If Brian Hoyer never got injured.. Would Banner and Co. still be here?

Westside Steve

I doubt it.

I don't blame Brandon Weeden or Jason Campbell for the defence sucking as badly as it did last year or the absolute absence of a running game or the stellar play of bess and little. It's not Brian Hoyers fireworks winning any of these games, it's the addition of three above average backs and a very good guard which facilitates the running game.

WSS

Comeonman

@westside-steve said:

I doubt it.

I don't blame Brandon Weeden or Jason Campbell for the defence sucking as badly as it did last year or the absolute absence of a running game or the stellar play of bess and little. It's not Brian Hoyers fireworks winning any of these games, it's the addition of three above average backs and a very good guard which facilitates the running game.

WSS

Exactly. Let me be the bad guy here and remind everyone that Hoyer's skill set is one of a backup QB in the NFL. Our running game has seen significant improvement, and that is why we beat the Saints. Hoyer did nothing special, and would have been picked off had we played against a good secondary.

BTW if those two idiots were still around, we would have seen Manziel or twatwater at 4 with no extra first rounder

The Gipper

@comeonman said:

Exactly. Let me be the bad guy here and remind everyone that Hoyer's skill set is one of a backup QB in the NFL. Our running game has seen significant improvement, and that is why we beat the Saints. Hoyer did nothing special, and would have been picked off had we played against a good secondary.

BTW if those two idiots were still around, we would have seen Manziel or twatwater at 4 with no extra first rounder

I think it may be too early to tell if Hoyer's skill set is that of a backup or not. In year's past it was believed that it took a QB about 5 years to develop into a starting NFL QB. That changed when early round draft picks, expecially QBs began making piles of cash.

Hoyer is in his 6th season now. His chance to be a starter came last year in his 5th year, but injuries curtailed that. The guy many are comparing him to is Brian Sipe. He too did not become a starter until his 5th season. So, for each of those guys, a 4-5 year "training period" became necessary. And who knows, perhaps Hoyer will have a Brian Sipe career.

But no, he hasn't been a Dan Marino, proven to be a quality starter from day one in the league.. But that does not mean he cannot become a quality starter from Day 1826 in the league. Others have. And you cannot hold the fact that Sipe was drafted and Hoyer was not, as Sipe was a 13th rounder, the 330th pick. Today only about 250 draft picks are made, so Hoyer probably would have been drafted had there been that many rounds.

Westside Steve

Trent Dilfer and Rex Grossman are Super Bowl quarterbacks.

Neither one good elevate a bad or mediocre team to the upper echelon.

WSS

The Gipper

@westside-steve said:

Trent Dilfer and Rex Grossman are Super Bowl quarterbacks.

Neither one good elevate a bad or mediocre team to the upper echelon.

WSS

David Woodley, Stan Humphries, Joe Kapp, Vince Ferragamo, Chris Miller, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Tony Eason....none of them are going down in history in the pantheon of great QBs either.

Westside Steve

And if Brian Hoyer takes us to a Superbowl great.

WSS

Westside Steve

Eli Manning?

WSS

gftChris

@westside-steve said:

Eli Manning?

WSS

Joe Flacco?

The Gipper

@westside-steve said:

Eli Manning?

WSS

I would put Eli on a much higher rung on the QB ladder than the others mentioned. He was instrumental in 2 SB wins, plus his overall career stats pretty much far exceed all those others in terms of completions, TDs etc etc.

Comeonman

@westside-steve said:

And if Brian Hoyer takes us to a Superbowl great.

WSS

uuummmmm.... Yes please

Manzier

Based on history, "if" he won a Super Bowl, he would go from good/average pro to HOFer god in a blink of an eye. There are so many QB's who won SB's and weren't really that great statistically. If you go by QB rating, it's pretty clear. FWIW Hoyers lifetime rating is 80.

Top 5 SB winner lifetime ratings: Rodgers 104, P. Manning 97, Young 97, Brady 95 and Brees 95

Worst 5 SB winner lifetime ratings: Namath 65, Plunkett 67, Williams, 69, Dilfer 70, Bradshaw 71

In fact, Bradshaw had a lower lifetime rating than Grossman does. Now THAT is funny.

The top 5 are clearly all-time great QB's, because they won their whole careers and performed well always. But beyond that group, the rest of the SB winners had fairly standard pro careers statistically and average passer ratings. Granted, they won when it counted. Cant take that away. But a lot of them just benefitted from being on great teams.

With the right team, no doubt Hoyer could win one.

ballpeen

If frogs had wings, would they be able to fly?

I guess what I am saying is, nobody knows.

Tour2ma

Zombo said:

Chud might have stayed, but Banner and Bardi would have bickered their way out of town sooner or later.

I am liking Pettine and wanted Farmer all along, so glad it worked out the way it did.

Chud stays for sure as 7-9 or better would have shown progress.
I see Banner gone as he was almost forced upon Haslam by the league. While Jimmah may be not be full-blown "Jerrah hands-on" type, he's not a full arm's-length guy... and Banner was an arm-length plus between Jimmah and control of his new business...
Lombo might have stayed by virtue of the TR fleecing of the Colts alone, but... Wasn't it Lombo that wanted Hoyer in Cleveland?
Which means Farmer would be in South Beach...

Makes last year's pain completely worth it...

@westside-steve said:

I doubt it.

I don't blame Brandon Weeden or Jason Campbell for the defence sucking as badly as it did last year or the absolute absence of a running game or the stellar play of bess and little. It's not Brian Hoyers fireworks winning any of these games, it's the addition of three above average backs and a very good guard which facilitates the running game.

Who were Hoyer's RB's in his two wins? His WRs?

I hear you, much better team this year, but the total of Brian's decision making plus his play-action skills far exceed any QB he's rostered with since he's been a Brown.

I think we'd have won more in 2013 with him for 14 starts.

The Gipper

@manzier said:

Based on history, "if" he won a Super Bowl, he would go from good/average pro to HOFer god in a blink of an eye. There are so many QB's who won SB's and weren't really that great statistically. If you go by QB rating, it's pretty clear. FWIW Hoyers lifetime rating is 80.

Top 5 SB winner lifetime ratings: Rodgers 104, P. Manning 97, Young 97, Brady 95 and Brees 95

Worst 5 SB winner lifetime ratings: Namath 65, Plunkett 67, Williams, 69, Dilfer 70, Bradshaw 71

In fact, Bradshaw had a lower lifetime rating than Grossman does. Now THAT is funny.

The top 5 are clearly all-time great QB's, because they won their whole careers and performed well always. But beyond that group, the rest of the SB winners had fairly standard pro careers statistically and average passer ratings. Granted, they won when it counted. Cant take that away. But a lot of them just benefitted from being on great teams.

With the right team, no doubt Hoyer could win one.

The "passer rating" system is a bit bogus because it indeed elevates players that are part of a system of play. Look at the Top 20 in the passer rating system:

1 Aaron Rodgers 104.93

2 Peyton Manning 97.22

3 Steve Young* 96.81

4 Philip Rivers 95.97

5 Tony Romo 95.78

6 Tom Brady 95.73

7 Drew Brees 95.26

8 Kurt Warner 93.71

9 Ben Roethlisberger 92.59

10 Joe Montana* 92.26

11 Matt Ryan 90.63

12 Chad Pennington 90.14

13 Matt Schaub 89.78

14 Daunte Culpepper 87.78

15 Jeff Garcia 87.54

16 Dan Marino* 86.38

17T Trent Green 86.03

17T Brett Favre 86.03

19 Carson Palmer 85.90

20 David Garrard 85.86 -

Half of them are active. All but a couple had their careers in the 90s or later. Passer rating fits only the current system, it cannot judge the quality of pre-1990 QBs.