Matt Prater/Josh Gordon
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Yeah not quite getting where race was mentioned or even implied.
Yeah not quite getting where race was mentioned or even implied.
Some folks just see it everywhere these days...
the best post stockton has made on this board since becoming a card carrying browns fan.
There's been a few... this one is up there.
Sure, there's a chance. And no one knows but Josh...
... and you apparently based upon the rest of your post.
You and the NFL have both called him a liar. Do you have a basis for that? Has he been caught in a lie previously? I don't...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@mudfly to your post he might not have admitted it because in knew he did not smoke weed. does that mean he made the right decision by being around people that still do? hell no. but i know plenty of people that quit drinking that hang out with me and my friends when we're pounding them down. and weed doesn't have that hold over you like alcohol or other drugs do BUT it does have a lingering in the air affect that could get the non-user in trouble.
his recent HISTORY has shown that he has passed over 50+ piss tests since being popped over a year ago. not too shabby for someone trying to straighten himself out. goodell might have just kicked the stool underneath this kid who was hanging on to a self provided noose.
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Sure, there's a chance. And no one knows but Josh.
But I have no reason to believe him, because his HISTORY is that he does this and makes LOTS of poor choices. You have to EARN trust, and he hasn't done that. If I had to guess(and I do), I would guess that he did smoke and took a calculated risk, but missed by a day.
I also think he continued to put himself in situations that a more responsible person wouldnt.
Now..... honestly answer this one question......
If you had a job that paid 7 figures for only a few years......AND you had already been busted & suspended several times for weed....and you are at risk of losing that job.....and WHILE YOU ARE SUSPENDED AND FIGHTING FOR YOUR JOB, you decide to drive 80 mph with a 1/2 pound of pot in your car.....THEN while this is also now pending, you decide to go hang with some gangsters, then speed AGAIN(cept this time you're drunk)....would you consider this responsible behavior? or someone else fault?
Obviously, the guy has no control or sense of responsibility.....zero.....yet we defend him like a child who doesnt know better.....
As a business owner, I can honestly say that Id probably fire him.....though, based upon his college "resume", I can also say I would never have hired him.....It's really pretty sad how everyone is a victim anymore and no one is responsible for their own actions and company they keep. I see this with my own staff all the time. I have guys get arrested and then think it's an "excused absence" caused by the police......really.....this has happened several times, actually.....
"Hey, it's not Joshes fault he had pot in his system.....it's his friends fault!!!....or Goodells fault!!!!....yeah, thats it....""
Whatever.....you all can go on about it, but Im out. I guess Im just an old school, shut up and do your job kind of guy......
Instead, Ill be rooting for the BROWNS......(All 53 of them)......and looking forward to the season....
but am dreading a whole year of whining about "what if josh was here".................
So Matt Prater would be fired too? Two DUIs and continues to drink?
So Matt Prater would be fired too? Two DUIs and continues to drink?
If it was MY choice, yes he would be fired. And, at my company, if he was listed as a driver(most are), then Id fire him after the first offense. I allow zero DUI driver's on my company insurance. Usually the CBA dictates if thats allowed or not.
Look anyone can pull a name to compare and I guarantee if Prater(or Rice, or anyone else) was suspended, you'd still be whining....
The irony is that my company is a Union company and we have a CBA too. So I actually understand what is happening here and have lived it over and over and over again. I completely understand following THE process that the agreement calls for and not necessarily doing what I, as a non union owner, may normally do. All our staff are drug checked and we go thru this time and time again. I also(like Goodell) have my hands tied on a regular basis by union rules, which is insanely frustrating, considering it is MY company......
So, there is a little slice of my bias here......I hate union rules and them always telling me how to run MY company......and they are always completely inflexible when something happen to one of their members, yet have zero concern for how that member negatively effects the company....so, when their guy breaks the rules, I am more than happy to enforce THEIR rules to the letter and if it doesn't seem fair...oh well, life aint fair......or do you still think it is?????
Ill add that our unions(we have 4) do random drug tests, but I can also send any worker any day, if I suspect he's on drugs.....and if he tests positive, I usually fire him. The only difference is that the Union will still keep him(he gets 3 strikes, I believe)and he can just go work elsewhere....
In the end.....I think Josh got what he deserves...that wont change and I think there is a LOT of Union - NFL politics here that no one really understands or is talking about.....the NFL just followed the guideline, as they do in every case....oh and I also get that every case is different and each is weighed within the rules, so Rice and Prater have zero relevance to me....
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A lot depends upon what he said was the actual exposure. Was he in a closed car with the ac or heater running while driving around an hour while friends smoked? Was he claiming he was at a party when someone lit up before he had a chance to get away? I certainly don't know what he said were the circumstances and I have not read it anywhere where he has described it. But I can say if he tried to blame it on something or someone not under his control, he's "just blowin' smoke". don't want to come up positive? Just leave or stop the car and take a taxi. No one can force you to breath secondhand MJ.
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Yeah not quite getting where race was mentioned or even implied.
Some folks just see it everywhere these days...
the best post stockton has made on this board since becoming a card carrying browns fan.
There's been a few... this one is up there.
Sure, there's a chance. And no one knows but Josh...
... and you apparently based upon the rest of your post.
You and the NFL have both called him a liar. Do you have a basis for that? Has he been caught in a lie previously? I don't...
Some folks just see it everywhere these days...
There's been a few... this one is up there.
... and you apparently based upon the rest of your post.
You and the NFL have both called him a liar. Do you have a basis for that? Has he been caught in a lie previously? I don't...
I didnt call him a liar....I said his history has given me no reason to believe him....or this could be the little boy who cried wolf, in reverse....who knows....
Here's what we dont know....It could be second hand smoke.....or he could have smoked.....
Is it possible some or many of those 70 passed tests were "almost" fails??? Could the NFL know he's been smoking all along, but "just" getting under the wire??? could they have THAT info or are you ASSUMING every test was 100% free of ANY trace?
If this was a first or second offense, it wouldnt matter.....but thats not Joshes fault either....I get it...
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Is it possible to smoke at any point during his schedule of tests and actually stay below 15ng? I feel like that would stick around longer than the interval of tests.
Also, how exactly does smoking weed make you a "gangster"? It's no worse (if not less) than alcohol. It'll be legal country wide soon enough
(maybe not in the South... But... Tye South is a little slow)
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you know back in the day it was common practice for nuns in catholic school to hit kids across the knuckles with rulers for misbehaving in class. oh and then there was slavery and segregation. time and clearer heads produce change.
i get the breaking rules shit and yes if you want to carry every offense to the T then there would be a lot more jails and a lot more people in jail including mothers who left their kids in the car while picking up their dry cleaning.
every magistrate has discretion and in this case those with the power chose not to use any. i hope he does sue and i hope they have to eat a big gordon cum pie.
i understand your frustration with unions who have destroyed the concept of blue color working calss in this country but tell me you'd fire a guy for leaving his bus dirty.
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Miktoxic,
StocktonShorts already brought up in detail within his original post about the difference between beer and drugs:
"Josh Gordon commits the exact same violation of Stage 3 with a trace amount of weed, and hes suspended 16 games. The hammer. Now you can say weed and beer is different but not the way Stage 3 of NFL Substance Abuse Program is written, any violation is a violation and 16 games is mandatory. However with Matt Prater that was changed because "hey just a few beers on vacation" yet with Josh Gordon its "Nope, cant change the rule, it says 16 games and thats the way the CBA was written, sorry"
Then he asks why the different sentences. I'm not a mind reader but I think the only difference between the two cases is one guy's black and one white. He could be right but I just think it's more about the illegal substance. Hopefully I didn't offend any one. Not my intention.
A 3 day meth binge sounds pretty good right about now however.
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So Matt Prater would be fired too? Two DUIs and continues to drink?
If it was MY choice, yes he would be fired. And, at my company, if he was listed as a driver(most are), then Id fire him after the first offense. I allow zero DUI driver's on my company insurance. Usually the CBA dictates if thats allowed or not.
Look anyone can pull a name to compare and I guarantee if Prater(or Rice, or anyone else) was suspended, you'd still be whining....
The irony is that my company is a Union company and we have a CBA too. So I actually understand what is happening here and have lived it over and over and over again. I completely understand following THE process that the agreement calls for and not necessarily doing what I, as a non union owner, may normally do. All our staff are drug checked and we go thru this time and time again. I also(like Goodell) have my hands tied on a regular basis by union rules, which is insanely frustrating, considering it is MY company......
So, there is a little slice of my bias here......I hate union rules and them always telling me how to run MY company......and they are always completely inflexible when something happen to one of their members, yet have zero concern for how that member negatively effects the company....so, when their guy breaks the rules, I am more than happy to enforce THEIR rules to the letter and if it doesn't seem fair...oh well, life aint fair......or do you still think it is?????
Ill add that our unions(we have 4) do random drug tests, but I can also send any worker any day, if I suspect he's on drugs.....and if he tests positive, I usually fire him. The only difference is that the Union will still keep him(he gets 3 strikes, I believe)and he can just go work elsewhere....
In the end.....I think Josh got what he deserves...that wont change and I think there is a LOT of Union - NFL politics here that no one really understands or is talking about.....the NFL just followed the guideline, as they do in every case....oh and I also get that every case is different and each is weighed within the rules, so Rice and Prater have zero relevance to me....
In the end.....I think Josh got what he deserves...that wont change and I think there is a LOT of Union - NFL politics here that no one really understands or is talking about.....the NFL just followed the guideline, as they do in every case....oh and I also get that every case is different and each is weighed within the rules, so Rice and Prater have zero relevance to me....
So the case that is literally exactly the same as Gordon's has no relevance to you because it disproves your point?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Not saying this is the case, but isn't it entirely conceivable that he would have that level of test results, if he went to a concert where people are toking? If that were the case, it's not like he could've helped that situation.
That said, the two traffic stops were beyond ridiculous, so that situation seems pretty unlikely to have triggered his "failed" test.
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Miktoxic,
StocktonShorts already brought up in detail within his original post about the difference between beer and drugs:
"Josh Gordon commits the exact same violation of Stage 3 with a trace amount of weed, and hes suspended 16 games. The hammer. Now you can say weed and beer is different but not the way Stage 3 of NFL Substance Abuse Program is written, any violation is a violation and 16 games is mandatory. However with Matt Prater that was changed because "hey just a few beers on vacation" yet with Josh Gordon its "Nope, cant change the rule, it says 16 games and thats the way the CBA was written, sorry"
Then he asks why the different sentences. I'm not a mind reader but I think the only difference between the two cases is one guy's black and one white. He could be right but I just think it's more about the illegal substance. Hopefully I didn't offend any one. Not my intention.
A 3 day meth binge sounds pretty good right about now however.
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Every player in the NFL goes through an extensive orientation process of the do's and don'ts of league policy and procedure. All players sign a code of conduct. Some of those players have character flaws, such as a propensity for violence or drug abuse or some learning disability. Usually owners have a pretty good idea when they accept these types of individuals that there is the potential for one or more of these flaws to rear it's ugly head, but take the chance . Very commendable on their part to even consider giving the player the opportunity ! I'm sure there are extenuating circumstances in each and every case of violations, and are dealt with on a case to case basis. How many times do you have to tell someone to quit screwing up ? One ..... Two..... Ten ! Some people just don't get it no matter how many times they are told. So with all that said, lets all sing along....... For it's one ,two, three strikes you're out at the old ball game !
GO BROWNS !!!
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Matt Prater is in Stage 3 of the NFL Substance Abuse Program, violates that by drinking on vacation, the NFL says well the letter of the law is 16 games, but just a few beers so we'll give him 4 games.
Josh Gordon commits the exact same violation of Stage 3 with a trace amount of weed, and hes suspended 16 games. The hammer. Now you can say weed and beer is different but not the way Stage 3 of NFL Substance Abuse Program is written, any violation is a violation and 16 games is mandatory. However with Matt Prater that was changed because "hey just a few beers on vacation" yet with Josh Gordon its "Nope, cant change the rule, it says 16 games and thats the way the CBA was written, sorry"
Why is that? Anyone want to take a stab at why Matt Prater less than a week ago was given 4 games for a Stage 3 violation and nobody has even mentioned it, and Josh Gordon is NFL enemy #1 and banned for a year for the exact same offense?Matt Prater is in Stage 3 of the NFL Substance Abuse Program, violates that by drinking on vacation, the NFL says well the letter of the law is 16 games, but just a few beers so we'll give him 4 games.
Josh Gordon commits the exact same violation of Stage 3 with a trace amount of weed, and hes suspended 16 games. The hammer. Now you can say weed and beer is different but not the way Stage 3 of NFL Substance Abuse Program is written, any violation is a violation and 16 games is mandatory. However with Matt Prater that was changed because "hey just a few beers on vacation" yet with Josh Gordon its "Nope, cant change the rule, it says 16 games and thats the way the CBA was written, sorry"
Why is that? Anyone want to take a stab at why Matt Prater less than a week ago was given 4 games for a Stage 3 violation and nobody has even mentioned it, and Josh Gordon is NFL enemy #1 and banned for a year for the exact same offense?
Maybe being white,might have something to do with it?
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In the end.....I think Josh got what he deserves...that wont change and I think there is a LOT of Union - NFL politics here that no one really understands or is talking about.....the NFL just followed the guideline, as they do in every case....oh and I also get that every case is different and each is weighed within the rules, so Rice and Prater have zero relevance to me....
So the case that is literally exactly the same as Gordon's has no relevance to you because it disproves your point?
Yup...exactly . If we are to believe he passed 70 tests since 1/13, that's a test about every 6 days until he popped hot. Considering masking agents can now be tested for, and dilution is considered a fail, its impossible for him to even smoke once without failing.....especially at 15ng/ml.So the case that is literally exactly the same as Gordon's has no relevance to you because it disproves your point?
And no mudfly....pot isn't illegal everywhere anymore. While federal law supersedes state law, states everywhere are putting up the middle finger at the feds....and the ATF allows it to happen despite a public hard line stance. Furthermore, let's not pretend the feds get everything right.
Pot is a schedule 1 drug. Cocaine is a schedule 2. So according to the feds, pot is worse than cocaine and has no medical benefit while cocaine does. In the immortal words of Bob saget...."I used to suck dick for coke. You ever suck dick for marijuana?". Alcohol kills more people every year than every other drug combined....innocent people as well as users. Yet, the feds allow you to buy it because the tax money is beneficial to them. People wanted it bad enough to resort to rum running, which cause the feds to overturn the law. Tell me that's not addiction.....
So I guess I'm asking why your a sheep regarding drug laws? I guess you took refer madness literally?
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Some folks just see it everywhere these days...
There's been a few... this one is up there.
... and you apparently based upon the rest of your post.
You and the NFL have both called him a liar. Do you have a basis for that? Has he been caught in a lie previously? I don't...
I didnt call him a liar....I said his history has given me no reason to believe him....or this could be the little boy who cried wolf, in reverse....who knows....
Here's what we dont know....It could be second hand smoke.....or he could have smoked.....
Is it possible some or many of those 70 passed tests were "almost" fails??? Could the NFL know he's been smoking all along, but "just" getting under the wire??? could they have THAT info or are you ASSUMING every test was 100% free of ANY trace?
If this was a first or second offense, it wouldnt matter.....but thats not Joshes fault either....I get it...
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you gotta ask diehard.
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A lot depends upon what he said was the actual exposure. Was he in a closed car with the ac or heater running while driving around an hour while friends smoked? Was he claiming he was at a party when someone lit up before he had a chance to get away? I certainly don't know what he said were the circumstances and I have not read it anywhere where he has described it. But I can say if he tried to blame it on something or someone not under his control, he's "just blowin' smoke". don't want to come up positive? Just leave or stop the car and take a taxi. No one can force you to breath secondhand MJ.
Do all alcoholics avoid friends who drink?
... don't want to come up positive? Just leave or stop the car and take a taxi. No one can force you to breath secondhand MJ.
It is also just possible that he has "been around it" all along and never registered a positive.
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Miktoxic,
StocktonShorts already brought up in detail within his original post about the difference between beer and drugs:
"Josh Gordon commits the exact same violation of Stage 3 with a trace amount of weed, and hes suspended 16 games. The hammer. Now you can say weed and beer is different but not the way Stage 3 of NFL Substance Abuse Program is written, any violation is a violation and 16 games is mandatory. However with Matt Prater that was changed because "hey just a few beers on vacation" yet with Josh Gordon its "Nope, cant change the rule, it says 16 games and thats the way the CBA was written, sorry"
Then he asks why the different sentences. I'm not a mind reader but I think the only difference between the two cases is one guy's black and one white. He could be right but I just think it's more about the illegal substance. Hopefully I didn't offend any one. Not my intention.
A 3 day meth binge sounds pretty good right about now however.
Miktoxic,
StocktonShorts already brought up in detail within his original post about the difference between beer and drugs:
"Josh Gordon commits the exact same violation of Stage 3 with a trace amount of weed, and hes suspended 16 games. The hammer. Now you can say weed and beer is different but not the way Stage 3 of NFL Substance Abuse Program is written, any violation is a violation and 16 games is mandatory. However with Matt Prater that was changed because "hey just a few beers on vacation" yet with Josh Gordon its "Nope, cant change the rule, it says 16 games and thats the way the CBA was written, sorry"
Then he asks why the different sentences. I'm not a mind reader but I think the only difference between the two cases is one guy's black and one white. He could be right but I just think it's more about the illegal substance. Hopefully I didn't offend any one. Not my intention.
A 3 day meth binge sounds pretty good right about now however.
Regardless of the legality of the two substances the CBA rules governing them in state 3 is the same. If one can be adjusted both can be adjusted plain and simple. I am the first to say Gordon needs a lot of help and a lot of growing up but I hope he sues the shit ouf of the NFL and wins. The manner in which the entire thing was handled is ridiculous.
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Had josh not lawyered up and dismissed any chance of a settlement, this would have not taken as long as it had. There wasn't anything wrong with how it was handled. Josh rolled the dice and lost....
Had josh not lawyered up and dismissed any chance of a settlement, this would have not taken as long as it had. There wasn't anything wrong with how it was handled. Josh rolled the dice and lost....
where do any of you see documentation of the fact that obtaining an attorney to challenge the suspension and discussing a settlement are mutually exclusive?? I have seen several people act like Josh made a mistake retaining and attorney. Seriously?????
"The four-game suspension, which is expected to be announced Monday, was part of an agreement reached between Prater's attorney, Harvey Steinberg, and the league, so an appeal is not expected. The NFL had initially threatened a one-year suspension."
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