QB is the TOP Pick. What Happens if the Hoyer Experiment Fails?

Canton Mike

@hoorta said:

1) I'll beg to differ with you about Rice.

2) Sorry it can be the other way around too. AJ Green makes Andy Dalton look way better than he is. Opens things up for the other wideouts and TEs too. Once again, the qb huggers are throwing Hoyer under the bus- prematurely IMHO. And dammit, I'm not saying don't draft a qb- just proceed with extreme caution in this draft class.

3) You absolutely can draft a wr high- if he's an exceptional talent. Hate to tell you, more than one scout has Watkins as the best wr prospect since AJ Green- possibly better. Let me refresh your memory about wide receivers that got drafted in the top 6 over the last 10 years. Green, Julio Jones, Megatron, Larry Fitzgerald. Only busts? Butterfingers Braylon- who never should have been drafted in the top 10, and Blackmon, who may yet come around if he can stay off booze and drugs. That's a 66% success rate (maybe 80%) of drafting a stud- and it's damn better odds than taking a flyer on questionable QB talent.

4) I notice you didn't mention the glaring hole at ILB that is Crag Robertson either. Mack, Clowney or Watkins. There's your short list of sure-fire All-pros. Bortles is the surest of the qbs, but he won't be on the board unless the Browns stupidly do an RGIII sell the ranch deal to move up and get him. Incidentally, the Lions drafted Stafford after Megatron, the Steelers drafted Ben after everything else was in place- Gips had a stat that you don't necessarily have to draft your stud qb in the top 5.

I like the above, other than I question Clowney's work/performance ethic & I'm still not sold on Bortles. Mack or Watkins are the ONLY players in this draft I would be totally comfortable without question at 4, & I still think the safest QB picks are McCarron & Garoppolo a little further down in the draft. Those are just my opinions & the REAL experts will surely differ. I defer to their better judgement, whatever that may be. Who knows? They may trade #4 for a #1 next year along with another lower #1 or #2 this year, or ??? Guess we'll see in May, hunh?

Mike

Represent

I would love JF in Cleveland we need some SWAG, but i am convinced we will take Sammy if he is still on the board.

thenew23

@hoorta said:
So you're into wasting the #4 overall pick on potentially inferior talent just becaue you have qb fixation? How does having two #1 wideouts (Watkins) on the same team sound? Sure let's pass on another potential Brian Urlacher (Mack) for Jimmy Clausen or Joey Harrington.

@miktoxic said:

put your money where your mouth is.

i'm bettin we don't.

don't feel sorry for me when you're sending me a six of suds, that is of course, if you've got the balls.

I'm not doing the drafting, and I'm not fixated on QB, but I won't be surprised when we draft one. And Hoorta... how the hell can you compare Mack to Urlacher... Mack has never once played ILB, which is the position everybody wants him at. Makes no sense.

Sure, you want Watkins?? He's the next Charles Rogers. How about Matthews?? He's the next Robert Gallery. Quit acting like you or me are doing the drafting... I don't know where Farmer ranks these guys, but you bet if he sees a QB as a potential franchise guy, he's drafting him... plain and simple

RuffRuffRuff

We need to take this draft for what it is. A bountiful one full of talented players, but unfortunately not at the QB position. Draft best player available, rounds 1 through 3; then look for your QB and add depth. If Hoyer pans out, we are in good shape. If he doesn't, pull a Ditka next year and package all of our picks for #1 and get Mariota. That is, unless we are soooo bad, we get in the top 5 again next year.

Flyin J

@thenew23 said:

I'm not doing the drafting, and I'm not fixated on QB, but I won't be surprised when we draft one. And Hoorta... how the hell can you compare Mack to Urlacher... Mack has never once played ILB, which is the position everybody wants him at. Makes no sense.

~exactly, were drafting a QB....but where? Urlacher was a Safety in college.~

Sure, you want Watkins?? He's the next Charles Rogers. How about Matthews?? He's the next Robert Gallery. Quit acting like you or me are doing the drafting... I don't know where Farmer ranks these guys, but you bet if he sees a QB as a potential franchise guy, he's drafting him... plain and simple

~Everyone wants to act like they know more than the rest this time of year, and they were probably right, lets hope this year is different.~

hoorta

@ruffruffruff said:
We need to take this draft for what it is. A bountiful one full of talented players, but unfortunately not at the QB position. Draft best player available, rounds 1 through 3; then look for your QB and add depth. If Hoyer pans out, we are in good shape. If he doesn't, pull a Ditka next year and package all of our picks for #1 and get Mariota. That is, unless we are soooo bad, we get in the top 5 again next year.

^+1 in essence, that's what I'm saying.

ballpeen

That is kind of why I would like to tade down out of #4 and gain a 1st rounder for next year. We could drop to 10-12 and still get a receiver every bit as good as Watkins....if receiver is the direction we go, I don't want to go that way, but won't get all bunched up like some others might if they don't get their choice. I'd rather drop some and then add a top corner.

Harry Buffalo

My whole thought process at the moment is that I have yet to hear anyone consider these QB's to be "elite". Everyone says Bridgewater is the most pro ready option, Manziel has the biggest boom/bust potential, and the Bortles has the the best potential as a true future franchise QB. The problem is no one can even claim with better than a 50/50 shot that any of these guys will be decent future starters in the NFL. Will Bridgewater get better or is he leveled out already? Will Manziel's play style translate to the NFL and will he be able to remain healthy for 10 years? Will Bortles be able to overcome his mechanic issues and learn to better make his throwing reads? With questions like these, the QB's wouldn't be picked in the top 5 on a normal year, let along a year that is so packed with top tier talent, talent that has been called once every 3, 5, and 10 year kind of talent at respective positions.

This issue is there ARE teams that are likely going to take one of these QB's in the top 5-10, and if we don't take one then there is a 95% chance none of them, or even Carr for that matter, will be available to use by pick #26. So the true question is do we flip the coin one one of these guys at #4 hoping that we look like geniuses in 4 years, or do we take one of the many sure things that will be available to us?

I have said it before and I will say it again, unless we can trade back somehow in order to get more picks and grab one of these guys later, I want one of the sure things. I want Watkins, or Mack. Robinson is not an option. I think at #26 or #35 we can get either Carr or Garoppolo. I think Carr has just as much boom or bust potential as the top three guys and I honestly feel Garoppolo is the best option out of the top 5, but only falls because he doesn't have the least amount of arm strength in the group. But my feeling is arm strength can be damned. Plenty of QB's have shown that over time their arm strength improves as time goes on. I am more worried about accuracy and timing which Garoppolo excels at. Especially since we are moving back to a WCO type of offense, that kind of talent is invaluable.

Tour2ma

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
~Everyone wants to act like they know more than the rest this time of year, and they were probably right, lets hope this year is different.~

I think it is more a case that some show they know much less...

@ruffruffruff said:
We need to take this draft for what it is. A bountiful one full of talented players, but unfortunately not at the QB position. Draft best player available, rounds 1 through 3; then look for your QB and add depth. If Hoyer pans out, we are in good shape. If he doesn't, pull a Ditka next year and package all of our picks for #1 and get Mariota. That is, unless we are soooo bad, we get in the top 5 again next year.

Not bad for a noob...

miktoxic

@thenew23 said:

I'm not doing the drafting, and I'm not fixated on QB, but I won't be surprised when we draft one. And Hoorta... how the hell can you compare Mack to Urlacher... Mack has never once played ILB, which is the position everybody wants him at. Makes no sense.

Sure, you want Watkins?? He's the next Charles Rogers. How about Matthews?? He's the next Robert Gallery. Quit acting like you or me are doing the drafting... I don't know where Farmer ranks these guys, but you bet if he sees a QB as a potential franchise guy, he's drafting him... plain and simple

dude. we just called you out on your statement "to all you QB haters, sorry we're picking QB with our first pick!"

so if you believe that, i say we don't. how about put your money where your mouth is (once again. or did you just totally gloss over the fact that a couple of us called you out?)

RoyceRolls

Browns board= QB, or not QB: that is the question.

I genuinely don't care what the Browns do at #4 anymore.

Farmer will net a talented starter regardless of his position.

The worst part is that even after the draft, the conversation will simply shift from "who should we draft" to "who we should've drafted"

People will keep licking their opinion and slapping it onto the opinion of a self-proclaimed "draft guru" with a blog.

cambridgeho

@roycerolls said:

Browns board= QB, or not QB: that is the question.

I genuinely don't care what the Browns do at #4 anymore.

Farmer will net a talented starter regardless of his position.

The worst part is that even after the draft, the conversation will simply shift from "who should we draft" to "who we should've drafted"

People will keep licking their opinion and slapping it onto the opinion of a self-proclaimed "draft guru" with a blog.

Happens all the time. We will see a melt t down if we dont draft Carr also.

tml1138

Since everyone is playing the guessing game, I'll throw my guess out there as well...

We can all agree that we have what looks like intelligent football guys in charge of this draft, correct? I don't see Farmer and Pettine having panic-picks and man-crushes on any player. They will be more methodical in their choices.

Because of the available talent outside QB position in this draft, I see them using one of the first round picks and trading the other one out (with some of the later ones too) for 2015. Which first round pick they trade out will depend on who falls next in line to them. And why trade out for 2015? So they can move up and get the guy they want next year. Farmer has already said he favors Mariota. Could be a smoke screen, but I believe it's truth. If a smoke-screen, why name exactly who he likes in next year's draft?

Yeah so I'm not making any bold predictions here on what exact player they will pick and with what # pick. But honestly I can't. What I will boldly predict is no QB will be chosen in the first round. If Banner/Lombardi were still in charge I'd say we are getting a QB @ 4, most likely JF and that's that. But it's a whole different ball game now and hell yeah for that!

Summarized point: no top QB pick this year, trade down for ammo next year. This means run with Hoyer this year and pick up a vet to add depth to the position. If Hoyer succeeds, maybe they will rethink their plans next year. The only curveball (if I can really call it that) is they might grab a later round QB if they see value in it at the time. Like someone who they thought would be gone in the 2nd round but he's still there in the 3rd...

To those that think "we must pick a top QB NOW or we'll never be any good!!", I just don't see Farmer/Pettine thinking that way. Nope.

gftChris

tml - pretty much agree with everything there, spot on IMO.

Tour2ma

Personally I'm not trying to predict what Farmer would do; I'm trying to figure out what I would do if I had Farmer's job.

And of course the result of my work is my opinion.

Whose else would it be?

And who else would want it?

I am constantly amazed that people take disagreement so personally.

Flyin J

@tour2ma said:

Personally I'm not trying to predict what Farmer would do; I'm trying to figure out what I would do if I had Farmer's job.

And of course the result of my work is my opinion.

Whose else would it be?

And who else would want it?

I am constantly amazed that people take disagreement so personally.

you'd think the ability to debate these issues and scenarios would be the main people come to this Board. But no, they just want to dump THEIR perfect scenario on your face and expect you to lick it all up and beg for more, eventually when word gets out, they'll be named GM of the Cleveland Browns.

MasterDog

@sienn13 said:
There isn't a worthwhile QB to take in the first round! If you think there is you smoking fucking crack and need to get off the flavor off the weeks jock so you quit embarrassing yourselves. JF, BB or any other one that you people are so fucking on your knees mouth wide open are not worth the 4'th, 26th or the first pick in the second round. Your probably the same trash that was wanting to pick Quinn over Thomas in 07.

+1

thenew23

@miktoxic said:

dude. we just called you out on your statement "to all you QB haters, sorry we're picking QB with our first pick!"

so if you believe that, i say we don't. how about put your money where your mouth is (once again. or did you just totally gloss over the fact that a couple of us called you out?)

It all depends on IF Farmer & co. see a QB they think can be a starter. I can't read their mind, so why the fu** would I bet on that. Everybody is entitled to their opinion about the top 3 QBs, but I just think, given the depth of the draft and the amount of picks we have, we have the option to "gamble" our first pick on a potential franchise QB.

Not saying that's what I WANT them to do... Not saying that's the BEST thing to do... Just saying that's what I THINK they will do...

But seriously, you got a problem if you want to "call me out," and ask me to "put my money where my mouth is." Calm the fu** down and listen to some other thoughts... You're not the GM, and YOU'RE game analysis / tape analysis / needs analysis / hopes / dreams / desires don't mean sh**, same as mine... same as everybody else not named Pettine, Farmer, or Haslam...

Go Browns!

Flyin J

@mike-h said:
You're wrong

with some of these people....I dont think so hahaha

miktoxic

worse time of year for NFL fans. FA is dwindling down so the big target staring us straight in our face is the draft and everyone wants it the way they want it to go.

i mean why would it be any other way?

just cuz this guy writes a blog or is a talking head on some sports network, should that mean he knows more than me or you when it comes to what WE think is the formula to create a winner by adding the young talent WE want added? hell no.

it's fun for a second until everyone digs their feet in and either declares with you, against you or stays neutral. until the draft actually happens it's like fellow fans of the same team being on a survivor island with each person and their opinion trying to claw to the top of a bloody heap of friends.