A case for Chris Simms
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I like Boston...been there for many meetings over the years...though it can be a bit cold this time of year.
I won't argue the commit deal...and touched on that in another thread you probably just read.
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@shepwrite said:
I'm in Boston this week. Beautiful day, actually.Nah, it's fackin' cold.
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@shepwrite said:
Suggesting that Simms could beat out Quinn is clearly throwing in the towel on your first round franchise quarterback before he even gets a chance to prove himself, right? Anybody encouraged by that notion?Not necessarily...presumably Quinn could, theoretically, be beaten out. I mean, it might take getting Jesus to come out of retirement, but there is a possibility.
The Browns have cut Dorsey, and will probably trade Anderson. Although I hate going out on a limb, I would put the odds at about 55-60% that they look to sign or trade for another QB on the roster before the season starts. I know, it's like ordering a hamburger when the waiter's aready bringing you a filet mignon, but a lot of teams like to have two QBs on the roster (even though none of them have Quinn, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison).
I like the idea of bringing in a #2 QB who could be a #1--even if that ain't Simms. Otherwise, are you suggesting that the Browns bring in a #2 who sucks, so as not to admit even the possibility that they might need him? Who would that be? Bring Dorsey back? Mike Pagel? Stephen Hawking?
Dennis
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Stephen Hawking?
LOL....he would understand the playbook for sure....though he might have a hard time calling out plays and wouldn't be very mobile.
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Yeah, you're right; it's not that bad.
[resuming morning crankiness]
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Stephen Hawking?
LOL....he would understand the playbook for sure....though he might have a hard time calling out plays and wouldn't be very mobile.
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He would be a great backup.
If Quinn implodes for some reason he would be servicable as a starter until smoeone else could be found. They guy played half a game with a ruptured spleen... and almost pulled out a comeback victory against the Panthers.
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He would be a great backup.
If Quinn implodes for some reason he would be servicable as a starter until smoeone else could be found. They guy played half a game with a ruptured spleen... and almost pulled out a comeback victory against the Panthers.
He would be a great backup.
If Quinn implodes for some reason he would be servicable as a starter until smoeone else could be found. They guy played half a game with a ruptured spleen... and almost pulled out a comeback victory against the Panthers.
All i'M SAYING IS.... i WANT A CAPABLE BACKUP...I f I have to watch the talent level of Dorsey ever again will be too soon...I'm not sold on Quinn like most on this board....the dude has zero Nfl resume to date...3 games and quarter won't get you a cup of coffee...He may turn out great and all for it... but what happens if he gets hurt or just plain sheots the bed??? Gimmie Simms, hell if you twist hard enough I'll take grossman.
hate to say it to all you...pink shirt #10 wearer's..................
Our best move may even be keeping DA
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Here are two QB's career stats in the NFL in their three most active years:
QB A: 2004: 5 games, 42-73 (57.5%), 467 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT (64.1 QB Rating)
2005: 11 games, 191-313 (61.0%), 2,035 yards, 10 TD, 7 INT (81.4 QB Rating)
2006: 3 games, 58-106 (54.7%), 585 yards, 1 TD, 7 INT (46.3 QB Rating)
Career Stats: 19 games 291-492 (59.1%), 3,087 yards, 12 TD, 17 INT (71.2 QB Rating)
QB B: 2006: 5 games, 66-117 (56.4%), 793 yards, 5 TD, 8 INT (63.1 QB Rating)
2007: 16 games, 298-527 (56.5%), 3787 yards, 29 TD, 19 INT (82.5 QB Rating)
2008: 10 games, 142-283 (50.2%), 1615 yards, 9 TD, 8 INT (66.5 QB Rating)
Career Stats: 31 games, 506-927 (54.6%), 43 TD, 35 INT (75.1 QB Rating)
QB A is Chris Simms. QB B is Derek Anderson.
So, aside from the fact that he got hurt once and kept playing, what about Simms' career makes him an appealing candidate?
Dennis
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AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
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AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
I agree that he might be a good backup, but your post implies competition for Quinn and 'if he can't beat him out'. It's really quite simple to read what you wrote.
If that isn't what you meant, then perhaps you should work on delivering the message properly, instead of attacking anyone who disagrees with you on the basis of what you wrote.
Learn to deliver the message properly and grow up. You'd be surprised how far it may take you.
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AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
Pedigree is useless, unless you're a Manning...which QBs in the league right now have dads who played in the NFL? Brady? Roethliisberger?
The great mentor--I'm assuming you mean Gruden--was so impressed with his upside that he cut him, after which there wasn't exactly a race to see who could sign him the fastest. Tennessee picked him up, then cut him to sign a punter. Again, no rush to sign him. Where's the upside? Why are there rumors about teams being interested in trading for Anderson, when they can get Simms for nothing?
At this point, I absolutely would say to hang on to DA rather than sign Simms as the backup. However, the best case scenario is to wait and see who else becomes available, see what happens in the draft and into June...trust me, if the team wants Simms, he's going to be available whenever they decide to bring someone in.
Dennis
And yes, I know I misspelled a name in the post...it was intentional to avoid that Retarded "masking" program.
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oldcow1945 said:
Hey d bag?Well, I see having a debate with Solon is no longer worth my while.
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. But it's obvious you can't do it without making it personal. Never did I once attack you personally. Only with the idea of Simms beating out Quinn for the starting job.
It doesn't take long for a lot of people to show what kind of person they are.
The reason I love this board is the intelligence is higher than so many boards. The guys and girls like you are few and far between. But you sir, are an exception.
When I say he was benched after the second game, I meant in totality. I meant he left and was never back again. Never off the bench to start again....Which would never happen with a true starter unless it's a Tom brady situation. TB never had a QB and even after Simms healed they wanted no part of him.
None the less, You said Simms would be a guy that may even beat Quinn out....I think I read it well. As I said before, If that happens you may as well cut Quinn now.
You didn't debate..... you threw completely false info about him not beating out other QB's when he in FACT was the starter and got them to the playoffs as a starter then busted his spleen and hasn't played since! What debate?
You didn't debate..... you threw completely false info about him not beating out other QB's when he in FACT was the starter and got them to the playoffs as a starter then busted his spleen and hasn't played since! What debate?
The information I put out is correct.
In 2003 he was the Bucs last pick of the 3rd round and was third on the depth chart the entire season behin Brad Johnson and Shaun King.
In 2004 he was again the third string Qb behind Johnson and Brian Griese.
In 2005 he was 2nd on the depth chart behind Griese and ahead of Luke McCown
Griese got hurt and Simms played in 10 games that year.
He then started the first two games of 2006, looked horrible, was then hurt and has never been a starter since.
In about 5 years of active duty he has started 12 games....All but two of them due to injury to the starter Brian Griese.
How did I not state facts? He obvioulsy spent the first three years not being able to beat out a variety of Qb's...Brad Johnson, Shaun King and Brian Griese.
His move up to the starting spot for 10 games in 2005 was due to Griese's injury. Not because the Bucs thought he was the best QB on the roster.
You are right though....There is no debate when the facts are written down in the history books.
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AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
Actually, I would rather see J.P. Losman as a backup. He is younger, healthier, more mobile, has much more experience starting. Has thrown 33 Td's to Simms 17 and has a higher career qb rating. The only year the Bills allowed him to start all 16 games he threw 19 TD's and had a 85 Qb rating for a bad 7-9 Bills team..
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AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
Actually, I would rather see J.P. Losman as a backup. He is younger, healthier, more mobile, has much more experience starting. Has thrown 33 Td's to Simms 17 and has a higher career qb rating. The only year the Bills allowed him to start all 16 games he threw 19 TD's and had a 85 Qb rating for a bad 7-9 Bills team..
oldcow1945 said:
Actually, I would rather see J.P. Losman as a backup. He is younger, healthier, more mobile, has much more experience starting. Has thrown 33 Td's to Simms 17 and has a higher career qb rating. The only year the Bills allowed him to start all 16 games he threw 19 TD's and had a 85 Qb rating for a bad 7-9 Bills team..Disagreements abound......fact is We have to acquire a Veteran QB as a backup....I'll take losman and I'll even take grossman...the pickens are slim. I think Simms is a solid vet backup! But in the end I think noone wants to give up what it will take to get DA or we end up keeping him. And he may end up or starter ....again!
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AS backup what doesn't? He's taken his team to the playoffs, has pedigree, has a great mentor, knows what it takes , is young with good upside. who do you want dency? whose your Choice ? want to keep DA? you want leftwich? How about Kyle Boller?
Pedigree is useless, unless you're a Manning...which QBs in the league right now have dads who played in the NFL? Brady? Roethliisberger?
The great mentor--I'm assuming you mean Gruden--was so impressed with his upside that he cut him, after which there wasn't exactly a race to see who could sign him the fastest. Tennessee picked him up, then cut him to sign a punter. Again, no rush to sign him. Where's the upside? Why are there rumors about teams being interested in trading for Anderson, when they can get Simms for nothing?
At this point, I absolutely would say to hang on to DA rather than sign Simms as the backup. However, the best case scenario is to wait and see who else becomes available, see what happens in the draft and into June...trust me, if the team wants Simms, he's going to be available whenever they decide to bring someone in.
Dennis
And yes, I know I misspelled a name in the post...it was intentional to avoid that Retarded "masking" program.
Pedigree is useless, unless you're a Manning...which QBs in the league right now have dads who played in the NFL? Brady? Roethliisberger?
The great mentor--I'm assuming you mean Gruden--was so impressed with his upside that he cut him, after which there wasn't exactly a race to see who could sign him the fastest. Tennessee picked him up, then cut him to sign a punter. Again, no rush to sign him. Where's the upside? Why are there rumors about teams being interested in trading for Anderson, when they can get Simms for nothing?
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well teams aren't exacly always right. Kurt Warner was undrafted and played in NFL europe. How many teams did Brad Johnson play for before winning a superbowl with Tampa? Tom Brady was drafted in WHAT round? Collins, for Tennessee, has played for many teams, cut many times, and was not a high demand player.
Gruden started just about a different QB every year he was in Tampa.
Simms would most likely come cheaper than Anderson.
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Simms isn't that attractive unless he comes for CHEAP. I still think Anderson will be traded, simply 'cause the owner wants tickets sold and there's a bunch of idiots who'll threaten not to buy if he's the starter, then bring in an experienced QB on the downside of his career to "mentor" and "compete" with Quinn, only to beat him out and be the Brown's QB for a year or two before either retiring or being cut, leaving the Browns with yet again another question mark at the position.
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Simms isn't that attractive unless he comes for CHEAP. I still think Anderson will be traded, simply 'cause the owner wants tickets sold and there's a bunch of idiots who'll threaten not to buy if he's the starter, then bring in an experienced QB on the downside of his career to "mentor" and "compete" with Quinn, only to beat him out and be the Brown's QB for a year or two before either retiring or being cut, leaving the Browns with yet again another question mark at the position.
Simms isn't that attractive unless he comes for CHEAP. I still think Anderson will be traded, simply 'cause the owner wants tickets sold and there's a bunch of idiots who'll threaten not to buy if he's the starter, then bring in an experienced QB on the downside of his career to "mentor" and "compete" with Quinn, only to beat him out and be the Brown's QB for a year or two before either retiring or being cut, leaving the Browns with yet again another question mark at the position.
OK...which FA vet qb would you go after? we definetly need one if we go ahead and get rid of DA.
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Simms isn't that attractive unless he comes for CHEAP. I still think Anderson will be traded, simply 'cause the owner wants tickets sold and there's a bunch of idiots who'll threaten not to buy if he's the starter, then bring in an experienced QB on the downside of his career to "mentor" and "compete" with Quinn, only to beat him out and be the Brown's QB for a year or two before either retiring or being cut, leaving the Browns with yet again another question mark at the position.
OK...which FA vet qb would you go after? we definetly need one if we go ahead and get rid of DA.
OK...which FA vet qb would you go after? we definetly need one if we go ahead and get rid of DA.
Simms is a GREAT idea Solon. I think we can get him at humble prices and there's something about a guy that wants to prove he still has it. See Kurt Warner when everyone wrote him off after he got replaced in NY. If that doesn't work, see how many times Kerry Collins' career as a starter has been pronounced dead.
I don't know about anyone else but I just FREAKIN watched Gradkowski and Dorsey struggle to throw passes beyond the line of scrimmage when there was wind. And I don't feel like saying FREAKIN. And Dumb Ass reads a defense like he's got Ronnie Milsap's eyesight and Mike Tyson's IQ. Enough already! You don't trade up to DRAFT a QB in the same part of round 1 where the Dolphins drafted Dan Marino only to shift gears and commit to the NEXT Scot Mitchell instead. Comeon! Do you know what DA and Scot Mitchell have in common? They played their best football when they were first declared starters. However, once the scouting reports circulated - they regressed. The goal is to progress with experience at the QB position not get worse with it.
Savage committed to Brady Quinn which was why we didn't have a first round draft pick in 2008. We're NEVER going to know what he has if we don't play him. His first 2 starts were pretty freakin good while Dumb Ass was 0-3 so it's not like he's waiting on Brett Favre here. Quinn's got more intelligence in his left ass cheek than Dumb Ass has between both ears. And Chris Simms, pre-injury was starting to become a pretty good QB. The difference between him and Dumb Ass = led team to playoffs (instead of 4 INTs vrs a crappy team like Cincy).
Folks, when Quinn was at Notre Dame they were competing in consecutive BCS Bowl Games. When Quinn left Notre Dame, their big games became the military academies. See a difference? And not for nothing, but one of the best college games I've seen was the one where Quinn gave ND the lead the last time their offense had the ball against a much more talented USC team. That's pretty much what you want from your QB right?
- Tom F.
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