New Browns Fans Introduce Yourselves
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What do you think constitutes a team in this scenario?
Are Jimmy Haslam and Ray Farmer strapping on pads and playing? No. They are part of the "team" in the broadest sense of the definition, but are they practicing during organized TEAM activities? Do they have lockers in the team locker room? No. They're not part of the team. They're management and ownership.
The team colors aren't the team. The owners aren't the team. The team history isn't the team. That's part of the franchise.
The team is the team. The players on the field. The actual team is the team. You know that, you're just arguing to be a difficult douchebag.
No, I am arguing that all those things that you say aren't the team, in fact may be the most durable aspect of a team.
All of the players currently under contract were asked to go. Whether some of them refused is immaterial. They were still contractually obligated to go.
So, yes...the team went.
Stop trying to validate it.
Players, to an NFL team are nothing but fungible assets. They are nothing but cornseed. By your defintion then the Browns team of last year has now moved on almost as much as that team back in 1995. The Browns moved to Dallas because Weeden is now in Dallas, or they are in Denver because TJ Ward is in Denver, they moved to wherever DQJackson went...or to wherever Jason Campbell is now, where Sean Lauvao is now (Washington), they are in Indianapolis because that is where Trent Richardson is, Oakland because that is where Greg Little is.
Honestly, players are about as critical to what a "team" is as the dirty laundry bags full of uniforms that the equipment managers haul around. Perhaps that is where the team is: in the laundry hamper. Players are as fungible as those dirty unis.
The team moved. The franchise stayed. That's literally all there is to it.
Get over it already, it happened over a decade ago. Jesus fucking christ.
Well, if you want to fuck Jesus Christ, perhaps you need to be named Mary Magdelene.. All I am doing is setting the historical fact straight for some of the newbie JFF fans we have here. I mean, you wouldn't want them to believe that Texas won the Civil War, would you?
The fact is that the team moved and the franchise stayed.
That is the fact.
Debating semantics just makes it seem like you're trying your best to cover up the fact that it happened or trying to justify it in your own mind.
The team, in this scenario, consists of the group of players that take the field. In a team-based sport, this is what is commonly thought of as "the team".
They moved. Whether Steve Everitt refused to play or some minority owners refused to go to Baltimore or not doesn't matter. The team of players were contractually obligated to do so, unless they demanded release or had their contracts expire.
The franchise, in this scenario representing everything that isn't personnel, stayed in Cleveland. The colors, the history, the name- all of which stayed in Cleveland.
So, once again, the team left and the franchise stayed.
The fact is that the team moved and the franchise stayed.
That is the fact.
Debating semantics just makes it seem like you're trying your best to cover up the fact that it happened or trying to justify it in your own mind.
The team, in this scenario, consists of the group of players that take the field. In a team-based sport, this is what is commonly thought of as "the team".
They moved. Whether Steve Everitt refused to play or some minority owners refused to go to Baltimore or not doesn't matter. The team of players were contractually obligated to do so, unless they demanded release or had their contracts expire.
The franchise, in this scenario representing everything that isn't personnel, stayed in Cleveland. The colors, the history, the name- all of which stayed in Cleveland.
So, once again, the team left and the franchise stayed.
Once again to be absolutely accurate, remnants, some portion, of the team moved. I have won and lost cases or made settlements on matters more semantical that this. As a jurist I have decided cases on matters more semantical than this.
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The fact is that the team moved and the franchise stayed.
That is the fact.
Debating semantics just makes it seem like you're trying your best to cover up the fact that it happened or trying to justify it in your own mind.
The team, in this scenario, consists of the group of players that take the field. In a team-based sport, this is what is commonly thought of as "the team".
They moved. Whether Steve Everitt refused to play or some minority owners refused to go to Baltimore or not doesn't matter. The team of players were contractually obligated to do so, unless they demanded release or had their contracts expire.
The franchise, in this scenario representing everything that isn't personnel, stayed in Cleveland. The colors, the history, the name- all of which stayed in Cleveland.
So, once again, the team left and the franchise stayed.
Of course the team left and the franchise stayed. No doubt about it. We had to build a new 'team' from scratch.
Of course the team left and the franchise stayed. No doubt about it. We had to build a new 'team' from scratch.
Perhaps, but that is a different issue on whether the entire "team" moved to Baltimore. TCPO believes the team consists only of the players.....and like I said, then the team we are going to put on the field this fall must not be the Cleveland Browns. Lots and lots and lots of the players on last years roster....last year's "team" are no longer here, so this next year the team must not be the Cleveland Browns....so what are they, The Cleveland Ecrus?
And yea, tell us about how much the players are "the team". Tell that to player Elhadji Ndiaye, signed Thursday, cut yesterday.
Anthony Dima, signed last Tuesday, Cut yesterday. About 3 or 4 other "team members" had that distinction of being "the team known as the Cleveland Browns"....for about a week.
Cornseed.
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Thanks for the refresher. I lived in Houston at the time and was a BIG Luv Ya Blue fan, as were almost all Houstonians. I also remember that Bud Adams was a big asshole and alienated a large percentage of the fans with his constant asking for more, more, more. If Houstonians appeared apathetic about the move, that would be the reason. When Adams died last fall, the Houston Chronicle called him (he still lived in Houston) the most hated man in Houston.
Well, I see to recall that one of Adam's given reasons for moving to Tennessee was that "I love Country Music". I mean, can you not get sufficient country music in Houston? Absurd.
Is the horse dead yet?
I mean, can you not get sufficient country music in Houston? Absurd.
Not since Gilley's burned down.. (arson was never proved)
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Of course the team left and the franchise stayed. No doubt about it. We had to build a new 'team' from scratch.
Perhaps, but that is a different issue on whether the entire "team" moved to Baltimore. TCPO believes the team consists only of the players.....and like I said, then the team we are going to put on the field this fall must not be the Cleveland Browns. Lots and lots and lots of the players on last years roster....last year's "team" are no longer here, so this next year the team must not be the Cleveland Browns....so what are they, The Cleveland Ecrus?
And yea, tell us about how much the players are "the team". Tell that to player Elhadji Ndiaye, signed Thursday, cut yesterday.
Anthony Dima, signed last Tuesday, Cut yesterday. About 3 or 4 other "team members" had that distinction of being "the team known as the Cleveland Browns"....for about a week.
Cornseed.
Perhaps, but that is a different issue on whether the entire "team" moved to Baltimore. TCPO believes the team consists only of the players.....and like I said, then the team we are going to put on the field this fall must not be the Cleveland Browns. Lots and lots and lots of the players on last years roster....last year's "team" are no longer here, so this next year the team must not be the Cleveland Browns....so what are they, The Cleveland Ecrus?
And yea, tell us about how much the players are "the team". Tell that to player Elhadji Ndiaye, signed Thursday, cut yesterday.
Anthony Dima, signed last Tuesday, Cut yesterday. About 3 or 4 other "team members" had that distinction of being "the team known as the Cleveland Browns"....for about a week.
Cornseed.
No, they will be the Browns. They will be the 2014 Cleveland Browns, composed of some of the 2013 Cleveland Browns. Just as the 1996 Ravens were composed of some of the 1995 Cleveland Browns.
Being a judge makes you no less wrong, it just means you're good at nitpicking. You're debating something for no reason other than to debate it, like you always do.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
@everlastingxxx said:
Well why i was asking about the word organized. Browns have the most clubs. My original point was about dealing with popularity which clearly the Cowboys are #1. A number of polls prove that point while Browns are down in the 20s. Regardless, at the end of the day i would trade a Super Bowl trophy over popularity.
Polls:
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/10/16/Research-and-Ratings/Harris-Poll.aspx
Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche is more popular than the Beatles so you know put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
@mike-h said:
Welcome to thunder dome bitch
http://thunderblogsports.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/cleveland-to-baltimore.jpg
Haha!
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The Cowboys had an era once too. These days I'd bet money the 49ers are actually more popular, because popularity is usually a gay bandwagon attribute.
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There's something that most probably don't understand if your not from the south. The NFL isn't really popular in the south. College football is the thing. Until 95, there was the falcons aand the redskins and I guess miami.So now, its growing in the south because we have some more teams. College stars end up leaving SEC teams and college fans follow them. Its a positive thing I think! This year I have 3 games I can get to!
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I am hardly a new fan. Been cheering for the Browns since I was nine.
But I'm in Southern Alberta (Canada, just in case) and I've never had even a decent conversation with another Browns fan. I've never been friends with one. I've met a few on occasion, but only in brief passing. Became a fan of this team without knowledge of its history and without ever seeing it successful. As though it was in my DNA.
But it has become a shared experience only since joining this board. And while it's... It sucks feeling hopeful every year, only to be let down constantly. It's kind of nice (I suppose in a way that makes me a terrible person) to know that the pain is shared. To read the cynicism (and once again optimism) of fellow fans.
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every single weapon outside of Cameron will be different this year. Definitely for the better, besides Gordon of course. Lets just hope we have some luck health wise.@everlastingxxx said:
I am on week 9 of the Browns 2013 season. Its pretty scary. Jason Campbell is starting now. Browns offense just lacks a spark with Weeden, just seems lifeless. Browns have no running backs and no wide receivers (besides Gordon of course) its scary. The o-line is a little leaky too. Defense is really the only hope yall had last season and the Benjamin kid although he just got hurt. Ward is pretty good too. I am very concerned about Manziel having weapons to use this season. Its worse than i thought. After so many hours of bad offense i had to watch the Cowboys/Broncos game to pump some life back into me.
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i just dont know why its so bad to have a favorite player. Im a Jets fan, a Browns fan and a Panthers fan cause thats where I was born, my family comes from, and where I live now. Back when Bo Jackson played I was also a Raiders fan because Bo was my favorite player and thats where he got drafted. I pull for Notre Dame in football we have had some good players recentely but no transcendent ones. Had Johnny Football played for Notre Dame I would have been a fan of his team almost anywhere he would have went (obvious exceptions like New England / Miami), but had he played for ND and got drafted by San Diego I'm sure I would have instantly became a San Diego fan.
Johnny Football is one of the most hyped guys ever, partly because hes a QB, but he's far from the only transcendent player to move on from college to the pros. I'm sure there are alot of Oklahoma fans that now pull for the Vikings because of Peterson, I'm sure there are alot of Stanford fans that pull for Indy, Georgia Tech with Detriot. Yea some are short term fans, some are long term fans, some are bandwagon and some are diehard. I don't understand the need to beat your chest and talk down other new fans because your a 'diehard'. Yea your a bigger fan than me Cleveland is only my no.2 team, I freely acknowledge that and respect that like I'm sure almost all the Texas A&M / Browns new fans do. No need to beat your chest and turn your nose up, every team has bandwagon fans and it's not that bad of a thing. Personally I like my team to be relevant, for people to be talking about them, for them to be interesting, and I want them to have some bandwagon fans. Some will be laughable at jumping on the bandwagon (something I don't think any of the 'new browns fans' have really done), some are good fans, potential fans, looking for a team because for whatever reason they weren't born in a big city metro with an nfl team, or any area where college football is king and didn't grow up rooting for an nfl team as a kid or they never really got into football or their dad was never a football fan and / or never passed a team and a passion down to them. That doesn't mean these people aren't good fans now or that they can't become diehard lifelong fans of a team, if they are passionate and looking for a good reason to adopt and nfl team and start following the nfl more than they use to or actually or already follow a ton but dont have a team yet.
Time will tell but why be so abrasive and argumentive about it. I don't understand it. Do business turn down new customers? or do they look for new markets to penetrate and establish new clintele? isn't growing the fan base a good thing for the team, and the fans whose team will get more coverage, more nationally televised games, more money so going a little over the cap or spending for that free agent isn't such a big concern? I mean I swear some of the fans I read are like tortured Cubs fans you would rather the team stink forever and console yourself at how great of a hardcore fan you are than actually succeed and have to share the "glory" of being a fan with a few more people.
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Tommy, I don't disagree with you - every team wants new fans, every team will inevitably welcome bandwagon guys that increase revenue streams. That is not the problem. The problem - I believe? - is that this month, we've had a boatload of new fans telling us that now we have Manziel, we're going to be champions. Great, excellent, I really hope you're right.
But we also had a similar thing a couple of years ago, with Weeden fans and Richardson fans. "Now you've got TRich, you're going to score at least two rushing TDs every game! And Weeden has a great arm and is super mature, there's no way you can fail!"
Before that, there were the Colt McCoy homers. The 'winningest' - can't believe that word exists by the way - QB in college history, great guy, family values kinda guy with intangibles off the charts. Just plug him in and watch him go. Except that didn't quite work out either.
Before that you had the Quinn guys, and before that there were more. I really, really hope beyond all hope that you guys are the last set of guys telling us that now we have you're guy we're going to be relevant, because it will mean that we've won lots and we are relevant. But until that happens, there's going to be a bucketload of scepticism and cynicism from the 'seasoned' fans around here that have been through it all before and seen the latest 'next sure thing' fail to drag this team out of the dumps.
That probably says more about the team and environment for a new QB coming in than it does the individual QBs - after a while you have to question the structure, but that's a conversation for another day.
So please, let's be excited for September and all the possibilities it brings, while also requiring that JFF actually achieve something in a Browns uniform outside of throwing some passes in rookie camps.
And after all that, welcome, to each and every one of our new fans - don't mind the grumpies around here, they're always like that
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There's also the fact that it's two types of fans. The JF fans are not really fans of the Browns. If they traded JF to the Chiefs tomorrow, they would be KC Chief fans and go back to forgetting/ignoring the Browns as they did previously. There might be some really rare exceptions where a JF fan stayed because they got involved and became a Browns fan, but not likely. (Is there even one member still here that arrived because they followed Weeden, McCoy, Quinn, Anderson, Frye, etc...?)
Posing a question to the long-time Aggie fans: What if a Browns fan became an A&M fan strictly because of Manziel now being a Brown? Then if he doesn't pan out here, that association dissolves. Not sure if it ever works backwards like that, but I'm sure it's happened somewhere.
In the wake of success (hopefully), Browns fans are celebrating the Browns winning. (And for many, winning after enduring so much losing.) JF fans are celebrating his success alone in the NFL, who it just happens to be with the Browns. It's hard to just lump all the fans together as one group. For me anyways. Perhaps with time that will change, and only with time. But right now, it is what it is.
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There's also the fact that it's two types of fans. The JF fans are not really fans of the Browns. If they traded JF to the Chiefs tomorrow, they would be KC Chief fans and go back to forgetting/ignoring the Browns as they did previously. There might be some really rare exceptions where a JF fan stayed because they got involved and became a Browns fan, but not likely. (Is there even one member still here that arrived because they followed Weeden, McCoy, Quinn, Anderson, Frye, etc...?)
Posing a question to the long-time Aggie fans: What if a Browns fan became an A&M fan strictly because of Manziel now being a Brown? Then if he doesn't pan out here, that association dissolves. Not sure if it ever works backwards like that, but I'm sure it's happened somewhere.
In the wake of success (hopefully), Browns fans are celebrating the Browns winning. (And for many, winning after enduring so much losing.) JF fans are celebrating his success alone in the NFL, who it just happens to be with the Browns. It's hard to just lump all the fans together as one group. For me anyways. Perhaps with time that will change, and only with time. But right now, it is what it is.
Posing a question to the long-time Aggie fans: What if a Browns fan became an A&M fan strictly because of Manziel now being a Brown? Then if he doesn't pan out here, that association dissolves. Not sure if it ever works backwards like that, but I'm sure it's happened somewhere.
Welcome aboard!
Whatever reason you cheered for the Aggies I'd welcome you.
What I wouldn't do is belittle you for the reason.
Whatever happens on the future, we'll deal with that then.
Que sera, sera.
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Perhaps, but that is a different issue on whether the entire "team" moved to Baltimore. TCPO believes the team consists only of the players.....and like I said, then the team we are going to put on the field this fall must not be the Cleveland Browns. Lots and lots and lots of the players on last years roster....last year's "team" are no longer here, so this next year the team must not be the Cleveland Browns....so what are they, The Cleveland Ecrus?
And yea, tell us about how much the players are "the team". Tell that to player Elhadji Ndiaye, signed Thursday, cut yesterday.
Anthony Dima, signed last Tuesday, Cut yesterday. About 3 or 4 other "team members" had that distinction of being "the team known as the Cleveland Browns"....for about a week.
Cornseed.
No, they will be the Browns. They will be the 2014 Cleveland Browns, composed of some of the 2013 Cleveland Browns. Just as the 1996 Ravens were composed of some of the 1995 Cleveland Browns.
Being a judge makes you no less wrong, it just means you're good at nitpicking. You're debating something for no reason other than to debate it, like you always do.
No, they will be the Browns. They will be the 2014 Cleveland Browns, composed of some of the 2013 Cleveland Browns. Just as the 1996 Ravens were composed of some of the 1995 Cleveland Browns.
That is right, like I said all along......some of the players on the 1996 Ravens happened to be some of the players on the 1995 Browns; many were not. Some of the players on the 2013 Browns will also be members of the 2014 Browns; many will not.
Players= fungible assets...cornseed
Being a judge makes you no less wrong, it just means you're good at nitpicking. You're debating something for no reason other than to debate it, like you always do.
Being a judge doesn't make me less wrong when I am wrong. Here, I am right. And that is not debatable.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Well why i was asking about the word organized. Browns have the most clubs. My original point was about dealing with popularity which clearly the Cowboys are #1. A number of polls prove that point while Browns are down in the 20s. Regardless, at the end of the day i would trade a Super Bowl trophy over popularity.
Polls:
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/10/16/Research-and-Ratings/Harris-Poll.aspx
Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche is more popular than the Beatles so you know put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche is more popular than the Beatles so you know put that in your pipe and smoke it.
OK, I have my candidate for most ignorant post of the decade so far. I will assume that you were not alive when the Beatles came out and were in their prime?
As one who has been alive ever since that time, I can assure unequivocally that NO phenomena that has ever occurred in society has ever been more popular than The Beatles.
than The Beatles. Nothing has come close....not in music, entertainment, sports....anything.
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Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche is more popular than the Beatles so you know put that in your pipe and smoke it.
OK, I have my candidate for most ignorant post of the decade so far. I will assume that you were not alive when the Beatles came out and were in their prime?
As one who has been alive ever since that time, I can assure unequivocally that NO phenomena that has ever occurred in society has ever been more popular than The Beatles.
than The Beatles. Nothing has come close....not in music, entertainment, sports....anything.
OK, I have my candidate for most ignorant post of the decade so far. I will assume that you were not alive when the Beatles came out and were in their prime?
As one who has been alive ever since that time, I can assure unequivocally that NO phenomena that has ever occurred in society has ever been more popular than The Beatles.
than The Beatles. Nothing has come close....not in music, entertainment, sports....anything.
I think he was talking about currently. As in, in context, the cowboys once were the most popular team in America, in the same way that the beatles were once the most popular band in America, but currently, Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche is more popular, suggesting that a team other than the boys could now be most popular.
What was once the case isn't necessarily the case, etc.
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I think some on here are big Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche fans.
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There's something that most probably don't understand if your not from the south. The NFL isn't really popular in the south. College football is the thing. Until 95, there was the falcons aand the redskins and I guess miami.So now, its growing in the south because we have some more teams. College stars end up leaving SEC teams and college fans follow them. Its a positive thing I think! This year I have 3 games I can get to!
There's something that most probably don't understand if your not from the south. The NFL isn't really popular in the south. College football is the thing. Until 95, there was the falcons aand the redskins and I guess miami.So now, its growing in the south because we have some more teams. College stars end up leaving SEC teams and college fans follow them. Its a positive thing I think! This year I have 3 games I can get to!
I don't think that you can say that to be totally true. More of a generalization. If you consider Florida "the South", the folks in Miami and Tampa areas are more into the NFL than college football. That is also probably true for the likes of New Orleans or Atlanta, but sure, in places like S. Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, rural Georgia, northern FLa. that is certainly true. My father in law lived in SC until he passed away last year and became a big Gamecock fan when he retired down there.
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