Anybody really think a baker should be forced to make
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so why does the "backlash" include legal impugnity?
should be just loss of a certain customer base - now it could be loss of your entire business.
Because it's now illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality (along with race, gender etc).
Because it's now illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality (along with race, gender etc).
Which does belie the statement that "nobody should be *forced* to do anything."
Unless you are opposed to the law.
WSS
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Which does belie the statement that "nobody should be *forced* to do anything."
Unless you are opposed to the law.
WSS
I'm torn on it. I can imagine a scenario where some ex-con, rapist guy comes in to my bakery, and I don't want to serve him. But then the law says he's been through prison and served his time, so should be treated as a regular member of society. I wouldn't want to lose my business because of it.
For example, if Nigel Farage (leader of UKIP, very racist/bigoted party gaining traction here) came in to my pub, I wouldn't want to serve him. But can you really refuse service based on political affiliation?
On the other hand, the whole gay thing doesn't bother me, and most people in my generation are fine with it. It's one thing that will probably just die out with the older generation like my grandparents, and to a lesser extent my parents (who grew up in the 60s/70s and probably are ok with pretty much anything like that), so in 50 years, this won't even be a discussion.
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so why does the "backlash" include legal impugnity?
should be just loss of a certain customer base - now it could be loss of your entire business.
Because it's now illegal to discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality (along with race, gender etc).
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"the whole gay thing" doesn't bother me either however I don't think the opposition to homosexuality as much to do with religion or politics or even generation or anything else. I think the basis is human nature and straight males, whether or not they support the gay agenda, are probably almost all appalled by the idea of sexual contact with a man. Sure somebody is going to chirp they wouldn't want to have sex with an ugly woman but of course that's not close to the same thing. I imagine most of us have been with a woman we consider beneath our station but I can't imagine any of us waking up shaking his head and chuckling over an evening of sodomy. People will always disliked other people and we'll find reasons to do it. I personally think that making any minority a special class of people enforcing loss in which others must defer to them is a bad idea. Balkanization always leads to discontent.
I've said often that if we are free we should be free to be assholes. If there were a shop that refused to serve homosexuals or Negroes or Muslims or Catholics I'd probably find somewhere else to shop.
Then again I would resent being forced to serve the Ku Klux Klan or the Black Panthers or al Qaeda or NAMBLA
WSS
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"the whole gay thing" doesn't bother me either however I don't think the opposition to homosexuality as much to do with religion or politics or even generation or anything else. I think the basis is human nature and straight males, whether or not they support the gay agenda, are probably almost all appalled by the idea of sexual contact with a man. Sure somebody is going to chirp they wouldn't want to have sex with an ugly woman but of course that's not close to the same thing. I imagine most of us have been with a woman we consider beneath our station but I can't imagine any of us waking up shaking his head and chuckling over an evening of sodomy. People will always disliked other people and we'll find reasons to do it. I personally think that making any minority a special class of people enforcing loss in which others must defer to them is a bad idea. Balkanization always leads to discontent.
I've said often that if we are free we should be free to be assholes. If there were a shop that refused to serve homosexuals or Negroes or Muslims or Catholics I'd probably find somewhere else to shop.
Then again I would resent being forced to serve the Ku Klux Klan or the Black Panthers or al Qaeda or NAMBLA
WSS
I've said often that if we are free we should be free to be assholes. If there were a shop that refused to serve homosexuals or Negroes or Muslims or Catholics I'd probably find somewhere else to shop.
Sad thing is, if people were free to be assholes like that, we'd basically end up back with a segregated community again.
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I've said often that if we are free we should be free to be assholes. If there were a shop that refused to serve homosexuals or Negroes or Muslims or Catholics I'd probably find somewhere else to shop.
Sad thing is, if people were free to be assholes like that, we'd basically end up back with a segregated community again.
And maybe it sounds strange coming from me, whom most of you guys think is far to the right, I don't think that's true.Sad thing is, if people were free to be assholes like that, we'd basically end up back with a segregated community again.
I assume the huge majority of people are okay with anybody as long as they are cool. And think about it. You don't like segregation??? From the black Congressional Caucus to the NAACP to the black student unions to the black United students organizations in every college across the United States to the black prom a or the black Miss America or the black this or the black that that are raking in profits for race baiting entrepreneurs? That doesn't lead to segregation in your mind? Please.
WSS
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And maybe it sounds strange coming from me, whom most of you guys think is far to the right, I don't think that's true.Sad thing is, if people were free to be assholes like that, we'd basically end up back with a segregated community again.
I assume the huge majority of people are okay with anybody as long as they are cool. And think about it. You don't like segregation??? From the black Congressional Caucus to the NAACP to the black student unions to the black United students organizations in every college across the United States to the black prom a or the black Miss America or the black this or the black that that are raking in profits for race baiting entrepreneurs? That doesn't lead to segregation in your mind? Please.
WSS
And maybe it sounds strange coming from me, whom most of you guys think is far to the right, I don't think that's true.
I assume the huge majority of people are okay with anybody as long as they are cool. And think about it. You don't like segregation??? From the black Congressional Caucus to the black student unions to the black United students organizations in every college across the United States to the black prom a or the black Miss America or the black this or the black that that are raking in profits for race baiting entrepreneurs? That doesn't lead to segregation in your mind? Please.
WSS
Jesus, I hate those things. Like International Women's Day in my office. Give me a break.
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And maybe it sounds strange coming from me, whom most of you guys think is far to the right, I don't think that's true.
I assume the huge majority of people are okay with anybody as long as they are cool. And think about it. You don't like segregation??? From the black Congressional Caucus to the black student unions to the black United students organizations in every college across the United States to the black prom a or the black Miss America or the black this or the black that that are raking in profits for race baiting entrepreneurs? That doesn't lead to segregation in your mind? Please.
WSS
Jesus, I hate those things. Like International Women's Day in my office. Give me a break.
No doubt. So I think the firestorm surrounding a Baker not wanting to make a gay wedding cake is a little bit of a red herring if we want to talk about coexistence.Jesus, I hate those things. Like International Women's Day in my office. Give me a break.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
You can't "coexist" when you are forced to condone what you don't condone.
That's just radical social engineering/gov in the extreme/democrat fringe.
It's sig heil woodpecker, though on a large scale. That's probly' where he gets it.
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No doubt. So I think the firestorm surrounding a Baker not wanting to make a gay wedding cake is a little bit of a red herring if we want to talk about coexistence.
WSS
There's a very big and very obvious difference between getting annoyed with 'Women in Technology' day, black students' association, People's front of Judea, and refusing to serve women, black people and jews.
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No doubt. So I think the firestorm surrounding a Baker not wanting to make a gay wedding cake is a little bit of a red herring if we want to talk about coexistence.
WSS
There's a very big and very obvious difference between getting annoyed with 'Women in Technology' day, black students' association, People's front of Judea, and refusing to serve women, black people and jews.
There's a very big and very obvious difference between getting annoyed with 'Women in Technology' day, black students' association, People's front of Judea, and refusing to serve women, black people and jews.
It legitimizes Balkanization.
On a wide and accepted scale.
Also you didn't mention those groups of people that you yourself would prefer to refuse service to... probably an oversight.
WSS
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There's a very big and very obvious difference between getting annoyed with 'Women in Technology' day, black students' association, People's front of Judea, and refusing to serve women, black people and jews.
It legitimizes Balkanization.
On a wide and accepted scale.
Also you didn't mention those groups of people that you yourself would prefer to refuse service to... probably an oversight.
WSS
It legitimizes Balkanization.
On a wide and accepted scale.
Also you didn't mention those groups of people that you yourself would prefer to refuse service to... probably an oversight.
WSS
Refusing service to people on those grounds does, yes. Which is what I'm saying (currently, though as discussed, I'm not 100% sure where I stand) is wrong.
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You're forced to bake the cake, so charge them 10x the price. It worked for Donald Sterling & the Clippers. (Not that any of that shit is right, but fuck this mother Russia bullshit we live in today).
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You know, I'm trying to think what it would be like if it happened over here, but I just can't picture a scenario where you'd have that kind of anti-gay discrimination. If it did happen to a gay couple, there would be outrage. If it happened because the customer was muslim, which I think is more likely, there'd be a lot less outrage - there's very little positive feeling towards the muslim community here.
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You know, I'm trying to think what it would be like if it happened over here, but I just can't picture a scenario where you'd have that kind of anti-gay discrimination. If it did happen to a gay couple, there would be outrage. If it happened because the customer was muslim, which I think is more likely, there'd be a lot less outrage - there's very little positive feeling towards the muslim community here.
You know, I'm trying to think what it would be like if it happened over here, but I just can't picture a scenario where you'd have that kind of anti-gay discrimination. If it did happen to a gay couple, there would be outrage. If it happened because the customer was muslim, which I think is more likely, there'd be a lot less outrage - there's very little positive feeling towards the muslim community here.
For that you must read and chant the Quran 5 times.
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Just bake them a crappy cake. Tell them you ran out of sugar or something.
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It legitimizes Balkanization.
On a wide and accepted scale.
Also you didn't mention those groups of people that you yourself would prefer to refuse service to... probably an oversight.
WSS
Refusing service to people on those grounds does, yes. Which is what I'm saying (currently, though as discussed, I'm not 100% sure where I stand) is wrong.
Ok.Refusing service to people on those grounds does, yes. Which is what I'm saying (currently, though as discussed, I'm not 100% sure where I stand) is wrong.
well I guess at the risk beating a dead horse I would say that practices of promoting dozens if not hundreds of separatist minority organizations and activities and then criminalizing discrimination certainly serve to breed contempt.
WSS
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No doubt. So I think the firestorm surrounding a Baker not wanting to make a gay wedding cake is a little bit of a red herring if we want to talk about coexistence.
WSS
There's a very big and very obvious difference between getting annoyed with 'Women in Technology' day, black students' association, People's front of Judea, and refusing to serve women, black people and jews.
There's a very big and very obvious difference between getting annoyed with 'Women in Technology' day, black students' association, People's front of Judea, and refusing to serve women, black people and jews.
Don't you mean the Judean Peoples Front?
Seriously, though, if someone doesn't want to bake me a wedding cake for whatever reason, and I go
to court to force him to do so, in addition to forcing 'sensitivity training' on him and all of his employees, then I
would have to think long and hard if I really want to eat anything made by this guy. Because I gotta tell you,
if I'm the cake-baker, that person is going to get the shittiest tasting cake he could ever imagine.
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I saw Steve post something, but for the others, where exactly do you look in the bible to see that homosexuality is a sin?
Also, I agree with Chris. When this older generation is gone this won't even be an issue.
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I saw Steve post something, but for the others, where exactly do you look in the bible to see that homosexuality is a sin?
Also, I agree with Chris. When this older generation is gone this won't even be an issue.
I saw Steve post something, but for the others, where exactly do you look in the bible to see that homosexuality is a sin?
Also, I agree with Chris. When this older generation is gone this won't even be an issue.
that was in response to your question. My assertion is the references to homosexuality in the Bible are small and at least somewhat vague. On the other hand references to helping the poor and turning the other cheek are all over the place. So back to my original assumption that people don't like homosexuality because it really really creeps them out.
And I don't see too many guys getting pissed off that we don't do enough for the poor.
WSS
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