The Defense - What Gives?
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Ok, everybody's talking about Hoyer "worst QB of all time" "garbage" "argher"
Aside from today, I think our offense as a unit has played better than most people's expectations (including mine).
I'm more concerned about our defense in this still early season. While I think they played well enough to give us plenty of opportunities to win the game today, I still don't believe they played particularly outstanding - especially against the run. Secondary had some blunders, but (not that it matters now) Bortles wasn't able to connect on them.
Anyway, what really changed on the defensive side of the ball? (Other than the coach/scheme)
Maybe the biggest ones:
+Justin Gilbert
+Karlos Dansby
+Donte Whitner
-D'qwell Jackson
-TJ Ward
Last year, the browns defense was ranked 9th overall in YDs/Rush. So far this year, 30th
Our offensive stats have swung in the opposite direction, to top 10 in pts/game from bottom 10, etc.
We have some injuries on the D-line now, but regardless we were stinkin it up before that.
I'd argue we've played pretty weak competition. Getting torn up by Tennessee's and Jacksonville's (previously non-existant?) run-games.
When we picked up Dansby and Whitner. They were considered lateral, if not slight upgrades, over Jackson and Ward. Is that part of our problem? Is it scheme?
Personally, I'm just baffled as to why our defense is getting bullied by even the weakest offensive fronts, while last year it really didn't. They played well enough for us to win today (against Jacksonsville, though) - but still not good.
What does everybody think their problem is. Pettine keeps saying that he's in love with the way Jim O'neil is calling the games. So if he says (he did in one of the last few press conferences, anyway) O'neil is doing an awesome job at calling the games - so it seems like he's blaming the players' execution then.
Idk, people weren't overly enthralled with Horton by the end of the year last year. But he had this defense playing much better than it is so far in 2014.
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Everybody is baffled. Yeah I don't understand why Pettine didn't keep Horton on. The basics of the 3-4 is that the OLB'ers hold edge. Sheard and Kruger were doing that just fine earlier in the year...now you can tell they're being told to pinch in to help with the interior and sure enough we're seeing a lot more runs now breaking to the outside. This is likely only going to get worse. I'm still mystified as to why we're so soft down the middle when last year with pretty much the exact same talent, allegedly, we were so much better. Someone please do an x's and o's on this run defense. I can only see well what's happening on the outside, it's tough to see often the how's and why's we're getting beat up the middle. I can see that Dansby and Kirksey are constantly in the wrong hole but is it because the OL is getting off on them too much? I mean I know that's not good but I watched Poluszny fight through our blockers all day today. Some of these o lines we've faced are garbage, Dansby faced much better at Arizona and apparently put up good numbers there..so what gives?
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There are several issues with this defense and it really starts up front...For whatever reason our bigs seem to be coming off the line too high,allowing the OL to get into them and open up lanes instead of clogging up the line and forcing runs into the pursuit...this has been going on since training camp and all the linemen are guilty of it.
Tackling has been atrocious...I thought it was obvious that Tenn backs were told to keep churning on first contact because Browns defenders don't wrap up. I pretty much feel like Robinson got the start yesterday for the same reason.Jags felt like he could break some tackles and get to the second level...and he did.
As much as we'd like to blame these issues on coaching.This is basic football taught from the time you are very young.
No excuse for DL standing straight up at the snap of the ball ,or defenders not wrapping your arms and driving through
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It has to be a scheme vs. players thing. As I've said before, there's no way a good core of talent that we had ALL got that much worse in one year. It just doesn't make sense. Unfortunately it's clear things aren't going to change though.
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Poor tackling. Let me put it another way: poor tackling.
This has been the big issue for me going back to game one of the preseason.
I don't really care how high the defense was ranked last year--we were 4-12 so
I wasn't really impressed with "But we're ranked in the top 10!" argument.
What concerns me the most is what I've seen since the beginning of preseason:
Bad angles and atrocious tackling. Not wrapping up. The touchdown at the end of
the half yesterday was nothing more than a gift. Backs and receivers constantly run
right through defenders.
This is basic, Pop Warner stuff, guys. Break down, wrap the arms, and drive through the ballcarrier.
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Hell, forget driving through the ballcarrier. How about break down, wrap the arms, and hold on for dear life
until the cavalry arrives.
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I cant believe fucking tackling is an issue, in football....in the NFL.
Also Mingo got roasted all game, literally all game, he cant contain, gets blocked way too easily, and couldn't even wrap up. He does nothing -
no taylor and no rubin.
that's the difference.
if you're not strong up the middle you're not strong at all.
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Failures get the attention. Successes not so much.
Poor tackling is an oversimplification.
I think that the bigger issue is getting in position to make the tackle. Some posts got at angles and breaking down. I agree that's part of the issue, but so is arriving at a position under control. No worse example of that than Mingo. He's flying to, and then right on by, play after play.
However, I still think the above falls short of capturing "tackling position". Position starts at the play call... the play design.
If our OLBs are being asked to crash and give up the edge in doing so... that's the designed call.
If they are given reads that make them do the same, that's design.
Some of the better tackling yesterday that I remember seeing came from Gilbert... ranged from his delayed CB blitz to his 3rd and long, "hold on 'til the Calvary came" ankle "tackle".
One of the worst: Skrine (who in general seemed to have a good game) failing to bring down a JAX WR (Robinson?) on the near sideline and allowing a first down. Buster broke down, but was not in position to prevent the WR from getting to his outside, away from "the Calvary".
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no taylor and no rubin.
that's the difference.
if you're not strong up the middle you're not strong at all.
But we had the exact same problems when they were on the field and healthy. Nothings changed. I don't get it. I wouldn't be optimistic about their return whatsoever because the result seems to be the same.
no taylor and no rubin.
that's the difference.
if you're not strong up the middle you're not strong at all.
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It starts up front. The Dline doesn't shed blocks very well however I strongly suspect they aren't being asked to perform gap penetration as much as they're being told to hold the point of the attack and let the LB's clean things up.
That's fine if a) you have the personnel to keep the linebackers clean and
said linebackers continuously meet the ball carrier at the line.Its no coincidence that health and suspensions have derailed the front 4 of the Panthers, their linebackers and secondary have followed suit.
Fix that problem, and the rest will start to go away.
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The problem is really very simple its Mike Pettine and his schemes. You can blame all the players you want but his run defense went from 3rd 2010 to 13th 2011 to 26th 2012 with the Jets. Then to 28th in 2013 with the Bills and now 32nd in 2014 with the Browns. Denard FUCKING Robinson for 127 yards are you kidding me!!!!
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Last year's "D" was ranked in the top 10 and was #3 in the league in sacks, but I also remember several 4th quarter meltdowns that Horton's defense is famous for (think Titans game a couple of weeks ago).
Mik nailed it when he said no Rubin or Taylor. Watch how the opposing team's O-line can manipulate the "A" gap by pushing our interior lineman out of the way. Once the ball carrier gets past the LOS, that's when the poor tackling becomes obvious.
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i think we have great talent on D but they haven't gelled together as a unit and in week 8 of a 16 game season you have to ask yourself if they can get it together before we're 6 and 10 and scratching our heads. the D on paper is not over-hyped. it's the bull-headed mentality of pettine and o'neil's rigid schemes and their inability to figure out how to get the best out of players like sheard and mingo.
someone said earlier about stop the schoolyard play. they were talking about the offense. i say let these dudes on D off their leashes and let them do what they were doing for 15 years before they joined the browns.....that's get to the QB.
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nose tackle jacobbi mcdaniel was released according to tony grossi, and rubin is seeking a second opinion on his anke. surgery may be a possibility....
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Haden way over rated.
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nose tackle jacobbi mcdaniel was released according to tony grossi, and rubin is seeking a second opinion on his anke. surgery may be a possibility....
why the fuck would we release DL depth now of all times? Unless they're about to make a trade or claim someone...who knows.
nose tackle jacobbi mcdaniel was released according to tony grossi, and rubin is seeking a second opinion on his anke. surgery may be a possibility....
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The problem is really very simple its Mike Pettine and his schemes. You can blame all the players you want but his run defense went from 3rd 2010 to 13th 2011 to 26th 2012 with the Jets. Then to 28th in 2013 with the Bills and now 32nd in 2014 with the Browns. Denard FUCKING Robinson for 127 yards are you kidding me!!!!
Denards actually talented though...we've let some real bums run all over us this year.
The problem is really very simple its Mike Pettine and his schemes. You can blame all the players you want but his run defense went from 3rd 2010 to 13th 2011 to 26th 2012 with the Jets. Then to 28th in 2013 with the Bills and now 32nd in 2014 with the Browns. Denard FUCKING Robinson for 127 yards are you kidding me!!!!
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why the fuck would we release DL depth now of all times? Unless they're about to make a trade or claim someone...who knows.
nose tackle jacobbi mcdaniel was released according to tony grossi, and rubin is seeking a second opinion on his anke. surgery may be a possibility....
why the fuck would we release DL depth now of all times? Unless they're about to make a trade or claim someone...who knows.
He said on his twitter because Taylor may be back, but I'm sure he's not a sure thing for Sunday. Maybe we have something in the works.
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