Mingo
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He's all over the field but never where he should be. Never the guy making the initial tackle. Gets pushed around. He was the "freak athlete" pick like JPP. At least JPP had one good year.
Not ready to give up on him yet, but he's been really disappointing so far.
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I questioned Mingo's tackling (or lack of) prior to the draft & I have seen literally NO improvement. At this point, I tend to agree with Gipper, but I don't agree with many about his lack of strength & size as he is 6'5" 241 lbs. Conversely, Jack Lambert was 6'4" & 220 lbs. Mingo is simply a HORRIBLE tackler, a "grabber", & arm tackles won't stop anybody in the NFL. I love his athleticism, but he HAS to improve his technique.
Just an old guy's opinion.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
For me I see a lack of discipline. He's starting year 2 of a new position he literally never saw at LSU. So instead of playing within himself and the defense, he's constantly in attack mode to make up for the fact he's accustomed to making plays.
It's extremely difficult to play your entire career with your hand in the ground and told to either get after the ball carrier or get after the QB - compared to now, where he's being asked to maintain a cut back cap assignment, not get too far upfield, read for a check down leak and drop into a flat or curl zone.
For anyone that was expecting consistent play before year 3, then you've honestly never seen DE's jump from college to the pro.
The only reason Von miller was so successful early on is that he was accustomed to the joker position at A&M. Aldon Smith mostly had his hand in the ground and was a total liability against the run his first two years. I see those same traits with Mingo. It takes time. Lots of time.
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why are we grading Mingo on tackling? All OLB'ers in the 3-4 will make the tackles from behind because that's the position their put in. Kruger's been doing the same why is no one thinking about that? If you're an OLB'er and doing your job in run defense, you've held up at the point and if the runner goes to the outside you lunge at him to push him wide, if he goes inside you release off your blocker and try to dive at his back. Just trip him up in some way. OLB'ers are not expected to meet the runners in the hole, why are all of you missing that? You know who's responsibility it is to meet the runners in the hole and blow them up? The ILB'ers...which on our team mean Karlos Dansby and Christian Kirksey. Both of whom have been getting gashed by RB's so far this season. I'd let it slide if the name Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles was in there somewhere...but we've had 2nd, 3rd and annoyingly, a 4th stringer last sunday, blow us the fuck up. Dansby is not who we hoped he would be up to this point. So far DQ is having a better season in Indy it looks like, and I don't think that defense is as loaded as ours is..especially with Mathis out.
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He's all over the field but never where he should be. Never the guy making the initial tackle. Gets pushed around. He was the "freak athlete" pick like JPP. At least JPP had one good year.
Not ready to give up on him yet, but he's been really disappointing so far.
He's all over the field but never where he should be. Never the guy making the initial tackle. Gets pushed around. He was the "freak athlete" pick like JPP. At least JPP had one good year.
Not ready to give up on him yet, but he's been really disappointing so far.
You are correct. He can get ANYWHERE on the field with his atheltic ability. But the teams we face use that against him. He seems like he has NOOOOOOOOOO idea what a defensive concept is. He lamost plays "kill the guy with the ball" But in the NFL the guy with the ball is usauly going the other way
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well get the trade thing outta your head cuz pettine and o'brien coveted this guy when they were in buffallo so.......
the whole new scheme thing every other year has got to have a negative effect on everyone.
why does it have to be a specific scheme? let these guys play where and how they feel comfortable.
quit trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
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well get the trade thing outta your head cuz pettine and o'brien coveted this guy when they were in buffallo so.......
the whole new scheme thing every other year has got to have a negative effect on everyone.
why does it have to be a specific scheme? let these guys play where and how they feel comfortable.
quit trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
well get the trade thing outta your head cuz pettine and o'brien coveted this guy when they were in buffallo so.......
the whole new scheme thing every other year has got to have a negative effect on everyone.
why does it have to be a specific scheme? let these guys play where and how they feel comfortable.
quit trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
What hole does Mingo fill?
He is obviously NOT doing well in the defense we are running now. And he didn't work well in the defense they ran last year
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ok trade him for what? one year under chud (who suckz ballz) and 3 games under pettine and the guy's a bum?
c'mon man.
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ok trade him for what? one year under chud (who suckz ballz) and 3 games under pettine and the guy's a bum?
c'mon man.
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I questioned Mingo's tackling (or lack of) prior to the draft & I have seen literally NO improvement. At this point, I tend to agree with Gipper, but I don't agree with many about his lack of strength & size as he is 6'5" 241 lbs. Conversely, Jack Lambert was 6'4" & 220 lbs. Mingo is simply a HORRIBLE tackler, a "grabber", & arm tackles won't stop anybody in the NFL. I love his athleticism, but he HAS to improve his technique.
Just an old guy's opinion.
Mike
Just an old guy's opinion.
The best kind of opinions...
IMO...
You are correct. He can get ANYWHERE on the field with his atheltic ability.
For me I see a lack of discipline.
The only reason Von miller was so successful early on is that he was accustomed to the joker position at A&M.
Agree on the discipline angle. I doubt Les asked him to do much at LSU beyond raise hell and react.
While I think Mingo is "athletic", he earns that description due to his speed and acceleration.
I think Miller makes for an interesting comparison. I think Von came into the league stronger and better proportioned with more agility than Mingo. I think Von's agility makes him the better athelete.
Both players had similar combine results in dash times (identical at 10 yds), identical verticals and close standing broads. So if you believe in those things, both are close in "explosiveness".
But Von smoked Barky in the shuttle and came close to doing the same in the 3-cone. I think the agility these show has led Von to greater early success in the NFL as much as anything.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70987&draftyear=2011&genpos=olb
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89707&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
His attempt at a spin move to get to Flacco on Sunday was embarrassing, was on his arse within seconds. Weak as shit!
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insanity.
you have all lost your minds.
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why are we grading Mingo on tackling? All OLB'ers in the 3-4 will make the tackles from behind because that's the position their put in. Kruger's been doing the same why is no one thinking about that? If you're an OLB'er and doing your job in run defense, you've held up at the point and if the runner goes to the outside you lunge at him to push him wide, if he goes inside you release off your blocker and try to dive at his back. Just trip him up in some way. OLB'ers are not expected to meet the runners in the hole, why are all of you missing that? You know who's responsibility it is to meet the runners in the hole and blow them up? The ILB'ers...which on our team mean Karlos Dansby and Christian Kirksey. Both of whom have been getting gashed by RB's so far this season. I'd let it slide if the name Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles was in there somewhere...but we've had 2nd, 3rd and annoyingly, a 4th stringer last sunday, blow us the fuck up. Dansby is not who we hoped he would be up to this point. So far DQ is having a better season in Indy it looks like, and I don't think that defense is as loaded as ours is..especially with Mathis out.
why are we grading Mingo on tackling? All OLB'ers in the 3-4 will make the tackles from behind because that's the position their put in. Kruger's been doing the same why is no one thinking about that? If you're an OLB'er and doing your job in run defense, you've held up at the point and if the runner goes to the outside you lunge at him to push him wide, if he goes inside you release off your blocker and try to dive at his back. Just trip him up in some way. OLB'ers are not expected to meet the runners in the hole, why are all of you missing that? You know who's responsibility it is to meet the runners in the hole and blow them up? The ILB'ers...which on our team mean Karlos Dansby and Christian Kirksey. Both of whom have been getting gashed by RB's so far this season. I'd let it slide if the name Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles was in there somewhere...but we've had 2nd, 3rd and annoyingly, a 4th stringer last sunday, blow us the fuck up. Dansby is not who we hoped he would be up to this point. So far DQ is having a better season in Indy it looks like, and I don't think that defense is as loaded as ours is..especially with Mathis out.
Yeah totally agree buy a huge part of being a defensive player is the ability to tackle no matter what position you are.
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Just an old guy's opinion.
The best kind of opinions...
IMO...
You are correct. He can get ANYWHERE on the field with his atheltic ability.
For me I see a lack of discipline.
The only reason Von miller was so successful early on is that he was accustomed to the joker position at A&M.
Agree on the discipline angle. I doubt Les asked him to do much at LSU beyond raise hell and react.
While I think Mingo is "athletic", he earns that description due to his speed and acceleration.
I think Miller makes for an interesting comparison. I think Von came into the league stronger and better proportioned with more agility than Mingo. I think Von's agility makes him the better athelete.
Both players had similar combine results in dash times (identical at 10 yds), identical verticals and close standing broads. So if you believe in those things, both are close in "explosiveness".
But Von smoked Barky in the shuttle and came close to doing the same in the 3-cone. I think the agility these show has led Von to greater early success in the NFL as much as anything.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70987&draftyear=2011&genpos=olb
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89707&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB
The best kind of opinions...
IMO...
Agree on the discipline angle. I doubt Les asked him to do much at LSU beyond raise hell and react.
While I think Mingo is "athletic", he earns that description due to his speed and acceleration.
I think Miller makes for an interesting comparison. I think Von came into the league stronger and better proportioned with more agility than Mingo. I think Von's agility makes him the better athelete.
Both players had similar combine results in dash times (identical at 10 yds), identical verticals and close standing broads. So if you believe in those things, both are close in "explosiveness".
But Von smoked Barky in the shuttle and came close to doing the same in the 3-cone. I think the agility these show has led Von to greater early success in the NFL as much as anything.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70987&draftyear=2011&genpos=olb
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89707&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB
Yea, but remember, a lot of Von Miller's performance was "enhanced".
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The best kind of opinions...
IMO...
Agree on the discipline angle. I doubt Les asked him to do much at LSU beyond raise hell and react.
While I think Mingo is "athletic", he earns that description due to his speed and acceleration.
I think Miller makes for an interesting comparison. I think Von came into the league stronger and better proportioned with more agility than Mingo. I think Von's agility makes him the better athelete.
Both players had similar combine results in dash times (identical at 10 yds), identical verticals and close standing broads. So if you believe in those things, both are close in "explosiveness".
But Von smoked Barky in the shuttle and came close to doing the same in the 3-cone. I think the agility these show has led Von to greater early success in the NFL as much as anything.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70987&draftyear=2011&genpos=olb
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89707&draftyear=2013&genpos=OLB
Yea, but remember, a lot of Von Miller's performance was "enhanced".
Yea, but remember, a lot of Von Miller's performance was "enhanced".
I do not believe I exaggerated one iota...
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He's all over the field but never where he should be. Never the guy making the initial tackle. Gets pushed around. He was the "freak athlete" pick like JPP. At least JPP had one good year.
Not ready to give up on him yet, but he's been really disappointing so far.
I agree, but would cut ties with him now.He's all over the field but never where he should be. Never the guy making the initial tackle. Gets pushed around. He was the "freak athlete" pick like JPP. At least JPP had one good year.
Not ready to give up on him yet, but he's been really disappointing so far.
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Courtney Brown.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
why are we grading Mingo on tackling? All OLB'ers in the 3-4 will make the tackles from behind because that's the position their put in. Kruger's been doing the same why is no one thinking about that? If you're an OLB'er and doing your job in run defense, you've held up at the point and if the runner goes to the outside you lunge at him to push him wide, if he goes inside you release off your blocker and try to dive at his back. Just trip him up in some way. OLB'ers are not expected to meet the runners in the hole, why are all of you missing that? You know who's responsibility it is to meet the runners in the hole and blow them up? The ILB'ers...which on our team mean Karlos Dansby and Christian Kirksey. Both of whom have been getting gashed by RB's so far this season. I'd let it slide if the name Adrian Peterson or Jamaal Charles was in there somewhere...but we've had 2nd, 3rd and annoyingly, a 4th stringer last sunday, blow us the fuck up. Dansby is not who we hoped he would be up to this point. So far DQ is having a better season in Indy it looks like, and I don't think that defense is as loaded as ours is..especially with Mathis out.
Yeah totally agree buy a huge part of being a defensive player is the ability to tackle no matter what position you are.
Well he tackles just fine when he's there to make the tackle. My point was that against the run his job is to seal the outside and funnel everything in. Last year he had a big problem with that, doesn't seem to be "too bad" this year...although obviously the other two guys are gonna be the big run stoppers. When Mingo is in his job should be to pass rush and cover guys out of the backfield or blanket some TE's....and be passable in run defense. Against run heavy teams Mingo should not be on the field on 1st and 2nd downs much...he should come in on 3rd downs or otherwise passing situations. But asking our OLB'ers to make plays against the run on the inside is ridiculous and gonna get them or one of our lineman hurt by them crashing down into the pile. Like I mentioned last sunday I saw kruger trying to desperately spin to the inside to make a play on the runner who was going inside of the tackle every time and getting big yards. That's putting himself out of position and potentially leading to an injury. Releasing off your guy and diving at the back of a runner is one thing, but to try to get infront of the runner after you've sealed the outside is absolutely not something you want your edges doing. That's when a good RB will bounce and now you're looking at huge yards.
Our lack of run defense is in some part on the defensive line, but in MOST part the ILB'ers. I don't know why all of you are so hesitant to call out Dansby for this. He's the defensive captain....he should be drooling in people's faces he's so mad about a 4th stringer making them look stupid.
Yeah totally agree buy a huge part of being a defensive player is the ability to tackle no matter what position you are.
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A little publication fodder for the thread...
Browns: Barkevious Mingo not being asked to rush passer
BEREA, Ohio -- Barkevious Mingo has been on the field for 101 defensive snaps this season and has no tackles for a loss and no sacks.
But that does not concern the Browns, assistant linebackers coach Brian Fleury said.
Fleury, in fact, said he’s pleased with Mingo.
“We’re asking him to do some different things than what he did last year," Fleury said. “When you guys watch the film, he’s in coverage a lot more than he is going after the quarterback. I know there’ve been some questions as to why the sack numbers aren’t there, and I think it’s just simply a reflection of the amount of reps he’s had rushing the quarterback relative to everybody else. We’re happy with where he is and the production he’s given us.”
Fleury added that on many plays Mingo isn’t being asked to get a sack or get into the backfield. Coach Mike Pettine constantly discusses mismatches, and clearly the Browns are trying to create one by using Mingo different from a year ago.
In the opener, it appeared the Browns wanted Mingo to rush the passer. He rushed often and came close to sacking Ben Roethlisberger on a touchdown pass, but Roethlisberger avoided the sack.
Against Baltimore, it appeared Mingo was dropped into coverage more.
“He’s a remarkably talented athlete,” Fleury said. “He can run like the wind and cover a lot of the guys that maybe some of the other guys can’t cover. So we’re doing everything we can to take advantage of that.
“He creates a unique mismatch because you don’t know whether to identify him as a coverage linebacker or a rush end. We’ve just been using him a little bit more in the coverage phase so far.”
Pettine admitted Mingo is "battling the shoulder," referring to an injury that kept Mingo out of the win over New Orleans. Pettine added that although there's always room for improvement, Mingo is "doing his job" when he's on the field.
"I don’t get caught up in the statistical part of it," Pettine said. "I’ve seen too many guys over the years, especially defensively, get criticized. Like, 'Hey, why isn’t this guy playing well?' Just because it’s not on the stat sheet doesn’t mean they’re not doing their job. We’re more concerned with a plus on the grade sheet based on our standards than anything that would show up in a game book post game."
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/8295/browns-mingo-not-being-asked-to-rush-passer
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