Do You Really Want An Offense?
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AG1969:
for all the disappointment you must be feeling you know we as fans don't make personnel decisions so 'we' can't trade him.
would i trade him now while he is still unproven to be a champ or a bust? yep. give me a first rounder and a player and it's done. not because i dislike the kid cuz i don't, only a pure biz decision. right now the odds are in favor of him not helping this team this year and given the other negatives (not going all in and being there in the off-season wanting to win the job..), jerrah, chip or anyone else could come a knocking and i'd be listening.
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Aggie fans have a lucky couple of years of relevancy and now they think they know everything and have the best players... Ugh.
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Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
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when he becomes the pocket passer pettine wants he will come in the game.
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Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
The Browns spent a first round pick on JF.
They haven't written him off just yet.
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when he becomes the pocket passer pettine wants he will come in the game.
I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year. Some were being too hateful to realize he's a great one, regardless of who the QB is then.
tiamat63-"This isn't like Madden, kid." LOL-nobody has called me a kid since the late 50s; And I hate the Madden game.
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when he becomes the pocket passer pettine wants he will come in the game.
I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year. Some were being too hateful to realize he's a great one, regardless of who the QB is then.
tiamat63-"This isn't like Madden, kid." LOL-nobody has called me a kid since the late 50s; And I hate the Madden game.
By all means, tell us what makes him great? His ability to use his feet against the bottom 50 of college defenses? Was it him jumping head long into a pile of defenders against Duke and them being too dumb to tackle? Was it his >45% completion percentage against the only defenses he faced with a pulse?I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year. Some were being too hateful to realize he's a great one, regardless of who the QB is then.
tiamat63-"This isn't like Madden, kid." LOL-nobody has called me a kid since the late 50s; And I hate the Madden game.
Oh wait - was it having two top 5 tackles protect his ass so he could run around like a Retard?
No, I got it - having Mike Evans and Swope bail out his shitty passes.
I'll say what I said an hour before we announced his name - he'll be a bigger bust than Quinn, Weedster and maybe even Couch. There is nothing about his game that translates to the highest levels of football and the one recent QB that tried of late could barely make it a full season in DC.
It a shame you've been watching the game this long and not able to identify talent.
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Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
Well at least this got a few people thinking instead of writing off a QB who hasn't played a down yet in a regular season game. That is the part as a fan that really sickens me. He's a Browns player now. Treat him like one. So many are quick to write him off when all they have seen is a player trying to "think" through a new offense rather than run it like second nature with the added instincts to change it on the fly when it's obvious the play is breaking down. When he gets to that level then he has a chance to be something special. But first he needs a chance. Pettine at least seems to understand that. I heard today he will likely look hard at bringing JM into the game with special packages. I doubt we see that much the first 3 games unless there is significant garbage time.
I think "real Browns Fans" (you know, the ones that have been here all along?) aren't writing him off....they are saying be patient, he's not ready. BUT, the "Johnny Fans" (note I didnt say Browns fans) keep screaming play him now, he's not getting a chance, you all dont know what you have, blah blah blah ....Really, it's all that blind Johnny Man Love what we want to write off....
I gotta admit, although I wouldnt have made the pick, I did get pretty excited when we drafted him....couldnt wait to see him actually....but, now, with all the JF lovers, extra media land slide, questionable character issues, poor play, etc...Im liking him on my team him less and less everyday....(that would change if he comes around)
I would like to point out that there are ZERO fans complaining about or writing off GILBERT, BITONIO, WEST or KIRKSEY....wonder why that is....
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By all means, tell us what makes him great? His ability to use his feet against the bottom 50 of college defenses? Was it him jumping head long into a pile of defenders against Duke and them being too dumb to tackle? Was it his >45% completion percentage against the only defenses he faced with a pulse?I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year. Some were being too hateful to realize he's a great one, regardless of who the QB is then.
tiamat63-"This isn't like Madden, kid." LOL-nobody has called me a kid since the late 50s; And I hate the Madden game.
Oh wait - was it having two top 5 tackles protect his ass so he could run around like a Retard?
No, I got it - having Mike Evans and Swope bail out his shitty passes.
I'll say what I said an hour before we announced his name - he'll be a bigger bust than Quinn, Weedster and maybe even Couch. There is nothing about his game that translates to the highest levels of football and the one recent QB that tried of late could barely make it a full season in DC.
It a shame you've been watching the game this long and not able to identify talent.
By all means, tell us what makes him great? His ability to use his feet against the bottom 50 of college defenses? Was it him jumping head long into a pile of defenders against Duke and them being too dumb to tackle? Was it his >45% completion percentage against the only defenses he faced with a pulse?
Oh wait - was it having two top 5 tackles protect his ass so he could run around like a Retard?
No, I got it - having Mike Evans and Swope bail out his shitty passes.
I'll say what I said an hour before we announced his name - he'll be a bigger bust than Quinn, Weedster and maybe even Couch. There is nothing about his game that translates to the highest levels of football and the one recent QB that tried of late could barely make it a full season in DC.
It a shame you've been watching the game this long and not able to identify talent.
Don't let facts get in the way of your argument. Texans don't understand em good...
I'm not ready to write the kid off. But like mudfly I really didn't want him or the mess that followed. But now we have him and I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst. He's a brown so I root for him no matter how hard he makes me not want to.
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when he becomes the pocket passer pettine wants he will come in the game.
I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year. Some were being too hateful to realize he's a great one, regardless of who the QB is then.
tiamat63-"This isn't like Madden, kid." LOL-nobody has called me a kid since the late 50s; And I hate the Madden game.
I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year.
i agree with your suggestion with the OL. i don't think schwartz has what it takes to be dominate against the great edge rushers of the NFL.
that being said who knows what we'll do with our first pick next year. common sense would say WR but we all know if things look bad at the QB position the FO might just want to play it safe and draft another one, just to have this whole process start all over again.
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By all means, tell us what makes him great? His ability to use his feet against the bottom 50 of college defenses? Was it him jumping head long into a pile of defenders against Duke and them being too dumb to tackle? Was it his >45% completion percentage against the only defenses he faced with a pulse?I agree. And this will happen when Pettine secures the R side of that line. I placed my suggestion for next year. Some were being too hateful to realize he's a great one, regardless of who the QB is then.
tiamat63-"This isn't like Madden, kid." LOL-nobody has called me a kid since the late 50s; And I hate the Madden game.
Oh wait - was it having two top 5 tackles protect his ass so he could run around like a Retard?
No, I got it - having Mike Evans and Swope bail out his shitty passes.
I'll say what I said an hour before we announced his name - he'll be a bigger bust than Quinn, Weedster and maybe even Couch. There is nothing about his game that translates to the highest levels of football and the one recent QB that tried of late could barely make it a full season in DC.
It a shame you've been watching the game this long and not able to identify talent.
By all means, tell us what makes him great? His ability to use his feet against the bottom 50 of college defenses? Was it him jumping head long into a pile of defenders against Duke and them being too dumb to tackle? Was it his >45% completion percentage against the only defenses he faced with a pulse?
Oh wait - was it having two top 5 tackles protect his ass so he could run around like a Retard?
No, I got it - having Mike Evans and Swope bail out his shitty passes.
I'll say what I said an hour before we announced his name - he'll be a bigger bust than Quinn, Weedster and maybe even Couch. There is nothing about his game that translates to the highest levels of football and the one recent QB that tried of late could barely make it a full season in DC.
It a shame you've been watching the game this long and not able to identify talent.
Yeah a real shame that I'm just as ignorant at picking talent as that king of ignoramuses, Jon Gruden. You know, the past superbowl winning coach that said if he had the first pick overall in the draft it would have been Johnny Manziel. What an idiot! At least I didn't go that far so I guess I have a neuron or two still functioning a little better than he.
And tell me oh wise one, should the Browns pass on that Aggie OT because an ignorant man such as myself had the temerity to provide the name for them?
Here I saved you the trouble of looking it up.
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By all means, tell us what makes him great? His ability to use his feet against the bottom 50 of college defenses? Was it him jumping head long into a pile of defenders against Duke and them being too dumb to tackle? Was it his >45% completion percentage against the only defenses he faced with a pulse?
Oh wait - was it having two top 5 tackles protect his ass so he could run around like a Retard?
No, I got it - having Mike Evans and Swope bail out his shitty passes.
I'll say what I said an hour before we announced his name - he'll be a bigger bust than Quinn, Weedster and maybe even Couch. There is nothing about his game that translates to the highest levels of football and the one recent QB that tried of late could barely make it a full season in DC.
It a shame you've been watching the game this long and not able to identify talent.
Yeah a real shame that I'm just as ignorant at picking talent as that king of ignoramuses, Jon Gruden. You know, the past superbowl winning coach that said if he had the first pick overall in the draft it would have been Johnny Manziel. What an idiot! At least I didn't go that far so I guess I have a neuron or two still functioning a little better than he.
And tell me oh wise one, should the Browns pass on that Aggie OT because an ignorant man such as myself had the temerity to provide the name for them?
Here I saved you the trouble of looking it up.
Yeah a real shame that I'm just as ignorant at picking talent as that king of ignoramuses, Jon Gruden. You know, the past superbowl winning coach that said if he had the first pick overall in the draft it would have been Johnny Manziel. What an idiot! At least I didn't go that far so I guess I have a neuron or two still functioning a little better than he.
And tell me oh wise one, should the Browns pass on that Aggie OT because an ignorant man such as myself had the temerity to provide the name for them?
Here I saved you the trouble of looking it up.
Please. Gruden is the biggest smoke blower. Dude says everyone is the best at every position.
Gruden may have said he was worth #1 pick but guess what, he wasn't. You can only sell you car for what people will buy it for, not what you think its worth.
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You use Gruden as your vote of confidence? That's outstanding... Don't get me wrong, the man is a great X's & O's mind. As a talent evaluator? Not so much. By your reasoning Holmgren must have been a great talent scout. Keep in mind this is the same guy that tried to catch lighting in a bottle with the Weedster.
Oh by the by, Gruden said he "loved" Weeden as well. Mentioned him over Andrew Luck & RG3.
As for the debate of tackle? I think Schwartz will have a solid season myself. Although that conversation is kind of pointless since the topic at hand is QB and not Oline play. Regarding a tackle, I like that Schreff from Iowa and/or Collins at LSU. FYI, you don't have to provide word definitions. If I don't know one, I'll look it up. Better yet, just deduce the context in which the word has been used. See how far simple logic goes?
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You use Gruden as your vote of confidence? That's outstanding... Don't get me wrong, the man is a great X's & O's mind. As a talent evaluator? Not so much. By your reasoning Holmgren must have been a great talent scout. Keep in mind this is the same guy that tried to catch lighting in a bottle with the Weedster.
Oh by the by, Gruden said he "loved" Weeden as well. Mentioned him over Andrew Luck & RG3.
As for the debate of tackle? I think Schwartz will have a solid season myself. Although that conversation is kind of pointless since the topic at hand is QB and not Oline play. Regarding a tackle, I like that Schreff from Iowa and/or Collins at LSU. FYI, you don't have to provide word definitions. If I don't know one, I'll look it up. Better yet, just deduce the context in which the word has been used. See how far simple logic goes?
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Honestly....this whole JF thing reminds me a lot of Tebow and that whole 3 year media nightmare of a mess his career was......a LOT of parallels....
Both were Heisman winners with non traditional skills and winning college records(and Tebow won championships too), but they had many who thought their skills may not translate to the NFL.....
Both had the same ravers and some haters....all saying the exact same thing as they said with JF...Pundits predicted from 1st player taken to 4th round...
Both were passed up for more traditional QB's, then selected mid/late first round(flier picks???)
And....
Both also had massive distractions caused by an outrageous media circus surrounding them and their non football issues(JF parties and Tebow prays) and the pressure of the whole world micro analyzing every pass they make or word they say....
To think Denver let Tebow go,, even after playing well and winning games and taking the team to the playoffs, says a lot about how good teams react to major distractions.....
And the fact that NO ONE will pick him up now??.....says even more.....(apparently the potential reward is not worth the circus)(thats what it says)
Sure hope our guy learns from Tebows journey and fairs a bit better!
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Aggie fans have a lucky couple of years of relevancy and now they think they know everything and have the best players... Ugh.
Aggie fans have a lucky couple of years of relevancy and now they think they know everything and have the best players... Ugh.
They hate UT yet they finally experience a some success and they turn into their Texan brethren.
It hasn't caught up to Baylor fans yet thankfully though.
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Don't kid yourself, that Denver push to the playoffs was only after they took the ball out of Tebows hands. (barring absolute necessity) then letting the running game and defense do their thing.
Look back at what McDaniels had. He was directly responsible for trading in a Denver offense that had Cutler, Marshall & Royal in favor of Tebow.
There are STILL people that think Tebow can play QB. It's just mind blowing.
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By all means, tell us what makes him great? His ability to use his feet against the bottom 50 of college defenses? Was it him jumping head long into a pile of defenders against Duke and them being too dumb to tackle? Was it his >45% completion percentage against the only defenses he faced with a pulse?
Oh wait - was it having two top 5 tackles protect his ass so he could run around like a Retard?
No, I got it - having Mike Evans and Swope bail out his shitty passes.
I'll say what I said an hour before we announced his name - he'll be a bigger bust than Quinn, Weedster and maybe even Couch. There is nothing about his game that translates to the highest levels of football and the one recent QB that tried of late could barely make it a full season in DC.
It a shame you've been watching the game this long and not able to identify talent.
Yeah a real shame that I'm just as ignorant at picking talent as that king of ignoramuses, Jon Gruden. You know, the past superbowl winning coach that said if he had the first pick overall in the draft it would have been Johnny Manziel. What an idiot! At least I didn't go that far so I guess I have a neuron or two still functioning a little better than he.
And tell me oh wise one, should the Browns pass on that Aggie OT because an ignorant man such as myself had the temerity to provide the name for them?
Here I saved you the trouble of looking it up.
Yeah a real shame that I'm just as ignorant at picking talent as that king of ignoramuses, Jon Gruden. You know, the past superbowl winning coach that said if he had the first pick overall in the draft it would have been Johnny Manziel. What an idiot! At least I didn't go that far so I guess I have a neuron or two still functioning a little better than he.
And tell me oh wise one, should the Browns pass on that Aggie OT because an ignorant man such as myself had the temerity to provide the name for them?
Here I saved you the trouble of looking it up.
C'mon man. You're emotionally invested in the kid due to your collegiate collection. Trust me I get it. Most of us do. However the reason you're still here and your fellow Aggies aren't is because you have displayed a semblance of rationalism. Don't throw that away now.
JM sitting isn't going to kill his career. While other facets of our offensive have been shitty, and that's an optimistic appraisal, so far, namely the WR and right side of the line, you can't lay the blame on them. While I thought that JM has done better than Hoyer so far, granted with different personnel, you know just as well as I do that he hasn't done enough to supplant Hoyer for the starting gig.
As someone who was excited for our drafting of JM, I honestly think sitting is the best thing for him. I thought so before the preseason and I still do. He's having self confessed difficulties with the playbook and with the potential flux at WR, he's better off taking some time to learn the system and not have to deal with the concept of be a "bust" at the very beginning of his career because he doesn't light it up the way he did in college. Let the vet take the lumps.
Keep in mind, this whole starting rooks from day one thing is still relatively new. I can't remember the QB that started this current trend (I want to say Big Ben got the ball rolling on it (granted he didn't start out of the gate but made people realize it was a possibility), but I think Bradford might have been the biggest day one starter without reservations type of deal) but I do recall the acrimony within the media (I know, I know) of starting a QB day one.
Obviously starting a rookie QB isn't entirely new but us Brown's fans have seen more QB's ruined by starting day one than most other fanbases would like to fathom. While we've obviously had bad luck with it, the fans don't want to see it happen again. Are we, or at least most members of this board, shortsighted and thoroughly enjoy jerking our knee? Yup. Welcome to America and the Internet. (If you think the message board is bad you should check out the Tavern on gamedays.)
While I, myself am also susceptible to knee jerk reactions, I try my best to shy away from them and to not take much stock in post I believe to be in such a vein. The only reason I respond to this post is you're newfound dedication to it. Look I'm an Oklahoman and usually find joy in Texans making an ass of themselves. You are one of the few post JM members I could/can tolerate. This is difficult for me but if I can pull of trying to help out a Texan, I'm sure you can return to you're reasonable ways.
FYI: I'm counting this as my good deed for the year. The rest of you motherfuckers best not cross me.
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Actually Taco I am on the same page. JM is NOT ready yet. I know that. But that does not mean I don't believe he will ever be ready like most here who have prejudged him based on their "expertise". I get emotional when people start trying to tell me I know nothing about football-I do take that personally. I provided a real solution for the RT problem in next year's draft based on the best available player who I personally have watched outplay (starting as a freshman RG) all other O linemen at A&M including those two taken at #2 and #6 overall. Like Matthews before him he was promised LT as a senior when Jake went pro. That's where the money is and he is better than either of those two were. Not a guess or a wish, just a fact. I provided the links to mock drafts for next year and that was even derided as just "preseason". Well those other two were placed high in the preseason mock drafts as well and we all now know how that turned out. Matthews has already moved over to LT to replace Atlanta's player who is now down for the season.
OK-back to my reasonable ways. Ced Ogbuehi will not only be in the top 10 (maybe even top 5), he will be an all Pro some day barring injury. No emotion, no conjecture, just plain old great football player that I hope the Browns are able to get on board for what I see at the moment is a glaring problem for whomever is the starting QB. The right side of the O is the weak link of this team and that kid can play either position, RG or RT., far better than the two in place now. And by the way Stanford has a pretty damn good one too (OT Andrus Peat)-those two as first two choices would be ideal if the Browns happen to have both choices that high. Barring one of those look to Iowa's Scherff for help.
And for those who would rather have a 1st round WR, I am a firm believer that you build lines first, skill second on a team that is struggling. It pays off far better in the long run. The Browns need two more really good drafts in 2015 and 2016 before we can talk Championship caliber team. The D is there. The O needs a line. Pettine needs the time to build this right, foundation before jazz.
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The answer was on display for you last night against your arch rival.
1. Bring in someone who knows how to run a Chip Kelly style no huddle, up tempo, run 'em till they drop offense or send Shanahan to school on it. I'd rather start with Art Briles (or someone like him) and go from there myself. Shanahan is too old school for my taste and I'm not sure he could keep up with Johnny Football. Shanahan is trying to hitch a racehorse to a plow team instead of entering the Kentucky Derby. That is the definition of just plain stupid.
2. Spend those first rounders on the right side of the O line. You need a R tackle with the skills of a L tackle-Ced Obuehi would be a good place to start-he's played them both.
3. Add another RB with blocking, catching, running skills-you can never have too many if you want to wear out a good D.
If you don't agree that will work then keep your head in the sand and continue to be the huddle up every play, let the D plan and rest, Cleveland Browns, death camp for QB's and perennial bottom dweller. Cleveland has the D that would set this O up to succeed. It just takes stepping into the modern age without fear. What has the past gotten you? Nothing I can see.
Oh, and drop either Grossman or Hoyer and retain Shaw-he proved he can run a no huddle at SC when the chips are down.
The answer was on display for you last night against your arch rival.
1. Bring in someone who knows how to run a Chip Kelly style no huddle, up tempo, run 'em till they drop offense or send Shanahan to school on it. I'd rather start with Art Briles (or someone like him) and go from there myself. Shanahan is too old school for my taste and I'm not sure he could keep up with Johnny Football. Shanahan is trying to hitch a racehorse to a plow team instead of entering the Kentucky Derby. That is the definition of just plain stupid.
2. Spend those first rounders on the right side of the O line. You need a R tackle with the skills of a L tackle-Ced Obuehi would be a good place to start-he's played them both.
3. Add another RB with blocking, catching, running skills-you can never have too many if you want to wear out a good D.
If you don't agree that will work then keep your head in the sand and continue to be the huddle up every play, let the D plan and rest, Cleveland Browns, death camp for QB's and perennial bottom dweller. Cleveland has the D that would set this O up to succeed. It just takes stepping into the modern age without fear. What has the past gotten you? Nothing I can see.
Oh, and drop either Grossman or Hoyer and retain Shaw-he proved he can run a no huddle at SC when the chips are down.
All of this is way premature (we've only had two preseason games), and sound like you haven't been listening to what Pettine or JF have been saying. Pettine has already said they intend to work in the no-huddle offense eventually and that he thinks it is the future of NFL offenses. The other thing that is going to happen eventually is that JF is going to be the starter. JF said he knows he isn't ready and that he was terrible his first year at A&M so he expects a learning curve at the NFL level.
So if you want him to "wreck this league" and for the league to wreck him, chill out and be patient, it might take a year or two for this offense to come together. And again, it's only preseason... Cam Newton completed 40% of his passes in preseason of his rookie year.
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