Skip Bayless piece
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@everlastingxxx said:
I dont have a problem telling him in private but coming out and saying it openly was a little too much. I think they obviously are divided on him. Why he was passed up twice, tried to trade for Cousins, wrote Bridgewater on the card (that one might be untrue), QB coaching having to text owner to draft him, homeless man giving advice to owner, lol! I mean really, this needs to be made into a movie. All that matters is Manziel is on board and i think he is.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Every team in the league will entertain any trade offer that will make their team better and I must have missed where we "tried to trade for Cousins." Sure there was talk about both here and on various media sites, but I never heard any offers thrown out. Now on to the QB coach "having" to text the owner to draft Manziel, he may have sent a text message to them, but that doesn't mean that the text message was the reason they drafted Johnny Manziel. If you think that, then the Browns are in a lot of trouble, because they value the opinion of a QB coach more than anyone else in the organization. Now on to the most ridiculous thing that you said and the media has been reporting, about the homeless man giving advice to Haslam. So what that someone that is homeless told him to draft Manziel and we drafted him, I can bet you that someone somewhere else told him to draft Sammy Watkins, and someone somewhere else told him to draft Blake Bortles. This is so stupid. This media stuff that is making people say things exactly like this is beyond ridiculous.
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Some of you newbs make me laugh. Manziel is a rookie, ROOKIE. He hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet. You all act like he has A god given right to be starter. And how dare the owner say he has to earn the position. This isn't college. This is PROFESSIONAL. Big, big difference.
Some of you newbs make me laugh. Manziel is a rookie, ROOKIE. He hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet. You all act like he has A god given right to be starter. And how dare the owner say he has to earn the position. This isn't college. This is PROFESSIONAL. Big, big difference.
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
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Some of you newbs make me laugh. Manziel is a rookie, ROOKIE. He hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet. You all act like he has A god given right to be starter. And how dare the owner say he has to earn the position. This isn't college. This is PROFESSIONAL. Big, big difference.
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
There are many bronze bust's in Canton that were undrafted free agents. Brian Hoyer may be on the verge of becoming a very talented QB, our offense was in quicksand when he was not in there and appeared to move fluidly with him. How many remember fans in Mich couldn't wait to get rid of Brady most people probably think he was good before he got to the NFL.
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Imagine the amount of pressure this kid will be under? More then any quarterback in recent history I'd say.
The good news is that it isn't new to him. He was already "Johnny Football" (or JFF) back in high school when he was something of a local/state legend.
He has been on Sportscenter seemingly every night since he took his first snap at A&M, both during the season and the off season... you could make an argument that he has drawn more media scrutiny than any college player in recent years, perhaps ever. He hasn't always handled it well, but the spotlight is more than a little familiar to him.
The good news is that it isn't new to him. He was already "Johnny Football" (or JFF) back in high school when he was something of a local/state legend.
He has been on Sportscenter seemingly every night since he took his first snap at A&M, both during the season and the off season... you could make an argument that he has drawn more media scrutiny than any college player in recent years, perhaps ever. He hasn't always handled it well, but the spotlight is more than a little familiar to him.
Yup, but this is THE REALLY BIG spotlight. Sure us Browns fans are well aware of JF's college abilities, I hate to be crude, come training camp, ESPN is going to be all over him like stink on shit. With Truck Stop Haslam's flair, I wouldn't be the least surprised if the Browns get the Hard Knocks gig. I'd hope Pettine overrules him on that one.
miktoxic-"hmmmmmm. wasn't the kid falling into the 2nd round?"
Not really. The Browns realized several teams were trying to maneuver into that #22 spot to take him. They just made a better offer. They didn't go up there just because Johnny asked them to. It makes for a good story, but no one makes that choice because a player asks. They make it to help their team win and to not let him slip away to someone else. Minn. made the same decision to beat Houston to Bridgewater before he went to them at the top of the second round.
That we can agree on- if not the Browns, some team would certainly have taken Manziel somewhere in the first.
Well I guess they have to make a big commotion about something. To be honest I'm glad it's the Browns finally. I'm about sick of the Andrew Luck and rg3 hype. Time for some Cleveland Browns hype.
WSS
Ah, Mr. Steve you and Russ agree- and I don't. It was one of the primary reasons I didn't want Manziel. The ESPN circus tents are already going up in Berea.
I read it. Used to be called YELLOW JOURNALISM. All the more reason to BAN ESPN.
See above. Now that RGIII is coming off an off year, they need a new media darling to give 24\7 coverage to.
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
LOL, ever hear of a grocery bagger named Kurt Warner? Incidentally, the Browns could have had him in the expansion draft of 1999. But I have to give you the Cleveland perspective on Hoyer. The guy is 100% Cleveland- west side St. Ignatius, went to the same school as LeCharles Bentley (who unfortunately blew his knee out and never actually got to play for the Browns)- another in a long line of our tragedies. I can tell you this- every kid who's ever strapped on a football helmet in Cleveland has dreams of playing for the Browns one day. Brian is living the dream- and he's not going to just roll over and play dead for JF. Farmer texted him before they drafted JF- and Hoyer's response was "Bring it on." So there's a substantial local kid makes good undercurrent going on here. Us Clevelanders love a good underdog story, and Hoyer sat on the sidelines for years learning from one in the best in the biz- Brady. And finally Hoyer did not look too shabby in the limited action he saw before he took a crummy slide attempt against the Bills. I'm sure the training staff has taught him how do do a dive to not get hurt.
PS- you know who else the Steelers cut? Johnny Unitas- just sayin'.
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Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
There are many bronze bust's in Canton that were undrafted free agents. Brian Hoyer may be on the verge of becoming a very talented QB, our offense was in quicksand when he was not in there and appeared to move fluidly with him. How many remember fans in Mich couldn't wait to get rid of Brady most people probably think he was good before he got to the NFL.
There are many bronze bust's in Canton that were undrafted free agents. Brian Hoyer may be on the verge of becoming a very talented QB, our offense was in quicksand when he was not in there and appeared to move fluidly with him. How many remember fans in Mich couldn't wait to get rid of Brady most people probably think he was good before he got to the NFL.
There have certainly been undrafted free agents that have turned into excellent pros, no question at all about that. I am just saying that Hoyer is hardly an established starter.
He has started four games in his 5 year career.
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The good news is that it isn't new to him. He was already "Johnny Football" (or JFF) back in high school when he was something of a local/state legend.
He has been on Sportscenter seemingly every night since he took his first snap at A&M, both during the season and the off season... you could make an argument that he has drawn more media scrutiny than any college player in recent years, perhaps ever. He hasn't always handled it well, but the spotlight is more than a little familiar to him.
Yup, but this is THE REALLY BIG spotlight. Sure us Browns fans are well aware of JF's college abilities, I hate to be crude, come training camp, ESPN is going to be all over him like stink on shit. With Truck Stop Haslam's flair, I wouldn't be the least surprised if the Browns get the Hard Knocks gig. I'd hope Pettine overrules him on that one.
miktoxic-"hmmmmmm. wasn't the kid falling into the 2nd round?"
Not really. The Browns realized several teams were trying to maneuver into that #22 spot to take him. They just made a better offer. They didn't go up there just because Johnny asked them to. It makes for a good story, but no one makes that choice because a player asks. They make it to help their team win and to not let him slip away to someone else. Minn. made the same decision to beat Houston to Bridgewater before he went to them at the top of the second round.
That we can agree on- if not the Browns, some team would certainly have taken Manziel somewhere in the first.
Well I guess they have to make a big commotion about something. To be honest I'm glad it's the Browns finally. I'm about sick of the Andrew Luck and rg3 hype. Time for some Cleveland Browns hype.
WSS
Ah, Mr. Steve you and Russ agree- and I don't. It was one of the primary reasons I didn't want Manziel. The ESPN circus tents are already going up in Berea.
I read it. Used to be called YELLOW JOURNALISM. All the more reason to BAN ESPN.
See above. Now that RGIII is coming off an off year, they need a new media darling to give 24\7 coverage to.
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
LOL, ever hear of a grocery bagger named Kurt Warner? Incidentally, the Browns could have had him in the expansion draft of 1999. But I have to give you the Cleveland perspective on Hoyer. The guy is 100% Cleveland- west side St. Ignatius, went to the same school as LeCharles Bentley (who unfortunately blew his knee out and never actually got to play for the Browns)- another in a long line of our tragedies. I can tell you this- every kid who's ever strapped on a football helmet in Cleveland has dreams of playing for the Browns one day. Brian is living the dream- and he's not going to just roll over and play dead for JF. Farmer texted him before they drafted JF- and Hoyer's response was "Bring it on." So there's a substantial local kid makes good undercurrent going on here. Us Clevelanders love a good underdog story, and Hoyer sat on the sidelines for years learning from one in the best in the biz- Brady. And finally Hoyer did not look too shabby in the limited action he saw before he took a crummy slide attempt against the Bills. I'm sure the training staff has taught him how do do a dive to not get hurt.
PS- you know who else the Steelers cut? Johnny Unitas- just sayin'.
LOL, ever hear of a grocery bagger named Kurt Warner? Incidentally, the Browns could have had him in the expansion draft of 1999. But I have to give you the Cleveland perspective on Hoyer. The guy is 100% Cleveland- west side St. Ignatius, went to the same school as LeCharles Bentley (who unfortunately blew his knee out and never actually got to play for the Browns)- another in a long line of our tragedies. I can tell you this- every kid who's ever strapped on a football helmet in Cleveland has dreams of playing for the Browns one day. Brian is living the dream- and he's not going to just roll over and play dead for JF. Farmer texted him before they drafted JF- and Hoyer's response was "Bring it on." So there's a substantial local kid makes good undercurrent going on here. Us Clevelanders love a good underdog story, and Hoyer sat on the sidelines for years learning from one in the best in the biz- Brady. And finally Hoyer did not look to shabby in the limited action he saw before he took a crummy slide attempt against the Bills. I'm sure the training staff has taught him how do do a dive to not get hurt.
PS- you know who else the Steelers cut? Johnny Unitas.
Sure, there are examples of guys coming out of nowhere and proving to be excellent, but they are exceptions to the rule for a reason. I also fully understand the local boy angle with Hoyer. Who wouldn't like that? Lets face it though this is the NFL, and if you are going to bet on someone, bet on the first round draft pick to win the job.
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LOL, ever hear of a grocery bagger named Kurt Warner? Incidentally, the Browns could have had him in the expansion draft of 1999. But I have to give you the Cleveland perspective on Hoyer. The guy is 100% Cleveland- west side St. Ignatius, went to the same school as LeCharles Bentley (who unfortunately blew his knee out and never actually got to play for the Browns)- another in a long line of our tragedies. I can tell you this- every kid who's ever strapped on a football helmet in Cleveland has dreams of playing for the Browns one day. Brian is living the dream- and he's not going to just roll over and play dead for JF. Farmer texted him before they drafted JF- and Hoyer's response was "Bring it on." So there's a substantial local kid makes good undercurrent going on here. Us Clevelanders love a good underdog story, and Hoyer sat on the sidelines for years learning from one in the best in the biz- Brady. And finally Hoyer did not look to shabby in the limited action he saw before he took a crummy slide attempt against the Bills. I'm sure the training staff has taught him how do do a dive to not get hurt.
PS- you know who else the Steelers cut? Johnny Unitas.
Sure, there are examples of guys coming out of nowhere and proving to be excellent, but they are exceptions to the rule for a reason. I also fully understand the local boy angle with Hoyer. Who wouldn't like that? Lets face it though this is the NFL, and if you are going to bet on someone, bet on the first round draft pick to win the job.
Sure, there are examples of guys coming out of nowhere and proving to be excellent, but they are exceptions to the rule for a reason. I also fully understand the local boy angle with Hoyer. Who wouldn't like that? Lets face it though this is the NFL, and if you are going to bet on someone, bet on the first round draft pick to win the job.
I hate to say it to the Manziel thumpers, but the best possible scenario would be for Hoyer to light it up like Warner, and have JF sit behind him for a couple of years like Rodgers did behind Farve. Problem is, first int Hoyer throws, the JF legion is going to be screaming for him.
At any rate, the Browns open with the Steelers, Saints and Ravens. I don't expect to see JF before game #4 after the bye at the earliest.
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I thought you were going to say BAYLESS was a POS. Makes more sense.
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Here's my take on JF. 1) It doesn't surprise me that of the 4 key management players (owner, GM, Coach. OC) that they were not all in love with this player. Everybody knows it was a high-risk move and a media/fan circus and that his special skills might not translate to the NFL. 2) I agree with hoorta above and I hope Hoyer is the same player he was in 3 games last season, allowing JF the time he needs to mature and learn. 3) JF needs to make adjustments to the NFL's pocket requirements, game speed and player talent or, given his style of play, he'll end up with more concussions and broken bones than he imagined. If he does not adjust, he'll not only be on the IR/POP, he'll be a bust. 4) If the Browns knew about his off-the-field drinking issues, they should have passed and picked another player. I really don't like the way he was portrayed in the article which started this thread. We all know many people who destroyed their careers with alcohol. 5) I don't really get what the excitement is all about. Lebron was a high-school phenom that went straight to the Pro's. JF is a small QB/Heisman Trophy winner that was picked in the 20's and not even the first QB selected. He scrambles well and is exciting to watch, but so what. What am I missing? Is he just this year's flavor like Tebow, RG3? I'm saving my excitement for the first time he takes the team down the field for a come-from-behind, 4th quarter touchdown.
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Here's my take on JF. 1) It doesn't surprise me that of the 4 key management players (owner, GM, Coach. OC) that they were not all in love with this player. Everybody knows it was a high-risk move and a media/fan circus and that his special skills might not translate to the NFL. 2) I agree with hoorta above and I hope Hoyer is the same player he was in 3 games last season, allowing JF the time he needs to mature and learn. 3) JF needs to make adjustments to the NFL's pocket requirements, game speed and player talent or, given his style of play, he'll end up with more concussions and broken bones than he imagined. If he does not adjust, he'll not only be on the IR/POP, he'll be a bust. 4) If the Browns knew about his off-the-field drinking issues, they should have passed and picked another player. I really don't like the way he was portrayed in the article which started this thread. We all know many people who destroyed their careers with alcohol. 5) I don't really get what the excitement is all about. Lebron was a high-school phenom that went straight to the Pro's. JF is a small QB/Heisman Trophy winner that was picked in the 20's and not even the first QB selected. He scrambles well and is exciting to watch, but so what. What am I missing? Is he just this year's flavor like Tebow, RG3? I'm saving my excitement for the first time he takes the team down the field for a come-from-behind, 4th quarter touchdown.
Here's my take on JF. 1) It doesn't surprise me that of the 4 key management players (owner, GM, Coach. OC) that they were not all in love with this player. Everybody knows it was a high-risk move and a media/fan circus and that his special skills might not translate to the NFL. 2) I agree with hoorta above and I hope Hoyer is the same player he was in 3 games last season, allowing JF the time he needs to mature and learn. 3) JF needs to make adjustments to the NFL's pocket requirements, game speed and player talent or, given his style of play, he'll end up with more concussions and broken bones than he imagined. If he does not adjust, he'll not only be on the IR/POP, he'll be a bust. 4) If the Browns knew about his off-the-field drinking issues, they should have passed and picked another player. I really don't like the way he was portrayed in the article which started this thread. We all know many people who destroyed their careers with alcohol. 5) I don't really get what the excitement is all about. Lebron was a high-school phenom that went straight to the Pro's. JF is a small QB/Heisman Trophy winner that was picked in the 20's and not even the first QB selected. He scrambles well and is exciting to watch, but so what. What am I missing? Is he just this year's flavor like Tebow, RG3? I'm saving my excitement for the first time he takes the team down the field for a come-from-behind, 4th quarter touchdown.
I'm glad you brought up the LeBron comparison- and that's what the JF fans need to realize. LeBum was a once in a generation talent- hell, he had Pro scouts drooling over him while he was in grade school, and practiced with the Cavs in HS. He had it all- the rare combination of size, speed and skill. With all the due respect to the JF fans- he doesn't have superhuman size, or speed- if he was 6'4", 230, and ran a 4.4 we wouldn't be having this discussion- you'd be having it with the Texans fans.
And I'm not belittling JFs HS or college feats- it's can you stay healthy enough long enough to use your talents?
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There are many bronze bust's in Canton that were undrafted free agents. Brian Hoyer may be on the verge of becoming a very talented QB, our offense was in quicksand when he was not in there and appeared to move fluidly with him. How many remember fans in Mich couldn't wait to get rid of Brady most people probably think he was good before he got to the NFL.
There have certainly been undrafted free agents that have turned into excellent pros, no question at all about that. I am just saying that Hoyer is hardly an established starter.
He has started four games in his 5 year career.
There have certainly been undrafted free agents that have turned into excellent pros, no question at all about that. I am just saying that Hoyer is hardly an established starter.
He has started four games in his 5 year career.
that's four more starts than manziel. and?
I thought you were going to say BAYLESS was a POS. Makes more sense.
bayless is a POS. there I said it.
dumb all over. a little ugly on the side.
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@everlastingxxx said:
So who do you think starts against the Steelers? Since you are so high on this Hoyer guy, make a prediction.
That Hoyer guy.
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@everlastingxxx said:
So who do you think starts against the Steelers? Since you are so high on this Hoyer guy, make a prediction.
i think it depends on who wins the job right? listen as much as some of us like to bust balls our ultimate goal as browns fans is for our team to win. if it's a toss up between hoyer and manziel i'm thinking the coaching staff defers to hoyer just cuz he has been there and they're not just throwing manziel into a high pressure situation he's never been in before. (yeah i know he's done it in HS and college blah blah blah) that just makes sense doesn't it?
now if manziel goes into training camp and blows the doors off and is head and shoulders above hoyer then i think you have to say F it and roll the dice. deal with the consequences then. if he starts and plays balls to the wall then we'll have a new king in cleveland. if he chokes, pull him and let him learn slowly. hopefully he won't be shell shocked. and before you jump down my throat i'm not saying he would joke or will choke i'm just trying to lay out different scenarios that could happen. i'm not dissing JF. hell we spent another #22 pick on a QB. any true browns' fan is hoping like hell that this FO has made the right choice in EACH and EVERY draft pick.
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miktoxic-"hmmmmmm. wasn't the kid falling into the 2nd round?"
Not really. The Browns realized several teams were trying to maneuver into that #22 spot to take him. They just made a better offer. They didn't go up there just because Johnny asked them to. It makes for a good story, but no one makes that choice because a player asks. They make it to help their team win and to not let him slip away to someone else. Minn. made the same decision to beat Houston to Bridgewater before he went to them at the top of the second round.
The Browns realized several teams were trying to maneuver into that #22 spot to take him.
Haven't visited other thread where you originally inferred what you are now openly claiming. Maybe there you ID'd more teams than than the Vikes and us "trying to maneuver" for JM.
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
None of which matters since as of now our HC has labeled Hoyer "the starter".
... I wouldn't be the least surprised if the Browns get the Hard Knocks gig. I'd hope Pettine overrules him on that one.
Can't see that being Pettine's call, but to allow Hard Knocks would be wildly inconsistent with the stance the organization has taken in barring the National media from the current rookie mini.
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I read it. Used to be called YELLOW JOURNALISM. All the more reason to BAN ESPN.
ESPN has become the "individualism" network, and it gets annoying.
Tiger, Kobe, Farve, Tebow, Peyton, Vick, Brady,A-Rod, LeBron, etc....it never ends. The only teams they seem to care about are the Yankees & Red Sox. Maybe Alabama football too.
I don't know who our QB will be after training camp, but our recent history vs Pittsburgh ('99-'13), and Dick LaBeau defensive schemes may not bode well for any rookie. Maybe JF is cocky enough to overcome that, but I doubt it.
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@everlastingxxx said:
So who do you think starts against the Steelers? Since you are so high on this Hoyer guy, make a prediction.
We have... there's a poll. As of my writing this it's just shy of 2:1 Hoyer.
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It takes time to develop a pro qb as a rookie. There's
tons of stuff to learn, then a lot of time
learning OJT about timing, etc.
I figure Hoyer definately starts.
Manziel's time will come and he'll be ready.
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FYI this is the JFF your getting not the guy in Skip's hit piece.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/video_johnny_manziels_press_co.html
As for the starter-backup stuff it's way overblown. Johnny had to sit his freshman year and fight for the job with a good QB to win it his second. He knows the deal.
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The Browns realized several teams were trying to maneuver into that #22 spot to take him.
Haven't visited other thread where you originally inferred what you are now openly claiming. Maybe there you ID'd more teams than than the Vikes and us "trying to maneuver" for JM.
Of course he needs to earn the job, but lets be real here for a moment, he isn't competing with Peyton Manning... he is competing with a guy who is a former undrafted free agent, who has been cut by New England, Pittsburgh, and Arizona, has only started four games in his career... and that was before he blew his knee out.
None of which matters since as of now our HC has labeled Hoyer "the starter".
... I wouldn't be the least surprised if the Browns get the Hard Knocks gig. I'd hope Pettine overrules him on that one.
Can't see that being Pettine's call, but to allow Hard Knocks would be wildly inconsistent with the stance the organization has taken in barring the National media from the current rookie mini.
Haven't visited other thread where you originally inferred what you are now openly claiming. Maybe there you ID'd more teams than than the Vikes and us "trying to maneuver" for JM.
Can't find the original article but this one will do well enough: see #4 in this article. The one I found earlier implied possibly one more besides Cleveland & Minn. This article names K.C. as the unnamed team.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/05/terrys_talkin_johnny_manziel_c.html
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