O-line Grades Week 1
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A film watcher on twitter certainly disagrees
@Cianaf: McLendon destroyed Mack in this game. He did it in ways that makes me think he'd be a much better 3-4 DE for PIT. He can penetrate.
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Dogpound barking approval!
PS-I won't harp on Schwartz anymore unless he continues this grade through the next several games.
Thanks for taking the time to break this down for us Tour-I love line play too as the key to winning football, but I think you have me beat.
PS #2-exactly where do you live in the piney woods Tour? I was born trekking those woods as a boy scout. Lived in Beaumont until age 12 and went to the jungle woods of Venezuela from there. I once got "detained" at the American Embassy in Caracas for having a hunting knife on my belt. Damn East Texas hick! LOL
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A film watcher on twitter certainly disagrees
@Cianaf: McLendon destroyed Mack in this game. He did it in ways that makes me think he'd be a much better 3-4 DE for PIT. He can penetrate.
At least they're all positive numbers.
@Cianaf: McLendon destroyed Mack in this game. He did it in ways that makes me think he'd be a much better 3-4 DE for PIT. He can penetrate.
McLendon? "Destroyed" Mack? I never saw that happen...
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Awesome post
. There should a whole lot more of this here and less focus on all the damn drama/name calling (counts for rivals and other browns fans). Great post. Very pft of you.AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Love this post, and much respect for going through every single snap. Maybe others will be inspired to look in to other positions? Not me, I don't have the time or concentration levels!
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Love this post, and much respect for going through every single snap. Maybe others will be inspired to look in to other positions? Not me, I don't have the time or concentration levels!
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A film watcher on twitter certainly disagrees
@Cianaf: McLendon destroyed Mack in this game. He did it in ways that makes me think he'd be a much better 3-4 DE for PIT. He can penetrate.
A film watcher on twitter certainly disagrees
@Cianaf: McLendon destroyed Mack in this game. He did it in ways that makes me think he'd be a much better 3-4 DE for PIT. He can penetrate.
McClendon was really pushing the pocket and I would much prefer he played defensive end as well. As of now it's what the steelers have at nose tackle. I like McClendon but I really miss Hampton.
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A film watcher on twitter certainly disagrees
@Cianaf: McLendon destroyed Mack in this game. He did it in ways that makes me think he'd be a much better 3-4 DE for PIT. He can penetrate.
Thanks all... even you, Vag...
@Cianaf: McLendon destroyed Mack in this game. He did it in ways that makes me think he'd be a much better 3-4 DE for PIT. He can penetrate.
I don't think Mr. Twitter knows much about football. Stats don't make a case , but they should support one and McLendon's don't support Mr. Twitter's. But it is also possible that he doesn't know Mack is our center. In fairness, I paid little attention to which Steeler a given OL was matched up against, so it could be the same in Mr. Twitter's case.
The only time I can think of that came anywhere close to his description was the one time Mack actually had a chance to retreat to set up his pass protection. A Steeler big man (possibly McLendon) got up a head of steam and Mack struggled to stay out of Hoyer's lap... but he managed to... barely. I think it was the play when Hoyer nearly threw a pick to Allen in our 2nd to last series.
FYI... I lay the blame for the near INT on Austin, the intended target. He rounded an out route off so badly... like by 4 yards... that Allen had plenty of room to undercut it and make a diving try at what looked to be an underthrown ball. I think a WR born without ACLs could have cut harder.
Awesome post
. There should a whole lot more of this here and less focus on all the damn drama/name calling (counts for rivals and other browns fans). Great post. Very pft of you.That cuts both ways... but I appreciate the complement... even if you are still wrong about the 2nd-hand smoke.
As objective as I try to be, and I think I am as objective as anyone here (and more so than most), I'm still a Browns fan and therefore my Browns' opinions are subjective. In the end that impacts what I emphasize in forming an opinion and any subsequent debate... and I love a good debate.
Some drama/ name-calling is fun. Some of it is warranted. However, going "there" automatically every single time in response to every single post is tiresome.
I would, but no DVR or time really
The DVR is a godsend... I used to use a VCR. Now it's not exactly like having a coach's clicker... but it's a helluva lot closer.
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Final Grades
We ran 67 plays in 12 series in Week One.
Joe Thomas: +30 -4 net +26... Might be a B+ on the curve, but A- is as low as I'll go.
Joel Bitonio: +29 -15 net +14. The rookie made a couple rookie mistakes, but that trap was the day's prettiest play ... C
Alex Mack: +36 -4 net +32...... This week's curve buster gets an A+
John Greco: +29 -13 net +16.. Solid job... solid grade... C+
M. Schwartz: +24 -15 net +9... Mitchell elected to use his Pass/Fail option this week... P (would have been a D had he not)...Final Grades
We ran 67 plays in 12 series in Week One.
Joe Thomas: +30 -4 net +26... Might be a B+ on the curve, but A- is as low as I'll go.
Joel Bitonio: +29 -15 net +14. The rookie made a couple rookie mistakes, but that trap was the day's prettiest play ... C
Alex Mack: +36 -4 net +32...... This week's curve buster gets an A+
John Greco: +29 -13 net +16.. Solid job... solid grade... C+
M. Schwartz: +24 -15 net +9... Mitchell elected to use his Pass/Fail option this week... P (would have been a D had he not)...
Sounds more subjective to me than it claims to be.
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Awesome post
. There should a whole lot more of this here and less focus on all the damn drama/name calling (counts for rivals and other browns fans). Great post. Very pft of you.Awesome post
. There should a whole lot more of this here and less focus on all the damn drama/name calling (counts for rivals and other browns fans). Great post. Very pft of you.I don't call you names. I simply make accurate observations about you. When you are being frequently stupid I call you stupid. When you are being ignorant I call you ignorant. When you are correct on something I say you are correct. When you have a plausible argument I say you have a plausible argument.
YOU control the reaction that is made toward you. Don't be stupid, don't be ignorant, and you won't get called those things.
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Final Grades
We ran 67 plays in 12 series in Week One.
Joe Thomas: +30 -4 net +26... Might be a B+ on the curve, but A- is as low as I'll go.
Joel Bitonio: +29 -15 net +14. The rookie made a couple rookie mistakes, but that trap was the day's prettiest play ... C
Alex Mack: +36 -4 net +32...... This week's curve buster gets an A+
John Greco: +29 -13 net +16.. Solid job... solid grade... C+
M. Schwartz: +24 -15 net +9... Mitchell elected to use his Pass/Fail option this week... P (would have been a D had he not)...
Sounds more subjective to me than it claims to be.
Sounds more subjective to me than it claims to be.
Claims? Where? What claims?
The grading is subjective, but at a different level than the garden variety, "Fred played well, Bob played well, but Frank sucked," subjectivity.
In grading plays there are sometimes close calls in assigning individual play grades, e.g., "missed the block, but did it effect the outcome?"
The math is objective... because it's math...
The final translation to a letter grade is subjective to a degree, but given the totals I'd maintain it is true of the lower end only.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Gipper must not like how you graded Schwartz. LOL.
It sure would be interesting to see how the Browns staff graded out the O-line in comparison with yours. I wonder if there is a way to obtain that.
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No, to me, this sounds like it is based on observation....and observation is subjective, ergo, the statistic is subjective. Many statistics are just that way.
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Sounds more subjective to me than it claims to be.
Claims? Where? What claims?
The grading is subjective, but at a different level than the garden variety, "Fred played well, Bob played well, but Frank sucked," subjectivity.
In grading plays there are sometimes close calls in assigning individual play grades, e.g., "missed the block, but did it effect the outcome?"
The math is objective... because it's math...
The final translation to a letter grade is subjective to a degree, but given the totals I'd maintain it is true of the lower end only.
Claims? Where? What claims?
The grading is subjective, but at a different level than the garden variety, "Fred played well, Bob played well, but Frank sucked," subjectivity.
In grading plays there are sometimes close calls in assigning individual play grades, e.g., "missed the block, but did it effect the outcome?"
The math is objective... because it's math...
The final translation to a letter grade is subjective to a degree, but given the totals I'd maintain it is true of the lower end only.
The letter grading could be consistent, like a test in school. Positive plays divided by total plays and you'd get a percentage. By that standard Mack would land a 90%, which is an A- using 10 point increments for letter grades.
Not that it detracts as this is excellent work.
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No, to me, this sounds like it is based on observation....and observation is subjective, ergo, the statistic is subjective. Many statistics are just that way.
No, to me, this sounds like it is based on observation....and observation is subjective, ergo, the statistic is subjective. Many statistics are just that way.
I've tried it with my eyes closed... doesn't work as well.
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Statistics are NOT subjective in any way, that's the entire point.
Besides, the appropriate question would be to ask precisely where the grade demarcations are: What has to happen to be a +, what's a 0, what's a -.
Once the measurement methodology is defined, the analysis is sound... whether you like it or not.
If the method is repeatable and reproducible, it's legit.
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Statistics are NOT subjective in any way, that's the entire point.
Besides, the appropriate question would be to ask precisely where the grade demarcations are: What has to happen to be a +, what's a 0, what's a -.
Once the measurement methodology is defined, the analysis is sound... whether you like it or not.
If the method is repeatable and reproducible, it's legit.
Besides, the appropriate question would be to ask precisely where the grade demarcations are: What has to happen to be a +, what's a 0, what's a -.
I grade each OL for each play using:
'+' if assignment was achieved;
'0' if assignment was not critical to the play; or
'-' if assignment was not achieved.
If an assignment was key to the success or failure of a given play the above grade may be doubled.
The above are the guidelines I use. I have to infer the assignment as well as judge its achievement and criticality. For the vast majority of the evaluations, all three aspects are obvious at first look. Some take two looks. Some take three. The more looks, the less objective the evaluation will end up being.
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Tour2ma, thanks for the work you have put in, really interesting stuff. Over the years I have shifted my attention more and more to the O-Line on snaps to try and educate myself as to why plays pan out the way they do. Not being born and raised in the US I have never been schooled, via participation, in the finer points of O-Line assignments and their success or failure. When I am born again I hope its in North East Ohio and I'm big boned.
Howie.
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Tour2ma, thanks for the work you have put in, really interesting stuff. Over the years I have shifted my attention more and more to the O-Line on snaps to try and educate myself as to why plays pan out the way they do. Not being born and raised in the US I have never been schooled, via participation, in the finer points of O-Line assignments and their success or failure. When I am born again I hope its in North East Ohio and I'm big boned.
Howie.
Tour2ma, thanks for the work you have put in, really interesting stuff.
..+1....
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