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Interesting factoid

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  • Every QB drafted in the 1st 2 rounds who are 6' or under. Len Dawson ,Sid Luckman, YA Tittle, Billy Kilmer, Paul Christman, Mike Vick, Drew Brees. All but three are in the HOF or are future HOF. All have made multiple all pro teams.

  • Flyin JF Flyin J

    Every QB drafted in the 1st 2 rounds who are 6' or under. Len Dawson ,Sid Luckman, YA Tittle, Billy Kilmer, Paul Christman, Mike Vick, Drew Brees. All but three are in the HOF or are future HOF. All have made multiple all pro teams.

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    Every QB drafted in the 1st 2 rounds who are 6' or under. Len Dawson ,Sid Luckman, YA Tittle, Billy Kilmer, Paul Christman, Mike Vick, Drew Brees. All but three are in the HOF or are future HOF. All have made multiple all pro teams.

    I don't think that article accounted for every QB drafted in the first two rounds that were 6' or under. I think it just took the ones who had over 1000 attempts in a career. There may have been others that only ended up with a cup of coffee.

    Edit: In fact, in checking, since 1936 there have been 218 QBs drafted in the first two rounds. Of those only 114 have had 1000 attempts. in their careers. (these include ones that have been drafted recently).

    So, can we consider any QB that has failed to have 1000 attempts fairly much a bust? Let's say yes.

    .....Here are some QBs of recent vintage (1980-2005...anyone drafted since 2005 would still have a short career) drafted in rounds 1-2 that failed to get 1000 attempts:

    Gene Bradley

    Mike Elkins

    Matt Blundin

    Tony Sacco

    Jim Drukenmiller

    Rich Campbell

    Marques Tuiasosopo

    Dan McGwire

    Andre Ware

    Matt Koffer

    Art Schlichter

    Todd Marinovich

    Oliver Luck

    Kelly Stouffer

    Browning Nagle

    Akili Smith

    Cade McNown

    Heath Shuler

    Chuck Long

    Ryan Leaf

    Todd Collins

    David Klingler

    Shaun King

    Todd Blackledge

    Patrick Ramsey

    JP Losman

    Quincy Carter

    Plus add the likes of: Jamarcus Russell, Matt Leinert, Tim Tebow, John Beck, Brian Brohm...guys drafted since 2005 whose careers have already been put on the shelf.

    And don't forget the likes of Pat White, Drew Stanton, Jimmy Clausen, Brady Quinn, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson, Vince Young. Guys who are nominally still active yet whose careers are clearly not on an upswing.

    This is the Pantheon of Quarterback busts over the years whose heights were not part of the articles analysis...because they simply didn't have enough throws.

    I don't know about their heights....except to say that Dan McGwire at 6'8" is one of the biggest busts, literally and figuratively in NFL history.

  • The GipperT The Gipper

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    Every QB drafted in the 1st 2 rounds who are 6' or under. Len Dawson ,Sid Luckman, YA Tittle, Billy Kilmer, Paul Christman, Mike Vick, Drew Brees. All but three are in the HOF or are future HOF. All have made multiple all pro teams.

    I don't think that article accounted for every QB drafted in the first two rounds that were 6' or under. I think it just took the ones who had over 1000 attempts in a career. There may have been others that only ended up with a cup of coffee.

    Edit: In fact, in checking, since 1936 there have been 218 QBs drafted in the first two rounds. Of those only 114 have had 1000 attempts. in their careers. (these include ones that have been drafted recently).

    So, can we consider any QB that has failed to have 1000 attempts fairly much a bust? Let's say yes.

    .....Here are some QBs of recent vintage (1980-2005...anyone drafted since 2005 would still have a short career) drafted in rounds 1-2 that failed to get 1000 attempts:

    Gene Bradley

    Mike Elkins

    Matt Blundin

    Tony Sacco

    Jim Drukenmiller

    Rich Campbell

    Marques Tuiasosopo

    Dan McGwire

    Andre Ware

    Matt Koffer

    Art Schlichter

    Todd Marinovich

    Oliver Luck

    Kelly Stouffer

    Browning Nagle

    Akili Smith

    Cade McNown

    Heath Shuler

    Chuck Long

    Ryan Leaf

    Todd Collins

    David Klingler

    Shaun King

    Todd Blackledge

    Patrick Ramsey

    JP Losman

    Quincy Carter

    Plus add the likes of: Jamarcus Russell, Matt Leinert, Tim Tebow, John Beck, Brian Brohm...guys drafted since 2005 whose careers have already been put on the shelf.

    And don't forget the likes of Pat White, Drew Stanton, Jimmy Clausen, Brady Quinn, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson, Vince Young. Guys who are nominally still active yet whose careers are clearly not on an upswing.

    This is the Pantheon of Quarterback busts over the years whose heights were not part of the articles analysis...because they simply didn't have enough throws.

    I don't know about their heights....except to say that Dan McGwire at 6'8" is one of the biggest busts, literally and figuratively in NFL history.

    @the-gipper said:

    I don't think that article accounted for every QB drafted in the first two rounds that were 6' or under. I think it just took the ones who had over 1000 attempts in a career. There may have been others that only ended up with a cup of coffee.

    right, I did my own research after reading that article.
  • Flyin JF Flyin J

    @the-gipper said:

    I don't think that article accounted for every QB drafted in the first two rounds that were 6' or under. I think it just took the ones who had over 1000 attempts in a career. There may have been others that only ended up with a cup of coffee.

    right, I did my own research after reading that article.

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    right, I did my own research after reading that article.

    OK, note that I did some additional research as well....but I didn't check the height of each of those 218 QBs.

  • One other note: apparently being too tall is not good for a QB. The article notes that only 5 QBs have ever played in the NFL that were 6'7" or more. Sonny Gibbs drafted in 1962 and Frank Patrick in 1967, both at 6.7" went nowhere. The aforementioned 6'8" Dan McGwire was a bust.....and the other two are Brock Osweiler and Ryan Mallet, for whom the jury is obviously out.

    But let's note this: In the last two years we did go from the tallest QB to win a SB: the 6'6" Joe Flacco, to the shortest: Russel Wilson.

  • The GipperT The Gipper

    One other note: apparently being too tall is not good for a QB. The article notes that only 5 QBs have ever played in the NFL that were 6'7" or more. Sonny Gibbs drafted in 1962 and Frank Patrick in 1967, both at 6.7" went nowhere. The aforementioned 6'8" Dan McGwire was a bust.....and the other two are Brock Osweiler and Ryan Mallet, for whom the jury is obviously out.

    But let's note this: In the last two years we did go from the tallest QB to win a SB: the 6'6" Joe Flacco, to the shortest: Russel Wilson.

    @the-gipper said:

    One other note: apparently being too tall is not good for a QB. The article notes that only 5 QBs have ever played in the NFL that were 6'7" or more. Sonny Gibbs drafted in 1962 and Frank Patrick in 1967, both at 6.7" went nowhere. The aforementioned 6'8" Dan McGwire was a bust.....and the other two are Brock Osweiler and Ryan Mallet, for whom the jury is obviously out.

    But let's note this: In the last two years we did go from the tallest QB to win a SB: the 6'6" Joe Flacco, to the shortest: Russel Wilson.

    which should be proof enough that height does not matter. If they have the arm strength and accuracy to compete, which believe it or not is pretty common, it comes down to mental capacity and the ability to not only play your offense, but to play your offense AGAINST the defense.
  • Flyin JF Flyin J

    @the-gipper said:

    One other note: apparently being too tall is not good for a QB. The article notes that only 5 QBs have ever played in the NFL that were 6'7" or more. Sonny Gibbs drafted in 1962 and Frank Patrick in 1967, both at 6.7" went nowhere. The aforementioned 6'8" Dan McGwire was a bust.....and the other two are Brock Osweiler and Ryan Mallet, for whom the jury is obviously out.

    But let's note this: In the last two years we did go from the tallest QB to win a SB: the 6'6" Joe Flacco, to the shortest: Russel Wilson.

    which should be proof enough that height does not matter. If they have the arm strength and accuracy to compete, which believe it or not is pretty common, it comes down to mental capacity and the ability to not only play your offense, but to play your offense AGAINST the defense.

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    which should be proof enough that height does not matter. If they have the arm strength and accuracy to compete, which believe it or not is pretty common, it comes down to mental capacity and the ability to not only play your offense, but to play your offense AGAINST the defense.

    Or, perhaps some would use the Goldilocks argument: You can't be too short and you can't be too tall. You need to be just right. (or at least in the right range....for which 6'6" could be set at the top, ...but Wilson seems to show that 5' 11 is still in the Goldilocks range.

    Can Manziel confirm?

    Flyin JF 1 Reply

  • I'd go with 6'3" not too short, not too tall.

    The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain-
  • The GipperT The Gipper

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    which should be proof enough that height does not matter. If they have the arm strength and accuracy to compete, which believe it or not is pretty common, it comes down to mental capacity and the ability to not only play your offense, but to play your offense AGAINST the defense.

    Or, perhaps some would use the Goldilocks argument: You can't be too short and you can't be too tall. You need to be just right. (or at least in the right range....for which 6'6" could be set at the top, ...but Wilson seems to show that 5' 11 is still in the Goldilocks range.

    Can Manziel confirm?

    @the-gipper said:

    Or, perhaps some would use the Goldilocks argument: You can't be too short and you can't be too tall. You need to be just right. (or at least in the right range....for which 6'6" could be set at the top, ...but Wilson seems to show that 5' 11 is still in the Goldilocks range.

    Can Manziel confirm?

    Nope, these are stereotypes that will and are being broken....can you make the throws and decipher the game? Thats it.
    The GipperT hoortaH 2 Replies
  • Flyin JF Flyin J

    @the-gipper said:

    Or, perhaps some would use the Goldilocks argument: You can't be too short and you can't be too tall. You need to be just right. (or at least in the right range....for which 6'6" could be set at the top, ...but Wilson seems to show that 5' 11 is still in the Goldilocks range.

    Can Manziel confirm?

    Nope, these are stereotypes that will and are being broken....can you make the throws and decipher the game? Thats it.

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    Nope, these are stereotypes that will and are being broken....can you make the throws and decipher the game? Thats it.

    I don't know. There still may actually be something to it.

    OK, so perhaps 5'11 isn't too short. What about 5'9 like Eddie LeBaron.

    And, for now, is in fact 6'6" the max a QB should be? This day and age a QB should be a bit nimble. Prior experiments at 6'7 6'8 have failed.

    Perhaps we will find out more when Mallet and Osweiler get a real chance to perform. That time is not now because they sit behind Brady and Peyton respectively. Before long though we may find out.

    Flyin JF 1 Reply
  • Flyin JF Flyin J

    @the-gipper said:

    Or, perhaps some would use the Goldilocks argument: You can't be too short and you can't be too tall. You need to be just right. (or at least in the right range....for which 6'6" could be set at the top, ...but Wilson seems to show that 5' 11 is still in the Goldilocks range.

    Can Manziel confirm?

    Nope, these are stereotypes that will and are being broken....can you make the throws and decipher the game? Thats it.

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    Nope, these are stereotypes that will and are being broken....can you make the throws and decipher the game? Thats it.

    And that's the question I (and many others) have about Manziel. I don't doubt he can make the throws, but can he actually read a defense?

  • There's no secret.

    It's far easier to read a defense after the ball's been snapped when you are 6'4" than 5'11".

    Flyin JF 1 Reply
  • The GipperT The Gipper

    XxDaBuckeyexX said:

    Nope, these are stereotypes that will and are being broken....can you make the throws and decipher the game? Thats it.

    I don't know. There still may actually be something to it.

    OK, so perhaps 5'11 isn't too short. What about 5'9 like Eddie LeBaron.

    And, for now, is in fact 6'6" the max a QB should be? This day and age a QB should be a bit nimble. Prior experiments at 6'7 6'8 have failed.

    Perhaps we will find out more when Mallet and Osweiler get a real chance to perform. That time is not now because they sit behind Brady and Peyton respectively. Before long though we may find out.

    @the-gipper said:

    I don't know. There still may actually be something to it.

    OK, so perhaps 5'11 isn't too short. What about 5'9 like Eddie LeBaron.

    And, for now, is in fact 6'6" the max a QB should be? This day and age a QB should be a bit nimble. Prior experiments at 6'7 6'8 have failed.

    Perhaps we will find out more when Mallet and Osweiler get a real chance to perform. That time is not now because they sit behind Brady and Peyton respectively. Before long though we may find out.

    If a 5'9 guy comes along with big enough hands and a good arm maybe he could play
  • MasterDogM MasterDog

    There's no secret.

    It's far easier to read a defense after the ball's been snapped when you are 6'4" than 5'11".

    @masterdog said:

    There's no secret.

    It's far easier to read a defense after the ball's been snapped when you are 6'4" than 5'11".

    Drew Brees doesnt have a problem. nobody is seeing over the line, they see through and around them. It may help a little, but not much. Mostly the OL at the big programs have NFL sized guys, and Manziel did alright. Can he figure it out in the NFL? Who knows...
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