be.
If you draft a QB even in the 3rd round you are going to be paying MORE than a $5M bonus up front...so his little contract bonus this year is nothing. Basically, teams in need of a QB are going to have to look at what is available in the draft into the 3rd round...and if DA is better than the untried rookie (or at least comparable)...then they will make the trade.
Personally, if I NEEDED a QB, I would trade a 2nd for DA in a heartbeat. He has shown he CAN do it under the right circumstances...and his upside is better than most 2nd/3rd rounders...and he has a huge arm...and he has experience.
The problem here in Cleveland is that we have ALREADY paid for a 1st round type talent QB...so there is less NEED for him...and we have plenty of other NEEDS that the draft picks he will garner would justify the move.
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ytown that sounds about right financially, the money allocated toward qbs on our roster with Quinn getting paid backup money really does not bother me. We have Lewis who could and should be shed and definately a lot of money tied up in recievers... stallworth, I dont know what JJ is being paid but he is probably done, the Lbs like Mcginest and davis need to be shed.
The amount of money we have tied up in our QB's is fine contractually... for this year at least. Trading Da would be high risk and completely not necessary yet. IF BQ starts and plays well enough next year than we let him go.
ytown that sounds about right financially, the money allocated toward qbs on our roster with Quinn getting paid backup money really does not bother me. We have Lewis who could and should be shed and definately a lot of money tied up in recievers... stallworth, I dont know what JJ is being paid but he is probably done, the Lbs like Mcginest and davis need to be shed.
The amount of money we have tied up in our QB's is fine contractually... for this year at least. Trading Da would be high risk and completely not necessary yet. IF BQ starts and plays well enough next year than we let him go.
Davis and McGinest are already shed. They are FA
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shep the indecision was with the last management and coaching staff. Mangini is a whole lot more decisive than RAC was so we will see what the new ADMIN brings.
Fans were the ones really screaming last year and not agreeing with the admin. We will see. IF there is a competition which would be smart for Mangini and he says BQ the guy great but if he says DA is the guy than a majority of fans are going to judge Mangini unfit.
For the fans they want quinn, lets see how the admin makes their own talent assessment. IF DA is still on the roster it does nothing but keep BQ honest and hungry with a guy right behind him. Fans have made up their projections not the staff who make money from the game.
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In all possible probability, Quinn is going to get his chance to start. DA had his, and his last 16 games or so were generally awful; culminating in the worst passer rating the NFL last year. (Yeah, blame it on everything but him as it was clear Cleveland's cockpit was the WORST in the NFL.)
So, there are two camps of thought here:
1) Trade DA if there is value now. This school of thought believes there is a lesser probability that DA will emerge as the answer to the QB position in Cleveland. Furthermore, this school of thought believes that based on the first assertion, cashing him in for value to bolster other areas on the team is the wisest move.
2) Keep DA. This school of thought believes that DA's play over his past 16 games was due to environmental issues primarily and that DA has a high probability of panning out into the answer.
I seriously don't understand how anyone can be in the second camp with Lum. Somehow, the sev-e-nator has himself there. Boggles the mind.
Finally, notice how little mention of Quinn in this post. Again, if Quinn flames out we're in the market for a QB.
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ytown that sounds about right financially, the money allocated toward qbs on our roster with Quinn getting paid backup money really does not bother me. We have Lewis who could and should be shed and definately a lot of money tied up in recievers... stallworth, I dont know what JJ is being paid but he is probably done, the Lbs like Mcginest and davis need to be shed.
The amount of money we have tied up in our QB's is fine contractually... for this year at least. Trading Da would be high risk and completely not necessary yet. IF BQ starts and plays well enough next year than we let him go.
ytown that sounds about right financially, the money allocated toward qbs on our roster with Quinn getting paid backup money really does not bother me. We have Lewis who could and should be shed and definately a lot of money tied up in recievers... stallworth, I dont know what JJ is being paid but he is probably done, the Lbs like Mcginest and davis need to be shed.
The amount of money we have tied up in our QB's is fine contractually... for this year at least. Trading Da would be high risk and completely not necessary yet. IF BQ starts and plays well enough next year than we let him go.
Quinn's contract changes drastically if he is the starter. It is highly incentive based. They can't pay Lewis $6.4 million. I don't think he's around to open camp with that salary. I don't know how much of Stallworth's contract is guaranted or what kind of cap hit he would be if released. If the cap hit isn't to bad, he will be gone. McGinest and Davis are UFAs and most likely won't be resigned. I would think that unless Peek reworks his contract he will be gone too. Also in trouble could be Fraley.
Big problem is Sean Jones. He's a FA and wants big bucks and at least a 4 year contract. I don't know if he is worth it.
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ytown that sounds about right financially, the money allocated toward qbs on our roster with Quinn getting paid backup money really does not bother me. We have Lewis who could and should be shed and definately a lot of money tied up in recievers... stallworth, I dont know what JJ is being paid but he is probably done, the Lbs like Mcginest and davis need to be shed.
The amount of money we have tied up in our QB's is fine contractually... for this year at least. Trading Da would be high risk and completely not necessary yet. IF BQ starts and plays well enough next year than we let him go.
Quinn's contract changes drastically if he is the starter. It is highly incentive based. They can't pay Lewis $6.4 million. I don't think he's around to open camp with that salary. I don't know how much of Stallworth's contract is guaranted or what kind of cap hit he would be if released. If the cap hit isn't to bad, he will be gone. McGinest and Davis are UFAs and most likely won't be resigned. I would think that unless Peek reworks his contract he will be gone too. Also in trouble could be Fraley.
Big problem is Sean Jones. He's a FA and wants big bucks and at least a 4 year contract. I don't know if he is worth it.
Quinn's contract changes drastically if he is the starter. It is highly incentive based. They can't pay Lewis $6.4 million. I don't think he's around to open camp with that salary. I don't know how much of Stallworth's contract is guaranted or what kind of cap hit he would be if released. If the cap hit isn't to bad, he will be gone. McGinest and Davis are UFAs and most likely won't be resigned. I would think that unless Peek reworks his contract he will be gone too. Also in trouble could be Fraley.
Big problem is Sean Jones. He's a FA and wants big bucks and at least a 4 year contract. I don't know if he is worth it.
I see us keeping Stallworth around since there aren't any better FA alternatives.
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