Was opening day of free agency a success?
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For us to have a successful free-agency period we need to be further ahead than we were when the season ended.
We cut our losses with Bess, so that is a plus.
We lost T.J. Ward to the Broncos, that sucks. Regardless if Witner is better or not- we just had a Browns Breed ProBowl Safety walk out on us for the loathsome Broncos. That is weak. Plus his so called "buddy" Joe Haden is still on the squad- is Haden far behind?
I would have rather had DQ here on the team than Dansby. DQ's next contract will come along about where Dansby's is now in his career. DQ was good to us and for us. But, he's also one of the only pieces that left that have been around consistently, and we've still sucked. But, he's younger... and we were all already talking about finding DQ's replacement. Hopefully we draft the YOUNG FUTURE of our LB corps this draft.
Kalil Mack and Dansby would make a good 1-2 inside and then Mack takes over when Dansby runs out of gas. The good thing about FA's is: there is no emotional attachments, it's just business. Now with your own draft-picks it's a little harder to move on...
You are a terrible talent evaluator. Has anyone told you that? You may even be a worse judge of character.
By all accounts, Dansby/Whitner is an upgrade. DQs so called character didn't keep this team from being 4-12, didn't keep the defense from collapsing in every game at the end of last season, and didn't help him shed blockers which he could hardly do, nor make tackles that were anywhere near the line of scrimmage.
But, yes....we still do need some younger ILBs.
You are a terrible talent evaluator. Has anyone told you that? You may even be a worse judge of character.
What the fuck? Where does this come from. I was just messing with you about the judge comments, I've always liked you Gipper, chill doggy.
By all accounts, Dansby/Whitner is an upgrade.
I didn't say they were better or not. I just said I'd rather have DQ as he's younger and he's was our own.
DQs so called character didn't keep this team from being 4-12, didn't keep the defense from collapsing in every game at the end of last season, and didn't help him shed blockers which he could hardly do, nor make tackles that were anywhere near the line of scrimmage.
I said DQ was one of the only pieces that have been on the team consistently, and we've still sucked. I agree with you.
But, yes....we still do need some younger ILBs.
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You are a terrible talent evaluator. Has anyone told you that? You may even be a worse judge of character.
What the fuck? Where does this come from. I was just messing with you about the judge comments, I've always liked you Gipper, chill doggy.
By all accounts, Dansby/Whitner is an upgrade.
I didn't say they were better or not. I just said I'd rather have DQ as he's younger and he's was our own.
DQs so called character didn't keep this team from being 4-12, didn't keep the defense from collapsing in every game at the end of last season, and didn't help him shed blockers which he could hardly do, nor make tackles that were anywhere near the line of scrimmage.
I said DQ was one of the only pieces that have been on the team consistently, and we've still sucked. I agree with you.
But, yes....we still do need some younger ILBs.
You are a terrible talent evaluator. Has anyone told you that? You may even be a worse judge of character.
What the fuck? Where does this come from. I was just messing with you about the judge comments, I've always liked you Gipper, chill doggy.
I am talking strictly football. By poor judge of character I mean that you think that just because someone is a good guy and a supposed leader in the clubhouse, that will make him a better football player.
Character has little to do with production. Look at Barry Bonds. Probably the most despicable cat going by many, many accounts.
But even pre PED he was still one of the greatest ballplayers.
Being a good dude in the clubhouse don't mean diddley when it comes to helping a team win. I didn't mean to imply anything else by my comment. Sorry if it sounded otherwise.
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ah, okay then. I feel better, I think. LOL
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
For us to have a successful free-agency period we need to be further ahead than we were when the season ended.
We cut our losses with Bess, so that is a plus.
We lost T.J. Ward to the Broncos, that sucks. Regardless if Witner is better or not- we just had a Browns Breed ProBowl Safety walk out on us for the loathsome Broncos. That is weak. Plus his so called "buddy" Joe Haden is still on the squad- is Haden far behind?
I would have rather had DQ here on the team than Dansby. DQ's next contract will come along about where Dansby's is now in his career. DQ was good to us and for us. But, he's also one of the only pieces that left that have been around consistently, and we've still sucked. But, he's younger... and we were all already talking about finding DQ's replacement. Hopefully we draft the YOUNG FUTURE of our LB corps this draft.
Kalil Mack and Dansby would make a good 1-2 inside and then Mack takes over when Dansby runs out of gas. The good thing about FA's is: there is no emotional attachments, it's just business. Now with your own draft-picks it's a little harder to move on...
You are a terrible talent evaluator. Has anyone told you that? You may even be a worse judge of character.
By all accounts, Dansby/Whitner is an upgrade. DQs so called character didn't keep this team from being 4-12, didn't keep the defense from collapsing in every game at the end of last season, and didn't help him shed blockers which he could hardly do, nor make tackles that were anywhere near the line of scrimmage.
But, yes....we still do need some younger ILBs.
You are a terrible talent evaluator. Has anyone told you that? You may even be a worse judge of character.
By all accounts, Dansby/Whitner is an upgrade. DQs so called character didn't keep this team from being 4-12, didn't keep the defense from collapsing in every game at the end of last season, and didn't help him shed blockers which he could hardly do, nor make tackles that were anywhere near the line of scrimmage.
But, yes....we still do need some younger ILBs.
Has anyone ever told you that you may not understand the fundamentals of the game of football? Cause here's what OC's do when they know the LB'ing corp on a team is suspect.....they pick the best LB'er and run right at him. That LB'er than has to hold up the blocker (which DQ did just fine) and allow the other ILB to make the play. I was taught that when I played HS ball. DQ had no help, period. Ray Lewis never had a bum on the inside with him....ever. DQ has had nothing but mediocre..at best...talent playing with him and he still was one of the most productive LB'ers in the NFL. We should have retained him AND gotten Dansby while drafting their replacements. I understand DQ wanted out and frankly I can't blame him, so I understand that this wasn't going to happen no matter what. But to keep sitting here and chirping at DQ's production value is ridiculous. He's currently one of the best LB'ers in the NFL period. Stop with this bullshit.
And to question the character comment? Really? See this is why the Browns can't retain nice things. Because terrible fans shit all over the guys that bled for the Browns. I'm glad at least some of us realize what a rare commodity it is to have a guy playing in the upper echelons of his position and adamantly says I want to fucking here I love this place. We've had so many useless tit fucking cocksuckers come through here that I'm sorry, these guys have value beyond their pure onfield production. Blt kept Lewis around when his onfield performance fell "well" beyond that of DQ's current production. Ellerbe took on every single blocker to allow Ray to seem like he still belonged on the field. Why would they do that? Cause Ray was their captain that's why. Blt and Pgh understand this concept yet somehow we still don't get it...or at least some of us.
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We added some very good vets. However, they were to fill the holes of the departed vets we had. Did we get better, time will tell. If we would have got Byrd and Revis on the first day, then that would have been success. I would say we are in the B range for a grade. Still lots of things can happen for the good.
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I feel what you're saying Cle4life, but Gipper is a good fan and a generally good dude. I feel what he's sayin too though, no matter how good of a captain and a leader he was- it wasn't getting the job done. Should they have kept DQ and added Dansby as well? Yeah maybe, but that's a lot of scratch for players you plan on drafting replacements for, plus, if you're gonna play both then you would have little room for the replacements to get into game time situations. The LB position is crowed as it is, ya know? We've got to find ways to keep players like Sheard and Mingo on the field, plus we've got Kruger too. We've got Dansby now and also we're gonna most likely add a Draftpick to the mix.. that's a lotta guys. DQ added to that would have made it hard to manage so many.
I understand that DQ had to go. To me though he was like the Phil Dawson of Defense. old faithful. He wanted to be here but wouldn't restructure, so that's a two way street I guess. We made an attempt to both TJ and DQ, at least we tried. Maybe not hard enough, but, we tried at least.
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I feel what you're saying Cle4life, but Gipper is a good fan and a generally good dude. I feel what he's sayin too though, no matter how good of a captain and a leader he was- it wasn't getting the job done. Should they have kept DQ and added Dansby as well? Yeah maybe, but that's a lot of scratch for players you plan on drafting replacements for, plus, if you're gonna play both then you would have little room for the replacements to get into game time situations. The LB position is crowed as it is, ya know? We've got to find ways to keep players like Sheard and Mingo on the field, plus we've got Kruger too. We've got Dansby now and also we're gonna most likely add a Draftpick to the mix.. that's a lotta guys. DQ added to that would have made it hard to manage so many.
I understand that DQ had to go. To me though he was like the Phil Dawson of Defense. old faithful. He wanted to be here but wouldn't restructure, so that's a two way street I guess. We made an attempt to both TJ and DQ, at least we tried. Maybe not hard enough, but, we tried at least.
I feel what you're saying Cle4life, but Gipper is a good fan and a generally good dude. I feel what he's sayin too though, no matter how good of a captain and a leader he was- it wasn't getting the job done. Should they have kept DQ and added Dansby as well? Yeah maybe, but that's a lot of scratch for players you plan on drafting replacements for, plus, if you're gonna play both then you would have little room for the replacements to get into game time situations. The LB position is crowed as it is, ya know? We've got to find ways to keep players like Sheard and Mingo on the field, plus we've got Kruger too. We've got Dansby now and also we're gonna most likely add a Draftpick to the mix.. that's a lotta guys. DQ added to that would have made it hard to manage so many.
I understand that DQ had to go. To me though he was like the Phil Dawson of Defense. old faithful. He wanted to be here but wouldn't restructure, so that's a two way street I guess. We made an attempt to both TJ and DQ, at least we tried. Maybe not hard enough, but, we tried at least.
I understand why DQ had to go, I do. It sucks but I get that after 3-4 coaches he'd had enough and was looking to get his last contract. What I'm tired of is people chirping his production....invalidly so. If you don't understand the intricacies of the game of football than don't take to criticizing players if you don't understand the circumstances their in on the field. I criticize Krugers sack production a lot, but that's because I watched him specifically on the field both on TV and at the games and I saw glaring deficiencies on how he was trying to get around the edge. With DQ I saw him getting locked down by offensive lineman while the other unblocked LB'er was steps too late to the play. That's not on DQ. I'll be perfectly honest about DQ's strengths...it's as a 43 MLB who can range to the ball with the DL's infront of him holding up the OL's. He's obviously an adequate enough 3-4 ILB based on his production stats.
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i feel it was a complete success. we filled the 2 glaring holes because of our cuts with a bigger harder hitter with better coverage skills in whitner, who wants to be here and play in front of his hometown fans.
ward wanted top 3 safety money. sorry, you wouldn't get it from the browns.
revis and byrd would have blown half our money in a 2 person pickup, fuck both of them.
and if mack doesn't want to be here, don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. see ya fat boy.
there's plenty of big corn and wheat fed mother fuckers out there looking to take his job. or trade mack to the jets for mangold and draft a C.
no team needs to be beholden to one or two players.
the draft this year is going to be our bread and butter. watch for the offensive skill positions in WR and RB be loaded up on as well as a tackle somewhere and a taller #2 CB and LB depth on D.
with or without a QB pick i see a bright future in cleveland under the new FO and HC.
we are going to be balls to the wall bad ass on defense this year.
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You are a terrible talent evaluator. Has anyone told you that? You may even be a worse judge of character.
By all accounts, Dansby/Whitner is an upgrade. DQs so called character didn't keep this team from being 4-12, didn't keep the defense from collapsing in every game at the end of last season, and didn't help him shed blockers which he could hardly do, nor make tackles that were anywhere near the line of scrimmage.
But, yes....we still do need some younger ILBs.
Has anyone ever told you that you may not understand the fundamentals of the game of football? Cause here's what OC's do when they know the LB'ing corp on a team is suspect.....they pick the best LB'er and run right at him. That LB'er than has to hold up the blocker (which DQ did just fine) and allow the other ILB to make the play. I was taught that when I played HS ball. DQ had no help, period. Ray Lewis never had a bum on the inside with him....ever. DQ has had nothing but mediocre..at best...talent playing with him and he still was one of the most productive LB'ers in the NFL. We should have retained him AND gotten Dansby while drafting their replacements. I understand DQ wanted out and frankly I can't blame him, so I understand that this wasn't going to happen no matter what. But to keep sitting here and chirping at DQ's production value is ridiculous. He's currently one of the best LB'ers in the NFL period. Stop with this bullshit.
And to question the character comment? Really? See this is why the Browns can't retain nice things. Because terrible fans shit all over the guys that bled for the Browns. I'm glad at least some of us realize what a rare commodity it is to have a guy playing in the upper echelons of his position and adamantly says I want to fucking here I love this place. We've had so many useless tit fucking cocksuckers come through here that I'm sorry, these guys have value beyond their pure onfield production. Blt kept Lewis around when his onfield performance fell "well" beyond that of DQ's current production. Ellerbe took on every single blocker to allow Ray to seem like he still belonged on the field. Why would they do that? Cause Ray was their captain that's why. Blt and Pgh understand this concept yet somehow we still don't get it...or at least some of us.
Has anyone ever told you that you may not understand the fundamentals of the game of football? Cause here's what OC's do when they know the LB'ing corp on a team is suspect.....they pick the best LB'er and run right at him. That LB'er than has to hold up the blocker (which DQ did just fine)
The fuck he did. He was constantly run over like a cow by a train.
and allow the other ILB to make the play.
But he was always out of position and rarely in the proper gap.
I was taught that when I played HS ball. DQ had no help, period.
And he didn't help himself all that much. So, not having help is now an excuse for being run over and being out of position?
Ray Lewis never had a bum on the inside with him....ever. DQ has had nothing but mediocre..at best...talent playing with him and he still was one of the most productive LB'ers in the NFL. We should have retained him AND gotten Dansby while drafting their replacements. I understand DQ wanted out and frankly I can't blame him, so I understand that this wasn't going to happen no matter what.
I don't think he wanted out. I think he was fine with staying right here. He was comfortable. Too comfortable.
But to keep sitting here and chirping at DQ's production value is ridiculous. He's currently one of the best LB'ers in the NFL period. Stop with this bullshit.
No one in their right mind would ever call him one of the best LBs in the NFL. His "production value" to me is deceiving. He made a lot of tackles, but rarely made big plays when needed. Other teams ran up the middle on us, and threw in the middle on us because things were wide open.
Sorry, just about every game I watched I was yelling about where our MLBs were. Ask Westside Steve who I watch a lot of games with.
And to question the character comment? Really? See this is why the Browns can't retain nice things. Because terrible fans shit all over the guys that bled for the Browns.
You are a tool if you think fan behavior has a cabbage fart to do with whether or not a guy stays here. Browns fans treat Browns players far more graciously than these 4-12 talents really deserve. Money and winning keep players here, get players to come here. Browns fans are the most loyal and knowledgeable in the game.
I'm glad at least some of us realize what a rare commodity it is to have a guy playing in the upper echelons of his position and adamantly says I want to fucking here I love this place.
We do realize it: Joe Haden, Joe Thomas (DQ....not in the upper echelon)
We've had so many useless tit fucking cocksuckers come through here that I'm sorry, these guys have value beyond their pure onfield production. Blt kept Lewis around when his onfield performance fell "well" beyond that of DQ's current production. Ellerbe took on every single blocker to allow Ray to seem like he still belonged on the field. Why would they do that? Cause Ray was their captain that's why. Blt and Pgh understand this concept yet somehow we still don't get it...or at least some of us.
OK, Balt. kept on a HOFer a bit too long for his leadership and that leadership led them to a Super Bowl win. Browns kept on a mediocre LBer just a bit too long and that led them to 4-12 and a collapse of the defense. We kept him about the right amount of time.
We can go 4-12 with him, or without him. At this point, I am willing to try without.
I have nothing against DQJ except this: he just wasn't that good.
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Has anyone ever told you that you may not understand the fundamentals of the game of football? Cause here's what OC's do when they know the LB'ing corp on a team is suspect.....they pick the best LB'er and run right at him. That LB'er than has to hold up the blocker (which DQ did just fine)
The fuck he did. He was constantly run over like a cow by a train.
and allow the other ILB to make the play.
But he was always out of position and rarely in the proper gap.
I was taught that when I played HS ball. DQ had no help, period.
And he didn't help himself all that much. So, not having help is now an excuse for being run over and being out of position?
Ray Lewis never had a bum on the inside with him....ever. DQ has had nothing but mediocre..at best...talent playing with him and he still was one of the most productive LB'ers in the NFL. We should have retained him AND gotten Dansby while drafting their replacements. I understand DQ wanted out and frankly I can't blame him, so I understand that this wasn't going to happen no matter what.
I don't think he wanted out. I think he was fine with staying right here. He was comfortable. Too comfortable.
But to keep sitting here and chirping at DQ's production value is ridiculous. He's currently one of the best LB'ers in the NFL period. Stop with this bullshit.
No one in their right mind would ever call him one of the best LBs in the NFL. His "production value" to me is deceiving. He made a lot of tackles, but rarely made big plays when needed. Other teams ran up the middle on us, and threw in the middle on us because things were wide open.
Sorry, just about every game I watched I was yelling about where our MLBs were. Ask Westside Steve who I watch a lot of games with.
And to question the character comment? Really? See this is why the Browns can't retain nice things. Because terrible fans shit all over the guys that bled for the Browns.
You are a tool if you think fan behavior has a cabbage fart to do with whether or not a guy stays here. Browns fans treat Browns players far more graciously than these 4-12 talents really deserve. Money and winning keep players here, get players to come here. Browns fans are the most loyal and knowledgeable in the game.
I'm glad at least some of us realize what a rare commodity it is to have a guy playing in the upper echelons of his position and adamantly says I want to fucking here I love this place.
We do realize it: Joe Haden, Joe Thomas (DQ....not in the upper echelon)
We've had so many useless tit fucking cocksuckers come through here that I'm sorry, these guys have value beyond their pure onfield production. Blt kept Lewis around when his onfield performance fell "well" beyond that of DQ's current production. Ellerbe took on every single blocker to allow Ray to seem like he still belonged on the field. Why would they do that? Cause Ray was their captain that's why. Blt and Pgh understand this concept yet somehow we still don't get it...or at least some of us.
OK, Balt. kept on a HOFer a bit too long for his leadership and that leadership led them to a Super Bowl win. Browns kept on a mediocre LBer just a bit too long and that led them to 4-12 and a collapse of the defense. We kept him about the right amount of time.
We can go 4-12 with him, or without him. At this point, I am willing to try without.
I have nothing against DQJ except this: he just wasn't that good.
And to question the character comment? Really? See this is why the Browns can't retain nice things. Because terrible fans shit all over the guys that bled for the Browns.
You are a tool if you think fan behavior has a cabbage fart to do with whether or not a guy stays here. Browns fans treat Browns players far more graciously than these 4-12 talents really deserve. Money and winning keep players here, get players to come here. Browns fans are the most loyal and knowledgeable in the game.
100% correct. try going 4-12 in philly and see if you don't get molotov cocktails thrown at you on the field.
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And after two decent signings on day one, day two equals silence. *shhhh* don't want to wake up the city of Cleveland.
I would have rather seen a press conference when they were completely done with their marquee signings, like adding Tate, Edelman, or some others, etc.
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the browns are infamous for just filling certain dynamic holes in FA on the first day. then they fizzle looking for a couple of others for depth or someone at a rock bottom price.
the real damage this year will be done in the draft.
i don't know how you can be down on the 3 guys we signed?
just the swagger in berea has me more excited about the browns than i've been in a long time. i think that will rub off on the players and we will be a much harder team to beat this coming year.
it's also not always about who you want to add via FA, it's about who will visit and sign with the browns. there's not a good track record of blue chip players coming here and signing with cleveland. that will have to be fixed via wins and attitude that other players will see in the coming years.
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the browns are infamous for just filling certain dynamic holes in FA on the first day. then they fizzle looking for a couple of others for depth or someone at a rock bottom price.
the real damage this year will be done in the draft.
i don't know how you can be down on the 3 guys we signed?
just the swagger in berea has me more excited about the browns than i've been in a long time. i think that will rub off on the players and we will be a much harder team to beat this coming year.
it's also not always about who you want to add via FA, it's about who will visit and sign with the browns. there's not a good track record of blue chip players coming here and signing with cleveland. that will have to be fixed via wins and attitude that other players will see in the coming years.
Well, one thing to keep in mind, the league is mandating that you spend 89% of your cap between now and 2016. And consider the fact the salary cap will go up a couple more times.the browns are infamous for just filling certain dynamic holes in FA on the first day. then they fizzle looking for a couple of others for depth or someone at a rock bottom price.
the real damage this year will be done in the draft.
i don't know how you can be down on the 3 guys we signed?
just the swagger in berea has me more excited about the browns than i've been in a long time. i think that will rub off on the players and we will be a much harder team to beat this coming year.
it's also not always about who you want to add via FA, it's about who will visit and sign with the browns. there's not a good track record of blue chip players coming here and signing with cleveland. that will have to be fixed via wins and attitude that other players will see in the coming years.
I'm not down on the signings per se, but I think they could be doing more. The OL hasn't been addressed, and we can't just fill it in with rookies. There's a lot of holes that just drafting won't fill, at least, not this year.
Not to mention, drafting players is a crap shoot. I'm not saying build through free agency. But at least you know what you're getting.
I'm certainly not against the signings when I hear the energy and attitude coming from Dansby, or the leadership of Whitner coming from a winning organization, not to mention he's from the area. I like them. Just think they could be doing more. Just me.
But I'm also a chronic complainer. Lol
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@mike-h said:
Tate was on his way to CLE today, but weather kept him out.
Not a great sales pitch.
I thought they said he was already here.
Hey, if you're looking for beaches, palm trees, and winter surfing, go to San Diego. Lol
You a man? You want to prove yourself? Play real old school, smash mouth football? Come to Cleveland.
He should have ran here! Okay, maybe not. Lol
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@mike-h said:
Haha, nice. I moved to San Diego the day after Thanksgiving.
Zero fucking regrets. Worst winter ever. It's shitting snow all over NE Ohio as we type
I want to move to San Diego, because, well, I want to surf and hug cute cuddly great white sharks. But unfortunately, I'm in a one dimensional job that limits my locations. Sucks.
Looks like I'll be heading back to Charlotte. Bummer.
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@mike-h said:
Just leased a new apartment 2 blocks from beach and bought a board. Once I learn how to stay up on it, I'll probably disappear
Pick up a surfing instruction book. Check out youtube.
Get the book "Force of Nature" by Laird Hamilton. Also, I can recommend a ton of dvds.
And there's a surfing shop I follow, that I believe is located in San Diego. Degree 33. Seem to have great reviews.
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I don't think we added too much at all. I think Dansby and Whitner are better than DQ and Ward. But we didn't really fill any holes or upgrade. We have holes at QB and at guard now. Sure Tate is getting wined and dined right now. Did we take a step forward? Mack might be gone soon.
I think we might be a little worse off.
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I don't think we added too much at all. I think Dansby and Whitner are better than DQ and Ward. But we didn't really fill any holes or upgrade. We have holes at QB and at guard now. Sure Tate is getting wined and dined right now. Did we take a step forward? Mack might be gone soon.
I think we might be a little worse off.
I don't think we added too much at all. I think Dansby and Whitner are better than DQ and Ward. But we didn't really fill any holes or upgrade. We have holes at QB and at guard now. Sure Tate is getting wined and dined right now. Did we take a step forward? Mack might be gone soon.
I think we might be a little worse off.
We haven't really filled any new holes I agree. Tate is, but that's probably the easiest hole to fix.
We shouldn't pay Mack what he wants anyway. It's a bit ridiculous IMO and center isn't terribly hard to replace.
We're the browns though. We can't upgrade every position through FA. Need to accept that to get higher flight FAs we need to cripple ourselves cap wise.
Also, there's still a couple FA guys that could fill holes. Edelman, some center, etc.
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