Chris Steuber on Curry
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AWESOME post, JD. Great insight throughout.
I like your English idea, if both Crabtree and Curry are gone. I honestly don't see anything wrong with taking the guy you really think will be the best player, regardless of where the "experts" rank the prospects. Finding the best player is, after all, the point, no?
Let's remember the famous Reggie Bush v. Mario Williams debate. The media "experts" were uniformly WRONG and Charlie Casserly was RIGHT. He took the BEST FOOTBALL PLAYER, not the most exciting flavor of the month.
Let's keep it simple: the point of the draft is to pick the best players, regardless of their rank or position.
If our worst case happens, then we need to take the guy WE need, rankings be damned.
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I asked Draft Countdown's Scott Wright what he thought the chances were that the Chiefs would take Curry. Here's his response:
I think there is a very good chance the Chiefs will take Aaron Curry at #3. He is a safe choice, he is a legit Top 5 value and he addresses one of their most glaring needs. I really think it will be Curry for Kansas City but the wild card is how the new front office and coaching regime feels about Tyler Thigpen. If they don't like him they have to take a quarterback, whether it be Stafford or Sanchez.
As someone said here about a month ago, "The key to Curry is the Chiefs going quarterback."
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Today, Mayock predicted the top three picks will be Georgia QB Matthew Stafford (Lions), Jason Smith (Rams) and Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry (Chiefs). So that would leave the Seahawks with Crabtree or one of the other top-rated tackles – if that's the direction they decide to go.
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I don't believe KC takes another LB with their #1 pick. They desparately need OL and QB more then LB. They could even trade down a few spots, which Pioli (under Belichick) liked to do, because there will be interest to move up to get Crabtree. KC has more needs then us so a trade down just might be in the cards for them.
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I think Curry is going to be a Chief. They drafted their LT last year, and 3's too high to take a RT.
Maybe they go QB, but I don't know if they'd be willing to invest in either of the top two guys.
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I think Curry is going to be a Chief. They drafted their LT last year, and 3's too high to take a RT.
Maybe they go QB, but I don't know if they'd be willing to invest in either of the top two guys.
Aloysius said:
I think Curry is going to be a Chief. They drafted their LT last year, and 3's too high to take a RT.Maybe they go QB, but I don't know if they'd be willing to invest in either of the top two guys.
I say QB is a must...if they do not take a chance on Sanchez...Josh Freeman might be a candidate...He's from there and grew up as a Chiefs fan...blah blah.... Assuming Stafford goes to Detroit....which is a good possibilty
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I think Curry is going to be a Chief. They drafted their LT last year, and 3's too high to take a RT.
Maybe they go QB, but I don't know if they'd be willing to invest in either of the top two guys.
Aloysius said:
I think Curry is going to be a Chief. They drafted their LT last year, and 3's too high to take a RT.Maybe they go QB, but I don't know if they'd be willing to invest in either of the top two guys.
what would you want to see us do with the fifth, then? i'm especially interested to hear who you'd want if we can't trade out.
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Assuming it goes like Mayock has it, I'd take Orakpo. He's not as refined a pass-rusher as Brown, but he'll hold up better against the run.
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Though I have to say, JD, your trade way down & take English idea is very appealing. You already have Mel Kiper on your side:
Kiper has the Browns taking Wake Forest outside linebacker Aaron Curry with the fifth pick, but when he was asked to name the top pass-rushing linebacker in the draft, he did not name Curry.
"The best pass rushers are Larry English from Northern Illinois and Clay Matthews from USC," Kiper said. "They need to get more heat on the quarterback.
"Some of these outside linebackers are going to go later in the first round. They (the Browns) could drop from five into the 20s. I had Clay Matthews out of the first round, barely, but I think he could go 22 to 32. If you get into the 20s, you're guaranteed a pretty good outside linebacker."
The model would be what Baltimore did last year, trading down from 8 to 26. When they did that, they ended up acquiring two additional 3rd Round picks and a 4th Rounder. We may be able to get something similar, though Crabtree being off the board and the cost of the #5 contract would be working against us.
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Though I have to say, JD, your trade way down & take English idea is very appealing. You already have Mel Kiper on your side:
Kiper has the Browns taking Wake Forest outside linebacker Aaron Curry with the fifth pick, but when he was asked to name the top pass-rushing linebacker in the draft, he did not name Curry.
"The best pass rushers are Larry English from Northern Illinois and Clay Matthews from USC," Kiper said. "They need to get more heat on the quarterback.
"Some of these outside linebackers are going to go later in the first round. They (the Browns) could drop from five into the 20s. I had Clay Matthews out of the first round, barely, but I think he could go 22 to 32. If you get into the 20s, you're guaranteed a pretty good outside linebacker."
The model would be what Baltimore did last year, trading down from 8 to 26. When they did that, they ended up acquiring two additional 3rd Round picks and a 4th Rounder. We may be able to get something similar, though Crabtree being off the board and the cost of the #5 contract would be working against us.
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Aloysius said:
"The best pass rushers are Larry English from Northern Illinois and Clay Matthews from USC," Kiper said. "They need to get more heat on the quarterback."I think this may be because Kiper has Brown, Orakpo and Maybin listed/pegged as DE...
mz. said:
I think this may be because Kiper has Brown, Orakpo and Maybin listed/pegged as DE...Could be. It's a little frustrating trying to figure out what Kiper & Mayock actually said in these conference calls. Most of the journalists participating in them are just now starting to read up on the draft prospects, so they're prone to making mistakes and not understanding what the draft guru actually said.
But Mayock just moved English ahead of Everette Brown on his OLB rankings. That says something.
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mz. said:
I think this may be because Kiper has Brown, Orakpo and Maybin listed/pegged as DE...Could be. It's a little frustrating trying to figure out what Kiper & Mayock actually said in these conference calls. Most of the journalists participating in them are just now starting to read up on the draft prospects, so they're prone to making mistakes and not understanding what the draft guru actually said.
But Mayock just moved English ahead of Everette Brown on his OLB rankings. That says something.
With everyone being a hybrid something-or-other these days, and with teams employing 3-4 and 4-3 base defenses, it doesn't even make much sense to even classify a guy as anything but a "front seven defender."
Aloysius said:
But Mayock just moved English ahead of Everette Brown on his OLB rankings. That says something.It tells me one thing: we sure as shit ain't taking Brown #5.
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if we can't get curry, i'd vastly prefer to get into the mid-twenties, pick up at least two picks and get english, which got me wondering how we'd be able to pull off such an awesome feat, and then it hit me: raji. he's someone we've been ignoring that people would likely be willing to trade up for, especially since he looks like he'll be entirely dominant.
it's also very possible that the bengals could take him at six if they look to shore up their defense, which means that we can sell the fifth pick as someone's last chance to get him. the bengals currently have three defensive tackles on their roster, and none was drafted higher than the third. plus, with the addition of a player like keith rivers to their LB corps, there should be pressure within the organization to get someone in front of him so he's free to live up to his potential. otherwise, we can sell green bay as the team that will take him at nine, which is even more likely because they switched to the 3-4 this offseason.
therefore, here's the list of teams that we can auction the fifth to based on raji:
denver, 12 - also switched to the 3-4 and needs a NT
tampa bay, 19 - a massive tackle like raji would really open thing up for jovan haye and the rest of their DL
detroit, 20 - they traded us their best DT last season, and schwartz will likely want to beef up his D
atlanta, 25 - this, i think, could be the best spot for us. atlanta's offense was surprisingly efficient last year, but their defensive line desperately needs an influx of youth and talent. their best DT right now is jonathan babineaux, but they have two decent ends in john abraham and jamaal anderson who could set the world on fire if only their tackles could get a push up the middle, which raji would definitely do for them.
indianapolis, 29 - also a team in desperate need of a tackle, though bill polian prefers his tackles smaller and quicker than raji really is. i wouldn't want to trade this low, either, because there's a chance that english could be gone at this point.
realistically, i'd like to trade with detroit just to be sure that we can get english, but also because we'd pick up higher picks in later rounds, too.
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Denver makes sense.
Tampa's said to be the likely destination of Albert Haynesworth (though his recent legal trouble could change things), which would take them out of the running.
Detroit would make sense, but I don't know if they want to give #1 and #5 money to two rookies in the same year.
Atlanta makes a lot of sense. Some mocks had them taking Raji before the Senior Bowl. Not sure they'd be willing to trade up, though, especially because they also have needs at LB and DE (from what I hear, Jamaal Anderson is soft & is going to be moved to backup UT).
Don't think Indy's an option. Ole Miss DT Peria Jerry likely is their top target. They may even go receiver again.
One less ambitious trade option: Green Bay's got two 3rd Round picks because of the Brett Favre trade, and Dom Capers has been talking about how important the NT is to his defense. Ted Thompson is usually a trade down kind of guy, but he may go for it if he feels Cincinnati or Oakland is going to take Raji.
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if we can't get curry, i'd vastly prefer to get into the mid-twenties, pick up at least two picks and get english, which got me wondering how we'd be able to pull off such an awesome feat, and then it hit me: raji. he's someone we've been ignoring that people would likely be willing to trade up for, especially since he looks like he'll be entirely dominant.
it's also very possible that the bengals could take him at six if they look to shore up their defense, which means that we can sell the fifth pick as someone's last chance to get him. the bengals currently have three defensive tackles on their roster, and none was drafted higher than the third. plus, with the addition of a player like keith rivers to their LB corps, there should be pressure within the organization to get someone in front of him so he's free to live up to his potential. otherwise, we can sell green bay as the team that will take him at nine, which is even more likely because they switched to the 3-4 this offseason.
therefore, here's the list of teams that we can auction the fifth to based on raji:
denver, 12 - also switched to the 3-4 and needs a NT
tampa bay, 19 - a massive tackle like raji would really open thing up for jovan haye and the rest of their DL
detroit, 20 - they traded us their best DT last season, and schwartz will likely want to beef up his D
atlanta, 25 - this, i think, could be the best spot for us. atlanta's offense was surprisingly efficient last year, but their defensive line desperately needs an influx of youth and talent. their best DT right now is jonathan babineaux, but they have two decent ends in john abraham and jamaal anderson who could set the world on fire if only their tackles could get a push up the middle, which raji would definitely do for them.
indianapolis, 29 - also a team in desperate need of a tackle, though bill polian prefers his tackles smaller and quicker than raji really is. i wouldn't want to trade this low, either, because there's a chance that english could be gone at this point.
realistically, i'd like to trade with detroit just to be sure that we can get english, but also because we'd pick up higher picks in later rounds, too.
if we can't get curry, i'd vastly prefer to get into the mid-twenties, pick up at least two picks and get english, which got me wondering how we'd be able to pull off such an awesome feat, and then it hit me: raji. he's someone we've been ignoring that people would likely be willing to trade up for, especially since he looks like he'll be entirely dominant.
The tradedown is getting more appealing every day. GREAT stuff in this thread JD!!!
- Tom F.
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Denver makes sense.
Tampa's said to be the likely destination of Albert Haynesworth (though his recent legal trouble could change things), which would take them out of the running.
Detroit would make sense, but I don't know if they want to give #1 and #5 money to two rookies in the same year.
Atlanta makes a lot of sense. Some mocks had them taking Raji before the Senior Bowl. Not sure they'd be willing to trade up, though, especially because they also have needs at LB and DE (from what I hear, Jamaal Anderson is soft & is going to be moved to backup UT).
Don't think Indy's an option. Ole Miss DT Peria Jerry likely is their top target. They may even go receiver again.
One less ambitious trade option: Green Bay's got two 3rd Round picks because of the Brett Favre trade, and Dom Capers has been talking about how important the NT is to his defense. Ted Thompson is usually a trade down kind of guy, but he may go for it if he feels Cincinnati or Oakland is going to take Raji.
Aloysius said:
Denver makes sense.Tampa's said to be the likely destination of Albert Haynesworth (though his recent legal trouble could change things), which would take them out of the running.
Detroit would make sense, but I don't know if they want to give #1 and #5 money to two rookies in the same year.
Atlanta makes a lot of sense. Some mocks had them taking Raji before the Senior Bowl. Not sure they'd be willing to trade up, though, especially because they also have needs at LB and DE (from what I hear, Jamaal Anderson is soft & is going to be moved to backup UT).
Don't think Indy's an option. Ole Miss DT Peria Jerry likely is their top target. They may even go receiver again.
One less ambitious trade option: Green Bay's got two 3rd Round picks because of the Brett Favre trade, and Dom Capers has been talking about how important the NT is to his defense. Ted Thompson is usually a trade down kind of guy, but he may go for it if he feels Cincinnati or Oakland is going to take Raji.
good calls on tampa and detroit. i stupidly forgot about the money issue in detroit. as far as tampa goes, let's hope that haynesworth's legal trouble dampens the market for him a bit and keeps him in nashville. with desire for english looking to be on the rise, tampa might be as low as he could possibly drop in this draft.
it's unfortunate that oakland gave a ton of money to tommy kelly last year. otherwise, we could use the double threat of them and cinci to scare people into buying our pick. with oakland out of the running, cinci seems our only leverage before green bay, and any of the teams after us who aren't interested in raji would be happy to trade with denver to pick up extra picks themselves.
@ flugs: the only problem with the tradedown is that it's looking less possible every day, which means that by the time four guys have come off the board in april it might be impossible, and everyone has these two months or so to feel each other out and project what they're going to do. we're really counting on crabtree or cinci being interested in raji, and those aren't enough options, especially because they're unrelated. if we had two teams after us but before GB interested in raji, it'd be a much easier sell.
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