Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Once again everyone is getting WAYYYY to heated up over this.
I get the sense there are a fair amount of people who didn't want Manziel, watched the draft with pro-Manziel buddies and instead of admitting defeat are now doubling down with "Well he's going to be a bust" and "He's an embarrassment to the franchise because of his selfies" so they don't have to be "wrong" about the draft.
The point is this, with Manziel you might have a bad player, its possible, we will see. But you also have what the Browns haven't had in such a long time which is the potential for a superstar. And I'm not just talking about star, I'm saying HOF superstar. The potential is there. He did things in the SEC that are extremely rare, and he made plays that none of us have seen before.
Now will that translate to the NFL, we will see, but the chance is there. There is a chance we have the future biggest star in the NFL on our roster. Brett Favre-ish.Now with Hoyer we have a guy who played well for roughly 1 and half games in his career. Now I don't think Hoyer sucks, but I'm not seeing any potential for star here. I do think he could be an 8-8 QB. I don't think he's very accurate, and I do think a torn ACL doesn't help. Neither does Norv Turner moving on.
I have a hard time thinking that this emphatic Hoyer dedication from some fans would be the same if it was Teddy Twatwater that we drafted. I feel like there would a bit more excitement about the rookie. Which makes me think you just don't like Manziel. Which is fine, but don't disguise it as some kind of football conversation where you go "Oh well Hoyer has proven that he is a great game manager". No. Hoyer is nearly as raw as Manziel on the field. Just say "I don't like Johnny Manziel because I think he's a douchebag" and leave it at that. That I understand. So be it, and it's honest and it's fair.
Pretending that the reasons you dislike Manziel or are rooting for Hoyer are based on what has taken place on the football field is absurd. I've seen far more impressive things from Manziel, albeit in college in the SEC, than I saw out of Hoyer against the Vikings and Bengals.
And let's be real here, you know this isn't a real competition right? Manziel is going to play, eventually, when he's ready. He's not competing against Hoyer, he's competing against what the coaches think is "Ready". Once he hits that point, Manziel is the guy. Nobody actually thinks that we're going to go into 2015 with Hoyer still starting do they? 2016? I mean how much longer do you really think Hoyer has? This is already over, it just a matter of WHEN, not if.
The ceiling is so much higher for Manziel so so so so much higher. The floor is about the same for both of these players. How can that not be recognized?with "Well he's going to be a bust"
dude, point to one post in this thread that says that about manziel. just one.
i'll wait.
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@mike-h said:
Mike, always enjoyed talking with you. It's the ignorant people who post in high volume and are unwilling to even accept listening to others' opinions (the first and only social requirement to begin a conversation, the purpose of an internet forum) who have ruined it here. And all three happen to be old, so I use that. There are plenty of older people I've learned quite a bit from, in their case it's what not to become.
Enjoy this place if you do, I don't anymore, peace
Who are these "old" guys? It seems to me that your biggest arguments have been with "young" guys, like TCPO...who I think is still in his 20s.
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@douche-nozzle said:
I'm sorry, you talking to someone else about ego is like Ted Kennedy lecturing someone on ethics!
So, I take it then that you have no ego.....that you consider yourself just a feckless, weak minded jellyfish.
OK, noted.
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If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick. Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term? -
Yup, hasn't played a down yet. Time to move on.
It seems like JM realizes he actually has to work for it. You know, like how he had to at A&M his freshman year, something you Texas fags have been preaching since we drafted him.
So what do you Texas douche bags want? For him to anointed the once and future king or for him to actually earn his way?
Jesus weren't you the one bitching about Brown's fans acting like women? Unbelievable.
Let's not compare shaming arguments and hyperbolic tone to an observation of leadership. Ok, Susan?
Damn, you're right, I guess I am getting down to the thread level.
Having to work for it? I can only guess you guys see this as your hs two-a-days. I don't even know what this means at the nfl level. Is there supposed to be some 80's music montage?
He's not missing workouts or practices so yea, he's working. But for what? You said he has to work for it.
The starting job? Ok.
I guess that makes hoyer a terrible worker.
Let's not compare shaming arguments and hyperbolic tone to an observation of leadership. Ok, Susan?
Damn, you're right, I guess I am getting down to the thread level.
Having to work for it? I can only guess you guys see this as your hs two-a-days. I don't even know what this means at the nfl level. Is there supposed to be some 80's music montage?
He's not missing workouts or practices so yea, he's working. But for what? You said he has to work for it.
The starting job? Ok.
I guess that makes hoyer a terrible worker.
Reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours is it?
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If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick. Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term?If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick. Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term?
dude just go away.
you still haven't found someone calling manziel a bust on here?
isn't that your whole argument?
we get it YOU thinkall browns' fans should be lining up to anoint manziel as the second coming of unitas or whoever it is you hold in high esteem but the kid has to earn it. is that too much to ask? i mean right now he's getting beat out in TC by the dude you continue to diss.
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So you are operating under the impression that people are shy around here? If so, then you have not been lurking for long.
Seriously I have yet to see anyone proclaim that Hoyer is a "great QB". Many, including me, think he showed promise during his all to brief appearance in 2013. Our offense never looked better than it did with him under center.
As for Manziel dislike... I don't know him, therefore I cannot dislike him. What I can do is dislike some of his behaviors. They're not the same thing. Just as mik said above... I did not want to draft him. but he's a Brown now.
I've been on record since the draft as saying our game one starter will be Brian. So far I've seen no reason to change my prediction.
I based my prediction on BH's professionalism vs. JM's immaturity and inexperience. The former is a game manager who has learned to control his competitiveness under fire; the latter... not so much... not yet anyway.
To the extent that this team will win in 2014 it will be through ball control and Defense. And for that you need a game manager.
Once again what leads you to believe Hoyer is this sure thing? A great game manager? The guy played two full games last year, one of them he was good, the other he threw 3 interceptions. Neither did he complete a high % of passes. Oh and that makes up 2/3rds of the total games he completed in his entire career.
So once again where does the "Well Hoyer is a sure thing" attitude come from? He looked good last year, in Norv Turners offense, with players that were awesome even without Hoyer in there. So....how are you so positive that Hoyer is any good at all, let alone this expert "Game Manager" that can lead the Browns to a winning record? Theres been zero proof of that. Not only does Hoyer have barely more starting experience than Manziel does, but he's also coming off a torn ACL. Also in a new offense.
Where does this sentiment that Hoyer is this QB master come from?
Once again what leads you to believe Hoyer is this sure thing? A great game manager?
So once again where does the "Well Hoyer is a sure thing" attitude come from?
Where does this sentiment that Hoyer is this QB master come from?
Somehow if I think Manziel is fine and people need to back up that I am not a Browns fan who doesn't want the team to win?
So why are so many so certain with him? Can't be anything on the field.
You are reading things not written. It cannot be a comprehension issue as you write too well.
How many Browns games did you watch in 2013? Are you just looking at stats?
Had to go point by point for the following post...
Once again everyone is getting WAYYYY to heated up over this.
Well... the last couple paragraphs in this post ought to simmer things down... lol...
I get the sense there are a fair amount of people who didn't want Manziel, watched the draft with pro-Manziel buddies and instead of admitting defeat are now doubling down with "Well he's going to be a bust" and "He's an embarrassment to the franchise because of his selfies" so they don't have to be "wrong" about the draft.
No wonder Mike H sees a kindred spirit in you. But so far I do not... simply because you are willing to put the effort into forming a thought and posting it.
I made my points about you reading in things above, so I intended to mention it again. However, the fact that you have to invent draft day scenarios to even begin to understand JM skepticism does reinforce my point.
BTW, Mike H's definition of being right about us drafting JM is based upon his proclamations that: 1. "We should trade up to take him #1 overall." and 2. "If he's still there at #4, then we will take him there." On Draft Day 1 Mike was nowhere to be seen until pick #22 was announced.
The point is this, with Manziel you might have a bad player, its possible, we will see. But you also have what the Browns haven't had in such a long time which is the potential for a superstar. And I'm not just talking about star, I'm saying HOF superstar. The potential is there. He did things in the SEC that are extremely rare, and he made plays that none of us have seen before.
I get the sense that you really do not believe JM has any chance to be a bad player. Like you I could be reading in things not written, but...
Now will that translate to the NFL, we will see, but the chance is there. There is a chance we have the future biggest star in the NFL on our roster. Brett Favre-ish.
JM has Brett's ultra-competitive, gunslinger mentality. The problem is he does not have Brett's arm. IMO the best comparison is Michael Vick. Details in link...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28451&view=findpost&p=404221
Now with Hoyer we have a guy who played well for roughly 1 and half games in his career. Now I don't think Hoyer sucks, but I'm not seeing any potential for star here. I do think he could be an 8-8 QB. I don't think he's very accurate, and I do think a torn ACL doesn't help. Neither does Norv Turner moving on.
And again, with the team I see being built we simply need a solid QB that will first do not harm.
I have a hard time thinking that this emphatic Hoyer dedication from some fans would be the same if it was Teddy Twatwater that we drafted. I feel like there would a bit more excitement about the rookie. Which makes me think you just don't like Manziel. Which is fine, but don't disguise it as some kind of football conversation where you go "Oh well Hoyer has proven that he is a great game manager". No. Hoyer is nearly as raw as Manziel on the field. Just say "I don't like Johnny Manziel because I think he's a douchebag" and leave it at that. That I understand. So be it, and it's honest and it's fair.
Once again, reading things not written. As for Teddy B...
1. Of the 3 top QB prospects in the draft, he was the one I like less that JM.
2. A month before we had to trade up to #1 overall to ensure getting JM, Mike H said we had to trade up to #1 overall to ensure getting Teddy B.
Pretending that the reasons you dislike Manziel or are rooting for Hoyer are based on what has taken place on the football field is absurd. I've seen far more impressive things from Manziel, albeit in college in the SEC, than I saw out of Hoyer against the Vikings and Bengals.
Except of course that Hoyer did what he did against NFL defenses.
The football field is exactly where I formed my views that JM was not a QB I would draft. In him I saw an undisciplined, undersized player whose game would not translate to the NFL. I saw a style and a persona that would not flourish in the NFL and would possibly not survive it.
And let's be real here, you know this isn't a real competition right? Manziel is going to play, eventually, when he's ready. He's not competing against Hoyer, he's competing against what the coaches think is "Ready". Once he hits that point, Manziel is the guy. Nobody actually thinks that we're going to go into 2015 with Hoyer still starting do they? 2016? I mean how much longer do you really think Hoyer has? This is already over, it just a matter of WHEN, not if.
It is a competition in the here and now. Once the winner of that competition starts Game 1, it becomes his job to lose. Route one to keeping the job is winning, but because the Browns are still a work in progress, the starting QB can keep his job if he does not materially contribute to a loss. If the losses mount, yes, then a QB change to "spark" the team will be made to the #2, whether or not the #2 is ready. Then it becomes his job to lose...
The ceiling is so much higher for Manziel so so so so much higher. The floor is about the same for both of these players. How can that not be recognized?
Sorry, but IMO the floors are not equal. Now and for the better part of, if not all of, 2014 JM has the higher probability of losing us more games through his rookie mistakes, than Hoyer does.
Bottom line... we're all posting opinions. Que sera sera...
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If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick. Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term?If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
Actually, I think that is a lot of what is going around here as well.
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick.
The last two QBs we took at #22 were wasted picks: Quinn/Weeden. A lot of people thought that in lieu of Quinn, DA was the future.
I mean, that is where a lot of this comes from: history.
Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
See my answer above.....we are gun shy, really.
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term?
We don't know if Hoyer is on a par with Henne/Cassell......some think he is on a par with Kurt Warner/Rich Gannon/Brad Johnson
I don't know the truth, so I don't discount any possibility.
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@mike-h said:
It's the ignorant people who post in high volume and are unwilling to even accept listening to others' opinions (the first and only social requirement to begin a conversation, the purpose of an internet forum) who have ruined it here.
LMAO!! Yup, you must have come up with this while looking in the mirror........
I don't know what's worse, your arrogance, or your lack of awareness that you're arrogant. Well, I guess there is a worse option, your arrogance coupled with the fact that you are in fact aware and just don't give a crap.
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Where does this idea that Hoyer is a game manager and Manziel is a reckless QB come from?
Hoyer has a completion % of under 60% (bad) and in one of his two full games last year he had 3 INTs.
NOTHING he has ever done has shown him to be a great game "manager" He's played pretty much like a guy who is a backup QB.
Manziel was 3rd in the Nation in QB rating. 5th in completion %. In the SEC. Thats pretty good.
You can talk over and over about what Hoyer is and what Manziel is, but it's not based on anything you've seen on the field.
The idea Hoyer could be Kurt Warner, or even Rich Gannon is INSANE. He has yet to do a single thing that would draw that conclusion. Why because teams have cut him and he looked good against the Bengals? I mean honestly people do you have any clue how crazy that is to see two games from Hoyer last year and draw the conclusion of Kurt Warner? Only because he made the offense look good instead of the dog crap it looked like under Weeden (Who may I add Hoyer couldn't beat out during last preseason).
I don't know if Manziel is going to be Great, Good, or bad, but he has a skillset that could be very good and has performed at an elite level against the best the college level has to offer, SEC.
However I promise you, no matter how much you want to wish it, that Hoyer is not going to end up Kurt Warner.
People talk about all the Manziel "anus sniffing" there is just because people are excited about him....I would say the Hoyer dick sucking around here is something WAYYYY beyond any Manziel love.
People are taking a career backup, who was cut by the Cardinals, couldn't beat out Weeden last year, and played TWO FULL GAMES last year at a decent level before tearing his ACL...the next Kurt Warner? Thats is hyperbole that exceeds anything you could possibly find on this website written about Manziel. -
Yep, you're right. Johnny is the greatest QB ever. He will win 21 SB's and they will rename the HoF after him. He's really kool, and likes to have fun..... Oh yea, he's really handsome too.
There, you feel better?
Yep, you're right. Johnny is the greatest QB ever. He will win 21 SB's and they will rename the HoF after him. He's really kool, and likes to have fun..... Oh yea, he's really handsome too.
There, you feel better?
This is pretty sad to see some how some of you are.
I remember the days when it was all in. Albert Belle was an asshole, but he was CLEVELANDs asshole. People stuck by their players.
Looks like those days are long gone. Oh and in the meantime you're calling yourself "real fans" by rooting AGAINST our first round draft pick, mocking him, before he even takes a snap in the NFL.
What a disgrace.
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Yep, you're right. Johnny is the greatest QB ever. He will win 21 SB's and they will rename the HoF after him. He's really kool, and likes to have fun..... Oh yea, he's really handsome too.
There, you feel better?
This is pretty sad to see some how some of you are.
I remember the days when it was all in. Albert Belle was an asshole, but he was CLEVELANDs asshole. People stuck by their players.
Looks like those days are long gone. Oh and in the meantime you're calling yourself "real fans" by rooting AGAINST our first round draft pick, mocking him, before he even takes a snap in the NFL.
What a disgrace.
This is pretty sad to see some how some of you are.
I remember the days when it was all in. Albert Belle was an asshole, but he was CLEVELANDs asshole. People stuck by their players.
Looks like those days are long gone. Oh and in the meantime you're calling yourself "real fans" by rooting AGAINST our first round draft pick, mocking him, before he even takes a snap in the NFL.
What a disgrace.
'OUR"?
GTFO.
you are as much of a browns fan as i am a TAMU fan. (nice analogy huh?).
what is your game? to beat us down with your diatribe on had bad hoyer is and how good manziel is? what is your payoff? do you really think you are going to sway anyone's opinon?
i know exactly what it is. YOU fear a true QB competition. YOU do care who is the starting QB. YOU will not be happy unless it is manziel.
this brian hoyer guy who blows and only has two games under his belt as a NFL starter is making manziel look like a rookie from a division 3 school and you can't handle it.
you are the disgrace. people have tried to have legit conversations with you but you don't want to hear their points. you just keep talking over the fact that hoyer is looking better than manziel right now. will that change? maybe. will i care? no. will you? yep.
that's what makes YOU the disgrace.
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This is pretty sad to see some how some of you are.
I remember the days when it was all in. Albert Belle was an asshole, but he was CLEVELANDs asshole. People stuck by their players.
Looks like those days are long gone. Oh and in the meantime you're calling yourself "real fans" by rooting AGAINST our first round draft pick, mocking him, before he even takes a snap in the NFL.
What a disgrace.
'OUR"?
GTFO.
you are as much of a browns fan as i am a TAMU fan. (nice analogy huh?).
what is your game? to beat us down with your diatribe on had bad hoyer is and how good manziel is? what is your payoff? do you really think you are going to sway anyone's opinon?
i know exactly what it is. YOU fear a true QB competition. YOU do care who is the starting QB. YOU will not be happy unless it is manziel.
this brian hoyer guy who blows and only has two games under his belt as a NFL starter is making manziel look like a rookie from a division 3 school and you can't handle it.
you are the disgrace. people have tried to have legit conversations with you but you don't want to hear their points. you just keep talking over the fact that hoyer is looking better than manziel right now. will that change? maybe. will i care? no. will you? yep.
that's what makes YOU the disgrace.
'OUR"?
GTFO.
you are as much of a browns fan as i am a TAMU fan. (nice analogy huh?).
what is your game? to beat us down with your diatribe on had bad hoyer is and how good manziel is? what is your payoff? do you really think you are going to sway anyone's opinon?
i know exactly what it is. YOU fear a true QB competition. YOU do care who is the starting QB. YOU will not be happy unless it is manziel.
this brian hoyer guy who blows and only has two games under his belt as a NFL starter is making manziel look like a rookie from a division 3 school and you can't handle it.
Right because I don't think Hoyer is Kurt Warner, AND I'm smart enough to realize that Manziel was drafted at 22 to become the starting QB of the Browns at some point and I can recognize that he was pretty good in the SEC, now I can't be a Browns fan. Makes sense.
Do you think the Browns took Manziel because they thought Hoyer was the answer? Do you suspect they think Hoyer is the next Kurt Warner?
At what point did reason go out the window with some of you? When did you lose the ability to use logic and evaluate the situation? Where is the objectivity?
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no one thinks that manziel won't be the starting QB at some point. if you really read these posts from the majority of fans on here, most say he will start at some point this year.
i mean it's not like we're oblivious to reality. hell manziel might even beat out hoyer to become the starter day 1.
the difference between someone like you and myself is i think manziel should have to earn the starting spot, not have it handed to him.
as a TRUE browns fan i root for everyone on the roster. if we drafted the kid i want them to succeed. like i said before, if they succeed the browns succeed.
you should lay off hoyer already and let things play out. no one is stopping the progress of manziel except himself at this point. if he is as good as you and half of america thinks he should have no problem beating out a scrub like hoyer.
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ok, updated for you guys. (I didn't actually change it)
When you going to figure out college stats mean jack shit in the NFL? Doubtless Matt Leinart and Erik Crouch's college stats were damn impressive too. I'm not saying Manziel won't turn out to be the real deal- just that it isn't a stone cold certainty that he will.
@mike-h said:
Youre right, I stopped actually contributing here awhile ago. I've admitted that.
It's easy to take that defensive stance, when the overwhelming majority of your regular posters are bitter old dudes.
I've said repeatedly I like both Hoyer and Manziel, but am not a cynical old wind bag who looks to tear down players on the football team I follow to meet my own sad, pathetic ego.
It's apparent you support people like this, especially Hoorta, who is biased and a moderator. You could learn a thing or two from the other place, and I'm biting my tongue saying that because even though we disagree over there, there's real actual football discussion, and not the same people controlling the discussion with irrelevant shit.
Cheers, Z, I'll miss ya.
Biased? Or having an opinion different than yours? And I'm certainly not bitter- cynical maybe, after seeing the Browns uninterrupted suckage for a couple of decades. Yup, 95% of the posters who don't agree with you are just "dumb". Like Tour (who has a better memory that me) pointed out- you blew your draft prognostication big time. OTOH my fave (Watkins) got drafted exactly where I said he would be- just not by the Browns. Yeah, I don't know shit about football compared to you Mike. FACT: I didn't like the Manziel pick- and I'm not going to apologize over it, but he's part of the Browns now. BTW, I was far from alone in that stance. Did I like his recent off field Facebook, Instagram stuff? Hell no, but Haslam & Farmer didn't either. Maybe you can't comprehend that I can pull for a player on the field, and not care about his lifestyle choices off it very much. If I was biased and bitter as a Mod, you really think I wouldn't have told the legion of Texas Johnny lovers to go get lost & start their own forum?
If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick. Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term?
Like I said Hoyer is a Cleveland guy- that's why he's getting the love. Trust me if he was from California or Florida, it would be a lot different. You're reading into it if you think I, or anyone else is certain Hoyer is the long term answer. We'd probably like him to play the first three games, give Johnny a chance to sit and learn, and see how that turns out. If he sucks, bring on Manziel. As Gip said, there were no tears shed when Frye and Quinn got sent packing.
Yes, Manziel was drafted at #22 to be the starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. So were Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden. There's the difference- the guys who saw Johnny play in college think he's a can't miss HOFer. I said once as an Ohio State fan, I thought that about Dan Wilkinson. None of us are saying we don't think Manziel can't be very good, (or great)- eventually. It's just we happen to think the utter impossibility he might bust can't be ruled out.
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You can say all you want that College success doesn't guarantee NFL success, and you're correct.
However it is a pretty good indicator. If you're a great player in college you have a much better chance at being a good NFL player than a player who wasn't great in college.
You're treating it like it's a crap shoot. It's not a crap shoot. Those players drafted in the 1st round, were picked because they were great in college. Now some will not live up to it in the NFL, but they're far more likely to become Pro Bowl players than 5th round picks and there's a reason for that. -
check please!
obtuse is too soft a word for what you are.
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If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick. Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term?@mike-h said:
It's the ignorant people who post in high volume and are unwilling to even accept listening to others' opinions...
Child, please... something about a pot and kettle comes to mind.
Problem is those of us of a certain age are mature and secure enough to understand that opinions can be heard yet still not accepted. Someday perhaps you will understand that as well. But right now you are in the midst of some self-important, "my-shit-don't-stink" phase that precludes that possibility.
Gotta go point by point again...
If you go to Vikings boards and Jaguars boards you do not see anybody who is saying "Well I think Chad Henne should be the future, Bortles might be a bust" or "Matt Cassell is our guy, sure he's been cut a few times, but I like what I saw". Nope. None. You won't even see any "Henne vs Bortles" threads or likewise for the Vikings.
So your point is that those other forums are completely devoid of objectivity? Of Henne/Bortles and Cassel/Bridgewater which two would you say give their team the best chance to wi opening day??
Those fan bases are very excited for their Rookies, its all about "Should Teddy start game 1 or do you want him to sit and get comfortable until mid season?"
And some here are excited about JM and want him to sit and get comfortable... be it for 3, 8 or 16 games. I do not see you point here.
Yet on here with some of you it is if Brian Hoyer is the future and Manziel is a wasted pick. Someone is going to have to explain to me why we don't have the same understanding that these QBs were drafted to be the future, and why there is not the excitement about Manziel on here as there is in Minnesota and Jacksonville?
So you are seeking nothing less then unanimity. One mind... one thought... no dissention.
We, even the dissenters, are well aware of the fact that 1st round picks are expected to be the future. That with the singular exception of QB, 1st rounders are expected to start Season 1, Game 1.
Why is it that Hoyer, on par with Henne and Cassell, is considered by some to be the QB that the Browns need and some would prefer him than Manziel long term?
Again... Who has said "prefer BH long-term"? If someone has, then I missed it.
I do not accept that BH is on par with Henne and Cassel. Henne's 6-year, 50-start career has conclusively earned him his journeyman status. Cassel on the other hand has shown that he has the ability to lead the right team and be a solid starter in the NFL. What works against him now is his age, now 32. He is a placeholder on his way to journeyman.
In the short-term... all I can say is that having seen the spark Hoyer provided in 2013, reinforced by the professionalism and leadership he has displayed from the start of OTAs, I like the chances that he can be our immediate future. Once his resume grows, we shall see how long immediate lasts.
Que sera sera...
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Manziel has enough people in the media attacking him, you'd think he'd get a break from the Browns fans at least.
But nope. Don't want to support the future QB of the Browns. Well why not? Oh because he takes selfies and parties in Vegas.
Sounds fair. What fantastic fans to play for.
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