QB is the TOP Pick. What Happens if the Hoyer Experiment Fails?
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in your opinion. EJ Manuel would be behind the top 3 this year. Mariota = Manziel. Winston may play baseball. Were in position, and need a highly rated QB. Not sure why people are so against the QBs this year.....There's only one problem ... There is no premiere quarterback available.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
in your opinion. EJ Manuel would be behind the top 3 this year. Mariota = Manziel. Winston may play baseball. Were in position, and need a highly rated QB. Not sure why people are so against the QBs this year.....
Agreed. It is my opinion. But they all have red flags. While I know the Browns can't keep "waiting till next year" for a quarterback, I'd rather them not waste a draft pick either. I would rather they fill in all the pieces.
Mariotta definitely does not equal Manziel. Faster, Bigger/Taller, more fluid, better decision making, doesn't panic in the pocket. ( also just my opinion ... but that's what I see ).
But next year also has Hundley from UCLA ( who I also really like ), Petty from Baylor, etc.
I'm not against QB this year. Just not at 4. Again, I think they're better taking a guy in the middle rounds, and let him sit and learn, etc. Whether that's Garapolo, Murray ( undersized ), McCarron, etc.
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It's a bit of a pickle we are in when you think about it. I've changed my mind about this QB class and I don't really think any of them are a great choice at #4. 2015 may have better QBs, but unless we suck again next year, we won't be in a position to draft any of them. I think it's reasonable to expect at least 7 wins next year.
Tanking is not an option for 2015 for Farmer and Pettine. So it's either draft the QB of the future this year, plan to trade the farm in order to get him in 2015, or identify someone in 2015 that can be that guy and who will be available mid-late first round, which given nobody has a crystal ball, will, be damn hard to do, or plan to sign a QB in free agency next year. Outside of Alex Smith, Cam Newton, and Kaepernick, there isn't much to look at.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
Im betting we dont go QB with 4, and we watch to see who falls and trade up with 26 to get our guy.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Im betting we dont go QB with 4, and we watch to see who falls and trade up with 26 to get our guy.
NOOOOOOOOooooooooooo...
I just dubbed this scenario "Quinn 2.0" in another thread. Not sure I can take that nightmare again...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It's a bit of a pickle we are in when you think about it. I've changed my mind about this QB class and I don't really think any of them are a great choice at #4. 2015 may have better QBs, but unless we suck again next year, we won't be in a position to draft any of them. I think it's reasonable to expect at least 7 wins next year.
Tanking is not an option for 2015 for Farmer and Pettine. So it's either draft the QB of the future this year, plan to trade the farm in order to get him in 2015, or identify someone in 2015 that can be that guy and who will be available mid-late first round, which given nobody has a crystal ball, will, be damn hard to do, or plan to sign a QB in free agency next year. Outside of Alex Smith, Cam Newton, and Kaepernick, there isn't much to look at.
It's a bit of a pickle we are in when you think about it. I've changed my mind about this QB class and I don't really think any of them are a great choice at #4. 2015 may have better QBs, but unless we suck again next year, we won't be in a position to draft any of them. I think it's reasonable to expect at least 7 wins next year.
Tanking is not an option for 2015 for Farmer and Pettine. So it's either draft the QB of the future this year, plan to trade the farm in order to get him in 2015, or identify someone in 2015 that can be that guy and who will be available mid-late first round, which given nobody has a crystal ball, will, be damn hard to do, or plan to sign a QB in free agency next year. Outside of Alex Smith, Cam Newton, and Kaepernick, there isn't much to look at.
That's why I would also being on board trading next year's # 1, plus the # 1 from 2016, to move up to get Hundley, or Mariotta.
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It's a bit of a pickle we are in when you think about it. I've changed my mind about this QB class and I don't really think any of them are a great choice at #4. 2015 may have better QBs, but unless we suck again next year, we won't be in a position to draft any of them. I think it's reasonable to expect at least 7 wins next year.
Tanking is not an option for 2015 for Farmer and Pettine. So it's either draft the QB of the future this year, plan to trade the farm in order to get him in 2015, or identify someone in 2015 that can be that guy and who will be available mid-late first round, which given nobody has a crystal ball, will, be damn hard to do, or plan to sign a QB in free agency next year. Outside of Alex Smith, Cam Newton, and Kaepernick, there isn't much to look at.
That's why I would also being on board trading next year's # 1, plus the # 1 from 2016, to move up to get Hundley, or Mariotta.
That's why I would also being on board trading next year's # 1, plus the # 1 from 2016, to move up to get Hundley, or Mariotta.
And that is how you do it... You ID the guy you want and do what it takes, whatever it takes, to get him... even put a top player or two in the trade package.
But you ID the guy first, not say "we have to take someone who plays QB" and hope he works out.
I've said it time and time again... you always have to be looking for your next QB, but you can never let need influence your judgment.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Im betting we dont go QB with 4, and we watch to see who falls and trade up with 26 to get our guy.
NOOOOOOOOooooooooooo...
I just dubbed this scenario "Quinn 2.0" in another thread. Not sure I can take that nightmare again...
so youre against the top 3 at 4, and also at say 16-20? Past failures shouldnt stop us from making moves that makes sense. How does Brady Quinn factor in to whether whoever we pick there succeeds?NOOOOOOOOooooooooooo...
I just dubbed this scenario "Quinn 2.0" in another thread. Not sure I can take that nightmare again...
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That's why I would also being on board trading next year's # 1, plus the # 1 from 2016, to move up to get Hundley, or Mariotta.
And that is how you do it... You ID the guy you want and do what it takes, whatever it takes, to get him... even put a top player or two in the trade package.
But you ID the guy first, not say "we have to take someone who plays QB" and hope he works out.
I've said it time and time again... you always have to be looking for your next QB, but you can never let need influence your judgment.
But you can never plan on getting someone next year if you need an upgrade this year. Pick a guy out of this class. Jimmies win now attitude says he probably agrees with me.And that is how you do it... You ID the guy you want and do what it takes, whatever it takes, to get him... even put a top player or two in the trade package.
But you ID the guy first, not say "we have to take someone who plays QB" and hope he works out.
I've said it time and time again... you always have to be looking for your next QB, but you can never let need influence your judgment.
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It's all a Matter if F&P feel there is a franchise QB at 4. If not ... you load up on talent, draft a mid-round rookie, sign a vet backup and move on.
Again ... not one of last year's "Final Four" got their QB by drafting him in the first round. Sometimes it can pay off when you lay off.
Grab the guy if you love him ... but please just don't make a panic pick.
Zombo
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It's a bit of a pickle we are in when you think about it. I've changed my mind about this QB class and I don't really think any of them are a great choice at #4. 2015 may have better QBs, but unless we suck again next year, we won't be in a position to draft any of them. I think it's reasonable to expect at least 7 wins next year.
Tanking is not an option for 2015 for Farmer and Pettine. So it's either draft the QB of the future this year, plan to trade the farm in order to get him in 2015, or identify someone in 2015 that can be that guy and who will be available mid-late first round, which given nobody has a crystal ball, will, be damn hard to do, or plan to sign a QB in free agency next year. Outside of Alex Smith, Cam Newton, and Kaepernick, there isn't much to look at.
That's why I would also being on board trading next year's # 1, plus the # 1 from 2016, to move up to get Hundley, or Mariotta.
That's why I would also being on board trading next year's # 1, plus the # 1 from 2016, to move up to get Hundley, or Mariotta.
I would be on board with that, too, because at that point I hope we'd have filled all our other holes and can afford to give up that many picks.
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What happens if Brian Hoyer fails? Well let's see, probably about the same thing as if Johnny Manziel Blake Bortles or Teddy Bilgewater fail.
Except...............
We arent on the hook for 2 or 3 years of bad quarterback play and we have a top-notch starter that we took at 4 and the fans honeymoon with Brian Hoyer will probably last for 7 quarters of play instead of 3.
WSS
What happens if Brian Hoyer fails? Well let's see, probably about the same thing as if Johnny Manziel Blake Bortles or Teddy Bilgewater fail.
Except...............
We arent on the hook for 2 or 3 years of bad quarterback play and we have a top-notch starter that we took at 4 and the fans honeymoon with Brian Hoyer will probably last for 7 quarters of play instead of 3.
WSS
Exactly! If the FO believes that none of the QB's who remain are surefire picks at 4 we do not draft a QB there. We need to just within reason take the best athletes available and build a solid football team. That doesn't mean planning for a QB from next years draft either. It means picking the best athletes to make a solid team.
There is no reason from a QB perspective we can't roll into 2014 with Hoyer, a vet (King, Vick hell even Freeman) and a rookie from somwhere at 26 or lower. I think people will be surprised what is still available in the 2nd round for QB's.
I am 100% on board if they chose to take someone like Greg Robinson at 4 , top notch CB,FS or linebacker at 26, great number 2 receiver at 35 and worry about a QB after those picks. There is no reason that strategy would keep us from being a winning team in 2014.
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The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
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The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
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The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
I get this. Thing is, everyone who is saying that we should wait until next year to draft a QB is unintentionally hoping that the team is BAD enough to get another high pick in the first round in order get their man at that point.
And the problem with grabbing a QB in the later rounds this season, is that it's a waste of a pick. We don't have a franchise guy now and looking to the future to replace him. We have Hoyer, who at best will serve as a decent stop-gap for a year or two. We take a flyer on a guy and cross fingers that he's the future franchise player, we're going to end up in a cycle of perpetually looking for that guy.
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Hoyer failing is as likely as Gordon failing a piss test. If that happens I don't give a shot who we have at QB we aren't winning any ball games.
I just don't see a superstar QB worthy of a 4 in the draft. Bortles maybe? That really only if Watkins is gone.
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Hoyer failing is as likely as Gordon failing a piss test. If that happens I don't give a shot who we have at QB we aren't winning any ball games.
I just don't see a superstar QB worthy of a 4 in the draft. Bortles maybe? That really only if Watkins is gone.
Hoyer failing is as likely as Gordon failing a piss test. If that happens I don't give a shot who we have at QB we aren't winning any ball games.
I just don't see a superstar QB worthy of a 4 in the draft. Bortles maybe? That really only if Watkins is gone.
So basically, you don't think we have a shot of improving next season at all? Is that where others are coming from too?
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The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
I get this. Thing is, everyone who is saying that we should wait until next year to draft a QB is unintentionally hoping that the team is BAD enough to get another high pick in the first round in order get their man at that point.
And the problem with grabbing a QB in the later rounds this season, is that it's a waste of a pick. We don't have a franchise guy now and looking to the future to replace him. We have Hoyer, who at best will serve as a decent stop-gap for a year or two. We take a flyer on a guy and cross fingers that he's the future franchise player, we're going to end up in a cycle of perpetually looking for that guy.
I get this. Thing is, everyone who is saying that we should wait until next year to draft a QB is unintentionally hoping that the team is BAD enough to get another high pick in the first round in order get their man at that point.
And the problem with grabbing a QB in the later rounds this season, is that it's a waste of a pick. We don't have a franchise guy now and looking to the future to replace him. We have Hoyer, who at best will serve as a decent stop-gap for a year or two. We take a flyer on a guy and cross fingers that he's the future franchise player, we're going to end up in a cycle of perpetually looking for that guy.
Not necessarily. Trading down could include a 1st round pick next year. Just make the deal with a bad team that will likely get a high 1st round pick next year and hope for the best.
Admittedly not a likely scenario, just sayin'.
As others have observed, if a QB has been targeted for next year then trading up to get him is an option...assuming the team can afford to lose the picks needed for the trade.
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I think if you're set on a QB next year, trading the Indy pick for a 1st next year is probably a good plan.
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Hoyer failing is as likely as Gordon failing a piss test. If that happens I don't give a shot who we have at QB we aren't winning any ball games.
I just don't see a superstar QB worthy of a 4 in the draft. Bortles maybe? That really only if Watkins is gone.
So basically, you don't think we have a shot of improving next season at all? Is that where others are coming from too?
So basically, you don't think we have a shot of improving next season at all? Is that where others are coming from too?
nobody is saying that at all. (some people just don't get it.)
we've got a guy already pinned as our starter. i could put brian hoyer in a bortles mask and he'd show you all the same throws except you'd say "he lost some bulk". i could put him in black face and he'd look better than bridgewater did at his pro day and you'd be like"we gotta get this guy." so on and so forth.
teams have hitched their wagons to less. tomczak? mark malone? and we're talking super bowl champions.
the fact is you don't panic because some schlub with greasy hair claims that this is the best QB class to come along in a while. (btw it isn't. it's the best WR draft). i'll guarantee you they'll be doing the same song and dance next year. that's their job. they'll be all over hundley and mariotta like flies on shit. and so will you. god forbid we draft some kid "who is pro-ready" throw him into the fire and looks worse than geno smith did last year (who most analysts say would have graded out better than any of these guys this year and would be considered the #1 QB) and then all you guys that wanted him go "gosh dammit, i knew we should have waited until next year!! i know the jets wish they could go back in time right now. now they're looking at a perennial 6 game starter that kills dogs to come in and run the show.
build the team. when you find you're guy do what it takes to get him.
who knows hoyer might surprise us all and we won't have such an URGENCY by some of you to get the next johnny unitas.
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so youre against the top 3 at 4, and also at say 16-20? Past failures shouldnt stop us from making moves that makes sense. How does Brady Quinn factor in to whether whoever we pick there succeeds?NOOOOOOOOooooooooooo...
I just dubbed this scenario "Quinn 2.0" in another thread. Not sure I can take that nightmare again...
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
so youre against the top 3 at 4, and also at say 16-20? Past failures shouldn't stop us from making moves that makes sense. How does Brady Quinn factor in to whether whoever we pick there succeeds?
IMO Bortles is the only one that makes sense @ #4- and he'll probably be gone. Bridgewater could easily be a new rendition of the oft injured Sam Bradford. Manziel's game may not translate to the pros. Carr shows Weeden tendencies to collapse under pressure.
The guys who are hot to push all the chips in on a qb this year are prematurely throwing Hoyer under the bus, just my .02 .
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
But you can never plan on getting someone next year if you need an upgrade this year. Pick a guy out of this class. Jimmies win now attitude says he probably agrees with me.
You're totally missing the point- you don't draft for need if the talent isn't there. I'll take a Mack or Watkins over any of the top qbs. BTW, a "win now" attitude rarely works with a rookie qb running the show. There isn't any Andrew Luck in this draft- sorry about that.
No, the smart thing may well be to follow (hate to say it) the Steelers model- draft your franchise qb last. Incidentally, that also worked quite well for Kansas City last year-via a trade. As was pointed out- none of last year's NFL Final Four drafted their qb in the first round. Of last year's top 20 qbs- only 10 were drafted in the top 5, so if we have a guy targeted in 2015, it may well be possible to trade up then to grab him.
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The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
^ Thanks, h.... saved me the time...
The hell with next year. Last year everyone thought this was the year of the QB in the draft. There's starting NFL quarterbacks in this draft, and we have the picks now to get one.
"Starting" is not the bar I am looking to clear. We already have a starter IMO.
I get this. Thing is, everyone who is saying that we should wait until next year to draft a QB is unintentionally hoping that the team is BAD enough to get another high pick in the first round in order get their man at that point.
And the problem with grabbing a QB in the later rounds this season, is that it's a waste of a pick. We don't have a franchise guy now and looking to the future to replace him. We have Hoyer, who at best will serve as a decent stop-gap for a year or two. We take a flyer on a guy and cross fingers that he's the future franchise player, we're going to end up in a cycle of perpetually looking for that guy.
As mik already has pointed out, not saying that at all... unintentionally or otherwise.
Crossed-fingers is your plan? Holy shit!
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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