Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@douche-nozzle said:
This represents exactly what I mean about most Browns fans, once the facts are put on the table, they stop talking. Maybe tml1138 had to go but what about the rest of you chest-thumpers?
Except, of course, as is natural for a Steeler fan, you misrepresented the facts even as you were giving them.
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Well... perhaps the multi-quote glitch is gone...
@douche-nozzle said:
Maybe the Browns finally have a front office? Maybe they intend to knock the Johnny Football out of Johnny Manziel and see what he really has? Maybe this front office knew about Gordon but decided to build a team beyond THIS YEAR? I for one am very interested to see if the Browns might finally have a front office. I'm also interested to see how many Browns fans organize a mass suicide because building for the future is unacceptable in Cleveland
Our FO has stated that the Gordon news had zero impact on the draft plan. Certainly in part because Gordon's future is up in the air and in part because they new they could rent WRs for a year, if need be.
As for our FOs... excepting the panic-stricken, Wheezy/TR fiasco that was Holmgren's dying breath, we haven't been doing too badly player-wise. And now, although I admit the jury is still out, I think it is pretty clear our FO is even better.
PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?
As you well know he is not. What is Farmer? Our talent-evaluator-in-chief... Seen any sign that our HC disagrees at this point?
To expect anything other than JM being no higher than #2 on the depth chart at this point is ludicrous.
To expect anything other than JM being no higher than #2 on the depth chart at this point is ludicrous.
I think I made it pretty clear I am in line with HC Pettine's thinking: "He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything." When it comes to actually running a team after draft day I only listen to him. It's his baby now, not the owners or anyone in management. So what they say means nothing to me.
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@douche-nozzle said:
As with your previous post and most others you spin up, you are imagining your circumstances without really reading. I will type this slowly for you. Are you ready?
Of the teams in the league at the time of the merger, only the Lions have a worse record.
OK, fine, I didn't belabor reading over your drivel....though I am not sure why you should limit that to just those teams in existance as of the date of the merger.
But...even then, you are still a douchnozzle and wrong and still failed to read your own link.
Last time I looked, the Cardinals were a team in existance at that time as well as the Browns and Lions.
So, you were double dumbass wrong.
P.S. Douchebag..... you don't amass the second worst record over 44 years in the last 14 years. It's been a long, bad, 44 year ride with one 4 year period where they looked up over the toilet seat and then plunged right back to the bottom of the outhouse.
Prove it. Do a complete record search of what they were between 1970 to 1995. I suggest they had over a .500 record for those years.
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@douche-nozzle said:
I showed you a link and you didn't like it but I would challenge you to prove where that link is wrong. You are such a huge windbag, you make shit up all the time, you lie, you act like an attorney for Christ sake. But hey, you like yourself and that's all that counts
Jesus Christ you're boring...
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@douche-nozzle said:
I showed you a link and you didn't like it but I would challenge you to prove where that link is wrong. You are such a huge windbag, you make shit up all the time, you lie, you act like an attorney for Christ sake. But hey, you like yourself and that's all that counts
Who's this cunt?
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@douche-nozzle said:
I showed you a link and you didn't like it but I would challenge you to prove where that link is wrong. You are such a huge windbag, you make shit up all the time, you lie, you act like an attorney for Christ sake. But hey, you like yourself and that's all that counts
OK, yes, I showed you to be wrong and you have a silly hissy fit. The link is not wrong.....your characterization of the Browns as having the second worst record is wrong. (they are 3rd worst). I mean, I am sorry that you cannot count to 3.
By the way windbag, the Cardinals played in other cities for 23 of those years. Now if you want to factor in the record of the old Browns since they went to Baltimore, the numbers would look a lot better.
What difference does the Cardinals moving matter. That is the same franchise that moved. And there is no such thing as "old Browns" that ever moved to Baltimore. The Browns here are the same franchise that has been here since 1946. I am sorry if you are ignorant of the fact concerning that matter.
If you are going to continue to have me, a lawyer as you point out, continue to educate about NFL history, then I am going to start to have to charge you my hourly rate.
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98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Cherry picking I see. Is there a point to this crap?
You act like all those pretty little numbers that lead you too conclusions were all ray farmer picks.
Smart people realize history doesn't dictate the future....or do you relish being stuck in the past?
Terrible thread.
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I know what it is....SOUR GRAPES!
Here's a suggestion: Sometime try posting something positive. If you can't find anything positive, don't post.
This "dig in the past" negativity shit is getting old, at least in my opinion. I think I'll stick with the high road & actually support the Browns.
Mike
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@douche-nozzle said:
The point is that there is a reason Johnny was there at 22. Can't you see that? Do you honestly believe that the team that has done THE worst job of drafting and performing for the past 40 years is really smarter than the rest of the NFL world?
Why not be excited but contain the boasting and trash talking until the organization and the new QB actually do something?
what was the reason Dan Marino was available at 27? Why was Joe Montana available at 82? Why was Tom Brady available at 199? Aaron Rodgers at 24? Drew Brees at 32? All these guys apparently had more doubters than Manziel. Who cares? You can find negatives about ANYBODY and harp on them all they want why not try look at the positives. Try to remember that the people who drafted Manziel are different than who picked Couch / Weeden / Quinn, ect, and its faulty logic to act like the front office is doomed to failure because people who aren't in the organization anymore made back picks.
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You guys are so keen to shit on these stat lines and tell me to stop living in the miserable last, yet Brian Hoyer's 2013 season is nestled in there and nobody noticed.
So...why exactly is everyone so excited to see him start?
The post achieved what it needed. It proved that you, like so many others on this board, are a short-sighted imbecile who knows absolutely nothing about the shit you're spouting off about.
You pick a guy, proclaim him to be great because of some completely ridiculous reason, call him shit when he turns out to be terrible, and pick a new guy.
Repeat ad nauseum.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
its not coaching, even if the coaches were bad none of the Cleveland QBs went to other teams and proved that coaching was the thing holding them back. It's just bad management and picking. The Browns aren't doomed to failure but the previous GMs made bad picks and bad free agent signings and guys like Couch / Quinn / Weeden just weren't NFL starter caliber. Remember there are only 32 starters in the NFL and only about half of them are worth starting so your talking about 15 decent QBs ranging probably 10-12 years in age. There are 120 college teams in FBS with starting QBs and a ton more to consider from FCS or lower levels (cant be ruled out as a few guys like Flacco turn out to be legit). So your looking at over 1000 QBs in 10 years trying to find the, even if we could some guys that retired already, maybe 30-40 players that are Franchise QBs. It is not an easy job or guarenteed to be successful, and Cleveland isn't the only "stupid" team that in reality isn't "stupid" but just hasn't been good enough. Even still, part of it is a gamble, and the best coach in the league or the best GM in the league can crap out too because of unknown variables. Sooner or later Cleveland will get it right, I believe they just did, but thats besides the point, just gotta keep grinding and trying to get better decision makers and better evaluators to improve your chances at guessing right or be lucky enough to get the no.1 pick in one of the years that happens about every 10 years or so where there is a 99 percent can't miss guy at number one (Elway, Manning, Luck)
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I am so happy you included Hoyer. Yes he got the ball out quick; yes he won two (full) games. However his stats did not show a Top 20 QB. Also what is interesting is the Football Outsiders DYAR analytic (Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement) rate this:
Jason Campbell + 9
Brian Hoyer + 6
Brandon Weeden - 429 (So bad I can't even explain)
(Yes they were all playing with the two worst receivers in the league in Greg Little and Davone Bess)
The point I'm trying to make is that Hoyer is average at the moment. The guy could come in and play awful, or light it up, or play average (like his career stats indicate). I wouldn't mind Hoyer playing until the early bye and then have the coaches decide that it's Manziel's time. I truly believe that the extra three (real) games of film study will do Manziel wonders.
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I like Hoyer, you have to love the hometown story. Im not such a homer however that I dont realize the small sample size we got from about 2 1/2 games as a starter. In fairness its also too small to say he was bad either. I just hope that either he or Manziel can step up big.
Btw which statline is Hoyers from 2013? I show he had 5 TDs to 3 INTs, I dont see that in the stats above.
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I like Hoyer, you have to love the hometown story. Im not such a homer however that I dont realize the small sample size we got from about 2 1/2 games as a starter. In fairness its also too small to say he was bad either. I just hope that either he or Manziel can step up big.
Btw which statline is Hoyers from 2013? I show he had 5 TDs to 3 INTs, I dont see that in the stats above.
His was his career stat line, I should have been more clear.I like Hoyer, you have to love the hometown story. Im not such a homer however that I dont realize the small sample size we got from about 2 1/2 games as a starter. In fairness its also too small to say he was bad either. I just hope that either he or Manziel can step up big.
Btw which statline is Hoyers from 2013? I show he had 5 TDs to 3 INTs, I dont see that in the stats above.
I looked at his career, and since it was such a small sample size, I compared it to the single seasons of some of the QB's people like to shittalk.
I tried to stick to small samples (3-8) games, like seasons where they got injured or lost the starting position for comparison.
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really?
you're hilarious. talk about a homer (coastal carolina). so you can bitch about clevelanders liking hoyer but it's ok that you like thigpen. do you really want to compare his #'s?
wtf?
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Po..... why not post the over-produced highlight reels that were out there for TR?
remember this gem?
just goes to show you you can polish up a turd to make it look good.
(and no, i'm not saying that about manziel freaks..........i'm saying anyone can produce a highlight reel to make taking a dump look like an olympic feat)
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really?
you're hilarious. talk about a homer (coastal carolina). so you can bitch about clevelanders liking hoyer but it's ok that you like thigpen. do you really want to compare his #'s?
wtf?
really?
you're hilarious. talk about a homer (coastal carolina). so you can bitch about clevelanders liking hoyer but it's ok that you like thigpen. do you really want to compare his #'s?
wtf?
Yes, I do. That's the whole point.
Why don't you do research before you spew bullshit out of your ass?
Thigpen's 2008- his 11 games as a starter for KC:
230-420 54.8% 2,608 YDS 18 TD 12 INT 76.0 RAT
His stat line in his first season wasn't unlike that of Hoyer's...so why shouldn't he be included? Just because you don't know shit about him, because you've never heard his name on ESPN?
Thigpen didn't have the luxury of having anyone to bail him out in KC in 2008. Their defense finished with rankings between 30-32 in ever single major statistical category and they were without their starting running back for most of the year. Larry Johnson finished the season with less than 900 yards, Thigpen was not only their best QB but also the second leading rusher.
The Chiefs implemented the spread offense in Week 5, and Thigpen's numbers significantly climbed after. After the implementation of the spread offense (not unlike Shanahan's), Thigpen threw for 16 TD's and 8 INT's and had a rating of 85.
Please, tell me why Hoyer deserves the shot. Use stats. Any stats. Anything. Because so far, you haven't been able to say jack shit...like usual.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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