Josh Gordon Troubles
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I'd be interested to know what directly smoking weed registers as? My understanding is if you smoke roughly 30 days before taking a test (presumably a test with a stronger threshold than 15ng) you'd probably fail the test.
If I'm not mistaken a poppy seed bagel will cause you to fail a stronger test than the one the NFL has, so how far back would he have to have smoked for the lever to only be 16ng?
Seems like theres a lot of holes in this testing process.I'd be interested to know what directly smoking weed registers as? My understanding is if you smoke roughly 30 days before taking a test (presumably a test with a stronger threshold than 15ng) you'd probably fail the test.
If I'm not mistaken a poppy seed bagel will cause you to fail a stronger test than the one the NFL has, so how far back would he have to have smoked for the lever to only be 16ng?
Seems like theres a lot of holes in this testing process.
Typically 250+ if a person used in the last 24 hours. 500+ if a person is a chronic user or used a large amount. In my professional opinion, a test at 16 is either "trace" amounts from a person who hasnt used since 30+ days ago, or second hand smoke inhaled within the past 24 hours.
The levels are never exact science because all individuals bodies are different.
As far as poppy seeds, yes they would produce a positive test... for opiates... not thc... Gotta get your drugs straight...
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The more interesting thing is that the "level" at which a failed test is set is that 15 nanogram level.
Where by comparison an Air Traffic Controller would have to have a 50 ng level to fail a piss test.
Now, last time I looked, Air Traffic Controller have the lives of thousands of people daily in their hands. Why would their level be so much higher than that of an entertainer? A guy who provides fun for us to watch compared to people that protect our lives?
Absurd.
Perhaps even more absurd is that Olympic Athletes must have like a 175 ng level to be considered a failed test.
Now.....why was the level for NFL players set at such a lower level than for other athletes and people with lives in their hands.
Now.....why was the level for NFL players set at such a lower level than for other athletes and people with lives in their hands.
NFLPA contract language re abused drugs toxicology included aggressive limits suggesting the league has at last become more proactive in their "war on drugs"
It may be they have decided to reform a policy component that effectively gave players significant notification of pending tests allowing them to study and get smart before the big
day, and, took away any privacy the players had enjoyed befpre to tamper with their samples.
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A comment from a lab tech.
I think GORDON WILL WIN HIS APPEAL.... this is why-- Gordon's drug test was a SPLIT test. This means that the urine was collected into one cup and then poured off into 2 separate vials. This is done for the donor's protection in case they want to call for a re-test. "Bottle A" was tested and came back above cut-off. At that point, I'm sure the results were protested, so they went ahead and processed "Bottle B" and saw that it was below cut-off. Drug testing in the workplace and Department Of Transportation (DOT drug testing, which is the highest regulated in our nation) says that if Bottle B comes back below the cutoff, then the sample is deemed NEGATIVE even if the first bottle (Bottle A) was positive.
For this reason, I believe Gordon will win his appeal. It wasn't because the 2 bottles had 2 different levels as stated in the article. In fact, the article makes it sound like the reason that was even brought up was to say that something was tampered with and bottles were switched around. Fact is, a sample done on a split collection can definitely show 2 different readings. I confirmed this with my lab manager who has been in the forensic drug testing field for 20+ years.A comment from a lab tech.
I think GORDON WILL WIN HIS APPEAL.... this is why-- Gordon's drug test was a SPLIT test. This means that the urine was collected into one cup and then poured off into 2 separate vials. This is done for the donor's protection in case they want to call for a re-test. "Bottle A" was tested and came back above cut-off. At that point, I'm sure the results were protested, so they went ahead and processed "Bottle B" and saw that it was below cut-off. Drug testing in the workplace and Department Of Transportation (DOT drug testing, which is the highest regulated in our nation) says that if Bottle B comes back below the cutoff, then the sample is deemed NEGATIVE even if the first bottle (Bottle A) was positive.
For this reason, I believe Gordon will win his appeal. It wasn't because the 2 bottles had 2 different levels as stated in the article. In fact, the article makes it sound like the reason that was even brought up was to say that something was tampered with and bottles were switched around. Fact is, a sample done on a split collection can definitely show 2 different readings. I confirmed this with my lab manager who has been in the forensic drug testing field for 20+ years.
I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
Typically 250+ if a person used in the last 24 hours. 500+ if a person is a chronic user or used a large amount. In my professional opinion, a test at 16 is either "trace" amounts from a person who hasnt used since 30+ days ago, or second hand smoke inhaled within the past 24 hours.
The levels are never exact science because all individuals bodies are different.
As far as poppy seeds, yes they would produce a positive test... for opiates... not thc... Gotta get your drugs straight...
Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case.
Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/30/gordons-appeal-is-indeed-all-or-nothing/
Turns out it is all or nothing.
No reduction possible according to whoever PFT talked to.
16 games or Zero games, and the NFL already said Gordon will be held accountable for what is in his body. From that the tea leaves don't look great. -
Can we start a poll on how many days Gordon will get? I'm not a lawyer but the NFL has a weak position in this case. The strike two was questionable given his prescription for cough syrup. Now, strike 3 with a sample that is marginally above at best? I'm going to say 6-8 games at most, and only because of his continued behavior.
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Not so fast there, diehard. Marijuana is an effective pain reliever without the physical addiction component of opioid pain relievers. I think the league would be remiss if they didn't evaluate the substantial research available on the effectivenss of pot as an analgesic. Already there are effective marijuana creams that help with pain without the user getting "high"
as well, the feds are rattling their sabers as they consider whether to come after the league for questionable control and custody issues involving opioids and player injury treatment.
http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/news/20100830/marijuana-relieves-chronic-pain-research-show
I hope you have more "substantial research." I read that article and a study with only 21 paricipants with no significant statistical outcomes is not exactly a convincing way to try and change how we treat pain.
I know marijuana has some benefits but the long-term side efffects are still just as bad, if not worse, than other medications, particularly for athletes.
1. It 110 percent treats pain. It's unarguable.I hope you have more "substantial research." I read that article and a study with only 21 paricipants with no significant statistical outcomes is not exactly a convincing way to try and change how we treat pain.
I know marijuana has some benefits but the long-term side efffects are still just as bad, if not worse, than other medications, particularly for athletes.
2. Long term side effects? Unless you are smoking massive amounts of marijuana what side effects exactly do you believe exist? If you vape it you aren't even getting the smoke.
3. Beyond the already widely established medicinal uses tied to pain and nausea. Its been shown to help with the slowing of cognitive deterioration and in a few scientifically founded clinical trials slow the metastasis of some aggressive cancers or stop it all together.
Once the fda takes it off schedule one the legalization lobby will have the funding and the fire power to really study and test its uses and effectiveness for all kinds of ailments. I've read and heard people trying to debunk it for its cancer kill properties but never for pain. You yourself may want to do a little more research.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
A comment from a lab tech.
I think GORDON WILL WIN HIS APPEAL.... this is why-- Gordon's drug test was a SPLIT test. This means that the urine was collected into one cup and then poured off into 2 separate vials. This is done for the donor's protection in case they want to call for a re-test. "Bottle A" was tested and came back above cut-off. At that point, I'm sure the results were protested, so they went ahead and processed "Bottle B" and saw that it was below cut-off. Drug testing in the workplace and Department Of Transportation (DOT drug testing, which is the highest regulated in our nation) says that if Bottle B comes back below the cutoff, then the sample is deemed NEGATIVE even if the first bottle (Bottle A) was positive.
For this reason, I believe Gordon will win his appeal. It wasn't because the 2 bottles had 2 different levels as stated in the article. In fact, the article makes it sound like the reason that was even brought up was to say that something was tampered with and bottles were switched around. Fact is, a sample done on a split collection can definitely show 2 different readings. I confirmed this with my lab manager who has been in the forensic drug testing field for 20+ years.
I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
Typically 250+ if a person used in the last 24 hours. 500+ if a person is a chronic user or used a large amount. In my professional opinion, a test at 16 is either "trace" amounts from a person who hasnt used since 30+ days ago, or second hand smoke inhaled within the past 24 hours.
The levels are never exact science because all individuals bodies are different.
As far as poppy seeds, yes they would produce a positive test... for opiates... not thc... Gotta get your drugs straight...
Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case.
Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm.
I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case.
Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm.
If this were Gordons first offense there would be a sh.it storm. Its his what 4th now? Obviously that's a pattern and with 4 "minor" violations the hammer is going to come down. Especially when you consider he was already in hot water and he got flagged again. If I knew I was under a microscope there is absolutely no way I'd even be around people smoking it. I wouldn't be in the same room, hell I wouldnt be in the same building. Its that level of both arrogance and ignorance that is going to get Gordon suspended for 16.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
i know it's off topic, but what in is the biggest prob in ohio right now as far as drugs and their addiction?.......
the prescription pain medication i.e. oxycodone etc.? just had a big write up in our westchester news about the growing heroin problem. guess it's cheaper than crack now.
Before 2010, Ohio had the worst prescribing habits in the entire country with regards to opioids. We had a HUGE oxycodone problem which resulted in tons of deaths and addiction-related issues.
In 2010, new legislation was passed that placed harsh restrictions on prescribers and the drug Oxycontin was reformulated to prevent abuse via IV. Those things, combined with cheaper price and availability of heroin have led to a state-wide heroin epidemic.
In 2013, you were at higher risk for a drug overdose if you lived in a "rural" county. Heroin is not only the biggest problem, but it is no longer an inner-city problem, it is a problem for everybody. Research predicts that before the end of 2014, all Ohioans will personally know somebody with a heroin-related problem.
Before 2010, Ohio had the worst prescribing habits in the entire country with regards to opioids. We had a HUGE oxycodone problem which resulted in tons of deaths and addiction-related issues.
In 2010, new legislation was passed that placed harsh restrictions on prescribers and the drug Oxycontin was reformulated to prevent abuse via IV. Those things, combined with cheaper price and availability of heroin have led to a state-wide heroin epidemic.
In 2013, you were at higher risk for a drug overdose if you lived in a "rural" county. Heroin is not only the biggest problem, but it is no longer an inner-city problem, it is a problem for everybody. Research predicts that before the end of 2014, all Ohioans will personally know somebody with a heroin-related problem.
Haven't you seen "Justified"? It seems that it is a much bigger problem in rural areas than in cities.
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I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case.
Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm.
If this were Gordons first offense there would be a sh.it storm. Its his what 4th now? Obviously that's a pattern and with 4 "minor" violations the hammer is going to come down. Especially when you consider he was already in hot water and he got flagged again. If I knew I was under a microscope there is absolutely no way I'd even be around people smoking it. I wouldn't be in the same room, hell I wouldnt be in the same building. Its that level of both arrogance and ignorance that is going to get Gordon suspended for 16.
If this were Gordons first offense there would be a sh.it storm. Its his what 4th now? Obviously that's a pattern and with 4 "minor" violations the hammer is going to come down. Especially when you consider he was already in hot water and he got flagged again. If I knew I was under a microscope there is absolutely no way I'd even be around people smoking it. I wouldn't be in the same room, hell I wouldnt be in the same building. Its that level of both arrogance and ignorance that is going to get Gordon suspended for 16.
Well, I believe that there is a possibility that he may be "let off" on the drug charge, but suspended for the OVI.
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1. It 110 percent treats pain. It's unarguable.I hope you have more "substantial research." I read that article and a study with only 21 paricipants with no significant statistical outcomes is not exactly a convincing way to try and change how we treat pain.
I know marijuana has some benefits but the long-term side efffects are still just as bad, if not worse, than other medications, particularly for athletes.
2. Long term side effects? Unless you are smoking massive amounts of marijuana what side effects exactly do you believe exist? If you vape it you aren't even getting the smoke.
3. Beyond the already widely established medicinal uses tied to pain and nausea. Its been shown to help with the slowing of cognitive deterioration and in a few scientifically founded clinical trials slow the metastasis of some aggressive cancers or stop it all together.
Once the fda takes it off schedule one the legalization lobby will have the funding and the fire power to really study and test its uses and effectiveness for all kinds of ailments. I've read and heard people trying to debunk it for its cancer kill properties but never for pain. You yourself may want to do a little more research.
You yourself may want to do a little more research.
Lol... u use marijuana? ... enough said
#Justsayin' -
God damn, I can't wait, I want to know now! It's like Christmas, in some warped dimension, where you get to find out how shitty your present is going to be.
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A comment from a lab tech.
I think GORDON WILL WIN HIS APPEAL.... this is why-- Gordon's drug test was a SPLIT test. This means that the urine was collected into one cup and then poured off into 2 separate vials. This is done for the donor's protection in case they want to call for a re-test. "Bottle A" was tested and came back above cut-off. At that point, I'm sure the results were protested, so they went ahead and processed "Bottle B" and saw that it was below cut-off. Drug testing in the workplace and Department Of Transportation (DOT drug testing, which is the highest regulated in our nation) says that if Bottle B comes back below the cutoff, then the sample is deemed NEGATIVE even if the first bottle (Bottle A) was positive.
For this reason, I believe Gordon will win his appeal. It wasn't because the 2 bottles had 2 different levels as stated in the article. In fact, the article makes it sound like the reason that was even brought up was to say that something was tampered with and bottles were switched around. Fact is, a sample done on a split collection can definitely show 2 different readings. I confirmed this with my lab manager who has been in the forensic drug testing field for 20+ years.
I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
Typically 250+ if a person used in the last 24 hours. 500+ if a person is a chronic user or used a large amount. In my professional opinion, a test at 16 is either "trace" amounts from a person who hasnt used since 30+ days ago, or second hand smoke inhaled within the past 24 hours.
The levels are never exact science because all individuals bodies are different.
As far as poppy seeds, yes they would produce a positive test... for opiates... not thc... Gotta get your drugs straight...
Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case.
Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm.
I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case.
Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm.
If I'm not mistaken cold medicine that has pseudoephedrine in it could come up positive for speed. They new that back in the 80's.
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Marijuana is harmless. If you mis-use anything, it can be dangerous. If you drink too much water you can die.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Marijuana is harmless. If you mis-use anything, it can be dangerous. If you drink too much water you can die.
Doesn't appear so:
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.โ - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Before 2010, Ohio had the worst prescribing habits in the entire country with regards to opioids. We had a HUGE oxycodone problem which resulted in tons of deaths and addiction-related issues.
In 2010, new legislation was passed that placed harsh restrictions on prescribers and the drug Oxycontin was reformulated to prevent abuse via IV. Those things, combined with cheaper price and availability of heroin have led to a state-wide heroin epidemic.
In 2013, you were at higher risk for a drug overdose if you lived in a "rural" county. Heroin is not only the biggest problem, but it is no longer an inner-city problem, it is a problem for everybody. Research predicts that before the end of 2014, all Ohioans will personally know somebody with a heroin-related problem.
Haven't you seen "Justified"? It seems that it is a much bigger problem in rural areas than in cities.
Haven't you seen "Justified"? It seems that it is a much bigger problem in rural areas than in cities.
Great show.
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Okay, here's a puzzler, or a possible indication of the outcome :
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter ยท 2h Updating earlier post: Roger Goodell will be in Canton, Ohio on Fri. and now will meet with Browns WR Josh Gordon at sometime in next week.If I'm Gordon, and I get suspended tomorrow, WTF would I bother meeting with Goodell next week?
I'm torn on this one.
I'm starting to think Gordon is gone (even though he shouldn't be from the results), but this indicates he may not be.
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Has anyone heard an update about this being moved? Mary Kay has been all over the place on Twitter (not surprised) and there's no real good information I can see. It sounds like the appeal is being moved but idk.
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Tony Grossi's been moving it around as well. Last I heard, from Schefter was that hearing is still tomorrow.
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A comment from a lab tech.
I think GORDON WILL WIN HIS APPEAL.... this is why-- Gordon's drug test was a SPLIT test. This means that the urine was collected into one cup and then poured off into 2 separate vials. This is done for the donor's protection in case they want to call for a re-test. "Bottle A" was tested and came back above cut-off. At that point, I'm sure the results were protested, so they went ahead and processed "Bottle B" and saw that it was below cut-off. Drug testing in the workplace and Department Of Transportation (DOT drug testing, which is the highest regulated in our nation) says that if Bottle B comes back below the cutoff, then the sample is deemed NEGATIVE even if the first bottle (Bottle A) was positive.
For this reason, I believe Gordon will win his appeal. It wasn't because the 2 bottles had 2 different levels as stated in the article. In fact, the article makes it sound like the reason that was even brought up was to say that something was tampered with and bottles were switched around. Fact is, a sample done on a split collection can definitely show 2 different readings. I confirmed this with my lab manager who has been in the forensic drug testing field for 20+ years.
I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
Typically 250+ if a person used in the last 24 hours. 500+ if a person is a chronic user or used a large amount. In my professional opinion, a test at 16 is either "trace" amounts from a person who hasnt used since 30+ days ago, or second hand smoke inhaled within the past 24 hours.
The levels are never exact science because all individuals bodies are different.
As far as poppy seeds, yes they would produce a positive test... for opiates... not thc... Gotta get your drugs straight...
Hmmm, if Josh was tooling around in his car with his pals and they were toking up a storm for an hour- I can certainly buy his second hand smoke argument. He needs to stay away- far away from those guys. I think having passed 50+ tests, and voluntarily checking into rehab will help his case.
Plus if they give Gordon a year for a level that truck drivers, airline pilots, and Olympic athletes would pass- and Ray Rice gets two games for cold-cocking his fiancee, there's going to be a shit storm.
I've been a Medical Technologist for a long time- I've never done Forensic Toxicology, but I know plenty about the instrumentation used in it. His lawyers should be asking what's the accuracy and reproducibility at those levels? If it was the same sample and was split- they should be damn close- not almost 2 ng different. To my mind- that's enough to toss the case out.
i know from experience those products that hold everything inside the body so you can temporarily pass the test can attribute to that. it's understood you are supposed to drink tons of water, as much as possible. risk of dilution through over-hydration is more favorable than the alternative>>a small and heavily colored sample. a long duration is ideal--as is a light (but not clear-ish) looking sample--and you always capture the sample from somewhere in the middle of the stream. never the first of ur piss and never the last either. either of the latter can fail you...as can a small sample or even piss you've been holding for a long time. it's kind of a science on both sides it really.
without revealing tmi i know someone who isn't me (swim) who passed a ton of UAs over the years using the "mid stream" method. a TON. like close to 50. swim says they don't see the nanogram reading but it's gotta be very very trace amount and they had always smoked sometime somewhat fairly recently prior. they have also passed one doing nothing at all extra regarding water flush or chemicals or anything only a week after engaging in somewhat light smoking. but then again they were thin and toned and younger and really active and everyone is different. or not and maybe they just got it like that.
oh, point being that if someone is using one of those products, depending on the amount they had just recently drank and have available to piss out even across a few ounces the results can vary wildly. a small sample or one taken from "beginning" or "end" piss could account for the discrepancy between bottles if it wasn't well mixed or whatever. im curious if thc is heavier or lighter than urine for it to separate and float or sink or anything like that.
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well i see it reported that goodell is going to take care of aldon smith next week on the 8th,
smith got a dui within a mile of a grade school, got caught at an airport with a loaded weapon leading to 3 felony gun charges and making a fake bomb thread (which i thought would be a federal charge). if smith gets less than gordon, there'll be a flippin riot.
gordon's case won't be heard by goodell as he will be in canton. i really hope it's not the scrub that was on the air last week trying to justify the league's punishment to ray rice. he got hammered and i'm sure he's looking to come off as a hard ass now. if it's him gordon is gone.
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