Interesting Options Developing in Browns QB Situation
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Tour2 ya gotta admit as far as the QB position is concerned the bar is kinda low. Season success is also not a big evaluation issue for Browns fans. There is almost a battered fan affect that seems to be part of being a Browns fan, as a group we are expected to strive for mediocrity and except garbage. Very similar to Cubs fans.
Tour2 ya gotta admit as far as the QB position is concerned the bar is kinda low. Season success is also not a big evaluation issue for Browns fans. There is almost a battered fan affect that seems to be part of being a Browns fan, as a group we are expected to strive for mediocrity and except garbage. Very similar to Cubs fans.
The bar is right where it should be. A QB that fits the personality of the team and produces wins.
Back when we thought we had a top ten D we thought the personality requirement was a game manager. Turned out the D was not what we thought (or hoped) it was.
Instead BH proved to be just what our ground oriented O needed... a PAP'er-deluxe, game manager.
Today's game was simply beyond management...
... apparently it was also beyond coaching.
As for season success... we got a little carried away with the limited 2014 success we enjoyed prior to today.
It's happened before.
It'll happen again.
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Thats fine. I counted 25th, but is that your franchise guy?
Cut 3 times, older, inaccurate QB who has exceeded all expectations this year, playing at his personal best, and is still only the 20-24th best QB starting right now?
Thats who you want to hitch your wagon to?
Browns fans are 10 times more in love with the Hoyer Story than they are the Hoyer reality.
and now your true colors come shining though.
same old browns? same old stockton.
and now your true colors come shining though.
same old browns? same old stockton.
Be fair, mik....
While things were going relatively well, he did not post at all...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
All your numbers are correct but to be fair he is at worst 20-24 in the league right now.
Thats fine. I counted 25th, but is that your franchise guy?
Cut 3 times, older, inaccurate QB who has exceeded all expectations this year, playing at his personal best, and is still only the 20-24th best QB starting right now?
Thats who you want to hitch your wagon to?
Browns fans are 10 times more in love with the Hoyer Story than they are the Hoyer reality.
Thats fine. I counted 25th, but is that your franchise guy?
Cut 3 times, older, inaccurate QB who has exceeded all expectations this year, playing at his personal best, and is still only the 20-24th best QB starting right now?
Thats who you want to hitch your wagon to?
Browns fans are 10 times more in love with the Hoyer Story than they are the Hoyer reality.
I would agree if I thought the Browns were a QB away. I do believe with all but the top 5 guys Manning, Luck, Brady, Brees and #5 we would still be 3-3.
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Tour2 ya gotta admit as far as the QB position is concerned the bar is kinda low. Season success is also not a big evaluation issue for Browns fans. There is almost a battered fan affect that seems to be part of being a Browns fan, as a group we are expected to strive for mediocrity and except garbage. Very similar to Cubs fans.
The bar is right where it should be. A QB that fits the personality of the team and produces wins.
Back when we thought we had a top ten D we thought the personality requirement was a game manager. Turned out the D was not what we thought (or hoped) it was.
Instead BH proved to be just what our ground oriented O needed... a PAP'er-deluxe, game manager.
Today's game was simply beyond management...
... apparently it was also beyond coaching.
As for season success... we got a little carried away with the limited 2014 success we enjoyed prior to today.
It's happened before.
It'll happen again.
The bar is right where it should be. A QB that fits the personality of the team and produces wins.
Back when we thought we had a top ten D we thought the personality requirement was a game manager. Turned out the D was not what we thought (or hoped) it was.
Instead BH proved to be just what our ground oriented O needed... a PAP'er-deluxe, game manager.
Today's game was simply beyond management...
... apparently it was also beyond coaching.
As for season success... we got a little carried away with the limited 2014 success we enjoyed prior to today.
It's happened before.
It'll happen again.
I guess that's my point, we should want Andrew Luck, instead we want Alex Smith. Nothing wrong with Alex Smith but he's not winning a SuperBowl in our lifetime. Guys like Smith only win Superbowls when they are in the Dilfer situation when you are strong across the board and legedary on D.
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Hoyer shit the bed today, never seen that many throws behind receivers. That being said JFF would be worse at this point. Hoyer gets a bad game here and there. If it keeps up we'll have a discussion about JFF. As it stands, Hoyer needs to look at his play today and then STFU about ANY TALK WHATSOEVER about not wanting to sign if JFF is here. If you're an NFL qb you don't give a fuck who they have behind you..you don't whine about a draft pick and try to strongarm the team into having a shitty backup that ensures your starting job.
Hoyer shit the bed today, never seen that many throws behind receivers. That being said JFF would be worse at this point. Hoyer gets a bad game here and there. If it keeps up we'll have a discussion about JFF. As it stands, Hoyer needs to look at his play today and then STFU about ANY TALK WHATSOEVER about not wanting to sign if JFF is here. If you're an NFL qb you don't give a fuck who they have behind you..you don't whine about a draft pick and try to strongarm the team into having a shitty backup that ensures your starting job.
I guess that's my point, we should want Andrew Luck, instead we want Alex Smith. Nothing wrong with Alex Smith but he's not winning a SuperBowl in our lifetime. Guys like Smith only win Superbowls when they are in the Dilfer situation when you are strong across the board and legedary on D.
Hey, I'm on a remote today. I agree- Hoyer was beyond putrid today- like Brandon Wee-Done bad. Sure, he deserves a lot of the blame for the loss. But there's plenty of that to spread around. How 'bout that forth down fiasco? How about Poyer muffing the punt when he should have let it go into the end zone?
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Be fair, mik....
While things were going relatively well, he did not post at all...
tour he was great in the tavern today, actually defending hoyer when he prob should have let hoyer get sent to the dawgs........
but when you get enough nudging and enough fuel all it takes is that one spark and you're back to being that same old hater, racist or crook.
stockton is not a bad guy, i can tell but in the end he'll always be a guy that joined this board because of manziel. not a bad reason at all. but if you got one bullet, one shot who would you think he'd take out? (no stats or reasons withstanding.)
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The bar is right where it should be. A QB that fits the personality of the team and produces wins.
Back when we thought we had a top ten D we thought the personality requirement was a game manager. Turned out the D was not what we thought (or hoped) it was.
Instead BH proved to be just what our ground oriented O needed... a PAP'er-deluxe, game manager.
Today's game was simply beyond management...
... apparently it was also beyond coaching.
As for season success... we got a little carried away with the limited 2014 success we enjoyed prior to today.
It's happened before.
It'll happen again.
I guess that's my point, we should want Andrew Luck, instead we want Alex Smith. Nothing wrong with Alex Smith but he's not winning a SuperBowl in our lifetime. Guys like Smith only win Superbowls when they are in the Dilfer situation when you are strong across the board and legedary on D.
I guess that's my point, we should want Andrew Luck, instead we want Alex Smith. Nothing wrong with Alex Smith but he's not winning a SuperBowl in our lifetime. Guys like Smith only win Superbowls when they are in the Dilfer situation when you are strong across the board and legedary on D.
Then we are talking past each other... not that that would be unusual for a forum...
I firmly believe you always have to be looking for your next QB.
Find him and you're set for ten years barring a performance diminishing injury.
Get close and you have your back-up/fill-in/trade material to help you draft your next "next QB".
I think it is a never ending cycle. But it's a cycle that starts with having your QB.
Right now BH is simply the leading candidate to be our QB. I thought so in the off-season. I thought so thru TC and Pre-season. I thought so last nite. I think so tonite.
JM or Shaw may then be "next", but they trail now. Maybe not by as much tonite as they did last nite, but they still trail... and, I believe, trail substantially.
And for the record, Andrew Luck is the only QB I have seen in the past three drafts that I would have sold out to get. Unfortunately the Colts weren't ever dealing that pick.
tour he was great in the tavern today, actually defending hoyer when he prob should have let hoyer get sent to the dawgs........
but when you get enough nudging and enough fuel all it takes is that one spark and you're back to being that same old hater, racist or crook.
I know.. I was there...
But they have seen an opening and are determined to seize upon it...
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I guess that's my point, we should want Andrew Luck, instead we want Alex Smith. Nothing wrong with Alex Smith but he's not winning a SuperBowl in our lifetime. Guys like Smith only win Superbowls when they are in the Dilfer situation when you are strong across the board and legedary on D.
Then we are talking past each other... not that that would be unusual for a forum...
I firmly believe you always have to be looking for your next QB.
Find him and you're set for ten years barring a performance diminishing injury.
Get close and you have your back-up/fill-in/trade material to help you draft your next "next QB".
I think it is a never ending cycle. But it's a cycle that starts with having your QB.
Right now BH is simply the leading candidate to be our QB. I thought so in the off-season. I thought so thru TC and Pre-season. I thought so last nite. I think so tonite.
JM or Shaw may then be "next", but they trail now. Maybe not by as much tonite as they did last nite, but they still trail... and, I believe, trail substantially.
And for the record, Andrew Luck is the only QB I have seen in the past three drafts that I would have sold out to get. Unfortunately the Colts weren't ever dealing that pick.
tour he was great in the tavern today, actually defending hoyer when he prob should have let hoyer get sent to the dawgs........
but when you get enough nudging and enough fuel all it takes is that one spark and you're back to being that same old hater, racist or crook.
I know.. I was there...
But they have seen an opening and are determined to seize upon it...
Then we are talking past each other... not that that would be unusual for a forum...
I firmly believe you always have to be looking for your next QB.
Find him and you're set for ten years barring a performance diminishing injury.
Get close and you have your back-up/fill-in/trade material to help you draft your next "next QB".
I think it is a never ending cycle. But it's a cycle that starts with having your QB.
Right now BH is simply the leading candidate to be our QB. I thought so in the off-season. I thought so thru TC and Pre-season. I thought so last nite. I think so tonite.
JM or Shaw may then be "next", but they trail now. Maybe not by as much tonite as they did last nite, but they still trail... and, I believe, trail substantially.
And for the record, Andrew Luck is the only QB I have seen in the past three drafts that I would have sold out to get. Unfortunately the Colts weren't ever dealing that pick.
I know.. I was there...
But they have seen an opening and are determined to seize upon it...
I agree on this team Hoyer is the best option. Unfortunately Wilson and Foles were also available without much work. That is the plan that I've always liked for bad teams and unfortunately this is a bad team.
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Oh well. Too bad the money issue came up this week. It was already pressure enough playing in front of JFF. Add in future pay scale and any normal person might have caved just as badly.
Seriously? I actually think I prefer the open fanboys to your passive-aggressive BS...
Seriously? I actually think I prefer the open fanboys to your passive-aggressive BS...
I'm not sure where that comment came from. I'll write it off to frustration with a sputtering team effort. I'm doing my best to give BH the benefit of the doubt here. I am still not ready to throw him under the bus because I am still not sure why he played so poorly today. But completions consistently below 50% is not a good thing regardless of the cause. We had multiple opportunities to take control of this game all the way up to 10 minutes to go. For some reason he just could not get in sync. I'll watch the replay tomorrow to see if I can figure out why that is. I'm not ashamed to admit that right now, I have no clue. I do know for sure that all the contract talk and allegations of not wanting to be on a team with JM had to be a distraction, regardless of whether any had merit or not.
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Hoyer on the season 55.8 Comp % and 88.0 Rating
For comparison - QBs with at least 90 attempts
Mike Glennon 57.2% 86.2 Rating
EJ Manuel 58% 80.3 Rating
Charlie Whitehurst 61.3% 93.1 RatingKirk Cousins 61.8% 86.4 Rating
Ryan Fitzpatrick 65% 86.1 Rating
Austin Davis 66% 94.3 Rating
Kyle Orton 68.5% 92.5 Rating
Half of those guys are career backups, and the other few their fan bases are ready to get rid of them and burn any trace they ever existed. Lets keep in mind that what Hoyer has done this year has been considered "above" what people expected, and still hes in the middle of this group, only less accurate. Thats him AT HIS BEST. It's not an accident that everyone has a higher comp % than he does by at least 1.5% because Hoyer is dead last in the NFL in completion %. Dead last. Over a full 1% worse then Mike Glennon who was sent by his own team to get an eye exam because they thought he might be blind in one eye.
And we're debating on if we should sign him for 13 mil a year or Franchise him for 18 mil? Oh and what do you think 3 or 4 years?
Low self esteem out of the fan base, we have a QB we need to be figuring out a way to get rid of, because he's not the answer...and we want to lock him up. My lord.And though they've thrown a ton of INTs just know that Teddy Twatwater is throwing 61.1% and Blake Bortles 65.5%
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Then we are talking past each other... not that that would be unusual for a forum...
I firmly believe you always have to be looking for your next QB.
Find him and you're set for ten years barring a performance diminishing injury.
Get close and you have your back-up/fill-in/trade material to help you draft your next "next QB".
I think it is a never ending cycle. But it's a cycle that starts with having your QB.
Right now BH is simply the leading candidate to be our QB. I thought so in the off-season. I thought so thru TC and Pre-season. I thought so last nite. I think so tonite.
JM or Shaw may then be "next", but they trail now. Maybe not by as much tonite as they did last nite, but they still trail... and, I believe, trail substantially.
And for the record, Andrew Luck is the only QB I have seen in the past three drafts that I would have sold out to get. Unfortunately the Colts weren't ever dealing that pick.
I know.. I was there...
But they have seen an opening and are determined to seize upon it...
I agree on this team Hoyer is the best option. Unfortunately Wilson and Foles were also available without much work. That is the plan that I've always liked for bad teams and unfortunately this is a bad team.
I agree on this team Hoyer is the best option. Unfortunately Wilson and Foles were also available without much work. That is the plan that I've always liked for bad teams and unfortunately this is a bad team.
Wilson has his limits as a QB and the Hawks are finding that out. Likewise with Foles.
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I agree on this team Hoyer is the best option. Unfortunately Wilson and Foles were also available without much work. That is the plan that I've always liked for bad teams and unfortunately this is a bad team.
Wilson has his limits as a QB and the Hawks are finding that out. Likewise with Foles.
-
Then we are talking past each other... not that that would be unusual for a forum...
I firmly believe you always have to be looking for your next QB.
Find him and you're set for ten years barring a performance diminishing injury.
Get close and you have your back-up/fill-in/trade material to help you draft your next "next QB".
I think it is a never ending cycle. But it's a cycle that starts with having your QB.
Right now BH is simply the leading candidate to be our QB. I thought so in the off-season. I thought so thru TC and Pre-season. I thought so last nite. I think so tonite.
JM or Shaw may then be "next", but they trail now. Maybe not by as much tonite as they did last nite, but they still trail... and, I believe, trail substantially.
And for the record, Andrew Luck is the only QB I have seen in the past three drafts that I would have sold out to get. Unfortunately the Colts weren't ever dealing that pick.
I know.. I was there...
But they have seen an opening and are determined to seize upon it...
I agree on this team Hoyer is the best option. Unfortunately Wilson and Foles were also available without much work. That is the plan that I've always liked for bad teams and unfortunately this is a bad team.
I agree on this team Hoyer is the best option. Unfortunately Wilson and Foles were also available without much work. That is the plan that I've always liked for bad teams and unfortunately this is a bad team.
Wilson and Foles are not the same as Luck. Yea it'd be great to find our own Luck, but most of the teams in the league would also like to find their Andrew Luck. Very few of those guys come around per decade.
I still think Hoyer is good enough to command a playoff team. His accuracy has been a little suspect at times this year - and has probably been his biggest problem. His decision making has been above average. I would go as far as to say he's the biggest reason we won 2/3 of our games this year.
Today, he along with the entire offense and play calling was horrendous. Lets see what they do about it next week.
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Hoyer on the season 55.8 Comp % and 88.0 Rating
For comparison - QBs with at least 90 attempts
Mike Glennon 57.2% 86.2 Rating
EJ Manuel 58% 80.3 Rating
Charlie Whitehurst 61.3% 93.1 RatingKirk Cousins 61.8% 86.4 Rating
Ryan Fitzpatrick 65% 86.1 Rating
Austin Davis 66% 94.3 Rating
Kyle Orton 68.5% 92.5 Rating
Half of those guys are career backups, and the other few their fan bases are ready to get rid of them and burn any trace they ever existed. Lets keep in mind that what Hoyer has done this year has been considered "above" what people expected, and still hes in the middle of this group, only less accurate. Thats him AT HIS BEST. It's not an accident that everyone has a higher comp % than he does by at least 1.5% because Hoyer is dead last in the NFL in completion %. Dead last. Over a full 1% worse then Mike Glennon who was sent by his own team to get an eye exam because they thought he might be blind in one eye.
And we're debating on if we should sign him for 13 mil a year or Franchise him for 18 mil? Oh and what do you think 3 or 4 years?
Low self esteem out of the fan base, we have a QB we need to be figuring out a way to get rid of, because he's not the answer...and we want to lock him up. My lord.And though they've thrown a ton of INTs just know that Teddy Twatwater is throwing 61.1% and Blake Bortles 65.5%
Low self esteem out of the fan base, we have a QB we need to be figuring out a way to get rid of, because he's not the answer...and we want to lock him up. My lord.
Please save yourself... before it's too late...
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I agree on this team Hoyer is the best option. Unfortunately Wilson and Foles were also available without much work. That is the plan that I've always liked for bad teams and unfortunately this is a bad team.
Wilson has his limits as a QB and the Hawks are finding that out. Likewise with Foles.
Wilson has his limits as a QB and the Hawks are finding that out. Likewise with Foles.
But to defend my new found buddy, BH (same initials as our starting QB), both were obviously well worth the price paid to audition them.
... and what auditions those were...
Plus it's pretty clear now that both their teams have issues recreating their 2013 magic that extend beyond their QBs.
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u know why hoyer looked so sad today after the game because hes all about hoyer and he lost a fortune today in a future contract if not his career.
u know why hoyer looked so sad today after the game because hes all about hoyer and he lost a fortune today in a future contract if not his career.
I think pretty much more so than anybody Hoyer has shown that he's all about the team...
Also, there's 10 more games this season.
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I think pretty much more so than anybody Hoyer has shown that he's all about the team...
Also, there's 10 more games this season.
You are aware that just last week Hoyer said that in 2015 being a promised a starting job is more important than staying in Cleveland, right?
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You are aware that just last week Hoyer said that in 2015 being a promised a starting job is more important than staying in Cleveland, right?
So he is honest. Big deal. No QB would turn down a starting gig to be a backup..
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