Jonathan Paul Manziel
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QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
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QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
uh, hoyer. duh?
i mean we gave brandon fuckin weeden 2 years as the starter before we found out he sucks ass. 2 games with hoyer and you are going to throw him under the bus?
let me guess we should pick manziel and then from there pick every OSU player at position of need.
if braxton miller was in this draft would you be on his dick worse than manziel's?
who says we have to pick a QB @4? you? yeah i've seen your mocks and they all involve hyde and shazier and prob roby as well.
you gotta have a hardon the size of columbus thinking we might sign whitner.
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You seen that once in a highlight play on sportscenter and now it's embedded in your brain on playback. Go watch a full game
Misses WRs and takes off? How about plenty of times on his highlight reels.
The Manziel lovers are gonna see what they want to see about him- and I guess it's hopeless at this point to try and change anyone's opinion.
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QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
I seriously doubt Farmer and Pettine are going to use the #4 pick on a "chance". They're going to feel 100% sure the guy they take there is going to impact the team in a big way. You want to take chances, head to your local casino.
QB trumps all other positions only if the talent is there when you pick. I believe that's called "drafting for need". And it can get your team screwed for years. Just ask the Vikings and Jaguars who took Ponder and Gabbert because they "needed" a qb. If the Browns FO (not me) decides there's an impact player at a position other than qb that's less a risk- you take that other position player.
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Its gotta be QB at the 4th.If not then they really are sold on hoyer.But I don't think they are, if they aren't then they gotta either trade for a QB or draft one.But theres no way if they are not sold on hoyer they don't grab one of the three QBs.
Not getting a QB equals 5-11 or 6-10
Drafting Manziel and him busting equals 5-11 or 6-10
Drafting Manziel and hitting is 10 years of excitement and wins.
You gotta go for it,dont and your gonna lose anyway
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@walterwhite said:
This is one of the most illogical analysis every and here's why:
EVERY PICK IS A GAMBLE no matter what the position. THERE IS NO SUCH THINGS AS A SAFE PICK, PERIOD.
Steelers fans HATED the Big Ben pick at first because they wanted to trade up for Philip Rivers or Eli Manning
Packers fans were up in arms about Rogers because they felt Favre had 5+ years left.
The Panthers made a HUGE investment in Cam Newton.
People like you act like you can only draft a QB if his name is Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning and those guys are once every 10 years.
I remember when we drafted Richardson and everyone thought it was a "can't miss pick" just like Aaron Curry and millions of other colossal top 5 bust that weren't QB's.
Even Pettine said the day he was hired QB was the most important position on the field.
Anyone with a football IQ knows that trumps it.
You haven't been on this board long enough to know my astute draft acumen. FWIW, I wanted the Browns to draft Rothlisberger- if you look at my profile- I live right down the road from Miami of Ohio- and I saw plenty of Ben in college. Re: TR? Everybody? Not me pal. I fumed that we wasted a #3 on Richardson (and gave up picks on top of it)..Knew Braylon Edwards came with a rap of bad hands out of Michigan, thought Quinn would bust. Loved the Joe Thomas and Haden picks. Wanted the Browns to take Ladanian Tomlinson instead of Fatass Warren. Personally, my track record in the first round is better than Lombardi's.
Yeah WW, I don't like Manziel either- for reasons I'm not going to bother to repeat. I've missed on a few- and when I do, I admit I'm wrong. It's people like you that want to swing for the damn fences striking out on inferior qb talent setting the team back 2-3 years with every miss.
No one is saying qb isn't important- and I sure haven't. Sure every pick is a gamble. Some are riskier than others. If you haven't been paying attention, there's a whole lot of scouts saying Manziel is the riskiest pick out of the qbs likely to go high..
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It tends to stink up this board when a few know-it-alls start getting
outraged that other people have opinions that differ from their
"expert" opinions, and go to the insults.
I don't recall any "expert" getting the NFL draft right, for every team, or any team, ever.
Antagonistic, "outraged experts" are more like Mike Scumbardi on too much
tequila and a giant bag of popcorn - totally full of crap and they don't know it.
Just because qb, as Farmer noted, is the most important, etc...doesn't mean that
this crowd of top qb's this year, contains THAT qb for the Browns. It's shortsighted
and invalid thinking - Banner/Scumbardi style - with this idea to just draft a qb and take a chance with the 4th pick overall.
You must have a dynamic, immediate impact player with that first pick. If that qb isn't there, why would anybody,
(except for the afforementioned "experts", draft one just because of the position? Ryan Leaf, any expert, now?
The nfl draft is like a game of chess. If you need a qb, and that "sure thing immediate impact qb ability" qb
is there, sure. But if you see your "overlooked" qb as Tom Brady in the sixth round, it would be ridiculous
to take him in the top five of the first round.
You find the players that fit, bigtime, and you take them where you figure you can, preferably
a round early if you think you need to....
Thing is, qb is so important and in demand, that they keep ending up high in the first round,,,
even when they don't really fit, don't see the field, don't have the intangibles...and don't have
the character...like a Ryan Leaf.
If you have a superbowl type of team, you can take chances. But the Browns are building a winner,
finally, with a gm in place that played the game, and has his head screwed on very, very smartly.
There weren't any questions about Luck, or rothlicksrapistbooger, that made them risky picks.
There are very significant questions about every top qb in this draft. So, if it was me, I wouldn't
take the chance, unless I was an Ozzie Newsome or Farmer type of smart judge of talent, and knew better.
The ratbirds drafted Boller with the 19th pick in the first round. NO, they didn't trade a lot of valuable
draft picks to trade up to the top three to make sure they got him. Rapistbooger was 11th.
Come on. Russel Wilson - SUPER BOWL WINNER. He wasn't drafted until the 12th pick of the third round.
You know talent, and you get your guys where you can get them. If you don't really know talent,
then you keep drafting media hyped players way too high, usually from their stats on paper,
and some college game video.
You have your list of talents, mix in needs, add in appraisals of other teams' needs etc...
it's more complicated than a banner or scumbardi thinks.
A lot of NFL veterans who retire, have said emotion is a huge part of the game. Anybody see emotion in
the likes of Campbell, Weedone, Quinn, Anderson? At least Boller and Ben Raperbooger had emotion
and the arm.
If that sure thing? immediate impact kind of talent isn't there for you high in the first round at qb,
you pick another position where that "sure thing" talent IS there.
Enough with the media hype, the "looks grrrreat on paper", etc. Farmer and Pettine know better.
Draft Manziel at 4? When some scouts wouldn't take him in the first round? We're back to Banner
and Scumbardi.
Even Watkins could end up being a party guy, with a failed dope test later on. Or not.
If it was me, I'd draft Mack at 4, maybe a small trade down with the Vikings and draft Moseley,
given the choices. They are the immediate can't miss players at the top of the draft, that
will make any team that gets them very, very happy.
Maybe a favorite chance at qb, or pick a wr or OG at 26. Who knows? Nobody.
Whoever Farmer, Pettine and co. draft, they KNOW what they are lookiing for, and where they
can get em. I just wish the draft was sooner. I'll know that they made the smartest choices possible.
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JF all the way.....
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JF all the way.....
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Teddy is the pick
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
QB trumps all positions. If you dont have one, you need one. We have the ammo to get our favorite guy this year. If we have to use the 4 on him to get him, then thats what hes worth. If we dont think we can get him at 26 and were not comfortable passing him by, it is what it is. If they take Carr at 26 and they have him 34th on their big board, does it matter? If we get the QB position shored up, were a playoff team. The CHANCE of that being the case is worth the 4 pick alone.
uh, hoyer. duh?
i mean we gave brandon fuckin weeden 2 years as the starter before we found out he sucks ass. 2 games with hoyer and you are going to throw him under the bus?
let me guess we should pick manziel and then from there pick every OSU player at position of need.
if braxton miller was in this draft would you be on his dick worse than manziel's?
who says we have to pick a QB @4? you? yeah i've seen your mocks and they all involve hyde and shazier and prob roby as well.
you gotta have a hardon the size of columbus thinking we might sign whitner.
Really Mik? C'mon man. Im not really biased on OSU players. Im the guy saying pump the brakes on Hyde. I never singled out any QB, you thought of Manziel. Im not sure which if any Id take. I was responding to Gunner's rant on TCPO. Im also not against Hoyer starting (if he wins the job). But I do know for a fact, we have to add competition.uh, hoyer. duh?
i mean we gave brandon fuckin weeden 2 years as the starter before we found out he sucks ass. 2 games with hoyer and you are going to throw him under the bus?
let me guess we should pick manziel and then from there pick every OSU player at position of need.
if braxton miller was in this draft would you be on his dick worse than manziel's?
who says we have to pick a QB @4? you? yeah i've seen your mocks and they all involve hyde and shazier and prob roby as well.
you gotta have a hardon the size of columbus thinking we might sign whitner.
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I'm not sure if JFF has the arm for the AFCN. Here is a video with him in perfect passing conditions and he floats a lot of passes.
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Can we put him in Weeden's body?
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Seriously though, a fair amount of wobble on some of those passes.
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It tends to stink up this board when a few know-it-alls start getting
outraged that other people have opinions that differ from their
"expert" opinions, and go to the insults.
I don't recall any "expert" getting the NFL draft right, for every team, or any team, ever.
Antagonistic, "outraged experts" are more like Mike Scumbardi on too much
tequila and a giant bag of popcorn - totally full of crap and they don't know it.
Just because qb, as Farmer noted, is the most important, etc...doesn't mean that
this crowd of top qb's this year, contains THAT qb for the Browns. It's shortsighted
and invalid thinking - Banner/Scumbardi style - with this idea to just draft a qb and take a chance with the 4th pick overall.
You must have a dynamic, immediate impact player with that first pick. If that qb isn't there, why would anybody,
(except for the afforementioned "experts", draft one just because of the position? Ryan Leaf, any expert, now?
The nfl draft is like a game of chess. If you need a qb, and that "sure thing immediate impact qb ability" qb
is there, sure. But if you see your "overlooked" qb as Tom Brady in the sixth round, it would be ridiculous
to take him in the top five of the first round.
You find the players that fit, bigtime, and you take them where you figure you can, preferably
a round early if you think you need to....
Thing is, qb is so important and in demand, that they keep ending up high in the first round,,,
even when they don't really fit, don't see the field, don't have the intangibles...and don't have
the character...like a Ryan Leaf.
If you have a superbowl type of team, you can take chances. But the Browns are building a winner,
finally, with a gm in place that played the game, and has his head screwed on very, very smartly.
There weren't any questions about Luck, or rothlicksrapistbooger, that made them risky picks.
There are very significant questions about every top qb in this draft. So, if it was me, I wouldn't
take the chance, unless I was an Ozzie Newsome or Farmer type of smart judge of talent, and knew better.
The ratbirds drafted Boller with the 19th pick in the first round. NO, they didn't trade a lot of valuable
draft picks to trade up to the top three to make sure they got him. Rapistbooger was 11th.
Come on. Russel Wilson - SUPER BOWL WINNER. He wasn't drafted until the 12th pick of the third round.
You know talent, and you get your guys where you can get them. If you don't really know talent,
then you keep drafting media hyped players way too high, usually from their stats on paper,
and some college game video.
You have your list of talents, mix in needs, add in appraisals of other teams' needs etc...
it's more complicated than a banner or scumbardi thinks.
A lot of NFL veterans who retire, have said emotion is a huge part of the game. Anybody see emotion in
the likes of Campbell, Weedone, Quinn, Anderson? At least Boller and Ben Raperbooger had emotion
and the arm.
If that sure thing? immediate impact kind of talent isn't there for you high in the first round at qb,
you pick another position where that "sure thing" talent IS there.
Enough with the media hype, the "looks grrrreat on paper", etc. Farmer and Pettine know better.
Draft Manziel at 4? When some scouts wouldn't take him in the first round? We're back to Banner
and Scumbardi.
Even Watkins could end up being a party guy, with a failed dope test later on. Or not.
If it was me, I'd draft Mack at 4, maybe a small trade down with the Vikings and draft Moseley,
given the choices. They are the immediate can't miss players at the top of the draft, that
will make any team that gets them very, very happy.
Maybe a favorite chance at qb, or pick a wr or OG at 26. Who knows? Nobody.
Whoever Farmer, Pettine and co. draft, they KNOW what they are lookiing for, and where they
can get em. I just wish the draft was sooner. I'll know that they made the smartest choices possible.
It tends to stink up this board when a few know-it-alls start getting
outraged that other people have opinions that differ from their
"expert" opinions, and go to the insults.
Antagonistic, "outraged experts" are more like Mike Scumbardi on too much
tequila and a giant bag of popcorn - totally full of crap and they don't know it.
You must have a dynamic, immediate impact player with that first pick. If that qb isn't there, why would anybody,(except for the aforementioned "experts", draft one just because of the position? Ryan Leaf, any expert, now?
You find the players that fit, bigtime, and you take them where you figure you can, preferablya round early if you think you need to....
Thing is, qb is so important and in demand, that they keep ending up high in the first round,,,
even when they don't really fit, don't see the field, don't have the intangibles...and don't have
the character...like a Ryan Leaf. edit: Ponder, Gabbert, Harrington, Leinart.....
If you have a superbowl type of team, you can take chances.
Edit: the Pack already had Farve when they drafted Rodgers, SF had Smith when the took a chance on Kap.
But the Browns are building a winner,
There weren't any questions about Luck, or rothlicksrapistbooger, that made them risky picks.
There are very significant questions about every top qb in this draft. So, if it was me, I wouldn't
take the chance, unless I was an Ozzie Newsome or Farmer type of smart judge of talent, and knew better.
The ratbirds drafted Boller with the 19th pick in the first round. NO, they didn't trade a lot of valuable
draft picks to trade up to the top three to make sure they got him. Rapistbooger was 11th.
You know talent, and you get your guys where you can get them. If you don't really know talent,
then you keep drafting media hyped players way too high, usually from their stats on paper,
and some college game video.
If that sure thing? immediate impact kind of talent isn't there for you high in the first round at qb,you pick another position where that "sure thing" talent IS there.
Enough with the media hype, the "looks grrrreat on paper", etc. Farmer and Pettine know better.
Draft Manziel at 4? When some scouts wouldn't take him in the first round? We're back to Banner
and Scumbardi.
Great post Cal. That's why I'm on the Watkins wagon. WW is harping on duh, Luck and Manning were once in 10 year qb prospects. Well, Watkins @ wr is to those other two @ qb. He's been called by at least one scout as "best I've seen in the last 10 years". If that's over the top, everybody else and their Grandmother is calling him "can't miss". I go far enough back to say I see a lot of Paul Warfield in Watkins.
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I'm not sure if JFF has the arm for the AFCN. Here is a video with him in perfect passing conditions and he floats a lot of passes.
I'm not sure if JFF has the arm for the AFCN. Here is a video with him in perfect passing conditions and he floats a lot of passes.
Know what I took out of that video? The guy has a serious jumping bean hopping happy feet problem on virtually every drop back- lots of wasted energy there. Tosses more than a fair share of folly floaters off his back foot too. And when he really has to crank it up on a deep pass, he has to put his entire body into the throw to get any velocity on it. No scout in their right mind is going to say he has a rocket launcher arm. My question is if he's good at throwing the ball to a spot where only his receiver can make a play on it, or just damn lucky throwing the ball into tight coverage, and his wrs consistently bail him out with great catches.
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@walterwhite said:
What if Watkins goes before the 4th pick? (very likely and I won't be upset if we draft him)
What if there is a QB there that we pick?
Who do you go after between Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel, Clowney, Mack, trade down?
Based on what I've seen, not Manziel, not Bortles (4th too high for a bit of a project QB?), maybe Bridgewater. No problem with Clowney or Mack. Trade down - depends on where to.
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@walterwhite said:
What if Watkins goes before the 4th pick? (very likely and I won't be upset if we draft him)
What if there is a QB there that we pick?
Who do you go after between Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel, Clowney, Mack, trade down?
I've said many times I won't mind a qb @ #4- just make sure it's the right qb. Bridgewater is my choice there- (Teddy thinks pass first, then runs when he has to- he's in another world when it comes to pre snap reads compared to JF) Mike H likes Bortles, that's my second choice. One of the four- Bridgewater, Bortles, Clowney, or Watkins is certain to be there @ #4, that's why I'm violently against trading up.
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So...I guess ole jonnys reply to scheme questions during the combine amounted to "ugh, I don't know. I was never coached to read defenses. They just told me to go make plays".
Seems to be the biggest reason why scouts aren't loving the kid.
Its a common question during interviews.....scout shows player a defensive set and asks him to break it down. Not often is said player unable to answer.
I have to laugh at most of you.....the opinions garnered by you "amateur scouts" just proves you need to retain your day jobs. If you couldn't see Jonny is a one read and run qb, you suck at breaking down film.
I'll rely on the opinions of those that have been through this before. Those who may still be wrong, but spend more time than you armchair GMs who only watch highlight reels. The real info is in the lowlights.....
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