Satisfying Ghoolie
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Be better of trading Manziel for a real RT and a 3rd or 4th rounder next year.
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No you're right they were top talent in college. Yet similar guys get drafted by other teams and end up at least being serviceable. I think starting day one for the Cleveland Browns ruined some of these guys careers because they were never able to properly learn the position. Couch's checking off the DE's being a prime example of this. The guy couldn't break that habit and it killed his read progression. But that's how much he didn't trust his o line.
No you're right they were top talent in college. Yet similar guys get drafted by other teams and end up at least being serviceable. I think starting day one for the Cleveland Browns ruined some of these guys careers because they were never able to properly learn the position. Couch's checking off the DE's being a prime example of this. The guy couldn't break that habit and it killed his read progression. But that's how much he didn't trust his o line.
Couch and Weeden were the only ones that we started from Day One. Guys like Frye/Quinn/McCoy were not thrown in immediately. They were given some time.
Couch was "ruined" by injuries. So I do not think that applies to him.
Weeden? Was he ruined by starting immediately as a rookie. I don't know.....as noted, he was older, more mature.
And again, as I have said in other threads: I do NOT think that the Cleveland Browns ruined these guys. I think these guys ruined the Cleveland Browns. If they were better, if they had played better the team would have won more, and they each may have kept their job here much longer. But they weren't better. They were bad. Their post Browns record pretty much confirms that.
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I think "Satisfying Ghoolie" would involve a pair of XXL pantyhose, an accordion, an autographed photo of Joe Thomas and Rich4Eagle in assless chaps.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I think "Satisfying Ghoolie" would involve a pair of XXL pantyhose, an accordion, an autographed photo of Joe Thomas and Rich4Eagle in assless chaps.
Zombo
Who would be wearing the panythose, Ghoolie or Rich?
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Zombo said:
I think "Satisfying Ghoolie" would involve a pair of XXL pantyhose, an accordion, an autographed photo of Joe Thomas and Rich4Eagle in assless chaps.
Zombo
Who would be wearing the panythose, Ghoolie or Rich?
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trade Johnny for Andre Johnson
we don't need another backup QB, but we sure could use a #1 WR
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@douche-nozzle said:
Almost every one of the QB's drafted by the Browns were a reach. Just bad picks.
Not a rapist in the bunch.
Enjoy the fact that you cut Brian Hoyer and he's going to bitchslap you twice in the first month of the season.
Zombo
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@douche-nozzle said:
Almost every one of the QB's drafted by the Browns were a reach. Just bad picks.
I don't know if they were a reach or not.....as in having been drafted much higher than most analysts believed they should be picked. A lot of people actually thought that Quinn and JMZ could be picked much higher. Couch was fairly well considered to be #1 overall material...at least top 2-3 by the pundits. Weeden though may have been the one guy that went higher than the pundits thought.
But, were they bad picks? Needless to say. Though it still remains to be seen with JMZ.
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I guess I have to make this observation: Ghoolie hasn't checked in to tell us if that would satisfy him. Where are you Virgin Copulator?
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But, Ghoolie.....would you make those trades?
(beyond that, I suggest that the Browns have with frequency drafted the hottest prospects......who turned out to be the biggest duds.
Quinn, Braylon, Richardson etc. all highly touted prospects. All failures.
So, it is not a matter of difference in philosophy....it is a matter of execution. When the Browns have done exactly what you suggest they should do....they have fallen flat on their faces.
I also don't think the Browns have invested any more high draft picks on OL than any other teams have. Some other teams have drafted a lot more. The Browns have two firsts and a couple of second rounders on their line. They have put more than that into their defensive backfield and about the same on their defensive line. And more into their offensive skill players.
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Here is a breakdown of the positions the Browns have invested their draft picks in the first three rounds since 2005.
Defensive Backs 6 picks
Linebacker 3 picks
Defensive Line 5 picks
Offensive line 5 picks
Wide Receiver 6 picks
Running Back 3 picks
Quarterback 5 picks
So, they have had 33 picks in rounds 1-3......14 of those have been expended for just 4 of the 22 positions on the field: QB/RB/WRs1&2.
42% of our high picks have been invested in offensive skill players. By rights it should only be 18%. (4 of 22).
So....lets not hear any talk about the Browns choosing to favor the offensive line over skill players when it comes to draft policy. It is BS.
The problem isn't the philosophy.....it is the names: Quinn/McCoy/Weeden/Frye/Manziel at QB. Edwards/Robiskie/Massaquoi/Travis Wilson/Little....and Gordon at WR.
Hardesty/Richardson/West at RB. Only one out of 11 of the known people became a positive. The other two are Manziel and West.....rookies.
And it is not like the Browns mismanaged these guys talents. None went on to do diddley anywhere else. There has just been bad choices. A complete failure of execution on the part of our skilled player draftees.
In other words...they have sucked.
Any arguments?
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VesnaKociper said:
Gipper,
let's get on the same page here.
I believe that an effective OL is tantamount to having a great offense. Where my beliefs and strategy differ is in how much value is placed on the individual OL player.
People slam the low percentage of success that drafting QBs, WRs and RBs provides, but nobody ever talks about the poor odds of getting good OL in the high picks. The draft is a crap shoot regardless of what position one chooses. With skilled positions however, the upside is much greater.
Joe Montana will always be a better pick than Joe Thomas. Jim Brown will always be the better pick than Gene Hickerson.
Having great skilled players will make an average OL great. When defenses have to account for explosive offensive potential, they have to play a little less aggressively at the line of scrimmage, They have to account for play action and deep routes. When a defense has more to account for the offensive line has an advantage. Play fakes and looks get them to flinch, more, or react, and the OL has the advantage of coming off the block and taking advantage of those reactions.
THAT is what enables an OL to wear down the opposing D.
Conversely, when a defense knows that an Offense cannot run outside, and cannot throw the ball deep, they can pretty much play straight ahead football, knowing that the overwhelming majority of plays will be short passes and straight ahead running.
I don't care if your five offensive linemen are Ringo, Gregg, Webster, Parker and Hickerson......... Five men cannot block eight men. I don't know if any NFL team has drafted more offensive linemen in higher positions than us, but over and over and over again we have the same complaints on this board........... "Our offense stinks because our OL stinks".
This isn't true, Gipper. Our offense stinks because our offense stinks. The OL has no tactical, mental, gamesmanship edge. They have to block defenders who absolutely know where our plays are going.
Do I think Thomas sucks? Of course not. I don't think he is as good as Ogden and Oher, because those guys can push people around. Thomas has fast feet and is tough to get around, but there is a reason the Browns can't run sweeps left, and seldom calls them.
Since the last 20 years of SB winners had walk ons and low round OL on their teams, I maintain that OL can be had in later rounds and that ESPECIALLY when you have no offense, you can't afford OL in the first round. maybe even the second round.
Gordon is the only real weapon we have. I would have moved up by hook or crook to get two WR in Round one, and would have taken Hyde in Round two. I would have sacrificed Thomas to do so. The point is this, having him has not protected our QBs, it hasn't given them any more time to pass, it hasn't helped our running game.
I would have stood pat with Hoyer. JF is a dud, he own amount to anything and is essentially another Couch, Quinn, McCoy waste of energy. This much I know, the Browns have been feeding the desires of the fans since 1999 by drafting linemen left and right. I believe that until the team makes a practice of drafting the HOTTEST prospects, and entering that high-profile game, our fortunes for winning will be relegated to miracle diamond in the rough discoveries.
J Football is a dud? I hope you're wrong, but I happen to have the same sinking feeling about him. Remember some other mega hype guys coming out of college like Tony Mandarich, and Brian Bosworth?
Here's a scouting report I dug up from the "other" board that the Manzealots don't want to hear-
JL 10/15 - Suspended first half of TXRI game for autograph scandal. Couple of TXTC sources say can't yell/scream at him or he shuts down; has walked away from Kingsbury in the past. Has an avg. work ethic, came to 4 of 32 summer '13 workouts, and quit going to in-season workouts late in '12. Doesn't study the game, said to know about 60% of the offense in '12, never watches film; one source said only time he watched film during '12 was before ALUN. Comes from 'outlaw bloodlines', mom moved the family to Kerrville to get away from father's wild family. Father's family is said to be very shady people, always into something, they are the root of Johnny's personality. 'What you see on TV and how he is portrayed, that's him; but when you talk to him, you'll like him'. Coaches love his tuffs/competes, they want to go to war with him, but 'Johnny will be Johnny' during the week. Knows how to scheme the system, arrogant and full of himself, but he's not smug to coaches. Has been like this since Day 1, has never gone to class, goes to beat of own drum, but has ultimate confidence. Loves the spotlight, football is his release, big games don't scare him. Has size 15 feet and freakishly big hands. Will drink, but no one I spoke with think he's a smoker. Teammates don't dislike him, but there's some resentment, more so in the offseason when he isn't coming to workouts and they are busting their butt. Loner, doesn't hang out with the guys, but very close with WR Mike Evans. Already has money, is used to spotlight, has already been exposed to NFL-level fame. Will never take football seriously enough for our coaching staff, he'll hate meetings, will have to drag him to work out, etc. The definition of the word maintenance. CONCERNS: Maturity, passion for preparation, high-maintenance, work ethic
I haven't forgotten he blew off the Manning's football camp either. And there's posters here who wonder why I had doubts about drafting him?
VesnaKociper said:
Richardson and Quinn WERE NOT HOT PICKS. They were shit. Jim Brown called Richardson ORDINARY...........
QUIN would have say untaken until the third round.
You are full of shit. the Browns have NOT been active in the top picks. Other than Tim Couch #1 overall. They have taken second echelon players. Fucking Brady Quinn? Good grief.
Edwards was known to have dropitis @ Michigan- but we drafted him anyway.
Gee, something's wrong- I agree with you again. "Run to Darkness" Richardson was not only a wasted pick, we actually gave up picks to move up to get him. And remember I told Shep "It's a sin if we draft Quinn?"
Edwards was known to have dropitis @ Michigan, but we drafted him anyway.
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Say, why not just trade the entire offense and special teams away for a good wr?Golly, what a joke - trade JOE THOMAS ? And get the qb's stuffed to the turfall over again?Sounds like somebody is afraid the Browns are going to start winning and losing them bets......********************************A man parks his car in a rough part of town with two accordions on the back seat, forgetting to lock the back door.When he returns, there are three accordions.____________________How do you protect a valuable instrument?Hide it in an accordion case.____________________How is playing an accordion like throwing a javelin blindfolded?You don't have to be very good to get people's attention.___________________If you drop an accordion, a broken alarm clock, and a turkey feather off a 20-story building, which one lands first and which way up do they land?Who cares?____________________This guy walks into an antique store and notices a brass rat sitting on one of the top shelves. He asks the clerk, "How much for that brass rat?". The clerk says "Well sir, it's 25 bucks just for the rat, and 50 bucks if you want to hear the story that goes with it. Take my word, you'll want to *hear* the story." The guy says "No, I believe I'll just take the rat for 25 bucks."So, this fella takes his brass rat and heads down the street. Right away he notices that a *real* rat is following him, so he makes a quick turn down the next street. He passes an alley, at which point about a half-dozen rats come out and start following him. This guy is getting pretty panicked at this point, so he starts heading out toward the outskirts of town. When he passes the town dump, *hundreds* of rats stream out and follow him. Our hero is beside himself at this point, so as he passes the river that winds around town, he tosses the brass rat right in the drink. Every last one of the real rats follows the brass rat into the river and drowns.Relieved, our protagonist heads back to the antique store where he got the brass rat. "I knew it!", says the clerk, "You're back to hear the story about the rat, aren't you?". "No sir", says the guy, "I just wanted to find out how much you're asking for that brass accordion I see you've got up there."____________________What is the definition of a gentleman?Somebody who knows how to play the accordion, but doesn't.____________________What is the range of an accordion?Twenty yards if you've got a good arm!____________________What's the difference between an accordion and a macaw?One is loud, obnoxious and noisy; the other is a bird.____________________Why do Accordionists make good politicians?They are used to playing both ends off against the middle.
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LMAO!....best post I've ever read on this board! Thanks.
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Who can ever forget Gene Carroll's Polka Varieties on Sunday to get warmed up for a Browns game?
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Skill players do not make a team great. How many playoff games have the Lions and Cowboys won in the last 3 years?
Skill players complete an offense. Good OL play is required before any offense will be remotely competent.
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The offensive line is the engine of the offense, I say again, the running backs are the tires... eh...
the qb is the steering wheel, etc.
Great offenses have solid blocking. From what I've read, the offense's adaptation to Shannahan's offense
has been a great deal of work.
We'll see how it goes once the regular season starts. Hopefully hits high gear by game 3.
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