Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@everlastingxxx said:
I think he is taking seriously. Hoyer has more experience taking the ball under center. More experience doing these type of drills. His internal clock is faster. Sometimes these guys from college have to adjust their internal clock to the speed of the game. I think its more of a compliment to Hoyers veteran experience.
Thanks... appreciate the answer. It could be as simple as drop-back reps. Had not considered that.
Will say that JM's release has impressed me. He comes as close to throwing from his right ear as any QB I've seen in a while and much better than I saw him throw at A&M. Makes for a very quick release...
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I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that.I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that.
Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
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I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that.
Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
And that in turn is also fair enough, but the sample size is so small that almost no conclusions can be made. I've seen TJ Yates look like Kurt Warner for 2 games, its a common phenomenon.
I hope beyond hope Hoyer is the next Kurt Warner but if you're playing the odds...there's been a thousand QBs with similar starts to their career but only one turned into Kurt Warner.
I just question how much Hoyer love around here is really because people think hes a GREAT quarterback and how much is just disguised Manziel dislike.
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i think it depends on where you come from, are you a college football enthusiast and what you feel is appropriate behavior on and off the field from someone that is going to be the leader of your favorite NFL team.
me i was born and raised an hour west of cleveland, so i don't know about the high school football mania that is there in cleveland and it's immediate suburbs. i just know what i grew up on. i never heard of brian hoyer until he joined the browns. after all the mis-steps in drafting QBs and signing old vets to have some guy that was an UDFA look as good as he did last year and play with as much confidence as he did (given VERY small sample size of games) but he cemented in my mind that if he could add one thing to his game, sliding (HA!) he could be a well-rounded starter for the browns.
of course i've heard of manziel. it started last year with the highlights on espn etc. of his games and his talent and ability and then kept going with his antics off the field. would i have rather seen the browns draft a receiver at 22, yep. but they chose to draft manziel. so now he is a cleveland brown, which means he will get my support no matter what and i want him to succeed because if he succeeds, the browns succeed. do i like what he does showing up on social media with all the selfies? hell no. do i like the fact that the browns fan base has been invaded by manziel fans with no regard for the team? no.
BUT like both QBs have said they want what's best for the team. and like the HC said whoever gives the TEAM the best chance to win will start. will it bother me if it's manziel over hoyer? no. vice versa? no.
i'm sure if the guy grew up in sandusky and played for my HS alma mater i'd be pushing harder for that guy. but from a fan who now lives outside of ohio.....just win, baby, win.
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and if hoyer were out making an ass of himself, i'm sure there would be just as much criticism of him as there is manziel. people expect more from professionals. i know it's within manziel's rights to do what he wants in the off-season but wouldn't we all (as browns fans) see him on the path as a well-grounded professional who is not in the paparrazzi flash bulbs every 30 seconds?
you tell me.
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Manziel was a celebrity in college, did you expect that to change? None of this off the field crap means anything, its all media fodder for them to fill in their 24 hour news cycle in June and July when there's NOTHING to talk about in the sports world. Manziels success will come down to his talent and not some Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche selfie. Brian Hoyer COULD do the exact same things as Manziel but nobody would ever know about ot because the national media doesnt care about Hoyer.
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so now we know where you stand.
do you know anything about the browns? or care?
btw, any starting QB for a NFL team is a celebrity. what happens when it's not manziel?
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Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
And that in turn is also fair enough, but the sample size is so small that almost no conclusions can be made. I've seen TJ Yates look like Kurt Warner for 2 games, its a common phenomenon.
I hope beyond hope Hoyer is the next Kurt Warner but if you're playing the odds...there's been a thousand QBs with similar starts to their career but only one turned into Kurt Warner.
I just question how much Hoyer love around here is really because people think hes a GREAT quarterback and how much is just disguised Manziel dislike.
I just question how much Hoyer love around here is really because people think hes a GREAT quarterback and how much is just disguised Manziel dislike.
So you are operating under the impression that people are shy around here? If so, then you have not been lurking for long.
Seriously I have yet to see anyone proclaim that Hoyer is a "great QB". Many, including me, think he showed promise during his all too brief appearance in 2013. Our offense never looked better than it did with him under center.
As for Manziel dislike... I don't know him, therefore I cannot dislike him. What I can do is dislike some of his behaviors. They're not the same thing. Just as mik said above... I did not want to draft him. but he's a Brown now.
I've been on record since the draft as saying our game one starter will be Brian. So far I've seen no reason to change my prediction.
I based my prediction on BH's professionalism vs. JM's immaturity and inexperience. The former is a game manager who has learned to control his competitiveness under fire; the latter... not so much... not yet anyway.
To the extent that this team will win in 2014 it will be through ball control and Defense. And for that you need a game manager.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
so now we know where you stand.
do you know anything about the browns? or care?
btw, any starting QB for a NFL team is a celebrity. what happens when it's not manziel?
so now we know where you stand.
do you know anything about the browns? or care?
btw, any starting QB for a NFL team is a celebrity. what happens when it's not manziel?
Some would say I know a bit, yes. Some would say I am born into caring quite a bit, yes.
Manziels behavior is not unusual, it's just public. People love the guy, he gets ratings, so he's always a hot topic. Mix that into the dead season of sports where ESPN needs content and you have people asking to purchase any picture of Manziel doing anything just so they can talk about it. Good thing about Manziel is you know exactly what he's doing because he can't get away with anything.
Joe Montana had a problem early in his career, he's discussed it. Marino too. What do you think Bernie was like in the 80's (and today). Tom Brady dated a actress with a former drug issue, had a kid with her while dating a Brazilian Supermodel. What do you think Tom Bradys younger days were like? The only difference is they weren't public, they didn't have to deal with instagram or even ESPN creating news.
People who think what Manziel does is somehow way over board are extremely naive. The attention he gets is what is rare and unusual, but that has zero to do with if he's a good quarterback or not.
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I just question how much Hoyer love around here is really because people think hes a GREAT quarterback and how much is just disguised Manziel dislike.
So you are operating under the impression that people are shy around here? If so, then you have not been lurking for long.
Seriously I have yet to see anyone proclaim that Hoyer is a "great QB". Many, including me, think he showed promise during his all too brief appearance in 2013. Our offense never looked better than it did with him under center.
As for Manziel dislike... I don't know him, therefore I cannot dislike him. What I can do is dislike some of his behaviors. They're not the same thing. Just as mik said above... I did not want to draft him. but he's a Brown now.
I've been on record since the draft as saying our game one starter will be Brian. So far I've seen no reason to change my prediction.
I based my prediction on BH's professionalism vs. JM's immaturity and inexperience. The former is a game manager who has learned to control his competitiveness under fire; the latter... not so much... not yet anyway.
To the extent that this team will win in 2014 it will be through ball control and Defense. And for that you need a game manager.
So you are operating under the impression that people are shy around here? If so, then you have not been lurking for long.
Seriously I have yet to see anyone proclaim that Hoyer is a "great QB". Many, including me, think he showed promise during his all to brief appearance in 2013. Our offense never looked better than it did with him under center.
As for Manziel dislike... I don't know him, therefore I cannot dislike him. What I can do is dislike some of his behaviors. They're not the same thing. Just as mik said above... I did not want to draft him. but he's a Brown now.
I've been on record since the draft as saying our game one starter will be Brian. So far I've seen no reason to change my prediction.
I based my prediction on BH's professionalism vs. JM's immaturity and inexperience. The former is a game manager who has learned to control his competitiveness under fire; the latter... not so much... not yet anyway.
To the extent that this team will win in 2014 it will be through ball control and Defense. And for that you need a game manager.
Once again what leads you to believe Hoyer is this sure thing? A great game manager? The guy played two full games last year, one of them he was good, the other he threw 3 interceptions. Neither did he complete a high % of passes. Oh and that makes up 2/3rds of the total games he completed in his entire career.
So once again where does the "Well Hoyer is a sure thing" attitude come from? He looked good last year, in Norv Turners offense, with players that were awesome even without Hoyer in there. So....how are you so positive that Hoyer is any good at all, let alone this expert "Game Manager" that can lead the Browns to a winning record? Theres been zero proof of that. Not only does Hoyer have barely more starting experience than Manziel does, but he's also coming off a torn ACL. Also in a new offense.
Where does this sentiment that Hoyer is this QB master come from?
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so now we know where you stand.
do you know anything about the browns? or care?
btw, any starting QB for a NFL team is a celebrity. what happens when it's not manziel?
Some would say I know a bit, yes. Some would say I am born into caring quite a bit, yes.
Manziels behavior is not unusual, it's just public. People love the guy, he gets ratings, so he's always a hot topic. Mix that into the dead season of sports where ESPN needs content and you have people asking to purchase any picture of Manziel doing anything just so they can talk about it. Good thing about Manziel is you know exactly what he's doing because he can't get away with anything.
Joe Montana had a problem early in his career, he's discussed it. Marino too. What do you think Bernie was like in the 80's (and today). Tom Brady dated a actress with a former drug issue, had a kid with her while dating a Brazilian Supermodel. What do you think Tom Bradys younger days were like? The only difference is they weren't public, they didn't have to deal with instagram or even ESPN creating news.
People who think what Manziel does is somehow way over board are extremely naive. The attention he gets is what is rare and unusual, but that has zero to do with if he's a good quarterback or not.
that has zero to do with if he's a good quarterback or not.
And as of right now, we, ( including all of his man lovers ), have no idea if he's a good NFL qb or not. Also, as of right now, he is a rookie backup with the ego of Joe Namath. Remember, Eric Zeier, Brady Quinn, Tim Couch and Colt McCoy (just to name a few) were also "good quarterbacks" in theory......... Too bad the game is played on a field and not on theory.
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so now we know where you stand.
do you know anything about the browns? or care?
btw, any starting QB for a NFL team is a celebrity. what happens when it's not manziel?
Some would say I know a bit, yes. Some would say I am born into caring quite a bit, yes.
Manziels behavior is not unusual, it's just public. People love the guy, he gets ratings, so he's always a hot topic. Mix that into the dead season of sports where ESPN needs content and you have people asking to purchase any picture of Manziel doing anything just so they can talk about it. Good thing about Manziel is you know exactly what he's doing because he can't get away with anything.
Joe Montana had a problem early in his career, he's discussed it. Marino too. What do you think Bernie was like in the 80's (and today). Tom Brady dated a actress with a former drug issue, had a kid with her while dating a Brazilian Supermodel. What do you think Tom Bradys younger days were like? The only difference is they weren't public, they didn't have to deal with instagram or even ESPN creating news.
People who think what Manziel does is somehow way over board are extremely naive. The attention he gets is what is rare and unusual, but that has zero to do with if he's a good quarterback or not.
The attention he gets is what is rare and unusual, but that has zero to do with if he's a good quarterback or not.
i agree.
but you have to admit 1/2 the attention he gets in social media is self-produced. i don't think a 21 year old going out having a good time is a 'problem'. a 21 year old going out and taking selfies of him and everyone else in the world, then proclaiming i don't know what happened is in your term 'naive'.
as pettine said of players like manziel..... "do you want to be a celebrity that plays football or do you want to be a football player that is a celebrity?"
right now all he has proven is the former.
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So you are operating under the impression that people are shy around here? If so, then you have not been lurking for long.
Seriously I have yet to see anyone proclaim that Hoyer is a "great QB". Many, including me, think he showed promise during his all to brief appearance in 2013. Our offense never looked better than it did with him under center.
As for Manziel dislike... I don't know him, therefore I cannot dislike him. What I can do is dislike some of his behaviors. They're not the same thing. Just as mik said above... I did not want to draft him. but he's a Brown now.
I've been on record since the draft as saying our game one starter will be Brian. So far I've seen no reason to change my prediction.
I based my prediction on BH's professionalism vs. JM's immaturity and inexperience. The former is a game manager who has learned to control his competitiveness under fire; the latter... not so much... not yet anyway.
To the extent that this team will win in 2014 it will be through ball control and Defense. And for that you need a game manager.
Once again what leads you to believe Hoyer is this sure thing? A great game manager? The guy played two full games last year, one of them he was good, the other he threw 3 interceptions. Neither did he complete a high % of passes. Oh and that makes up 2/3rds of the total games he completed in his entire career.
So once again where does the "Well Hoyer is a sure thing" attitude come from? He looked good last year, in Norv Turners offense, with players that were awesome even without Hoyer in there. So....how are you so positive that Hoyer is any good at all, let alone this expert "Game Manager" that can lead the Browns to a winning record? Theres been zero proof of that. Not only does Hoyer have barely more starting experience than Manziel does, but he's also coming off a torn ACL. Also in a new offense.
Where does this sentiment that Hoyer is this QB master come from?
Once again what leads you to believe Hoyer is this sure thing? A great game manager? The guy played two full games last year, one of them he was good, the other he threw 3 interceptions. Neither did he complete a high % of passes. Oh and that makes up 2/3rds of the total games he completed in his entire career.
So once again where does the "Well Hoyer is a sure thing" attitude come from? He looked good last year, in Norv Turners offense, with players that were awesome even without Hoyer in there. So....how are you so positive that Hoyer is any good at all, let alone this expert "Game Manager" that can lead the Browns to a winning record? Theres been zero proof of that. Not only does Hoyer have barely more starting experience than Manziel does, but he's also coming off a torn ACL. Also in a new offense.
Where does this sentiment that Hoyer is this QB master come from?
so instead of just being on even ground and letting the QB competition unfold the way it will you come in here guns blazing because you think the majority of people are favoring hoyer?
well it's obvious that you are favoring manziel.
so? what now?
let me ask you a question. if it was a dead heat today (QB comp) and the majority of people were favoring hoyer....why do you think that might be?
(and it isn't because hoyer is from cleveland, so guess again).
maybe because one was at the facilities as much as possible, going home to his family and being a man while one was acting like an idiot and a spoiled brat.
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that has zero to do with if he's a good quarterback or not.
And as of right now, we, ( including all of his man lovers ), have no idea if he's a good NFL qb or not. Also, as of right now, he is a rookie backup with the ego of Joe Namath. Remember, Eric Zeier, Brady Quinn, Tim Couch and Colt McCoy (just to name a few) were also "good quarterbacks" in theory......... Too bad the game is played on a field and not on theory.
And as of right now, we, ( including all of his man lovers ), have no idea if he's a good NFL qb or not. Also, as of right now, he is a rookie backup with the ego of Joe Namath. Remember, Eric Zeier, Brady Quinn, Tim Couch and Colt McCoy (just to name a few) were also "good quarterbacks" in theory......... Too bad the game is played on a field and not on theory.
Zeier, Quinn, Couch and McCoy are all quarterbacks that had a decent couple of games and then the Browns fans declared them the one. Just like Hoyer.
And you're right Manziel hasn't done anything on the NFL field yet, so I can't say he's good, yet somehow plenty around here have somehow already determined he is not very good even though he's yet to play in the NFL.
I don't care about the selfies. Why do I care. What difference does it make? He has an instigram account just like 95% of all 21 year old Americans do. He puts pictures of his life on it, just like them. Its what young people do.
Nothing Manziel has done since being drafted is ANY different than what he did his 3 years at TAMU, and it didn't seem to be a problem for him there as he tore apart the SEC.
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alright.
put him on the list of the JF fan boys.
stand in line stockton. there are plenty in front of you waiting for johnnies jock to drop.
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Once again what leads you to believe Hoyer is this sure thing? A great game manager? The guy played two full games last year, one of them he was good, the other he threw 3 interceptions. Neither did he complete a high % of passes. Oh and that makes up 2/3rds of the total games he completed in his entire career.
So once again where does the "Well Hoyer is a sure thing" attitude come from? He looked good last year, in Norv Turners offense, with players that were awesome even without Hoyer in there. So....how are you so positive that Hoyer is any good at all, let alone this expert "Game Manager" that can lead the Browns to a winning record? Theres been zero proof of that. Not only does Hoyer have barely more starting experience than Manziel does, but he's also coming off a torn ACL. Also in a new offense.
Where does this sentiment that Hoyer is this QB master come from?
so instead of just being on even ground and letting the QB competition unfold the way it will you come in here guns blazing because you think the majority of people are favoring hoyer?
well it's obvious that you are favoring manziel.
so? what now?
let me ask you a question. if it was a dead heat today (QB comp) and the majority of people were favoring hoyer....why do you think that might be?
(and it isn't because hoyer is from cleveland, so guess again).
maybe because one was at the facilities as much as possible, going home to his family and being a man while one was acting like an idiot and a spoiled brat.
so instead of just being on even ground and letting the QB competition unfold the way it will you come in here guns blazing because you think the majority of people are favoring hoyer?
well it's obvious that you are favoring manziel.
so? what now?
let me ask you a question. if it was a dead heat today (QB comp) and the majority of people were favoring hoyer....why do you think that might be?
(and it isn't because hoyer is from cleveland, so guess again).
maybe because one was at the facilities as much as possible, going home to his family and being a man while one was acting like an idiot and a spoiled brat.
Pretty sure Brandon Weeden was a choir boy family man too, doesn't seem to guarantee success.
You don't like Manziel as a person. That's the problem, so just say that, and let it be. That I understand.
However Manziel might be really really good. We don't know yet. And Hoyer might be really really bad. We don't know that yet either. But you seem to have locked in your answer on both.
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And as of right now, we, ( including all of his man lovers ), have no idea if he's a good NFL qb or not. Also, as of right now, he is a rookie backup with the ego of Joe Namath. Remember, Eric Zeier, Brady Quinn, Tim Couch and Colt McCoy (just to name a few) were also "good quarterbacks" in theory......... Too bad the game is played on a field and not on theory.
Zeier, Quinn, Couch and McCoy are all quarterbacks that had a decent couple of games and then the Browns fans declared them the one. Just like Hoyer.
And you're right Manziel hasn't done anything on the NFL field yet, so I can't say he's good, yet somehow plenty around here have somehow already determined he is not very good even though he's yet to play in the NFL.
I don't care about the selfies. Why do I care. What difference does it make? He has an instigram account just like 95% of all 21 year old Americans do. He puts pictures of his life on it, just like them. Its what young people do.
Nothing Manziel has done since being drafted is ANY different than what he did his 3 years at TAMU, and it didn't seem to be a problem for him there as he tore apart the SEC.
yet somehow plenty around here have somehow already determined he is not very good even though he's yet to play in the NFL.
I haven't read a single post along the lines of "Johhny sucks as a QB, and we wasted a pick"...... Not one. However, I have read more than I care to remember posts along the lines of "I love Johnny, and he will be the Browns best QB ever and will walk down the streets while people say there goes a HoFer". If you can prove me wrong on that statement, I look forward to you showing me.
BTW, GO BROWNS!!
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alright.
put him on the list of the JF fan boys.
stand in line stockton. there are plenty in front of you waiting for johnnies jock to drop.
alright.
put him on the list of the JF fan boys.
stand in line stockton. there are plenty in front of you waiting for johnnies jock to drop.
Anyone who likes Manziel is now marginalized to be some sort of "fan boy" or nitwit cliche tagline.
Manziel is the reason we are finally getting National Attention and leading the NFL in jersey sales.
Here's the deal, if Johnny Flops we will all look like assholes and rightfully so.
If he turns heads, all the haters are going to look like dickless lunatics when they come crawling back on their knees
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yet somehow plenty around here have somehow already determined he is not very good even though he's yet to play in the NFL.
I haven't read a single post along the lines of "Johhny sucks as a QB, and we wasted a pick"...... Not one. However, I have read more than I care to remember posts along the lines of "I love Johnny, and he will be the Browns best QB ever and will walk down the streets while people say there goes a HoFer". If you can prove me wrong on that statement, I look forward to you showing me.
BTW, GO BROWNS!!
I haven't read a single post along the lines of "Johhny sucks as a QB, and we wasted a pick"...... Not one. However, I have read more than I care to remember posts along the lines of "I love Johnny, and he will be the Browns best QB ever and will walk down the streets while people say there goes a HoFer". If you can prove me wrong on that statement, I look forward to you showing me.
BTW, GO BROWNS!!
I dunno seems to be plenty on here that are pretty positive that Manziel is a bust....
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