OTA Early Report (Which Means Nothing)
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My shrine is devoted to starting the quarterback who gives us the best chance to win.
Not blowing a quarterback because he's from
Cleveland, or because he's colleges best QB, or because he's from Coastal.
Shanahan is expected to run heavily out of the Pistol formation. Thigpen's experience, both in college and in the NFL, is from the pistol.
My evaluations are based off the personnel and scheme fit, not off where a guy was born.
Thigpen fits the scheme better and he just so happens to have more NFL experience than any other QB on the roster. He's also not coming off a rather devastating knee injury.
What exactly makes Hoyer the guaranteed starter? His mediocre performance against the leagues worst passing defense? His mediocre performance against a defense missing 3 of their 4 defensive backfield starters?
Don't try to act better than the JF fanboys when you're equally as guilty of worshipping Hoyer for no reason other than he's from Cleveland. The wins in Minnesota and Cincy were nice, but it was hardly like Hoyer put them team on his back.
It's like Tour, Mike and I are the only ones who actually judge players based off how they can help the football team on the field.
bullshit. you just came on and villified someone for not liking manziel and you got butthurt when i dissed thigpen. so you DO NOT care who gives us the best chance to win. you are just another QB fagboy.
btw i'm not from cleveland so there is no loyalty there with me BUT between all the queefs lining up to scream for 'their' guy (thigpen, manziel, the guy from SC?) you'd think hoyer was just some bum.
don't be crying when the dude is the browns starting QB. i sure as hell won't be if he's not.
just fuggin win.
bullshit. you just came on and villified someone for not liking manziel and you got butthurt when i dissed thigpen. so you DO NOT care who gives us the best chance to win. you are just another QB fagboy.
btw i'm not from cleveland so there is no loyalty there with me BUT between all the queefs lining up to scream for 'their' guy (thigpen, manziel, the guy from SC?) you'd think hoyer was just some bum.
don't be crying when the dude is the browns starting QB. i sure as hell won't be if he's not.
just fuggin win.
I didn't villify him for not liking Manziel. I villified him for sounding like a pussy.
When 95% of your posts are passive-aggressive, sarcastic posts about a single player that you didn't want, you sound like a pussy. I didn't even want Manziel, but you don't see me being a butthurt bitch about it.
And that's the thing, Hoyer is some bum. With the way people are claiming that he's the bonafide starter and that Manziel or Thigpen have to unseat him (like it's a fucking huge challenge), you'd think Hoyer was an All-Pro world beater. He's not.
The dude is a career backup who just happened to have one very mediocre game and one decent game for us that resulted in wins. He has a career QB rating of 77.4, has thrown only one more TD than INT (7:6), and has played for just as many teams as he has started and completed an NFL game.
If he was from Buttfuck, Oregon, nobody would care this much about him. But, since he's from Cleveland, he just happens to be the fucking heir apparent.
The level of homerism, whether its centered around Manziel or Hoyer, is rampant around here.
I don't care who fucking wins the job, but don't claim that it's Hoyer's to lose or Manziel's to win. It's anybody's to win. There's a solid chance Hoyer doesn't even make the roster. If you were unbiased, you'd see that.
One of these 4 QB's has to go...why is it so crazy that it's the 30 year old with only four starts, a bad knee and less experience running the Pistol than the other three QB's?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
But, but he was a star at St. Ignatius.
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bullshit. you just came on and villified someone for not liking manziel and you got butthurt when i dissed thigpen. so you DO NOT care who gives us the best chance to win. you are just another QB fagboy.
btw i'm not from cleveland so there is no loyalty there with me BUT between all the queefs lining up to scream for 'their' guy (thigpen, manziel, the guy from SC?) you'd think hoyer was just some bum.
don't be crying when the dude is the browns starting QB. i sure as hell won't be if he's not.
just fuggin win.
I didn't villify him for not liking Manziel. I villified him for sounding like a pussy.
When 95% of your posts are passive-aggressive, sarcastic posts about a single player that you didn't want, you sound like a pussy. I didn't even want Manziel, but you don't see me being a butthurt bitch about it.
And that's the thing, Hoyer is some bum. With the way people are claiming that he's the bonafide starter and that Manziel or Thigpen have to unseat him (like it's a fucking huge challenge), you'd think Hoyer was an All-Pro world beater. He's not.
The dude is a career backup who just happened to have one very mediocre game and one decent game for us that resulted in wins. He has a career QB rating of 77.4, has thrown only one more TD than INT (7:6), and has played for just as many teams as he has started and completed an NFL game.
If he was from Buttfuck, Oregon, nobody would care this much about him. But, since he's from Cleveland, he just happens to be the fucking heir apparent.
The level of homerism, whether its centered around Manziel or Hoyer, is rampant around here.
I don't care who fucking wins the job, but don't claim that it's Hoyer's to lose or Manziel's to win. It's anybody's to win. There's a solid chance Hoyer doesn't even make the roster. If you were unbiased, you'd see that.
One of these 4 QB's has to go...why is it so crazy that it's the 30 year old with only four starts, a bad knee and less experience running the Pistol than the other three QB's?
I didn't villify him for not liking Manziel. I villified him for sounding like a pussy.
When 95% of your posts are passive-aggressive, sarcastic posts about a single player that you didn't want, you sound like a pussy. I didn't even want Manziel, but you don't see me being a butthurt bitch about it.
And that's the thing, Hoyer is some bum. With the way people are claiming that he's the bonafide starter and that Manziel or Thigpen have to unseat him (like it's a fucking huge challenge), you'd think Hoyer was an All-Pro world beater. He's not.
The dude is a career backup who just happened to have one very mediocre game and one decent game for us that resulted in wins. He has a career QB rating of 77.4, has thrown only one more TD than INT (7:6), and has played for just as many teams as he has started and completed an NFL game.
If he was from Buttfuck, Oregon, nobody would care this much about him. But, since he's from Cleveland, he just happens to be the fucking heir apparent.
The level of homerism, whether its centered around Manziel or Hoyer, is rampant around here.
I don't care who fucking wins the job, but don't claim that it's Hoyer's to lose or Manziel's to win. It's anybody's to win. There's a solid chance Hoyer doesn't even make the roster. If you were unbiased, you'd see that.
One of these 4 QB's has to go...why is it so crazy that it's the 30 year old with only four starts, a bad knee and less experience running the Pistol than the other three QB's?
Is he the sure fire starter. No. But your a fucking idiot if you think there is any chance he doesn't make the roster.
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I didn't villify him for not liking Manziel. I villified him for sounding like a pussy.
When 95% of your posts are passive-aggressive, sarcastic posts about a single player that you didn't want, you sound like a pussy. I didn't even want Manziel, but you don't see me being a butthurt bitch about it.
And that's the thing, Hoyer is some bum. With the way people are claiming that he's the bonafide starter and that Manziel or Thigpen have to unseat him (like it's a fucking huge challenge), you'd think Hoyer was an All-Pro world beater. He's not.
The dude is a career backup who just happened to have one very mediocre game and one decent game for us that resulted in wins. He has a career QB rating of 77.4, has thrown only one more TD than INT (7:6), and has played for just as many teams as he has started and completed an NFL game.
If he was from Buttfuck, Oregon, nobody would care this much about him. But, since he's from Cleveland, he just happens to be the fucking heir apparent.
The level of homerism, whether its centered around Manziel or Hoyer, is rampant around here.
I don't care who fucking wins the job, but don't claim that it's Hoyer's to lose or Manziel's to win. It's anybody's to win. There's a solid chance Hoyer doesn't even make the roster. If you were unbiased, you'd see that.
One of these 4 QB's has to go...why is it so crazy that it's the 30 year old with only four starts, a bad knee and less experience running the Pistol than the other three QB's?
Is he the sure fire starter. No. But your a fucking idiot if you think there is any chance he doesn't make the roster.
Is he the sure fire starter. No. But your a fucking idiot if you think there is any chance he doesn't make the roster.
I'd love to know why.
Other than "He's Brian Hoyer, duhhhh."
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
4th Quarter Hoyer is the fucking man.
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My goodness the idiocy is thick in here.
It's ok to not think Manziel is the guy.
But to argue Hoyer is without offering points to explain your position is?
What athletically can Hoyer do Manziel can't?
The mental bs is over rated.
1. Manziel will catch up in 1/2 a season at minimum
2. Hoyer actually has less experience than Manziel. Manziel has played with all eyes on him under extreme scrutiny and has shined. Moyer hasn't
Reading defenses is great. Making plays is better. Hoyer isn't a playmaker. Otherwise he would have been making plays the last 5 years. Manziel has 1,000 more yards in 2 seasons than Hoyer has in 9. Read that again.
Hoyer wasn't mobile before his knee injury. What can we expect now?
Dismiss as fanboys or whatever
But you're offering zero logic in the form of a rebuttal.
It's like saying jimmy at the tire shop should be qb1 cause he throws billeted to the boys after thanksgiving dinner.
The only logic I see for Hoyer over Manziel actually makes tebow over Hoyer.
Prove you position. I don't see it, seems illogical.
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My goodness the idiocy is thick in here.
It's ok to not think Manziel is the guy.
But to argue Hoyer is without offering points to explain your position is?
What athletically can Hoyer do Manziel can't?
The mental bs is over rated.
1. Manziel will catch up in 1/2 a season at minimum
2. Hoyer actually has less experience than Manziel. Manziel has played with all eyes on him under extreme scrutiny and has shined. Moyer hasn't
Reading defenses is great. Making plays is better. Hoyer isn't a playmaker. Otherwise he would have been making plays the last 5 years. Manziel has 1,000 more yards in 2 seasons than Hoyer has in 9. Read that again.
Hoyer wasn't mobile before his knee injury. What can we expect now?
Dismiss as fanboys or whatever
But you're offering zero logic in the form of a rebuttal.
It's like saying jimmy at the tire shop should be qb1 cause he throws billeted to the boys after thanksgiving dinner.
The only logic I see for Hoyer over Manziel actually makes tebow over Hoyer.
Prove you position. I don't see it, seems illogical.
My goodness the idiocy is thick in here.
It's ok to not think Manziel is the guy.
But to argue Hoyer is without offering points to explain your position is?
What athletically can Hoyer do Manziel can't?
The mental bs is over rated.
1. Manziel will catch up in 1/2 a season at minimum
2. Hoyer actually has less experience than Manziel. Manziel has played with all eyes on him under extreme scrutiny and has shined. Moyer hasn't
Reading defenses is great. Making plays is better. Hoyer isn't a playmaker. Otherwise he would have been making plays the last 5 years. Manziel has 1,000 more yards in 2 seasons than Hoyer has in 9. Read that again.
Hoyer wasn't mobile before his knee injury. What can we expect now?
Dismiss as fanboys or whatever
But you're offering zero logic in the form of a rebuttal.
It's like saying jimmy at the tire shop should be qb1 cause he throws billeted to the boys after thanksgiving dinner.
The only logic I see for Hoyer over Manziel actually makes tebow over Hoyer.
Prove you position. I don't see it, seems illogical.
Cause Ray Farmer says so... i think he knows more than all of us so stfu. Manziel isn't yours anymore so get over it plz.
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The mental part of the game is overrated?
Do you even watch football....manzealoit?
Good god.....the enlarged bandwagon is dragging down the collective football IQ in Cleveland.....and it was already low enough.
I'm not even gonna waste my time to explain all that is wrong with that idiotic post.
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The mental part of the game is overrated?
Do you even watch football....manzealoit?
Good god.....the enlarged bandwagon is dragging down the collective football IQ in Cleveland.....and it was already low enough.
I'm not even gonna waste my time to explain all that is wrong with that idiotic post.
The mental part of the game is overrated?
Do you even watch football....manzealoit?
Good god.....the enlarged bandwagon is dragging down the collective football IQ in Cleveland.....and it was already low enough.
I'm not even gonna waste my time to explain all that is wrong with that idiotic post.
I'm not a Manzealot by any means but I think he makes a (somewhat) good point.
What exactly qualifies Hoyer? What are the reasons behind the love affair?
Because, for all I can see, the people who are claiming Hoyer to be the day one starter have absolutely nothing to back it up with.
Nothing to do with football, at least.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I think it mostly has to do with Hoyer being the closest thing we have to an entrenched starter but I could be wrong.
At this point I just want someone to win the job and prove they deserve it so I don't have to read another damn QB thread.
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I think it mostly has to do with Hoyer being the closest thing we have to an entrenched starter but I could be wrong.
At this point I just want someone to win the job and prove they deserve it so I don't have to read another damn QB thread.
I think it mostly has to do with Hoyer being the closest thing we have to an entrenched starter but I could be wrong.
At this point I just want someone to win the job and prove they deserve it so I don't have to read another damn QB thread.
That's what's sad.
2 starts, 7 TD's and 6 INT's makes an "entrenched starter" in Cleveland. Guys are singing his praises.
It's part of what makes Cleveland a laughingstock.
Call me crazy, but that's shitty QB play all around the board and it's not something to be excited over.
I like Hoyer. As I said before, he's one of two QB's that gave me the "he's got this" feeling. But Jesus, the way some people talk about him here, you'd think he was Tom Fucking Brady.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
The mental part of the game is overrated?
Do you even watch football....manzealoit?
Good god.....the enlarged bandwagon is dragging down the collective football IQ in Cleveland.....and it was already low enough.
I'm not even gonna waste my time to explain all that is wrong with that idiotic post.
I'm not a Manzealot by any means but I think he makes a (somewhat) good point.
What exactly qualifies Hoyer? What are the reasons behind the love affair?
Because, for all I can see, the people who are claiming Hoyer to be the day one starter have absolutely nothing to back it up with.
Nothing to do with football, at least.
I'm not a Manzealot by any means but I think he makes a (somewhat) good point.
What exactly qualifies Hoyer? What are the reasons behind the love affair?
Because, for all I can see, the people who are claiming Hoyer to be the day one starter have absolutely nothing to back it up with.
Nothing to do with football, at least.
And I won't dispute any of that....cause I agree. I'm not on hoyers dick either.
However....I wouldn't say nothing is behind it. He is an average QB....whose football intelligence helps cover his physical deficiencies. Johnny is the opposite....athletic guy that doesn't YET possess the knowledge that will help him become successful. We've thrown enough QBs to the wolves to know that physical talent isn't enough to be consistently good.
What jackoff said I disagree with is that the mental part is overrated. Its certainly not. Per snap reads aren't necessary in college, where a guy can get by on talent alone. Pair johnnys athletics with an understanding of protections, defensive schemes, coverage weakness, and hot reads and he'll light it up.
Send him out unprepared against a dick lebeau defense that's 15-2 against rookie QBs and he just may get hurt.....ala colt. Hoyers advantage is his intelligence and abity to quickly process what he sees and react/make a decision......no deer in headlight syndrome.
Frankly....we've been competitive with awful QB play. Average is all we need to win some games till johnny knows the difference between man vs zone....cover 2 vs cover 3, etc.
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I'm not a Manzealot by any means but I think he makes a (somewhat) good point.
What exactly qualifies Hoyer? What are the reasons behind the love affair?
Because, for all I can see, the people who are claiming Hoyer to be the day one starter have absolutely nothing to back it up with.
Nothing to do with football, at least.
And I won't dispute any of that....cause I agree. I'm not on hoyers dick either.
However....I wouldn't say nothing is behind it. He is an average QB....whose football intelligence helps cover his physical deficiencies. Johnny is the opposite....athletic guy that doesn't YET possess the knowledge that will help him become successful. We've thrown enough QBs to the wolves to know that physical talent isn't enough to be consistently good.
What jackoff said I disagree with is that the mental part is overrated. Its certainly not. Per snap reads aren't necessary in college, where a guy can get by on talent alone. Pair johnnys athletics with an understanding of protections, defensive schemes, coverage weakness, and hot reads and he'll light it up.
Send him out unprepared against a dick lebeau defense that's 15-2 against rookie QBs and he just may get hurt.....ala colt. Hoyers advantage is his intelligence and abity to quickly process what he sees and react/make a decision......no deer in headlight syndrome.
Frankly....we've been competitive with awful QB play. Average is all we need to win some games till johnny knows the difference between man vs zone....cover 2 vs cover 3, etc.
And I won't dispute any of that....cause I agree. I'm not on hoyers dick either.
However....I wouldn't say nothing is behind it. He is an average QB....whose football intelligence helps cover his physical deficiencies. Johnny is the opposite....athletic guy that doesn't YET possess the knowledge that will help him become successful. We've thrown enough QBs to the wolves to know that physical talent isn't enough to be consistently good.
What jackoff said I disagree with is that the mental part is overrated. Its certainly not. Per snap reads aren't necessary in college, where a guy can get by on talent alone. Pair johnnys athletics with an understanding of protections, defensive schemes, coverage weakness, and hot reads and he'll light it up.
Send him out unprepared against a dick lebeau defense that's 15-2 against rookie QBs and he just may get hurt.....ala colt. Hoyers advantage is his intelligence and abity to quickly process what he sees and react/make a decision......no deer in headlight syndrome.
Frankly....we've been competitive with awful QB play. Average is all we need to win some games till johnny knows the difference between man vs zone....cover 2 vs cover 3, etc.
I agree, the mental aspect is very important. Johnny should sit until he's learned to identify defenses, blitz packages, coverages, et al pre-snap.
Why, however, is it then assumed Hoyer starts? Thigpen has more NFL experience, no history of injuries, is more mobile than Hoyer and is fluent in Shanahan's Pistol/Shotgun based, play-action, read-option, outside the pocket offense.
His stats are similar to Hoyer's, yet he's had the benefit of starting 4 times as many games for teams that had a lot less offensive firepower than Cleveland.
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Maybe I should clarify.
There are two parts of the mental game.
1. The Billy Beene / Lenny Dykstra side.
You can overthink things. Sometimes a f it, I'll stick em is better than over analyzing.
IMO johnny is unmatched in this because he doesn't shit the bed in big moments. In a playoff game right now, I give the mental advantage to Manziel. And it's not even close. Everyone wanted Manziel to fail in BAMA II. Even auburn alums ( like Barkley). Johnny gained more yards than anyone has ever gained on Alabama. That's big state production. HUUUUUUGE part of the mental game. Hoyer is untested. Johnny isn't.
2, X's $ O's
Manziel scored a 32 on the wonderlic; he's not an idiot. The poor decision making people often criticize was actually the opposite. Johnny football came out on 3rd down, johnny Manziel was 1&2. He played risk/reward very well. Also, teams have tried EVERYTHING on him. He's going to catch up with Hoyer in no time. This slight edge to Hoyer isn't enough to make up for M1 and physical differences.
Otherwise HE WOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOOTBALL.
You guys have zero clue who johnny is, it's almost hilarious. You're going to be pleasantly surprised and feel pretty dumb.
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How many snaps has johnny taken in the NFL?
Oh...none you say? He is the very definition of untested.
Hoyer is only slightly tested....
TCPO correctly reminds us that thigpen is moderately tested.
Its sad you think college production....a mere 2 years at that....is even close to the NFL production. Johnny never even had a damn playbook. Never called protections.
Yet you honks think its going to be such an easy transition. You greatly overexaggerate his ability much the same way you accuse others of underestimating him. Irony at its finest.
He was 4-4 in the SEC last year....and you honks still say he "dominated" college football. LSU an mizz shut his one dimensional ass down. You think NFL DCs aren't smart enough to figure him out?
No...you don't. Cause your blind to reality. Simpletons such as yourself cannot distinguish between college production and NFL production. The list of heisman winning busts is much longer than heisman successes. If college success predicted NFL success, everyone could be a GM.
You manzeilots are nauseating. Get a fucking clue.
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Only smoke and spin cause you don't like the content.
Its the right answer....right now.
By all account, Lil john is a smart cat....he will eventually learn. Hoyer has a few years on him though, and that's what pettine is speaking to. No amount of johnny love changes the facts that he isn't adept at reading defenses yet, or that he never had a play book till now.
He is better served to learn the tools that will enable him to succeed. While you think he's a god and will pick up all that info in a couple months, reality dictates it will take a bit longer. If you truly want him to succeed, calm the fuck down. You're preconceived notions of draft slot dictating starter status are purely the result of your fandom....not reality.
Start him when he's ready.....but not before. I want a QB to finally pan out rather than playing him before he's ready. If you don't realize he has some things to learn, you're in for a long season.
Only smoke and spin cause you don't like the content.
Its the right answer....right now.
By all account, Lil john is a smart cat....he will eventually learn. Hoyer has a few years on him though, and that's what pettine is speaking to. No amount of johnny love changes the facts that he isn't adept at reading defenses yet, or that he never had a play book till now.
He is better served to learn the tools that will enable him to succeed. While you think he's a god and will pick up all that info in a couple months, reality dictates it will take a bit longer. If you truly want him to succeed, calm the fuck down. You're preconceived notions of draft slot dictating starter status are purely the result of your fandom....not reality.
Start him when he's ready.....but not before. I want a QB to finally pan out rather than playing him before he's ready. If you don't realize he has some things to learn, you're in for a long season.
Exactly this^^ think of JF as the new kick ass prototype car. You know that its gonna be sweet, but there are some bugs to work out and fine tuning to do still. Once you get all that ironed out, then you put it out on the road. Once JF works his kinks out and becomes NFL ready, then let him roll, but not before hes ready....
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@mike-h said:
Hoyers first pass was intercepted in 11-on-11's
Because it was tipped off Anthony Armstrong's hands...
Hmmm...very convenient omission....
I wonder why that is.....a "media" member spinning facts to suit his narrative....oh, how delicious lay surprising....
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lol....@walterwhite said:
Oh you self righteous "holier than thou" Ivory Tower schmuck.
We all have a difference of opinion but to act like your oh so higher than everyone...
who didn't smack the fuck out of you as a young man?
There's so many ways I could go with this.....
In the interest of the thread...let's go high road, cause its obvious you lack the mental fortitude to argue the football points. Rather, you insult at a grade school level.
I'm glad johnny is here....but I'm not going to ignore his deficiencies in the same vein on not gonna ignore anyone else's. There's been a heavy influx of you that would literally polish johnny knob because he's your hero.....whereas I'm (and many other "haters") are more pragmatic about his future. Yo don't even realize I want him to sit and learn to increase his chances of success.....while the honks want him to play because he's johnny flicking football.
If you were realistic about his game, rather than take the tact that he can do no wrong and is ready to destroy the league, you'd find I'm not as negative as you think.
I feel an obligation to temper the hype because this isn't college anymore. A knowledgeable johnny is better than an improvising johnny. You're so short sighted that you think he's got all the tools he needs to win.
But instead of arguing points, you're only recourse is to insiuate people are jealous because you're not smart enough to disseminate you opinion intelligently.
You're out ta you're league little man. Its you're bed time.
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