Josh Gordon Troubles

[slowburn]

GuNNerGatSKy said:

For probably the very first time I am actually agreeing with PO here.

I was mildly critical of JG before knowing the juicy details. Being a recovering opiate/ dope fiend myself, I fully grasp the helplessness a real addict struggles with when it comes to using illegal substances, and that includes pot.

there is a direct link between hard core Browns fans and substance abuse/. i'd bet 33% of Browns Board users are degenerates

Yes weed is not considered to be "truely" physically addicting, but as someone whose addiction began with weed and alcohol in middle school, I can one hundred and ten percent vouch for marijuanas addictive potential. When pot was my drug of choice, I could care less about anything other than smoking buds as often as I could.

But the more details I hear, the more I'm seeing Josh as a simple young, dumb bonehead who enjoys smoking weed and partying (which nowadays is the rule, not the exception with my generation). He appears to have given a whole hearted effort to avoid failing another test after reaching stage 3, being that he pass 70 freak in screens! Now whether the second hand smoke portion of the story is true or he simply fucked up and hit a blunt/joint/bowl/bong/hookah is whole other issue.

the "baby boomers' set the standards for hard core drug/alcohol usage. being a late boomer myself i suspect the average user today would have a hard time keeping up with the old heads

With the facts Being what we know at this moment, I CANNOT see how Goddell could morally and legitimately suspend Gordon at all. The margins of error on these screens are to my knowledge within the level at which his sample A registered. But as others have said, Goodell is Goodell and he will do whatever the fuck he so chooses.

But I respect and agree with you hear PO. Being that we now know what amounts to the true story surrounding this potential suspension, how could you possibly ruthlessly slam Gordon as we have prior to the this leak? Your a Fucking brainless, blustering sea urchin if you do.

Yes he needs to grow the fuck up. He needs a real role model to take him under their wing. We have heard from players that he is very quiet in the locker room and around the team. As someone with some deep seated demon from the past can attest, the best thing for myself and possibly for Gordon would be for others to interact with him and show that they truely give a shit. The kid probably has lived through some shit that the majority of you probably could not comprehend one bit (and again, speaking from personal, painful experience here). Instead of beating him down over and over again, we should as fans show him that our hand is out for him and that we care. That doesn't excuse any of his behavior, but he is a mother fucking human being for God's sake.

Gunner

[hoorta]

@why said:

I like this comment from the article

"He should have just punched the drug tester unconscious, then he would be able to play this season."

If that story is true . . . Damn it's dumb

Dude's had some bad luck barely fails the test, barely fails breathalyzer. Maybe he's actually not the hopeless druggie we all thought he was. Still keep some better company man.

That was a great comment- then he would only have gotten two games.

Zombo said:

So Josh passed 69 of 70 tests, and was a cunt hair over on one other, but if they used the other sample he would have been under, in what amounts to second hand smoke.

Then he drove a car with a drop or two too much vodka in his system.

I think the screams for his scalp by fellow Browns fans was premature.

I hope he beats this and then beats the Ravens Week three so bad that Ray Rice wishes he was still in that elevator getting beat up by his fiance.

Zombo

Yeah- now that the actual level is out read below.

@jafbf said:

Yeah, first sample was over the extremely low standard of 15ng by 1ng (as in 1 nano gram), and the second was under.

Also saw that the Lawyers are looking into the testing machine's calibration . . . the error factor alone in this has got to throw this out.

But with the NFL (Goodell) you never know what you're going to get.

For those of you that aren't into the metric system a nanogram is one billionth of a gram. That's almost down to counting individual atoms.

I got out my calculator to scale up what 15 ng\ml works out to. If you threw a quart of water (or booze) into 16 million gallons of water (24 Olympic sized swimming pools). That's what you'd be looking for. I'd say there's some margin for error. I worked in a hospital lab for years- and for sure I'd give a reading in the nanogram range a 10% + - margin of error. 15-1.5= pass.

[USFBrown]

Its not hard. Stay away from weed and from people who smoke it and get paid millions of dollars for playing a kids game.

[WalterWhite]

Josh better have access to the best attorneys money can buy so he can play this year and we can make him and Cameron lifers

[gftChris]

@walterwhite said:

Josh better have access to the best attorneys money can buy so he can play this year and we can make him and Cameron lifers

He has some high profile lawyer from the NFLPA, and the guy that got Sherman off his 4-game PED suspension.

I think he gets away quite lightly with this, if the NFL is reasonable.

[miktoxic]

the NFL is under soooo much scrutiny right now that they could go either way.

everyone is screaming that they let rice off WAAAAAAAAY too EASY, from the female fans, to morning national news......the NFL has been getting bashed BIG TIME. so they could use this case to say SEE, WE DO MEAN BIZ and suspend him for the year w/o even a whisper from the kid's lawyers. BUT THEN they not only risk the weed vs. domestic violence debate from everyone from keith olberman to bill o'reilly, besides the HUGE amount of backlash from the browns fans across the globe.

this decision, along with IRSAY's (which i've stated many times before is the real leverage gordon has here) is going to be HUGE. all other suspensions before this will seem irrelevant. this is going to stick in people's craw for years to come.

goodell better think really hard because the wrong decision and his popularity plummets through the floors of NFL hdqtrs.

[thenew23]

@slowburn said:

thenew23..are you a probation officer?

Addiction counselor. I am a member of the local Drug Court team, and have had many clients involved with probation... as you could probably imagine

[Tour2ma]

@harry-buffalo said:

Fact of the matter is that he needs to keep better company.

Once your "old friends" behaviors start costing you money you have incentive for a new set of friends.

@jafbf said:

I'd say the answer to that is his Lawyers

I'd say I overlooked the obvious...

[miktoxic]

@thenew23 said:

Addiction counselor. I am a member of the local Drug Court team, and have had many clients involved with probation... as you could probably imagine

i know it's off topic, but what in is the biggest prob in ohio right now as far as drugs and their addiction?.......

the prescription pain medication i.e. oxycodone etc.? just had a big write up in our westchester news about the growing heroin problem. guess it's cheaper than crack now.

[Tour2ma]

@sisky-fringo said:

Per rules of the league's substance-abuse policy, the "B" bottle doesn't need to show a violation, only that the substance found in the other bottle is evident to the "limits of detection."

Makes me curious as to what the detection limit is. Could be low single digits.

Also of interest from a test protocol standpoint would be the limit of quantification which can be much higher than the detection limit.

@thenew23 said:

Second, you cannot get THC in your system by making out with someone who smoked.

To me, this is a full-year ban OR nothing type of ruling. Any other ruling would be non-sensical... but it's the NFL so I'm sure they'll come up with something dumb...

Thank you and agree... I fear Goodell is going to do something completely illogical...

[sisky fringo]

he definitely has a stronger case than when we heard his plane was late and he simply missed it by no-show.

this is one of those times when i hope they are sympathetic to his cause and aren't irritated by his continued violations, regardless of thresholds or what fans might find trivial.

to the fans, the impact an emotionally influenced or heavy-handed decision bringing a long suspension would have, would no doubt be absolutely devastating. he is a main offensive cog and as the #1 WR--and largest offensive threat on the field by both production and simply occupying DB's attention--it goes far beyond inconvenience bordering crippling the entire season.

i don't know what the minimum is in stage three--i think a year--but he's already in that stage so it's not like he can expect to get stage 2 penalties like a 4 game suspension.

i agree with others, it should either be all or nothing. i think sherman had no priors influencing his 2 game penalty, so no reason to expect something that light. not to forget, he also won. im leaning year.

BUT. if he were only gone...

nevermind. screw it.

why even speculate. he coulda easily been here all 16--which is definitely not happening now--and we wouldn't even be having this conversation on like page frickin 19...

can u imagine how good we'd be feeling rt now if this never happened? not if bottles "A" and "B" were swapped. if it never happened AT ALL. that .500+ season fantasy could be happening right now. without him and no receiver help? 4-12/5-11??

so the next time anyone is mad at the press for dragging him through the gutters or fans upset by this, don't forget to give Josh his share of the responsibility.

how would you feel if you had made a rash bet for $1K earlier this year w ur shit-talking Pukeburg loving father-in-law that Josh was going to have another 1000+ yard season? uhhhh yeah. i didn't, but my friend did.

still all warm and fuzzy? im thinking not. i bet pretty sick. even if the suspension was only half a season/8 games...still no chance. but oh well at least it's not me. it's only my fucking season that i've waited like 10 months for...

on the flip-side, would i pay 1K rt now today if it somehow guaranteed the Browns in the playoffs? in a second. and i bet nearly every Browns fan w a savings acct would too...if it were legal that is. like if all that was stopping our kids from doing big things was having the right coach would we shell out to Boosters?? hell yeah we would. whatever it took. we pay just ridiculous amounts to helplessly watch, if financial contribution somehow improved our ability to win?? i think we'd ALL chip in something. so i look at it like that. he lost a grand on a stupid bet. we lost a good chance at something worth way more than 1K to me. way more.

selfish.

clam-baking.

dick.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@miktoxic said:

i know it's off topic, but what in is the biggest prob in ohio right now as far as drugs and their addiction?.......

the prescription pain medication i.e. oxycodone etc.? just had a big write up in our westchester news about the growing heroin problem. guess it's cheaper than crack now.

In Cleveland area Heroin seems to be a major problem, with a lot of OD's from it.

[Kosar_For_President]

And lastly, Gordon's attorneys also will point out that with their client being subject to over 70 drug tests, there was only one time since his rookie year that a test came back positive for marijuana, and even then, the "A" and "B" samples did not match.

[Kosar_For_President]

A comment from a lab tech.

I think GORDON WILL WIN HIS APPEAL.... this is why-- Gordon's drug test was a SPLIT test. This means that the urine was collected into one cup and then poured off into 2 separate vials. This is done for the donor's protection in case they want to call for a re-test. "Bottle A" was tested and came back above cut-off. At that point, I'm sure the results were protested, so they went ahead and processed "Bottle B" and saw that it was below cut-off. Drug testing in the workplace and Department Of Transportation (DOT drug testing, which is the highest regulated in our nation) says that if Bottle B comes back below the cutoff, then the sample is deemed NEGATIVE even if the first bottle (Bottle A) was positive.

For this reason, I believe Gordon will win his appeal. It wasn't because the 2 bottles had 2 different levels as stated in the article. In fact, the article makes it sound like the reason that was even brought up was to say that something was tampered with and bottles were switched around. Fact is, a sample done on a split collection can definitely show 2 different readings. I confirmed this with my lab manager who has been in the forensic drug testing field for 20+ years.

[The Gipper]

The more interesting thing is that the "level" at which a failed test is set is that 15 nanogram level.

Where by comparison an Air Traffic Controller would have to have a 50 ng level to fail a piss test.

Now, last time I looked, Air Traffic Controller have the lives of thousands of people daily in their hands. Why would their level be so much higher than that of an entertainer? A guy who provides fun for us to watch compared to people that protect our lives?

Absurd.

Perhaps even more absurd is that Olympic Athletes must have like a 175 ng level to be considered a failed test.

Now.....why was the level for NFL players set at such a lower level than for other athletes and people with lives in their hands.

[StocktonShorts]

WADA is 150ng for a fail.

Anything in sports that are below what the World Anti Doping Agency sets for a pass/fail is ridiculous. NFLs level for a fail is 10 times below WADA. That has to change.

[The Gipper]

@stocktonshorts said:

WADA is 150ng for a fail.

Anything in sports that are below what the World Anti Doping Agency sets for a pass/fail is ridiculous. NFLs level for a fail is 10 times below WADA. That has to change.

Agreed. And I suggest it certainly will under the next collective bargaining agreement.....not that it does Gordon any good now.

[StocktonShorts]

Now is it to be understood that Gordons suspension will be entire year or nothing? No 8 game possibility? The way I've read in some articles they indicate that if the NFL sticks to the A sample results than it's an automatic 1 year suspension and there room for negotiation. However if they deem the sample isn't conclusive then it has to be zero games because then he has not failed a test.

Is that everyone else's understanding as well?

[miktoxic]

if it's strictly by the book......he's gone for the year. if the NFL decides to hear the 'second-hand smoke' argument and they weigh in the fact that both that test and his DUI BAC level were barely over the limit then they might be a tad more lenient as in 8 games.

if they rock gordon and let off irsay with a slap on the wrist, considering what the public outcry has been about the lack of punishment to ray rice........all hell will break loose up in this joint.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@miktoxic said:

if it's strictly by the book......he's gone for the year. if the NFL decides to hear the 'second-hand smoke' argument and they weigh in the fact that both that test and his DUI BAC level were barely over the limit then they might be a tad more lenient as in 8 games.

if they rock gordon and let off irsay with a slap on the wrist, considering what the public outcry has been about the lack of punishment to ray rice........all hell will break loose up in this joint.

Cleveland could end up like this maybe?