Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
You guys are so keen to shit on these stat lines and tell me to stop living in the miserable last, yet Brian Hoyer's 2013 season is nestled in there and nobody noticed.
So...why exactly is everyone so excited to see him start?
The post achieved what it needed. It proved that you, like so many others on this board, are a short-sighted imbecile who knows absolutely nothing about the shit you're spouting off about.
You pick a guy, proclaim him to be great because of some completely ridiculous reason, call him shit when he turns out to be terrible, and pick a new guy.
Repeat ad nauseum.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
its not coaching, even if the coaches were bad none of the Cleveland QBs went to other teams and proved that coaching was the thing holding them back. It's just bad management and picking. The Browns aren't doomed to failure but the previous GMs made bad picks and bad free agent signings and guys like Couch / Quinn / Weeden just weren't NFL starter caliber. Remember there are only 32 starters in the NFL and only about half of them are worth starting so your talking about 15 decent QBs ranging probably 10-12 years in age. There are 120 college teams in FBS with starting QBs and a ton more to consider from FCS or lower levels (cant be ruled out as a few guys like Flacco turn out to be legit). So your looking at over 1000 QBs in 10 years trying to find the, even if we could some guys that retired already, maybe 30-40 players that are Franchise QBs. It is not an easy job or guarenteed to be successful, and Cleveland isn't the only "stupid" team that in reality isn't "stupid" but just hasn't been good enough. Even still, part of it is a gamble, and the best coach in the league or the best GM in the league can crap out too because of unknown variables. Sooner or later Cleveland will get it right, I believe they just did, but thats besides the point, just gotta keep grinding and trying to get better decision makers and better evaluators to improve your chances at guessing right or be lucky enough to get the no.1 pick in one of the years that happens about every 10 years or so where there is a 99 percent can't miss guy at number one (Elway, Manning, Luck)
-
I am so happy you included Hoyer. Yes he got the ball out quick; yes he won two (full) games. However his stats did not show a Top 20 QB. Also what is interesting is the Football Outsiders DYAR analytic (Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement) rate this:
Jason Campbell + 9
Brian Hoyer + 6
Brandon Weeden - 429 (So bad I can't even explain)
(Yes they were all playing with the two worst receivers in the league in Greg Little and Davone Bess)
The point I'm trying to make is that Hoyer is average at the moment. The guy could come in and play awful, or light it up, or play average (like his career stats indicate). I wouldn't mind Hoyer playing until the early bye and then have the coaches decide that it's Manziel's time. I truly believe that the extra three (real) games of film study will do Manziel wonders.
-
I like Hoyer, you have to love the hometown story. Im not such a homer however that I dont realize the small sample size we got from about 2 1/2 games as a starter. In fairness its also too small to say he was bad either. I just hope that either he or Manziel can step up big.
Btw which statline is Hoyers from 2013? I show he had 5 TDs to 3 INTs, I dont see that in the stats above.
-
I like Hoyer, you have to love the hometown story. Im not such a homer however that I dont realize the small sample size we got from about 2 1/2 games as a starter. In fairness its also too small to say he was bad either. I just hope that either he or Manziel can step up big.
Btw which statline is Hoyers from 2013? I show he had 5 TDs to 3 INTs, I dont see that in the stats above.
His was his career stat line, I should have been more clear.I like Hoyer, you have to love the hometown story. Im not such a homer however that I dont realize the small sample size we got from about 2 1/2 games as a starter. In fairness its also too small to say he was bad either. I just hope that either he or Manziel can step up big.
Btw which statline is Hoyers from 2013? I show he had 5 TDs to 3 INTs, I dont see that in the stats above.
I looked at his career, and since it was such a small sample size, I compared it to the single seasons of some of the QB's people like to shittalk.
I tried to stick to small samples (3-8) games, like seasons where they got injured or lost the starting position for comparison.
-
really?
you're hilarious. talk about a homer (coastal carolina). so you can bitch about clevelanders liking hoyer but it's ok that you like thigpen. do you really want to compare his #'s?
wtf?
-
Po..... why not post the over-produced highlight reels that were out there for TR?
remember this gem?
just goes to show you you can polish up a turd to make it look good.
(and no, i'm not saying that about manziel freaks..........i'm saying anyone can produce a highlight reel to make taking a dump look like an olympic feat)
-
really?
you're hilarious. talk about a homer (coastal carolina). so you can bitch about clevelanders liking hoyer but it's ok that you like thigpen. do you really want to compare his #'s?
wtf?
really?
you're hilarious. talk about a homer (coastal carolina). so you can bitch about clevelanders liking hoyer but it's ok that you like thigpen. do you really want to compare his #'s?
wtf?
Yes, I do. That's the whole point.
Why don't you do research before you spew bullshit out of your ass?
Thigpen's 2008- his 11 games as a starter for KC:
230-420 54.8% 2,608 YDS 18 TD 12 INT 76.0 RAT
His stat line in his first season wasn't unlike that of Hoyer's...so why shouldn't he be included? Just because you don't know shit about him, because you've never heard his name on ESPN?
Thigpen didn't have the luxury of having anyone to bail him out in KC in 2008. Their defense finished with rankings between 30-32 in ever single major statistical category and they were without their starting running back for most of the year. Larry Johnson finished the season with less than 900 yards, Thigpen was not only their best QB but also the second leading rusher.
The Chiefs implemented the spread offense in Week 5, and Thigpen's numbers significantly climbed after. After the implementation of the spread offense (not unlike Shanahan's), Thigpen threw for 16 TD's and 8 INT's and had a rating of 85.
Please, tell me why Hoyer deserves the shot. Use stats. Any stats. Anything. Because so far, you haven't been able to say jack shit...like usual.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You guys are so keen to shit on these stat lines and tell me to stop living in the miserable last, yet Brian Hoyer's 2013 season is nestled in there and nobody noticed.
So...why exactly is everyone so excited to see him start?
The post achieved what it needed. It proved that you, like so many others on this board, are a short-sighted imbecile who knows absolutely nothing about the shit you're spouting off about.
You pick a guy, proclaim him to be great because of some completely ridiculous reason, call him shit when he turns out to be terrible, and pick a new guy.
Repeat ad nauseum.
You guys are so keen to shit on these stat lines and tell me to stop living in the miserable last, yet Brian Hoyer's 2013 season is nestled in there and nobody noticed.
Brian's 2013 is in there? Where? Here are his numbers per http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HoyeBr00.htm...
Year 2013 28 CLE G 3 GS 3 QBrec 3-0-0 Cmp 57 Att 96 Cmp% 59.4 Yds 615
TD 5 TD% 5.2 Int 3 Int% 3.1 Lng 47 Y/A 6.4 AY/A 6.0 Y/C 10.8 Y/G 205.0 Rate 82.6
I think you copied his career totals by mistake my friend...
Nonetheless the resume is thin to be sure, but even you said you felt a twinge of "it" watching him vs. MN and Cinci last year.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
This is dumb. Stats? meaning....what?
that Lauvau sp? played poorly at RG on pass plays?
That Little dropped passes?
Going back further, Robieski and Massaquoi sp/sp?
And the "stats" are supposed to reflect how good the qb is?
Really dumb thread. Just more histerical historical bitch festing.
Tired of it, already.
-
You guys are so keen to shit on these stat lines and tell me to stop living in the miserable last, yet Brian Hoyer's 2013 season is nestled in there and nobody noticed.
So...why exactly is everyone so excited to see him start?
The post achieved what it needed. It proved that you, like so many others on this board, are a short-sighted imbecile who knows absolutely nothing about the shit you're spouting off about.
You pick a guy, proclaim him to be great because of some completely ridiculous reason, call him shit when he turns out to be terrible, and pick a new guy.
Repeat ad nauseum.
You guys are so keen to shit on these stat lines and tell me to stop living in the miserable last, yet Brian Hoyer's 2013 season is nestled in there and nobody noticed.
So...why exactly is everyone so excited to see him start?
The post achieved what it needed. It proved that you, like so many others on this board, are a short-sighted imbecile who knows absolutely nothing about the shit you're spouting off about.
You pick a guy, proclaim him to be great because of some completely ridiculous reason, call him shit when he turns out to be terrible, and pick a new guy.
Repeat ad nauseum.
I absolutely DID notice Hoyer's stats were in there- but I was working until 4 hours after you posted it.
OK, fine, you don't like Hoyer and think he's a career backup. You're entitled to you opinion. Maybe he is just another Scott Mitchell 3 game wonder, then again, maybe not. Too bad I get blasted for questioning Manziel, who hasn't even played a snap yet in the NFL.
There are a few instances of qbs being nothing but mediocre their first 5-6 years or so, and finally the light goes on. In my book, Hoyer at least deserves the benefit of the doubt. Unless you think JF stands a better chance of winning the first three games before the bye. We've been down that road before- rushing a high potential qb into a starting role, and seeing him fold line an accordion.
I think we've tried every conceivable option since '99 in the qb market- draft 'em high (Couch, Quinn, We-done) middle (Frye, McCoy) low Wynn. FA's Garcia, Anderson, Delhomme. Trades (Dilfer, Wallace). So I guess why not bring in the mega-hyped Heisman winner, and see if he can break the streak? I'm not holding my breath.
-
I say we bring back Quinn and give him a fair shot.
-
really?
you're hilarious. talk about a homer (coastal carolina). so you can bitch about clevelanders liking hoyer but it's ok that you like thigpen. do you really want to compare his #'s?
wtf?
Yes, I do. That's the whole point.
Why don't you do research before you spew bullshit out of your ass?
Thigpen's 2008- his 11 games as a starter for KC:
230-420 54.8% 2,608 YDS 18 TD 12 INT 76.0 RAT
His stat line in his first season wasn't unlike that of Hoyer's...so why shouldn't he be included? Just because you don't know shit about him, because you've never heard his name on ESPN?
Thigpen didn't have the luxury of having anyone to bail him out in KC in 2008. Their defense finished with rankings between 30-32 in ever single major statistical category and they were without their starting running back for most of the year. Larry Johnson finished the season with less than 900 yards, Thigpen was not only their best QB but also the second leading rusher.
The Chiefs implemented the spread offense in Week 5, and Thigpen's numbers significantly climbed after. After the implementation of the spread offense (not unlike Shanahan's), Thigpen threw for 16 TD's and 8 INT's and had a rating of 85.
Please, tell me why Hoyer deserves the shot. Use stats. Any stats. Anything. Because so far, you haven't been able to say jack shit...like usual.
Please, tell me why Hoyer deserves the shot. Use stats. Any stats. Anything. Because so far, you haven't been able to say jack shit...like usual.
i looked at his numbers (all of them) last night. wtf am i supposed to be impressed with? one season he had decent numbers where he started 14 games 18 tds and 12 ints with a just over 50% completion rate?the season where KC put up their franchise worse record of 2-14? in every other season he has thrown the same or more interceptions as TDs?
that tyler thigpen?
why, all of a sudden, have you turned into some thigpen groupie? what do you mean "hoyer deserves the shot"? they all deserve the shot dude. no one is putting hoyer in the driver's seat yet. thigpen has as much chance as hoyer and manziel do to be the starting QB.
you (and the JF fans) take the fact that if someone says "we liked what we saw from hoyer last year" as a diss towards 'your' boy. it's not like that. do you see me posting about how 'hoyer is the shit' and 'he'll take us to the promised land' and blah blah blah? no. how many threads/posts have there been saying brian hoyer is a future pro-bowler and hall of famer and is the number one QB on this team? none from me.
don't group yourself in with the man/boy love shit going on in this forum right now. i think you're better than that.
and i'll go on record now so you and mike and all the JF queefs understand this.......... i don't give a flying F who QBs this team. hoyer great. thigpen great. manziel great.
you got the starting gig, now win.
-
Take this for what it's worth, CBS Sports doing a "proprietary formula" power ranking on Cleveland's 20 QBs from 1999-2013. I'll spare you the detailed walk down horrible memory lane, but Couch was #4, Hoyer #2, DA #1 (Due to the "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" 2007 year.) (and Delhomme was #3...?)
So DA was the best we ever had up to this point, according to this article. I agree it would seem just bad GM choices. But with Farmer, this is where that stops. I think I'm going to get a jersey with his name on it. Ha!
Wait a minute, so basically if I'm saying Farmer is a GM god, then I must believe in his QB choice of JM? Hmmmm...
-
Take this for what it's worth, CBS Sports doing a "proprietary formula" power ranking on Cleveland's 20 QBs from 1999-2013. I'll spare you the detailed walk down horrible memory lane, but Couch was #4, Hoyer #2, DA #1 (Due to the "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" 2007 year.) (and Delhomme was #3...?)
So DA was the best we ever had up to this point, according to this article. I agree it would seem just bad GM choices. But with Farmer, this is where that stops. I think I'm going to get a jersey with his name on it. Ha!
Wait a minute, so basically if I'm saying Farmer is a GM god, then I must believe in his QB choice of JM? Hmmmm...
Take this for what it's worth, CBS Sports doing a "proprietary formula" power ranking on Cleveland's 20 QBs from 1999-2013. I'll spare you the detailed walk down horrible memory lane, but Couch was #4, Hoyer #2, DA #1 (Due to the "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" 2007 year.) (and Delhomme was #3...?)
So DA was the best we ever had up to this point, according to this article. I agree it would seem just bad GM choices. But with Farmer, this is where that stops. I think I'm going to get a jersey with his name on it. Ha!
Wait a minute, so basically if I'm saying Farmer is a GM god, then I must believe in his QB choice of JM? Hmmmm...
Anderson first, Quinn last ... I guess that settles that age old argument once and for all.
Speaking of which, I think I need to peak my head in the Tard and see how hard Shep is sucking on Johnny's schlong right now.
Zombo
-
@douche-nozzle said:
This represents exactly what I mean about most Browns fans, once the facts are put on the table, they stop talking. Maybe tml1138 had to go but what about the rest of you chest-thumpers?
Yes, as a matter of fact I did leave. Happens all the time on forums.
These are not facts into the Browns being the worst at draft picks for the last 40 years. We could all do some digging to find the real numbers but it's not necessary. And why is it that Steelers fans only want to include NFL records after the 1970 merger?
A huge part of why the Steelers were so successful was their luck at picking up 4 HOF's in the same draft year, 40 years ago. No other team has done that ever, nor have the Steelers ever repeated it. That was lightning in a bottle and pure luck.
-
98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
I think a large portion of it is pure bad luck. Plus bad talent evaluation. In some cases it was a bad supporting cast. Bad coaching, bad ownership, bad general managership. All that comes into play.
-
98 Comp. 164 Att. 59.8% Comp. % 1,002 Yds. 4 TD 5 INT 72.8 Rating
114 Comp. 192 Att. 59.4% Comp.% 1,231 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.4 Rating
120 Comp. 203 Att. 59.1% Comp. % 1,319 Yds. 7 TD 6 INT 77.6 Rating
141 Comp. 267 Att. 52.8% Comp. % 1,731 Yds. 9 TD 9 INT 70.3 Rating
93 Comp. 149 Att. 62.4% Comp. % 872 Yds. 2 TD 7 INT 63.4 Rating
64 Comp. 106 Att. 60.4% Comp. % 790 Yds. 8 TD 4 INT 92.9 Rating
59 Comp. 87 Att. 67.8% Comp. % 737 Yds. 7 TD 5 INT 96.8 Rating
Does anybody care to guess what these are?
These are single season stats from a sample of different Cleveland Browns QB's over the past 15 years. Look at them, they're shitty. A number of them have more TD's than INT's. Many have low completion percentages. Nearly all of them have below average ratings. We haven't had championship-level play from any quarterback since coming back into this league.
Why is it? Is it because the team as a whole is bad? Well, yes. But no Cleveland Brown QB has had any sort of success with any other team in the league after playing with us. So it's not just that we're bad...it's that THEY'RE bad, too.
Our talent evaluation has been awful for the QB position. We've busted on every QB pick we've had in this entire millenium. We've seen QB's come and go. We've seen talented QB's from other clubs come in and then flame out for us. We've seen highly touted college stars wither and die on the shores of Lake Erie. We've gotten our hopes up for untouted, unheralded practice squad guys, only to have those hopes squashed with their first interceptions.
So what, exactly, is it?
its not coaching, even if the coaches were bad none of the Cleveland QBs went to other teams and proved that coaching was the thing holding them back. It's just bad management and picking. The Browns aren't doomed to failure but the previous GMs made bad picks and bad free agent signings and guys like Couch / Quinn / Weeden just weren't NFL starter caliber. Remember there are only 32 starters in the NFL and only about half of them are worth starting so your talking about 15 decent QBs ranging probably 10-12 years in age. There are 120 college teams in FBS with starting QBs and a ton more to consider from FCS or lower levels (cant be ruled out as a few guys like Flacco turn out to be legit). So your looking at over 1000 QBs in 10 years trying to find the, even if we could some guys that retired already, maybe 30-40 players that are Franchise QBs. It is not an easy job or guarenteed to be successful, and Cleveland isn't the only "stupid" team that in reality isn't "stupid" but just hasn't been good enough. Even still, part of it is a gamble, and the best coach in the league or the best GM in the league can crap out too because of unknown variables. Sooner or later Cleveland will get it right, I believe they just did, but thats besides the point, just gotta keep grinding and trying to get better decision makers and better evaluators to improve your chances at guessing right or be lucky enough to get the no.1 pick in one of the years that happens about every 10 years or so where there is a 99 percent can't miss guy at number one (Elway, Manning, Luck)
its not coaching, even if the coaches were bad none of the Cleveland QBs went to other teams and proved that coaching was the thing holding them back. It's just bad management and picking. The Browns aren't doomed to failure but the previous GMs made bad picks and bad free agent signings and guys like Couch / Quinn / Weeden just weren't NFL starter caliber. Remember there are only 32 starters in the NFL and only about half of them are worth starting so your talking about 15 decent QBs ranging probably 10-12 years in age. There are 120 college teams in FBS with starting QBs and a ton more to consider from FCS or lower levels (cant be ruled out as a few guys like Flacco turn out to be legit). So your looking at over 1000 QBs in 10 years trying to find the, even if we could some guys that retired already, maybe 30-40 players that are Franchise QBs. It is not an easy job or guarenteed to be successful, and Cleveland isn't the only "stupid" team that in reality isn't "stupid" but just hasn't been good enough. Even still, part of it is a gamble, and the best coach in the league or the best GM in the league can crap out too because of unknown variables. Sooner or later Cleveland will get it right, I believe they just did, but thats besides the point, just gotta keep grinding and trying to get better decision makers and better evaluators to improve your chances at guessing right or be lucky enough to get the no.1 pick in one of the years that happens about every 10 years or so where there is a 99 percent can't miss guy at number one (Elway, Manning, Luck)
I would not lump Couch in with Weeden and Quinn. Couch started here with absolutely no surrounding cast....and took a team from being simply a team on paper to the playoffs. His problems were an absolutely atrocious offensive line and injuries that ultimately doomed him. But while he was playing he played as well any QB we have had since 1999.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login