Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Except from the coaching staff, which is all that matters. First off, "starting" qbs far worse than Hoyer have had far worse games- remember that Browns qb from a few years back that posted a perfect zero qbr? Didn't lose their starting gig after one stinker. And not just for the Browns either, if that's what you're thinking.
Also your logic is flawed by the assumption Manziel is going to come in and do way better. If Pettine thought that was the case, JFF would already be starting. He's not getting paid to lose games.
Once again you're comparing Hoyer to our previous awful QBs, and while he might be more steady then they were (who the majority are out of the league and the rest are backups, except Colt getting his start Monday) you're not comparing him to winning QBs. If you compare Hoyers numbers to the average playoff winning QB, he's awful. Next to the Browns previous QBs, he's good.
If you're desire for this team to just became an ok team and not finish with an embarrassing record every year, Brians your guy. I mean reading plenty of posts around it sounds like mediocrity is all you expect from this franchise and want anyone that can get them there. I don't think that way. I want a contender, a team that becomes a constant contender and that starts at QB. If you don't have the QB you can't get there. Brians not the QB. He's never once showed he's a great QB, hes only showed he can do his best not to lose you a game. The fans eat it up, and everytime we win its "HOYER IS A WINNER!!!" and whenever we lose it becomes "Oh well its a team loss" when really its much more the other way around. I'm looking to BUILD something here, not just patchwork a 6th seed playoff team that just good enough to get trounced in the first round, or a constant 8-8 team. Thats what Hoyer gives you a chance for, and that chance is even slim. Nothing more.
So now that I know Hoyer isn't the guy, now I want to know if Manziel is the guy. He might suck, you all could be right about that. But until he gets a shot we won't know. I know what Hoyer is, he's a backup, now I need to see what Manziel is. If Manziels not the guy then we need someone else.
I agree with Hoyer starting the season, Manziel wasn't ready, and I agree if we can stay in playoff contention Hoyer gives us the best shot. However we just lost to the Jags. Playoff teams don't lose that game. Chances of making playoffs just got a lot slimmer and with another game like that they'll be practically zero. The minute that happens Hoyer needs to go figure out what other team will have him (and pay that 13 Mil a year he's asking for, which will be interesting to see who would bite at that) and we need to develop Johnny to see if he could be the guy.
... everytime we win its "HOYER IS A WINNER!!!" and whenever we lose it becomes "Oh well its a team loss" when really its much more the other way around.
So now that I know Hoyer isn't the guy, now I want to know if Manziel is the guy. He might suck, you all could be right about that. But until he gets a shot we won't know. I know what Hoyer is, he's a backup, now I need to see what Manziel is. If Manziels not the guy then we need someone else.
I agree with Hoyer starting the season, Manziel wasn't ready, and I agree if we can stay in playoff contention Hoyer gives us the best shot. However we just lost to the Jags. Playoff teams don't lose that game.
Yet the Seahawks just lost to the Rams... the Rams with their 3rd string QB. If we use your criteria there might not be enough playoff teams this year to fill the brackets.
You now know... now. You speak as if your mind was not made up prior to Sunday. It was. All here know it. Were it not you would have been here the last five weeks trying to figure it out with the rest of us. But you were not. Other than the tavern you've been were nowhere to be found for weeks... until Sunday's toe stub.
What I find amazing about your posts is the detailed reality you construct for you and you alone.
Example 1:"Everyone" credits Hoyer for our victories to the exclusion of all others, but blames loses on the team.
For someone who touts logic ad nauseum, yours is escapable.
... national media is having this discussion.
This is why we all know deep down that Hoyer won't resign if Manziel is here (just like the reports have said).
Walter is national media?
Why care about national media?
Example 2: Clinging to the discredited "Hoyer won't resign if..." storyline.
you think kirk cousins doesn't know the system? wonder why we don't/didn't bring him in? lol.
Classic...
As for Cousins threads... there are two to chose from:
Cousins http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28522&hl=cousins and
Could Kirk Cousins Follow Kyle Shanahan to the Browns? http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28337&hl=cousins
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The following is from another MKC article, so I'll stick to direct quotes. Hopefully they are safe....
"Brian is still firmly our starter,'' said Pettine, still admittedly feeling the sting of Sunday's 24-6 loss to the previously winless Jaguars. "Nothing's changed. Each week we make the decision as to if we want to include Johnny in the plan.''
"Each week when the offensive staff gets together -- and I'll jump in with them too -- is that they put the plan together, and it's what gives us the best chance to win,'' said Pettine. "So if the situation this week maybe calls for him to play some then that will be the case. But we're not going to hit the panic button after one loss. While we know that the quarterback position needed to be more productive, it was more symptomatic of the entire offense.''
"I know this (game) severely dropped (the completion percentage),'' said Pettine. "If it becomes a couple more games (and it's) still a trend, that's something to look at. (But) there are some times when completion percentage will be affected when you're trying to throw the ball away or take some more shots downfield. That's not something to me is a concern today.''
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_briefly_discu.html
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Once again Hoyer is not the long term guy. Couldn't be more obvious that he's AT HIS BEST just an ok QB. He has never done one thing in a Browns uniform that resembles an Elite QB. Never hitch your wagon to a suspect arm and accuracy issues because they'll always come back to kill your team.
The longer Hoyer starts the WORSE it is for the Browns. We're only delaying progression for Manziel and progression from the FO in knowing if they have something in Manziel or have to keep looking. Hoyer is out there playing only for himself (Do you really think the minute we beat Pittsburgh the "rumors" of Hoyers contract demands started? Nope, Hoyer asked for all those things, said all those things and even went a week not denying it before giving a non-answer on it that some seem to read as a denial. Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
Theres this weird hope around here that I guess, what....we make the 6th seed? Is that what you're praying for? 8-8? I don't know what your dreams are but they're not contending for a Super Bowl this year and delaying figuring out the next 3-5 years for this franchise is only hurting it.Hurts draft picks, hurts development. This "Go with whoever helps us win each week" is extremely shortsighted. This is a building process. People want to act like we have a complete product that just needs to go out there and win. No we need to build. Position ourselves for a several year run, not just sniff the playoffs this year and cause utter chaos in the offseason.
You promise the vets you'll try to win, and Hoyer is by far the best option if you want to "win each week" but he's killing the development of this team and disrupting the process by being very average and then demanding things. Once it becomes clear to everyone that the playoffs isn't happening, Hoyer needs to go, he's not the guy, never will be the guy for anybody, and we need to find out if Manziel (or even the crush of some of you around here Connie Shaw) is the guy. The longer we wait to find that out, the absolute worse for the Browns.
Look no further then the Jags, who gave up over 100 points in 8 quarters earlier in the year, who held Hoyer to only 6 points. Chad Henne is much better of a QB then Bortles right now, but they realize they're not helping anything by delaying Bortles development. If they wanted to win more games Henne is the guy, but if they want to build something meaningful, then you need Bortles to learn now. They realize "Hey we're not winning a Super Bowl, so we need to give ourselves a chance in the future" and yet the Browns seem to be stuck in between in this weird "We're not paying attention to the future, just this week, only this week matters" mindset and that does ZERO good for a team trying to build something. Zero.
The fact people on this board can't see that is amazing to me. -
Hoyer vs Manziel is 100% the same issue as Alex Smith vs Colin K in SF. I'm not going to sit there and speculate that putting Manziel in would equate to AFC championship games, but what I mean is we know what we got in Hoyer. I'm not off the bandwagon yet as I think he (Hoyer) is the best to guide us against weak teams that hopefully the embarrassing loss has the team prepared for. It will be very hard to keep the voices down though if he sucks it up against Oakland.
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Once again Hoyer is not the long term guy. Couldn't be more obvious that he's AT HIS BEST just an ok QB. He has never done one thing in a Browns uniform that resembles an Elite QB. Never hitch your wagon to a suspect arm and accuracy issues because they'll always come back to kill your team.
The longer Hoyer starts the WORSE it is for the Browns. We're only delaying progression for Manziel and progression from the FO in knowing if they have something in Manziel or have to keep looking. Hoyer is out there playing only for himself (Do you really think the minute we beat Pittsburgh the "rumors" of Hoyers contract demands started? Nope, Hoyer asked for all those things, said all those things and even went a week not denying it before giving a non-answer on it that some seem to read as a denial. Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
Theres this weird hope around here that I guess, what....we make the 6th seed? Is that what you're praying for? 8-8? I don't know what your dreams are but they're not contending for a Super Bowl this year and delaying figuring out the next 3-5 years for this franchise is only hurting it.Hurts draft picks, hurts development. This "Go with whoever helps us win each week" is extremely shortsighted. This is a building process. People want to act like we have a complete product that just needs to go out there and win. No we need to build. Position ourselves for a several year run, not just sniff the playoffs this year and cause utter chaos in the offseason.
You promise the vets you'll try to win, and Hoyer is by far the best option if you want to "win each week" but he's killing the development of this team and disrupting the process by being very average and then demanding things. Once it becomes clear to everyone that the playoffs isn't happening, Hoyer needs to go, he's not the guy, never will be the guy for anybody, and we need to find out if Manziel (or even the crush of some of you around here Connie Shaw) is the guy. The longer we wait to find that out, the absolute worse for the Browns.
Look no further then the Jags, who gave up over 100 points in 8 quarters earlier in the year, who held Hoyer to only 6 points. Chad Henne is much better of a QB then Bortles right now, but they realize they're not helping anything by delaying Bortles development. If they wanted to win more games Henne is the guy, but if they want to build something meaningful, then you need Bortles to learn now. They realize "Hey we're not winning a Super Bowl, so we need to give ourselves a chance in the future" and yet the Browns seem to be stuck in between in this weird "We're not paying attention to the future, just this week, only this week matters" mindset and that does ZERO good for a team trying to build something. Zero.
The fact people on this board can't see that is amazing to me.You promise the vets you'll try to win, and Hoyer is by far the best option if you want to "win each week" but he's killing the development of this team and disrupting the process by being very average and then demanding things. Once it becomes clear to everyone that the playoffs isn't happening, Hoyer needs to go, he's not the guy, never will be the guy for anybody, and we need to find out if Manziel (or even the crush of some of you around here Connie Shaw) is the guy. The longer we wait to find that out, the absolute worse for the Browns.
What the fuck elite team is this man holding back? The Browns are an average team. Slightly above average with effort and discipline. We have question marks at WR, TE, Dline and Oline depth. We lack playmakers outside of a healthy Cameron and the oft suspended Gordon. Please stop making this sound like 2012 Kansas City with 8 pro bowlers and the only issue being the QB spot.
Look no further then the Jags, who gave up over 100 points in 8 quarters earlier in the year, who held Hoyer to only 6 points. Chad Henne is much better of a QB then Bortles right now, but they realize they're not helping anything by delaying Bortles development. If they wanted to win more games Henne is the guy, but if they want to build something meaningful, then you need Bortles to learn now. They realize "Hey we're not winning a Super Bowl, so we need to give ourselves a chance in the future" and yet the Browns seem to be stuck in between in this weird "We're not paying attention to the future, just this week, only this week matters" mindset and that does ZERO good for a team trying to build something. Zero.
The fact people on this board can't see that is amazing to me.
The Browns have gone this route before. Throw a rookie QB to the wolves when the surrounded cast isn't quite there. I might be in agreement with this when Gordon comes back, but certainly no sooner. The Jags are doing Bortles no favors and I'll be a miracle if that kid isn't shell shocked by the end of his sophomore season.
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Once again Hoyer is not the long term guy. Couldn't be more obvious that he's AT HIS BEST just an ok QB. He has never done one thing in a Browns uniform that resembles an Elite QB. Never hitch your wagon to a suspect arm and accuracy issues because they'll always come back to kill your team.
The longer Hoyer starts the WORSE it is for the Browns. We're only delaying progression for Manziel and progression from the FO in knowing if they have something in Manziel or have to keep looking. Hoyer is out there playing only for himself (Do you really think the minute we beat Pittsburgh the "rumors" of Hoyers contract demands started? Nope, Hoyer asked for all those things, said all those things and even went a week not denying it before giving a non-answer on it that some seem to read as a denial. Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
Theres this weird hope around here that I guess, what....we make the 6th seed? Is that what you're praying for? 8-8? I don't know what your dreams are but they're not contending for a Super Bowl this year and delaying figuring out the next 3-5 years for this franchise is only hurting it.Hurts draft picks, hurts development. This "Go with whoever helps us win each week" is extremely shortsighted. This is a building process. People want to act like we have a complete product that just needs to go out there and win. No we need to build. Position ourselves for a several year run, not just sniff the playoffs this year and cause utter chaos in the offseason.
You promise the vets you'll try to win, and Hoyer is by far the best option if you want to "win each week" but he's killing the development of this team and disrupting the process by being very average and then demanding things. Once it becomes clear to everyone that the playoffs isn't happening, Hoyer needs to go, he's not the guy, never will be the guy for anybody, and we need to find out if Manziel (or even the crush of some of you around here Connie Shaw) is the guy. The longer we wait to find that out, the absolute worse for the Browns.
Look no further then the Jags, who gave up over 100 points in 8 quarters earlier in the year, who held Hoyer to only 6 points. Chad Henne is much better of a QB then Bortles right now, but they realize they're not helping anything by delaying Bortles development. If they wanted to win more games Henne is the guy, but if they want to build something meaningful, then you need Bortles to learn now. They realize "Hey we're not winning a Super Bowl, so we need to give ourselves a chance in the future" and yet the Browns seem to be stuck in between in this weird "We're not paying attention to the future, just this week, only this week matters" mindset and that does ZERO good for a team trying to build something. Zero.
The fact people on this board can't see that is amazing to me.Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
Link?
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Once again Hoyer is not the long term guy. Couldn't be more obvious that he's AT HIS BEST just an ok QB. He has never done one thing in a Browns uniform that resembles an Elite QB. Never hitch your wagon to a suspect arm and accuracy issues because they'll always come back to kill your team.
The longer Hoyer starts the WORSE it is for the Browns. We're only delaying progression for Manziel and progression from the FO in knowing if they have something in Manziel or have to keep looking. Hoyer is out there playing only for himself (Do you really think the minute we beat Pittsburgh the "rumors" of Hoyers contract demands started? Nope, Hoyer asked for all those things, said all those things and even went a week not denying it before giving a non-answer on it that some seem to read as a denial. Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
Theres this weird hope around here that I guess, what....we make the 6th seed? Is that what you're praying for? 8-8? I don't know what your dreams are but they're not contending for a Super Bowl this year and delaying figuring out the next 3-5 years for this franchise is only hurting it.Hurts draft picks, hurts development. This "Go with whoever helps us win each week" is extremely shortsighted. This is a building process. People want to act like we have a complete product that just needs to go out there and win. No we need to build. Position ourselves for a several year run, not just sniff the playoffs this year and cause utter chaos in the offseason.
You promise the vets you'll try to win, and Hoyer is by far the best option if you want to "win each week" but he's killing the development of this team and disrupting the process by being very average and then demanding things. Once it becomes clear to everyone that the playoffs isn't happening, Hoyer needs to go, he's not the guy, never will be the guy for anybody, and we need to find out if Manziel (or even the crush of some of you around here Connie Shaw) is the guy. The longer we wait to find that out, the absolute worse for the Browns.
Look no further then the Jags, who gave up over 100 points in 8 quarters earlier in the year, who held Hoyer to only 6 points. Chad Henne is much better of a QB then Bortles right now, but they realize they're not helping anything by delaying Bortles development. If they wanted to win more games Henne is the guy, but if they want to build something meaningful, then you need Bortles to learn now. They realize "Hey we're not winning a Super Bowl, so we need to give ourselves a chance in the future" and yet the Browns seem to be stuck in between in this weird "We're not paying attention to the future, just this week, only this week matters" mindset and that does ZERO good for a team trying to build something. Zero.
The fact people on this board can't see that is amazing to me.Once again Hoyer is not the long term guy. Couldn't be more obvious that he's AT HIS BEST just an ok QB. He has never done one thing in a Browns uniform that resembles an Elite QB. Never hitch your wagon to a suspect arm and accuracy issues because they'll always come back to kill your team.
The longer Hoyer starts the WORSE it is for the Browns. We're only delaying progression for Manziel and progression from the FO in knowing if they have something in Manziel or have to keep looking. Hoyer is out there playing only for himself (Do you really think the minute we beat Pittsburgh the "rumors" of Hoyers contract demands started? Nope, Hoyer asked for all those things, said all those things and even went a week not denying it before giving a non-answer on it that some seem to read as a denial. Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
Theres this weird hope around here that I guess, what....we make the 6th seed? Is that what you're praying for? 8-8? I don't know what your dreams are but they're not contending for a Super Bowl this year and delaying figuring out the next 3-5 years for this franchise is only hurting it.Hurts draft picks, hurts development. This "Go with whoever helps us win each week" is extremely shortsighted. This is a building process. People want to act like we have a complete product that just needs to go out there and win. No we need to build. Position ourselves for a several year run, not just sniff the playoffs this year and cause utter chaos in the offseason.
You promise the vets you'll try to win, and Hoyer is by far the best option if you want to "win each week" but he's killing the development of this team and disrupting the process by being very average and then demanding things. Once it becomes clear to everyone that the playoffs isn't happening, Hoyer needs to go, he's not the guy, never will be the guy for anybody, and we need to find out if Manziel (or even the crush of some of you around here Connie Shaw) is the guy. The longer we wait to find that out, the absolute worse for the Browns.
Look no further then the Jags, who gave up over 100 points in 8 quarters earlier in the year, who held Hoyer to only 6 points. Chad Henne is much better of a QB then Bortles right now, but they realize they're not helping anything by delaying Bortles development. If they wanted to win more games Henne is the guy, but if they want to build something meaningful, then you need Bortles to learn now. They realize "Hey we're not winning a Super Bowl, so we need to give ourselves a chance in the future" and yet the Browns seem to be stuck in between in this weird "We're not paying attention to the future, just this week, only this week matters" mindset and that does ZERO good for a team trying to build something. Zero.
The fact people on this board can't see that is amazing to me.
are you some uneducated dimwit? i mean what tree did your mom drop you out of?
do you REALLY THINK (in your world who knows) that a coach in the NFL today knowing that he can lose his job at the drop of a hat after moving his family to a new city, brought people with him (coaching staff and friends) would risk all of that for a guy to start as your QB if he's not the best possible option? when are you going to get it through your big fucking numbskull that there is no conspiracy against manziel? obviously the kid isn't ready or doesn't know shit from shineola. fuck. if he's that good let him start. i want to see him run better than our RBs are running. just don't think he could take the hits. or let hoyer be a wide-out and let him throw him an illegal pass down the sidelines. or how about using him as the holder on field goal attempts where he could always get the ball, run or throw?
guess he can't even do that.
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Hoyer has publically said "I'd rather be promised a starting job then stay in Cleveland" he's 100% about himself).
Link?
Link?
he can't give you one because it was never said.
(and no, a Mike H bleacher report article does not make it legit).
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Link?
he can't give you one because it was never said.
(and no, a Mike H bleacher report article does not make it legit).
he can't give you one because it was never said.
(and no, a Mike H bleacher report article does not make it legit).
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paraphrasing a bit much. Don't know one qb in the history of the NFL (including JF) that wouldn't say the same thing. I wouldn't have a player on my team that didn't compete that way. Cause they all say "I'm going to turn down a starting gig worth a starters contract to help a team win from the bench making considerably less money."
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paraphrasing a bit much. Don't know one qb in the history of the NFL (including JF) that wouldn't say the same thing. I wouldn't have a player on my team that didn't compete that way. Cause they all say "I'm going to turn down a starting gig worth a starters contract to help a team win from the bench making considerably less money."
paraphrasing a bit much. Don't know one qb in the history of the NFL (including JF) that wouldn't say the same thing. I wouldn't have a player on my team that didn't compete that way. Cause they all say "I'm going to turn down a starting gig worth a starters contract to help a team win from the bench making considerably less money."
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
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paraphrasing a bit much. Don't know one qb in the history of the NFL (including JF) that wouldn't say the same thing. I wouldn't have a player on my team that didn't compete that way. Cause they all say "I'm going to turn down a starting gig worth a starters contract to help a team win from the bench making considerably less money."
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
I wouldn't want a QB on my roster that had goals any lower than being a starting QB. You only get so many years to play the game, can't blame Brian or any competitor in the sport for wanting to play and make the biggest contribution possible.
That being said, I'm sure being the starting QB on the Cleveland Browns would be his #1 choice. Hopefully it's Manziel's #1 choice too. Do you think Manziel would rather be a backup QB on the Browns? Or start somewhere else.
Everyone's stirring up trouble about this for no reason, IMO. Let the man play some football. He seems more passionate about the team than anybody, and that's a good thing.
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paraphrasing a bit much. Don't know one qb in the history of the NFL (including JF) that wouldn't say the same thing. I wouldn't have a player on my team that didn't compete that way. Cause they all say "I'm going to turn down a starting gig worth a starters contract to help a team win from the bench making considerably less money."
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
Joe Montana demanding trade?
Payton not restructuring to play wet nurse back-up??
These guys are just selfish right??? And they are arguably the best 2 ever too
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Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
I wouldn't want a QB on my roster that had goals any lower than being a starting QB. You only get so many years to play the game, can't blame Brian or any competitor in the sport for wanting to play and make the biggest contribution possible.
That being said, I'm sure being the starting QB on the Cleveland Browns would be his #1 choice. Hopefully it's Manziel's #1 choice too. Do you think Manziel would rather be a backup QB on the Browns? Or start somewhere else.
Everyone's stirring up trouble about this for no reason, IMO. Let the man play some football. He seems more passionate about the team than anybody, and that's a good thing.
I wouldn't want a QB on my roster that had goals any lower than being a starting QB. You only get so many years to play the game, can't blame Brian or any competitor in the sport for wanting to play and make the biggest contribution possible.
That being said, I'm sure being the starting QB on the Cleveland Browns would be his #1 choice. Hopefully it's Manziel's #1 choice too. Do you think Manziel would rather be a backup QB on the Browns? Or start somewhere else.
Everyone's stirring up trouble about this for no reason, IMO. Let the man play some football. He seems more passionate about the team than anybody, and that's a good thing.
I agree with you.
Loyalty is a two way street.
(I still want the best man to start)
WSS
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paraphrasing a bit much. Don't know one qb in the history of the NFL (including JF) that wouldn't say the same thing. I wouldn't have a player on my team that didn't compete that way. Cause they all say "I'm going to turn down a starting gig worth a starters contract to help a team win from the bench making considerably less money."
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
that statement doesn't mean he made a demand that Manziel needs to go. He's saying he wants to start and that he'd rather be a starter somewhere else than a backup in Cleveland. I understand that, not mad at that at all. "BUT", if part of his contract negotiations is that he wants Manziel out of Cleveland...well than I dunno. I really wonder if the guys in the lockeroom read that and know somehow that there was truth to it....could possibly explain why they came out utterly flat.
Your assessment though that Sundays loss was on Hoyer is stupid though. You might not understand football much and I'm really not trying to be a dick about that. But when your defense is literally putting out some of the worst defensive play seen in years from any team....it shitcans your offensive plan. We all know Hoyer isn't a Rodgers, Brady or Manning type QB that can put 40 points on the board on any given Sunday entirely on his own. We all knew what Shanny's scheme was and that a run game "has" to be established to allow Hoyer to throw over the top. And for a guy who you keep saying has a bad arm...what have you been watching? The dude's been throwing lasers over the top of secondary's all season long. He had a duck on sunday which happened as he was rolling to his right..big fucking deal.
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
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that statement doesn't mean he made a demand that Manziel needs to go. He's saying he wants to start and that he'd rather be a starter somewhere else than a backup in Cleveland. I understand that, not mad at that at all. "BUT", if part of his contract negotiations is that he wants Manziel out of Cleveland...well than I dunno. I really wonder if the guys in the lockeroom read that and know somehow that there was truth to it....could possibly explain why they came out utterly flat.
Your assessment though that Sundays loss was on Hoyer is stupid though. You might not understand football much and I'm really not trying to be a dick about that. But when your defense is literally putting out some of the worst defensive play seen in years from any team....it shitcans your offensive plan. We all know Hoyer isn't a Rodgers, Brady or Manning type QB that can put 40 points on the board on any given Sunday entirely on his own. We all knew what Shanny's scheme was and that a run game "has" to be established to allow Hoyer to throw over the top. And for a guy who you keep saying has a bad arm...what have you been watching? The dude's been throwing lasers over the top of secondary's all season long. He had a duck on sunday which happened as he was rolling to his right..big fucking deal.
Ok, so would you say he's more concerned with starting or concerned with playing with the Cleveland Browns?
Your assessment though that Sundays loss was on Hoyer is stupid though. You might not understand football much and I'm really not trying to be a dick about that. But when your defense is literally putting out some of the worst defensive play seen in years from any team....it shitcans your offensive plan. We all know Hoyer isn't a Rodgers, Brady or Manning type QB that can put 40 points on the board on any given Sunday entirely on his own. We all knew what Shanny's scheme was and that a run game "has" to be established to allow Hoyer to throw over the top. And for a guy who you keep saying has a bad arm...what have you been watching? The dude's been throwing lasers over the top of secondary's all season long. He had a duck on sunday which happened as he was rolling to his right..big fucking deal.
Wait are you talking to me?
Hoyer was a big part of the loss on Sunday but as I've said before its a team loss, but what people around here seem to forget is its also a team win, when we win. After Pittsburgh it was a Hoyer love fest around here and he completed 8 passes.
If you're QB needs the running game to be going great and the OLine to be iron to do better then 39% on 41 passes, then how good is he really? That was an awful game, and Hoyer missed 3 TDs with bad throws and mis reads. One of those would've changed the complexion of that game. The Jags D gave up over 100 points over a 8 quarter span this year, and we score 6 points? Six? and go right into excuse city about how great the Jags D is? They were ranked 27th in pass D on football outsiders. A large chunk of that game was Hoyer.
And yes Hoyer has a very weak arm, and no he doesn't throw "lasers of the top" he floats balls that have cost us points because WRs who have broken free have to stop and wait and catch them like a punt. There is not a single pundit that has watch Brian Hoyer and talked about how strong his arm is. He has a weak arm, and he's very inaccurate. Thats the book on Hoyer.
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Oh and any talk of Pettine going anywhere is asking the Browns to move again. Real talk. We're at a point now where another one and done coaching change could ruin the franchise for decades to come. All of you might as well just become Bengals fans.
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Oh and any talk of Pettine going anywhere is asking the Browns to move again. Real talk. We're at a point now where another one and done coaching change could ruin the franchise for decades to come. All of you might as well just become Bengals fans.
Oh and any talk of Pettine going anywhere is asking the Browns to move again. Real talk. We're at a point now where another one and done coaching change could ruin the franchise for decades to come. All of you might as well just become Bengals fans.
What are you talking about?
What does a coaching change have to do with the Browns moving?
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first off Hoyers been "laser" accurate since his games last year. I seriously don't know what you're watching. The one thing we didnt' really know was how good his arm was. I didn't realize it was as good as it was. He's not throwing "floaters" at all. He's throwing 40-50 yds strikes that get to the receivers quickly. Not sure if he can heave the ball 80 yds but who cares? we don't need that. Utterly laughable though to say he's inaccurate. Jags game was the first time we saw any inaccuracy out of him whatsoever.
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