Jonathan Paul Manziel
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He actually has a point but yeah fuck Texas.
fuck him. social gossip as in talking on a forum or social media as in JF putting all his escapades on instagram? who orchestrated all that? it sure as hell wasn't anyone on here.
clothes? you're lucky this isn't a uni thread, wait until you see those.
so if some JF fanboy wants to come in here and start throwing names around the only lady i can see in here are the girls that want to jump manziel bone. go right ahead txdawg, come get your bone.
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He actually has a point but yeah fuck Texas.
fuck him. social gossip as in talking on a forum or social media as in JF putting all his escapades on instagram? who orchestrated all that? it sure as hell wasn't anyone on here.
clothes? you're lucky this isn't a uni thread, wait until you see those.
so if some JF fanboy wants to come in here and start throwing names around the only lady i can see in here are the girls that want to jump manziel bone. go right ahead txdawg, come get your bone.
fuck him. social gossip as in talking on a forum or social media as in JF putting all his escapades on instagram? who orchestrated all that? it sure as hell wasn't anyone on here.
clothes? you're lucky this isn't a uni thread, wait until you see those.
so if some JF fanboy wants to come in here and start throwing names around the only lady i can see in here are the girls that want to jump manziel bone. go right ahead txdawg, come get your bone.
Now that's having a point.
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this is an 8-8,9-7 team with Hoyer playing competent. The rest of the pieces are in place (besides WR) and its time to have a consistent qb for a consistent period of time.
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It amazes me how the media can turn so many people against a person . It amazes me even more knowing of the mass number of vaginas that buy into this crap. So he likes to party and take selfies with beiber queen , BIG FUC*NG DEAL.
BEREA, Ohio Cleveland Browns fan Matt LaVelle showed up at the first day of training camp wearing a jersey with "Johnny DawgPound" taped across the back. It was a bit of refashioning he did prior to May's NFL draft in the hope that Johnny Manziel would be Cleveland's pick.
Manziel was on the field here Saturday, creating the expected frenzy, or "buzz," in the parlance of Johnny Football. Yet the more LaVelle and his friend watched the side-by-side drills featuring not just Johnny, but of the zipping, accurate throws of the actual No. 1 quarterback on the depth chart, Brian Hoyer, something kept sinking in.
Yes, he's a Manziel fan
" but I like what I'm seeing out of Hoyer," LaVelle said of the low-key, local veteran (Cleveland St. Ignatius High School). Hoyer is a Michigan State product that spent three years backing up Tom Brady in New England. When he finally got a chance to start last year for the Browns, he looked good in three games before injuring his knee.
"Class act," owner Jimmy Haslam said of Hoyer. "He handles himself extremely well Is there a better story? He's a hometown kid, coming off of an injury."
Well, other than the first day of the rest of Johnny Manziel's life, no, there wasn't a better story.
Manziel faces a steep climb here and that stark reality was evident all over the place. Or at least should be to Manziel, who must prove he can play on the field while also separating himself from a lifestyle that he unapologetically embraces.
His off-field flair is one reason there were plenty of Manziel No. 2 jerseys among the capacity crowd of 4,000 but they, like the team owner who went out on a limb to draft him, will gladly forget their shiny new sensation in exchange for victories, even ones from dull old Brian Hoyer.
That's why there were plenty of "Hoyer, Hoyer" chants as well.
Meanwhile, Haslam didn't sound all that pleased when discussing Manziel's proclivity for partying, recommending that he model himself after LeBron James or Peyton Manning, who either avoid drinking on inflatable swans at nightclubs and holding rolled up $20 bills in Vegas bathrooms, or at least do it away from camera phones.
"The really great athletes make their news on the field, not off the field," Haslam said.
Has that message sunk in yet?
"We'll see," Haslam said.
Manziel addressed Haslam's comments after practice and left lingering doubts. His speech was part concession of some nebulous mistakes, part brag session about how totally awesome his life is, you know being so popular and talented and all.
"Here's the thing I want to say," Manziel said. "The reason I'm popular, the reason people follow me and there's been such a buzz around me, when I went out on Saturdays at Texas A&M, I played with an extreme amount of passion and I played with my heart on my sleeve.
"But more than anything I had fun. I had fun playing this game, I had fun going on out on this field playing football. That's what I live for, that's what I do.
"The same thing off the field," he continued. "Whether I'm going out and playing golf, whether it's going out and having the nightlife, whatever it is, I'm having fun. That's what my life is. And luckily for me I'm living out my dream of playing in the NFL, having a ton of fun.
"My dream come true and I finally got to have some time to have some downtime and to celebrate that with my family and my friends. This is the greatest life I could've ever imagined for me and I'm loving it." "So will I continue to get better being a professional and learn lessons about life?" Manziel asked. "Of course, I'm 21 years old. Age is not an excuse but I need to mature and I've done some immature things. Moving forward I need to mature and get better and handle myself better as a professional Life's fun. Enjoy it while it's here."
Manziel can live his life anyway he chooses but if he thinks life is short and needs to be embraced, he needs to show he understands life in the NFL is even more precious. Players claim NFL means "Not For Long" for a reason.
Coach Mike Pettine said he will name the Browns starter after the second preseason game, which is Aug. 18, or just over three weeks away. Right now Hoyer is getting the reps with the first team. He'll likely get to start the first two preseason games with them too. He wasn't the guy Pettine had to interrupt his vacation to call about the latest social media partying photo.
"I expect to be the starting quarterback," Hoyer said.
In the end, this isn't going to be some grand morality tale about the dutiful worker against the talented party boy. It's quaint but unimportant. In the NFL it's about winning games and nothing else.
Both quarterbacks have their fans here but nothing creates excitement, buzz or even eventual idolatry like winning.
"All that matters is what happens on the field," Hoyer said. "No one is going to cheer for a good guy if they're 4-12."
"It's not just my name and my number on the back," Manziel said of the cheering fans before pointing to the front of his jersey. "It's Cleveland. It's the Browns."
Manziel talked about the urgency of every snap. He talked about buckling down and working. He talked about getting better each and every session, of plowing through the learning curve of a more complex NFL offense.
He also kept talking about how he's living the dream and should embrace it like a typical 21-year-old, except he isn't a typical 21-year-old and, as such, the dream can vanish quickly.
So he better chuck it for the Browns. He better be damn, damn good. The competition is serious and significant and popularity doesn't mean a thing. Fans can always buy a new jersey.
"It's getting real now," Manziel said.
We'll see, the man signing his checks said. We'll see.
@mike-h said:
How are you this bad at life?
Don't you get tired of being wrong?
It amazes me how the media can turn so many people against a person . It amazes me even more knowing of the mass number of vaginas that buy into this crap. So he likes to party and take selfies with beiber queen , BIG FUC*NG DEAL.
It's the difference between being a fan of the Browns and being a fan of a player.
According to one of the Pittsburgh scouts the Steelers (although they won't say it publicly) are expecting Manziel to be under center for the season opener.
Of course he won't say it publically... when you're wrong it's best not to broadcast it.
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@everlastingxxx said:
When i watch video, it looks like Hoyer is quicker planting and throw than Manziel. Even on the WR quick throws he is fast.
Also, It seems like they are becoming friends or at least becoming friendly with each other. Which is good because Hoyer is a pro and can teach Johnny how to be one. Ill be honest, the more i hear Hoyer speak and play the more i like him. I just dont see him as having a big upside.
I won't go gushing about Hoyer- and you're probably right he's not going to get much better. Like I said- insufficient data to properly evaluate.
TXDawg is entitled to his opinion, so he loves JF because he saw him play- in Texas. Same thing here, Cleveland fans love it and pull for the local kid to make good. Sometimes it works out- Bernie Kosar. Sometimes it doesn't- Charlie Frye.
It was truly heartbreaking to see Le Charles Bentley (went to the same High School as Hoyer) blow out his knee and have his career ended the first day of Browns training camp.
Incidentally, Donte Whitner is another Cleveland guy.
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According to one of the Pittsburgh scouts the Steelers (although they won't say it publicly) are expecting Manziel to be under center for the season opener.
That may well be. As a Browns fan, I'm hoping it isn't the case. I have to root for the hometown kid to get a legit shot. JF will have to blow the coaching staff away (or Brian get hurt again) in the preseason and training camp to become the starter. BTW, I didn't notice it, but Tour did- if you watch the side by side training camp footage, Hoyer was indeed unloading the ball significantly faster than Manziel. Plus for kicks and giggles tonight I rewatched the first day of the draft before I deleted it off my DVR. Shit and hells bells, there it was again- what really concerned me about Manziel before we drafted him- some A&M footage where he has guys wide open on their initial routes- didn't see them & then scrambles around like a nut until someone DID break wide open. He's not going to have that luxury in the NFL. Forgot who said it today regarding Johnny. College windows become portholes in the NFL. And regarding his scrambling- in the preseason opener, if he's lucky enough to get some snaps against the Lion's first team defense- I'm sure Suh and Fairley are just dying to meet ya- if you get my drift.
We've said a lot on this board "In ______________ I trust", and been dead wrong. BUT I really believe Pettine is going to put the guy he thinks has the best chance of winning games out there against the Steelers in the opener.
BTW, I didn't notice it, but Tour did- if you watch the side by side training camp footage, Hoyer was indeed unloading the ball significantly faster than Manziel.
Aw shucks tweren't nuttin'...
Finally heard one of the talking heads on NFL Network comment on it today. Of course it had to be Solomon Wilcots...
I've been puzzling over what the observation means. Since I do not believe that Hoyer is quicker than Manziel, I can only conclude that JM is not working as hard and/or taking the drill as seriously.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
nfl network has been really pissing me off lately. on one hand they are quick to tear into manziel after his first press conf. of TC on friday, yet they replayed his interview like 5 times just to have everyone possible chime in either pro or negative.
so taoday they start off with how the QB competition in cleveland is going (3rd day?) and it's all pro hoyer and manziel came out and said some good things on sat. nite etc. etc. then they go to their QB competition footage and up on the big screen behind 2 doofuss analysts/ex-jocks have a pic of hoyer in a throwing pose and manziel in a pose....both wearing number 2. and what they were talking about in a QB competition soon becam a manziel highlight reel with nothing of hoyer.
so they can suck a nut too.
yeah txdawg can have his opinion, i just don't take too kindly to someone calling me a woman, especially from some drag queen butch from the worst state in the union.
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Hoyer will start and rightfully so, let Johnny get a year of NFL learning and playbook under his belt.
If Hoyer flops, you play Johnny.
I just hope when the Bills pick and someone like Winston, Hundley, and Mariota are there and we get a massive amount of picks for them.
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@douche-nozzle said:
Mental instability has no clock. If he is that spoiled and that much of a head case when he is "the show" can you imagine what he will be when he is carrying a clipboard?
Tick....tick....tick
Point was that it's old news... been hashed over here already... so you need fresher troll material.
He actually has a point but yeah fuck Texas.
The hometown boy point is legit, if it's anyone's sole basis for backing Hoyer. Personally I doubt it is. It's more like icing on the cake.
@everlastingxxx said:
When i watch video, it looks like Hoyer is quicker planting and throw than Manziel. Even on the WR quick throws he is fast.
Also, It seems like they are becoming friends or at least becoming friendly with each other. Which is good because Hoyer is a pro and can teach Johnny how to be one. Ill be honest, the more i hear Hoyer speak and play the more i like him. I just dont see him as having a big upside.
You may well be right about the upside... but until JM displays a basic proficiency at the pro level we won't get a chance to see it. Right now competency is the upside.
Agree that Hoyer's example, and friendly-ish approach, should both help JM. While the help may be somewhat limited by the competition, it's a far cry from Favre saying it was not his job to teach Rogers.
I'd be interested in your take as to why do you think Hoyer is quicker in the drill. Is it, as I wrote above, a matter of taking the drill seriously?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@everlastingxxx said:
When i watch video, it looks like Hoyer is quicker planting and throw than Manziel. Even on the WR quick throws he is fast.
Also, It seems like they are becoming friends or at least becoming friendly with each other. Which is good because Hoyer is a pro and can teach Johnny how to be one. Ill be honest, the more i hear Hoyer speak and play the more i like him. I just dont see him as having a big upside.
I won't go gushing about Hoyer- and you're probably right he's not going to get much better. Like I said- insufficient data to properly evaluate.
TXDawg is entitled to his opinion, so he loves JF because he saw him play- in Texas. Same thing here, Cleveland fans love it and pull for the local kid to make good. Sometimes it works out- Bernie Kosar. Sometimes it doesn't- Charlie Frye.
It was truly heartbreaking to see Le Charles Bentley (went to the same High School as Hoyer) blow out his knee and have his career ended the first day of Browns training camp.
Incidentally, Donte Whitner is another Cleveland guy.
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Hopefully Hoyer will win the starting job and the Shits will trade Manziel, or just outright cut him.
At that point, hopefully a real champion like Pittsburgh will pick him up so he can wear out that Cleveland azz twice a year.
But be comforted...you douches know football because you haven't been worth a shit since before a lot of you were born.
Fuck Cleveland.
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Bye asswipe.
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I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that. -
@everlastingxxx said:
I think he is taking seriously. Hoyer has more experience taking the ball under center. More experience doing these type of drills. His internal clock is faster. Sometimes these guys from college have to adjust their internal clock to the speed of the game. I think its more of a compliment to Hoyers veteran experience.
Thanks... appreciate the answer. It could be as simple as drop-back reps. Had not considered that.
Will say that JM's release has impressed me. He comes as close to throwing from his right ear as any QB I've seen in a while and much better than I saw him throw at A&M. Makes for a very quick release...
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I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that.I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that.
Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
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I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that.
Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
And that in turn is also fair enough, but the sample size is so small that almost no conclusions can be made. I've seen TJ Yates look like Kurt Warner for 2 games, its a common phenomenon.
I hope beyond hope Hoyer is the next Kurt Warner but if you're playing the odds...there's been a thousand QBs with similar starts to their career but only one turned into Kurt Warner.
I just question how much Hoyer love around here is really because people think hes a GREAT quarterback and how much is just disguised Manziel dislike.
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i think it depends on where you come from, are you a college football enthusiast and what you feel is appropriate behavior on and off the field from someone that is going to be the leader of your favorite NFL team.
me i was born and raised an hour west of cleveland, so i don't know about the high school football mania that is there in cleveland and it's immediate suburbs. i just know what i grew up on. i never heard of brian hoyer until he joined the browns. after all the mis-steps in drafting QBs and signing old vets to have some guy that was an UDFA look as good as he did last year and play with as much confidence as he did (given VERY small sample size of games) but he cemented in my mind that if he could add one thing to his game, sliding (HA!) he could be a well-rounded starter for the browns.
of course i've heard of manziel. it started last year with the highlights on espn etc. of his games and his talent and ability and then kept going with his antics off the field. would i have rather seen the browns draft a receiver at 22, yep. but they chose to draft manziel. so now he is a cleveland brown, which means he will get my support no matter what and i want him to succeed because if he succeeds, the browns succeed. do i like what he does showing up on social media with all the selfies? hell no. do i like the fact that the browns fan base has been invaded by manziel fans with no regard for the team? no.
BUT like both QBs have said they want what's best for the team. and like the HC said whoever gives the TEAM the best chance to win will start. will it bother me if it's manziel over hoyer? no. vice versa? no.
i'm sure if the guy grew up in sandusky and played for my HS alma mater i'd be pushing harder for that guy. but from a fan who now lives outside of ohio.....just win, baby, win.
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and if hoyer were out making an ass of himself, i'm sure there would be just as much criticism of him as there is manziel. people expect more from professionals. i know it's within manziel's rights to do what he wants in the off-season but wouldn't we all (as browns fans) see him on the path as a well-grounded professional who is not in the paparrazzi flash bulbs every 30 seconds?
you tell me.
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Manziel was a celebrity in college, did you expect that to change? None of this off the field crap means anything, its all media fodder for them to fill in their 24 hour news cycle in June and July when there's NOTHING to talk about in the sports world. Manziels success will come down to his talent and not some Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche selfie. Brian Hoyer COULD do the exact same things as Manziel but nobody would ever know about ot because the national media doesnt care about Hoyer.
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