Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Oh, cut the shit it already.
He was offered a deal by Nike, he took it. He's not a sellout, he's a 21 year old.
You'd take the same deal. No I wouldn't.
Show me anywhere...anywhere...where he made comments about outselling anyone, branding himself, see below marketing himself, making money, etc.
Every comment at every interview has been about football. Not Nike. Not making money. Winning football games. Then he goes out and has a solid Pro Day, better than the previously thought #1 QB, and you're complaining because Nike is selling his Pro Day jersey to turn a profit? Get over yourself.
Wearing pads and a helmet was a great decision, regardless of the marketing ploy from his manager. You wear pads and a helmet in games, why would you throw without them on a day where you're trying to showcase your skills? It was a ballsy move that paid off and will probably change Pro Days from now on.
You're mad because he hired a marketing manager? That's like getting pissed because a player hires an agent.
So let me just try and list this out to make sense of it:
Pros
-Unbelievable athlete
-Played against top tier talent.
-Played in National spotlight
-Put up video game numbers
-Has natural accuracy and great internal clock
Cons
-Hired marketing major
-Got drunk in college
-Isn't 6'5" 230.
-You don't like his face
That about sum it up?
Here's all you need to know- Johnny Football
If that's not selling out, I don't know what is. He can shove that up his ass. Only difference between him and Desean Jackson I can see is he doesn't hang out with gangs, and hasn't played a snap in the NFL yet. Yeah, I've made no secret I don't like him. And I'm fervently hoping the Browns don't either. We're trying to build a team in Cleveland, not a media circus- which is what's going to happen to the team that drafts Manziel- take it to the bank. EDIT: As reported below- there's pretty good evidence JF was already getting paid under the table for his "autograph sessions"- to the tune of $30 a pop. .As above he's in the process of copyrighting "the brand"- guess I'm just too old school to think win a SB or two (like Peyton with Papa John's or Rodgers with State Farm) before you whore yourself out for maximum $$$ RGIII wherefore art thy Subway commercials now? I laugh at you. Maybe if JF really was really into football- he'd take the Andrew Luck approach, instead of taking every marketing opportunity shoved in his face. Haven't seen Andy pulling that sort of commercial shit- because he doesn't have to. Funny Bortles and Bridgewater haven't seen the need either. If that's the way JF wants to make his money, more power to him- that doesn't mean I have to like his style of doing so.
Once again, you're mad because the guy hired a marketing manager.Here's all you need to know- Johnny Football
If that's not selling out, I don't know what is. He can shove that up his ass. Only difference between him and Desean Jackson I can see is he doesn't hang out with gangs, and hasn't played a snap in the NFL yet. Yeah, I've made no secret I don't like him. And I'm fervently hoping the Browns don't either. We're trying to build a team in Cleveland, not a media circus- which is what's going to happen to the team that drafts Manziel- take it to the bank. EDIT: As reported below- there's pretty good evidence JF was already getting paid under the table for his "autograph sessions"- to the tune of $30 a pop. .As above he's in the process of copyrighting "the brand"- guess I'm just too old school to think win a SB or two (like Peyton with Papa John's or Rodgers with State Farm) before you whore yourself out for maximum $$$ RGIII wherefore art thy Subway commercials now? I laugh at you. Maybe if JF really was really into football- he'd take the Andrew Luck approach, instead of taking every marketing opportunity shoved in his face. Haven't seen Andy pulling that sort of commercial shit- because he doesn't have to. Funny Bortles and Bridgewater haven't seen the need either. If that's the way JF wants to make his money, more power to him- that doesn't mean I have to like his style of doing so.
So Manziel is a commercial sellout and shouldn't be trusted? That's fine. Neither should Manning then, who is in the top 10 of commercial endorsers in the sports world. Super sellout.
I don't think you understand how these sponsorships work. Companies want the big name to endorse their ads. The "old fashioned" way isn't old fashioned. It's not like there's some classy way of making money in the NFL, an elite club where Manning, Luck, Elway and Marino sit around smoking cigars and talking about how many sponsorship deals they turned down.
Manziel just got the same opportunities as Manning, Rodgers, etc. earlier than they did because he's a bigger name than them. You want to blame someone, blame ESPN. Manziel isn't the one airing 10 stories in a row about himself on Sportscenter.
So Andrew Luck doesn't do any commercial ads. That's fine. I'm sure it's not because he looks and speaks like a caveman. Nor is it because he'll never have to worry about a dime in his life. Tell me, how has the Andrew Luck approached worked for getting him to the Super Bowl?
Once again, you're getting mad because the kid hired a marketing manager, which is stupid. You don't see Bortles or Bridgewater doing that because they're not in the media half as much as Manziel is.
Russell Wilson was doing Levi ads before he even threw an NFL pass. I guess he's a shitty person, too.
You've made your opinion abundantly clear. You don't like the kid. That's fine. We're all entitled to our opinions.
Just don't try to pass it off as if you've done any sort of scouting or film watching and hate him for his game, then.
EDIT: I know firsthand that Clowney sold autographs too. Firsthand meaning that I was physically present when he charged two guys for autographs. Shouldn't take him either. Cam Newton took money to play at Auburn. Don't want him on my team. Building a team of Boy Scouts is great, just don't expect them to compete on Sundays.
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@mike-h said:
Love it, Mike. I still think the majority of Manziel bashers are older gentlemen.
I don't know. It would be interesting to see the age groups that like/don't like Manziel. We older guys grew up in a time BEFORE players were getting the "mega contracts". Those old timers played with a passion & love of the game more than for the "big bucks". Johnny seems like a throwback of sorts & that's appealing.
Mike
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Ahaha. I purposely posted a new thread on JFF for a reason. I was trying to separate from all the fanboy and hater garbage and try to dig up some real analysis from guys who watch the tape like I have. There was a reason I made a new thread. Obviously that doesn't matter though what a bunch of dickheads.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Ahaha. I purposely posted a new thread on JFF for a reason. I was trying to separate from all the fanboy and hater garbage and try to dig up some real analysis from guys who watch the tape like I have. There was a reason I made a new thread. Obviously that doesn't matter though what a bunch of dickheads.
You're the expert of the public fan board. You win. I bet you bore your family to death.
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@mike-h said:
Love it, Mike. I still think the majority of Manziel bashers are older gentlemen.
You'd probably be right Mike. Might be with long life experience us oldsters can spot a Class AAA jerk a mile away. I hope JF proves me wrong.
I'd like to thank Cal for refreshing my memory about Manziel blowing off the Manning camp, and the numerous, oh he's just a college kid having some fun incidents. Irresponsible then, so now it's going to be all about football when the big bucks start flowing in? I'll believe it when I see it.
And to Canton Mike- his passion- and recklessness- on the field, might well get him killed, if he doesn't learn how to not take unnecessary risks.
DH- If you party your ass off the day before a game, no way you can physically be at your best- and that's what you're paying these guys millions $$ to do..
& PS- I never did care for Broadway Joe Namath's antics either. Manziel will wind up in the same boat- though I won't live to see it- with a couple of artificial knees.
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@mike-h said:
Love it, Mike. I still think the majority of Manziel bashers are older gentlemen.
I'm also on the Manziel bandwagon, but not a gentleman. So the kid likes to party, hang out with the chicks, etc. If I were in his shoes I would also. It didn't affect his level of play in college. I don't think it will affect him in the Pro's either.
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Ahaha. I purposely posted a new thread on JFF for a reason. I was trying to separate from all the fanboy and hater garbage and try to dig up some real analysis from guys who watch the tape like I have. There was a reason I made a new thread. Obviously that doesn't matter though what a bunch of dickheads.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Ahaha. I purposely posted a new thread on JFF for a reason. I was trying to separate from all the fanboy and hater garbage and try to dig up some real analysis from guys who watch the tape like I have. There was a reason I made a new thread. Obviously that doesn't matter though what a bunch of dickheads.
Well one of the other Mods (not me) decided to keep all the Manziel stuff in one thread. Don't take it personally. I've had the same stuff happen to me, and even seen some of my long (and I like to think) well thought out posts get flat out deleted- not just merged, when one of the other Mods had to kill a thread. You haven't been around long enough to see the kind of havoc someone like the departed Ghoolie could cause.
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GuNNerGatSKy said:
Ahaha. I purposely posted a new thread on JFF for a reason. I was trying to separate from all the fanboy and hater garbage and try to dig up some real analysis from guys who watch the tape like I have. There was a reason I made a new thread. Obviously that doesn't matter though what a bunch of dickheads.
Well one of the other Mods (not me) decided to keep all the Manziel stuff in one thread. Don't take it personally. I've had the same stuff happen to me, and even seen some of my long (and I like to think) well thought out posts get flat out deleted- not just merged, when one of the other Mods had to kill a thread. You haven't been around long enough to see the kind of havoc someone like the departed Ghoolie could cause.
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@mike-h said:
He fuck your girlfriend?
I love this new trend of asking this question. Good tagline.
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Um, no. and the above post about the Manziel's Nike crap shows the guy is a commercial sellout already. You bring in Manziel, you bring the circus to town- MHO is Farmer and Pettine are into football, not Barnum & Bailey. JFs goal will be to out sell RGIII- that aspect about his persona makes me want to puke.
Oh, cut the shit it already.
He was offered a deal by Nike, he took it. He's not a sellout, he's a 21 year old.
You'd take the same deal.
Show me anywhere...anywhere...where he made comments about outselling anyone, branding himself, marketing himself, making money, etc.
Every comment at every interview has been about football. Not Nike. Not making money. Winning football games. Then he goes out and has a solid Pro Day, better than the previously thought #1 QB, and you're complaining because Nike is selling his Pro Day jersey to turn a profit? Get over yourself.
Wearing pads and a helmet was a great decision, regardless of the marketing ploy from his manager. You wear pads and a helmet in games, why would you throw without them on a day where you're trying to showcase your skills? It was a ballsy move that paid off and will probably change Pro Days from now on.
You're mad because he hired a marketing manager? That's like getting pissed because a player hires an agent.
So let me just try and list this out to make sense of it:
Pros
-Unbelievable athlete
-Played against top tier talent.
-Played in National spotlight
-Put up video game numbers
-Has natural accuracy and great internal clock
Cons
-Hired marketing major
-Got drunk in college
-Isn't 6'5" 230.
-You don't like his face
That about sum it up?
First, who changed my thread title!
Cons
-Hired marketing major
-Got drunk in college
-Isn't 6'5" 230.
-You don't like his face
That about sum it up?
In a word... no. Only the size is germane, although not in and of itself a disqualifier. The off-field stuff is justifiably dismissed.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
A) "JFF rarely progresses through his reads/lacks pre-snap read ability". Watching some of the Bama game and a few other snippets of Manziel film, I found this assertion to be mostly untrue.
At 0:29 we see Manziel progress through his reads from left to right, eventually settling on Evans running a deep route down the right sideline. Manziel throws a great pass where only Evans can make the catch.
At about 1:39 we see Manziel make a fantastic pre-snap read. Evans is lined up on the right side of the formation against press coverage. Manziel recognizes the press coverage and begins his read in the center of the field, quickly progressing to Evans. He floats another nice pass deep to Evans.
I know I only see what I want to see (Mike H. has said so, so it must be true), but I see something completely different.
At 0:29 I see JF looking off the safety then going to his intended-all-along Evans. Not a bad thing... just not a progression read.
At 1:39 I see essentially the same thing except that JF does not look the safety off nearly as long as in the 0:29 play. Again not a bad thing since there was a slot WR to help hold the Safety in this case, but again, not a progression read. But the shortened look off almost let the Safety back into the play. Was there a good pre-snap read in this later play? Maybe... but Evans was his primary so much of the time, it's hard to tell.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
I have to say though after watching all that Manziel film I'm a Mike Evans fanboy. That motherfucker can go up and catch a goddamn football. IMO, particularly from the standpoint of what the browns need in a no.2 receiver, Evans is the no.1 receiver in the draft.
Yes, Evans can jump... also runs great go routes, fades and flags/ corners... many complete with push offs. But crosses and slants? Not so much... gets the gator arms pretty fast. And as for quick hitches and bubble screens? Forget it... he's not elusive.
http://draftbreakdown.com/players/mike-evans/
@mike-h said:
I wonder what the age:hate ratio for Johnny Manziel is.
Most of the old timers here are opposed, but I'd like to see a wider sample size.
Quite possible, yet, Sonny-boy, you continue to refute the collective wisdom of our years. Kids these days... I swear... no respect for their elders.
And stop with the "hate" BS. It's called skepticism... and it's normally considered "healthy".
Really want to know? Start a poll.@mike-h said:
Love it, Mike. I still think the majority of Manziel bashers are older gentlemen.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yeah I'm not a basher as I've said a number of times I am not totally opposed to drafting him. If we do draft him I'm not heart broken. I just think his game translates to the NFL.
Well hell, if I'm a basher, I'm a basher. There are just 4 picks I would rather see us take before JF. Watkins, Bortles, Bridge, Mack.
If those 4 are gone by pick 4
then sure take him with open arms. -
i'd give my left nut for mack evans gilbert and JF.
4 players with ten picks. it could be done, correct? sprinkle in an OL for goodwill.
talk about wishful thinking. calm down, drink on.
uggh. 39 more days of this shit. hope my liver can hold out,,,,,,,,,HA!
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@mike-h said:
Maybe you should lighten up, and switch to briefs.
Maybe, but with your writing it's sometimes hard to tell the bullshit through the facts. Not a fan of "mom jokes", and there is one person walking around this planet that would tell you just how much I don't like them.
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yeah we all push the limits around here but the mom stuff crosses that imaginary line in the sand of just being a decent person.
hey but sister jokes are fine in my book. i heard your sister's vag smells like low tide on coney island.
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yeah we all push the limits around here but the mom stuff crosses that imaginary line in the sand of just being a decent person.
hey but sister jokes are fine in my book. i heard your sister's vag smells like low tide on coney island.
yeah we all push the limits around here but the mom stuff crosses that imaginary line in the sand of just being a decent person.
hey but sister jokes are fine in my book. i heard your sister's vag smells like low tide on coney island.
LMAO, yea sister jokes are ok with me (only have a brother). Something like, "Johnny Scramble at 4 will be as big of a risk as poking your sister without a rubber"........something like that.
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@mike-h said:
I wonder what the age:hate ratio for Johnny Manziel is.
Most of the old timers here are opposed, but I'd like to see a wider sample size.
I'm drinking whiskey till May, fuck this.
Not here. Johnny Football is my pick. I take him all the way to the Super Bowl.
I think Steve Young when I watch him play.
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