game of thrones
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We know crown prince rhaegar targaryan "abducted" lyanna stark, ned's sister, to the tower of joy which largely precipitated Robert's rebellion. We know Robert killed rhaegar and that ned had a final moment with his sister who was dying, in which she told him something which is currently unknown. We know Ned stark was way too honorable which is what got him killed. We know honorable Ned rode home to winterfell with a bastard stark child. We know ned and Robert had a falling out over the dishonorable killing of the targaryan children. What we don't know is if honorable Ned stark was too honorable to break his marriage vows to caitlyn stark. We do know Jon snow knows nothing of his mother and ned never told him. Would Ned have let his sister's child with rhaegar targaryan be butchered like the rest of the targaryan children? I don't think he would. Jon snow is the son of crown prince rhaegar targaryan, and thus has the best claim to the iron throne especially if he hooks up with aunt danyreus as has always been the targaryan way.
We know crown prince rhaegar targaryan "abducted" lyanna stark, ned's sister, to the tower of joy which largely precipitated Robert's rebellion. We know Robert killed rhaegar and that ned had a final moment with his sister who was dying, in which she told him something which is currently unknown. We know Ned stark was way too honorable which is what got him killed. We know honorable Ned rode home to winterfell with a bastard stark child. We know ned and Robert had a falling out over the dishonorable killing of the targaryan children. What we don't know is if honorable Ned stark was too honorable to break his marriage vows to caitlyn stark. We do know Jon snow knows nothing of his mother and ned never told him. Would Ned have let his sister's child with rhaegar targaryan be butchered like the rest of the targaryan children? I don't think he would. Jon snow is the son of crown prince rhaegar targaryan, and thus has the best claim to the iron throne especially if he hooks up with aunt danyreus as has always been the targaryan way.
SPOILER ALERTS: Info here comes from the books. If you haven't read the books you may want to not read.
Interesting. Very interesting. However, if you read the books you will know this: Rhaegar Targaryen still has a living legitimate child: the young Aegon aka Griff...who has been concealed by Ser Jon Connington, but is now back in Westeros and has taken to trying to take over the Stormlands.
So, his claim, as a bastard son, even if he is older, does not have priorty over the "Young Egg".
In addition.....Jon Snow may be dead. He was after all stabbed multiple times by his own men at the end of Book 5. (However, I surmise that even if he is "killed", he will be brought back to life by the Red Woman like Beric Dondarrian or Catelyn by the Thoros of Myr.)
Beyond that....Jon Snow has taken the Black...and given up any claims to the realms. Just like Maester Aemon did....who was in line to be King.
And....furthermore: Jon Snow does not have Dragons.
Also, we do know who Jon's mother is even if he doesn't. She was named Wyla or the like...and had big tits, per Robert Baratheon. Unless that whole story is a canard.
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You want some speculation.....here is some: MORE SPOILER ALERTS for those not having read all the books
I. At the end of the 5th book, Dany was out alone in the Dothraki Sea with just Drogon, the Dragon, when her old Khalesar comes upon them. That Khal will yield to her, and put his Khalesar at her command. The forces of Yunkai will be attacked by the Iron Born under Victarion, but the Khalesar will arrive. The forces of Yunkai will be obliterated (but the Second Sons will cross over to the forces of Mereen...with Tyrion Lannister in tow). A truce will be made between Victarion and Danaerys. With the Iron born and with the fleet of the Yunkai et al, Dany will have here way to return to Westeros.
II. The Martells will join forces with Connington and young Aegon and will end up controlling all of Westeros south of Kings Landing and east of High Garden.
III. Stannis and the forces of Roose Bolton and his Bastard will fight to somewhat of a stalemate.
IV. Meanwhile the real threat: that of the Others/White Walkers, will become more acute. But the Wildings and the Nightwatch will be at each others throats. Somehow or other I see the Wall becoming breached.
V. Davos will find Rickon who will become the New King in the North.
VI. Brandon will become the new....whatever ...God of the Weirwood?
VII. etc. etc. etc.
But....the finality of it all will be this: but first, remember the name of the work: it is a song of fire and ice. The ultimate battle in this saga will not be between men, but between Dragons and Others. The Dragons will make it to Westeros. All in the north will have to flee to The Neck....perhaps to the Vale of Arryn. And it will be there somewhere that the Dragons meet the others in a test of final annhialation.
Or, perhaps it will be nothing like that.
The real question is who...unexpectedly...will die.
FYI, we know that Joffey dies. Tyrion is put on trial for that...but he didn't do it. (It was Littlefinger and the Queen of Thorns)
We know that Tyrion loses his trial by combat. The Red Viper dies in that....but so does The Mountain...Sandor Glegane.
We know that the Hound dies....actually protecting Arya.
We know that though Tyrion did not kill Joffrey....he does kill his father Tywin with a crossbolt to the bowells (Tywin does not shit gold). He also kills Shae who was fucking Tywin.
We know that Lysa Arryn dies....killed by Littlefinger...but blamed on a singer. In this, we learn that the whole event that started this whole mess....the death of John Arryn.....was caused not by the Lannister, but by a conspiracy between Little Finger and Lysa.
We know that Maester Aemon Targaryan dies at sea.
We know that Janos Slynt dies for not obeying the Orders of the Lord Commander of the Night Watch, i.e. Jon Snow.
We know that Balon Greyjoy dies. Quentyn Martell dies trying to release a dragon.
We know that Kevin Lannister and Maester Pycelle die at the hands of the Spider.
Loras Tyrell is all but dead leading an attack on Dragonstone.
And on and on.
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There is some dispute over whether aegon is who he claims to be.
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There is some dispute over whether aegon is who he claims to be.
There is some dispute over whether aegon is who he claims to be.
OK, because everyone thought he was dead. But Tyrion Lannister believed it. John Connington....who was the knight that was his father's best friend and who is supposed to have rescued the boy and raised him....and whose identity is not questioned believes it.
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snow ends up with the dragon lady.
and they do the horizontal bop.
bet it.
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Spoilers - but really, if you're still reading this after Gip's post it's your own fault
just go read the books alreadyGip - my favourite, though no more likely than any other - theory regarding Jon Snow is that he is the son of rhaegar targaryen and lyanna stark; and so distantly related to Dany, and also meaning he can ride dragons with her and Aegon/Griff (three dragons, three targaryens). Part two, slightly more likely, he's also Azor Ahai, as evidenced by the smoke coming out when he was attacked by the men on the wall at the end of book 5. It's obviously not Stannis, and Melisandre keeps seeing JS in her visions, which is why Stannis and his army went north.
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Spoilers - but really, if you're still reading this after Gip's post it's your own fault
just go read the books alreadyGip - my favourite, though no more likely than any other - theory regarding Jon Snow is that he is the son of rhaegar targaryen and lyanna stark; and so distantly related to Dany, and also meaning he can ride dragons with her and Aegon/Griff (three dragons, three targaryens). Part two, slightly more likely, he's also Azor Ahai, as evidenced by the smoke coming out when he was attacked by the men on the wall at the end of book 5. It's obviously not Stannis, and Melisandre keeps seeing JS in her visions, which is why Stannis and his army went north.
Spoilers - but really, if you're still reading this after Gip's post it's your own fault
just go read the books alreadyGip - my favourite, though no more likely than any other - theory regarding Jon Snow is that he is the son of rhaegar targaryen and lyanna stark; and so distantly related to Dany, and also meaning he can ride dragons with her and Aegon/Griff (three dragons, three targaryens). Part two, slightly more likely, he's also Azor Ahai, as evidenced by the smoke coming out when he was attacked by the men on the wall at the end of book 5. It's obviously not Stannis, and Melisandre keeps seeing JS in her visions, which is why Stannis and his army went north.
quite agree on those speculations/theories there is a lot of back story about Ned's sister lyanna and it sounding like she died during childbirth.
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Spoilers - but really, if you're still reading this after Gip's post it's your own fault
just go read the books alreadyGip - my favourite, though no more likely than any other - theory regarding Jon Snow is that he is the son of rhaegar targaryen and lyanna stark; and so distantly related to Dany, and also meaning he can ride dragons with her and Aegon/Griff (three dragons, three targaryens). Part two, slightly more likely, he's also Azor Ahai, as evidenced by the smoke coming out when he was attacked by the men on the wall at the end of book 5. It's obviously not Stannis, and Melisandre keeps seeing JS in her visions, which is why Stannis and his army went north.
Spoilers - but really, if you're still reading this after Gip's post it's your own fault
just go read the books alreadyGip - my favourite, though no more likely than any other - theory regarding Jon Snow is that he is the son of rhaegar targaryen and lyanna stark; and so distantly related to Dany, and also meaning he can ride dragons with her and Aegon/Griff (three dragons, three targaryens). Part two, slightly more likely, he's also Azor Ahai, as evidenced by the smoke coming out when he was attacked by the men on the wall at the end of book 5. It's obviously not Stannis, and Melisandre keeps seeing JS in her visions, which is why Stannis and his army went north.
Yea, I am not buying the "son of Rhaegar" theory...mainly because Robert Baratheon said he knew who Jon Snow's mother is...and Eddard said her name was Wyla or the like.....unless all that is a complete ruse upon the reader.
But, Azor Ahai.... I am still not quite clear on who/what that is supposed to be (I cannot get the "Quizzats Haderack" out of my head for that). I know it is supposed to be some savior of the Red God R'hollor....so that is certainly a possibility.
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He is rhaegar's son all day
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Robert could not have been allowed to know who Jon snow's real parents were if Ned wanted him to live
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Robert could not have been allowed to know who Jon snow's real parents were if Ned wanted him to live
Robert could not have been allowed to know who Jon snow's real parents were if Ned wanted him to live
This is why Ned adopted him as him own? There's that line from Ned to JS, something like "you've got my blood running in your veins" - not "you're my son" or anything like that. So that's only fuelling speculation he's not Ned's son.
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Robert could not have been allowed to know who Jon snow's real parents were if Ned wanted him to live
Robert could not have been allowed to know who Jon snow's real parents were if Ned wanted him to live
Fair point.....but, Robert and the sister Lyanna were lovers, were they not? And Rhaeger kidnapped her. I do not recall the backstory being that he had her for long enough to impregnate her and have her give birth.
Edit: actually, I have gone back and read a synopsis of the backstory....and it appears perhaps that Lyanna was "captured" a lot longer than I have thought..in fact she was taken south to Dorne. And see this:
Lyanna died in a room that smelled of "blood and roses". A fever had taken her strength. Her voice had been faint as a whisper. There was fear in her eyes, while she called for "Ned" to promise her something. When her brother gave his word, the fear left her. She smiled, and her fingers clutched his own in a tight grip. They were still holding each other as she "gave up her hold on life". Rose petals slipped from her palm, dead and black. Later, Howland Reed found Eddard still holding the corpse. Howland managed to separate the hands of the living man and the dying girl, though Eddard had no recollection of what happened after Lyanna died.[7] Shortly before her death, Lyanna extracted a promise from Ned.[10] Neither the content of the promise nor the cause of her death are currently known. Her final words were a phrase that would haunt her brother for the rest of his life:
“ Promise me, Ned.[7]What the promise was is unknown. Perhaps it was to save her child by Rhaegar.
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I'm glad that King Geoffrey is dead. Hated that little prick.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Robert could not have been allowed to know who Jon snow's real parents were if Ned wanted him to live
Fair point.....but, Robert and the sister Lyanna were lovers, were they not? And Rhaeger kidnapped her. I do not recall the backstory being that he had her for long enough to impregnate her and have her give birth.
Edit: actually, I have gone back and read a synopsis of the backstory....and it appears perhaps that Lyanna was "captured" a lot longer than I have thought..in fact she was taken south to Dorne. And see this:
Lyanna died in a room that smelled of "blood and roses". A fever had taken her strength. Her voice had been faint as a whisper. There was fear in her eyes, while she called for "Ned" to promise her something. When her brother gave his word, the fear left her. She smiled, and her fingers clutched his own in a tight grip. They were still holding each other as she "gave up her hold on life". Rose petals slipped from her palm, dead and black. Later, Howland Reed found Eddard still holding the corpse. Howland managed to separate the hands of the living man and the dying girl, though Eddard had no recollection of what happened after Lyanna died.[7] Shortly before her death, Lyanna extracted a promise from Ned.[10] Neither the content of the promise nor the cause of her death are currently known. Her final words were a phrase that would haunt her brother for the rest of his life:
“ Promise me, Ned.[7]What the promise was is unknown. Perhaps it was to save her child by Rhaegar.
Fair point.....but, Robert and the sister Lyanna were lovers, were they not? And Rhaeger kidnapped her. I do not recall the backstory being that he had her for long enough to impregnate her and have her give birth.
Edit: actually, I have gone back and read a synopsis of the backstory....and it appears perhaps that Lyanna was "captured" a lot longer than I have thought..in fact she was taken south to Dorne. And see this:
Lyanna died in a room that smelled of "blood and roses". A fever had taken her strength. Her voice had been faint as a whisper. There was fear in her eyes, while she called for "Ned" to promise her something. When her brother gave his word, the fear left her. She smiled, and her fingers clutched his own in a tight grip. They were still holding each other as she "gave up her hold on life". Rose petals slipped from her palm, dead and black. Later, Howland Reed found Eddard still holding the corpse. Howland managed to separate the hands of the living man and the dying girl, though Eddard had no recollection of what happened after Lyanna died.[7] Shortly before her death, Lyanna extracted a promise from Ned.[10] Neither the content of the promise nor the cause of her death are currently known. Her final words were a phrase that would haunt her brother for the rest of his life:
“ Promise me, Ned.[7]What the promise was is unknown. Perhaps it was to save her child by Rhaegar.
Yep, it all fits. But that's the problem - it fits too nicely, which means it probably won't happen!
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I'm glad that King Geoffrey is dead. Hated that little prick.
I'm glad that King Geoffrey is dead. Hated that little prick.
DOH!
haven't watched the return of the series yet. got it on HBO on demand.
but now i'll watch it knowing something great is going to happen since i hated that little fuck too.
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I'm glad that King Geoffrey is dead. Hated that little prick.
DOH!
haven't watched the return of the series yet. got it on HBO on demand.
but now i'll watch it knowing something great is going to happen since i hated that little fuck too.
DOH!
haven't watched the return of the series yet. got it on HBO on demand.
but now i'll watch it knowing something great is going to happen since i hated that little fuck too.
EVERYBODY hated that guy. I liked that there were a couple of reminders as well of what he's done, as well as him being a complete dick in general in that episode, just to remind people how happy they should be.
Actually, maybe Kim Jong-Un liked him, who knows...
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I'm glad that King Geoffrey is dead. Hated that little prick.
DOH!
haven't watched the return of the series yet. got it on HBO on demand.
but now i'll watch it knowing something great is going to happen since i hated that little fuck too.
DOH!
haven't watched the return of the series yet. got it on HBO on demand.
but now i'll watch it knowing something great is going to happen since i hated that little fuck too.
Well, if you haven't read the books you may not want to read this thread since it discusses things in the three books that have not yet been filmed.
But, if you think that the death of Joffrey would be the biggest shocker of this season......you would be wrong.
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I'm surprised they let Joffrey die so early in the season though
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I'm surprised they let Joffrey die so early in the season though
I'm surprised they let Joffrey die so early in the season though
It's the way it goes, the story is what it is and they're following the books, generally speaking. There's so much stuff that obviously happens now that reverberates around. Tommen becomes king, meaning Cersei is back to being queen regent and Tywin stays as the hand of the king, the Tyrells have less influence than previously. Basically it's made everyone sit up and take notice, and wonder if this game of thrones is still ongoing.
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