Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Now if I'm Pettine I want the guy RIGHT NOW, because its my job and in my head I can build a Super Bowl winner RIGHT NOW, but he's as biased as the fans and once it becomes a reality that the playoffs aren't in our future, Manziel needs to start and I would bet he would agree with that too. Hell he's already considering it.
Your getting close here. Pettine wants to win NOW. In fact, he feels like he HAS to win NOW. No matter what the future holds, he was brought in to win NOW. So he'll do whatever he feels he needs to do to accomplish that/
In regards to Bortles/carr etc. It doesn't matter what those teams do. Sometimes being in a copycat league becomes your undoing. Used to be QB's sat. Then they rushed em in. Now it's a bit of both. Some do well right away. Some take time. There is no specific formula.
Instead of ranting here, why not get a hold of Farmer and Pettine and straighten them out( message them or something)? Im sure, once they hear your logic they will agree and put JFF in.
Your getting close here. Pettine wants to win NOW. In fact, he feels like he HAS to win NOW. No matter what the future holds, he was brought in to win NOW. So he'll do whatever he feels he needs to do to accomplish that/
In regards to Bortles/carr etc. It doesn't matter what those teams do. Sometimes being in a copycat league becomes your undoing. Used to be QB's sat. Then they rushed em in. Now it's a bit of both. Some do well right away. Some take time. There is no specific formula.
Instead of ranting here, why not get a hold of Farmer and Pettine and straighten them out( message them or something)? Im sure, once they hear your logic they will agree and put JFF in.
I don't believe Pettine thinks he's one and done, not with this front office. Unless Harbaugh came in, which is unlikely and if Harbaugh came in this year Manziel would already be playing.
One of them already agrees with me. Manziel playing is closer then you guys are realizing. Hoyer is very fortunate this week is the Raiders, bad team horrible defense, very easy week for him because if it was a good defense this week, that might be curtains.
Raiders are giving up an 70% completion this year and an avg QB rating of 106. If Hoyer is worth anything he should be pretty near those numbers. Of course if Hoyer throws for 55% and has a QBR of 90 and we in you'll all be sucking his dick the next day, meanwhile he really played like shit.
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The following is from another MKC article, so I'll stick to direct quotes. Hopefully they are safe....
"Brian is still firmly our starter,'' said Pettine, still admittedly feeling the sting of Sunday's 24-6 loss to the previously winless Jaguars. "Nothing's changed. Each week we make the decision as to if we want to include Johnny in the plan.''
"Each week when the offensive staff gets together -- and I'll jump in with them too -- is that they put the plan together, and it's what gives us the best chance to win,'' said Pettine. "So if the situation this week maybe calls for him to play some then that will be the case. But we're not going to hit the panic button after one loss. While we know that the quarterback position needed to be more productive, it was more symptomatic of the entire offense.''
"I know this (game) severely dropped (the completion percentage),'' said Pettine. "If it becomes a couple more games (and it's) still a trend, that's something to look at. (But) there are some times when completion percentage will be affected when you're trying to throw the ball away or take some more shots downfield. That's not something to me is a concern today.''
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_briefly_discu.html
"I know this (game) severely dropped (the completion percentage),'' said Pettine. "If it becomes a couple more games (and it's) still a trend, that's something to look at. (But) there are some times when completion percentage will be affected when you're trying to throw the ball away or take some more shots downfield. That's not something to me is a concern today.''
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_briefly_discu.html
This is gold. Reflecting back on Sunday, there wasn't many times Hoyer had a good pocket.
The Jags were creating too much pressure with blitzes against our newly aligned offense line. And when he had time he wasn't settled
Nothing a good week of tape watching cant fix right? Otherwise Johnny will be in there sooner or later.
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Well we were above .500 last week playing a winless team and keeping QBs didnt' work out so hot either.
But I'm with you, if playoffs are a pipe dream, then keep Hoyer in, hes your only hope for that. But if you wan to be real and recognize that with the 3rd easiest schedule in the league we're only 3-3 with a loss to a Jacksonville and the back half of the schedule is one of the toughest in football, then maybe you start to plan for the future a bit earlier.
Maybe you anticipate that you're team is actually going to start playing better as the year goes on?? No?
First year HC, Offensive system, and Defensive system... 3-3 early in the year is decent, especially with games against the Raiders and Bucs coming up...
Can't THIS team start playing better??????
You talk about low self-esteem... yet, you're already going with the "Well, there's always next year" approach... What about THIS year, and THIS team??
I'm not giving up, but it sounds like you already did... Some fan...
Maybe you anticipate that you're team is actually going to start playing better as the year goes on?? No?
First year HC, Offensive system, and Defensive system... 3-3 early in the year is decent, especially with games against the Raiders and Bucs coming up...
Can't THIS team start playing better??????
You talk about low self-esteem... yet, you're already going with the "Well, there's always next year" approach... What about THIS year, and THIS team??
I'm not giving up, but it sounds like you already did... Some fan...
Does it look like the team is playing better? Not mention Mack being out all year, and the DLine is in shambles the rest of the year, did last week look like a step forward or backwards to you?
Lets use our brains people.
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Your getting close here. Pettine wants to win NOW. In fact, he feels like he HAS to win NOW. No matter what the future holds, he was brought in to win NOW. So he'll do whatever he feels he needs to do to accomplish that/
In regards to Bortles/carr etc. It doesn't matter what those teams do. Sometimes being in a copycat league becomes your undoing. Used to be QB's sat. Then they rushed em in. Now it's a bit of both. Some do well right away. Some take time. There is no specific formula.
Instead of ranting here, why not get a hold of Farmer and Pettine and straighten them out( message them or something)? Im sure, once they hear your logic they will agree and put JFF in.
I don't believe Pettine thinks he's one and done, not with this front office. Unless Harbaugh came in, which is unlikely and if Harbaugh came in this year Manziel would already be playing.
One of them already agrees with me. Manziel playing is closer then you guys are realizing. Hoyer is very fortunate this week is the Raiders, bad team horrible defense, very easy week for him because if it was a good defense this week, that might be curtains.
Raiders are giving up an 70% completion this year and an avg QB rating of 106. If Hoyer is worth anything he should be pretty near those numbers. Of course if Hoyer throws for 55% and has a QBR of 90 and we in you'll all be sucking his dick the next day, meanwhile he really played like shit.
I don't believe Pettine thinks he's one and done, not with this front office.I dont either. But I also think winning is everything to him.
One of them already agrees with me. Manziel playing is closer then you guys are realizing. Hoyer is very fortunate this week is the Raiders, bad team horrible defense, very easy week for him because if it was a good defense this week, that might be curtains. Thats very possible. Never said otherwise. In fact, just said we dont know "where" he is with the coaches(just one post back)
Raiders are giving up an 70% completion this year and an avg QB rating of 106. If Hoyer is worth anything he should be pretty near those numbers. Of course if Hoyer throws for 55% and has a QBR of 90 and we in you'll all be sucking his dick the next day, meanwhile he really played like shit. And comments like the last one are why I wont be carrying on further with this. You talk to me about being reasonable, then are completely disrespectful for no reason. I come here to talk sports, not deal with BS like you're throwing out.
How can I have a serious convo with a guy telling me about sucking dick???....You're an asshole.
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I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.
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I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.
I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
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People really think this means Hoyer could lose the job? Lol. It's so Oakland has to spend time game planning for JF. That's it.
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Hoyer has played well enough to win in 5 of 6 games. Firmly his job. Awesome to have Johnny in the wings. But his fans need to shut the fuck up, it's not his time yet ... that time will come ... Hoyer's team, lets see how they rebound from their first meltdown.
Z
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I would venture to say that he played well enough for them to win in 6 of 6 games Zombo. Hoyer would have had roughly 6 minutes or so to work his magic down by only 6 points in the 4th quarter. Who knows what would have happened had he actually been able to take the field at that time... Thanks to that muffed punt we will never know if he would have led down the field and won the game by one point.
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[quote name="StocktonShorts" post="443215"
We scored 6 points on a defense who gave up over 100 in a 8 quarter period this year. SUre the Oline wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst of all time, Hoyer missed SEVERAL not just one, but SEVERAL wide open players for TDs. Just one of those chances that game. Don't tell me he's not the lion share. Whenever we beat Pittsburgh and he completes 8 passes and 49% you're on here telling me what a great QB he is, somehow that win is all Hoyer but this loss where he misses 25 of his 41 passes....against an awful defense, that isn't on Hoyer? Im the pathetic one? Comon.
Its real convenient of you to pick a random 8 quarter stretch for the jags defense to claim they suck. This is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league and the jags have only allowed an avg of just over 10 pts a game over the past 3 games. 1st in the NFL. Now the jags offense sucks big donkey dick but their defense is playing well right now.
Hoyer isn't spectacular but is playing well enough to win including several clutch 4th quarter game-winning drives..
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I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
Hoyer was 3-0 last year as a starter and he is 3-3.this year. Making him a 6-3 qb over 9 Fucking starts u Fucking toolbag. Exactly where and the hell is it soooooook obvious he is not a franshise guy. 6-3 for the BROWNS u fucking bandwagon toolbag.
Funny thing is Johnny gets hiss chance without Mack without Gordon with a piss poor wr core and inadequate o-line how long we have to hear the bullshit excuses how Johnny isn't getting a fair shake.
It's real easy u fag if JF gives the browns the best chance to win he starts. If he doest he sits exactly where he is sitting now. He got every shot known to man to start the season and he missed by a mile hell he was overwhelmed and sacked by a guy who isn't even in the league anymore. Go preach Ur shot somewhere else and quite tryin to convince everyone else that JF cock tastes better than anything in the world. Two words fuck off!!!!
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What's impressive to me is your lack of short term memory about the bolded. There was a time, just a few short years ago that this roster was devoid of any real talent. Its a slow building process. We've seen a glimpses here and there. We've also seen some things that make us say "same old Browns". However for a team that's been so consistency shitty for so very long, .500 ball or being 'mediocre' (as you put it) is a welcome relief.
This team has to walk before they'll learn to run. If the coaching staff wasn't so sure that Foosball wouldn't be killed on the field by running his happy ass into a huge sack, he'd probably have gotten some playing time against the Steelers.
Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.
Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.
So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
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Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.
So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
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So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
Yeah and the chiefs had 6 pro bowlers on that 2012 team. Add a competent QB in Alex smith in 2013 and the turnaround is not that surprising. Nice try though
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If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it(you dont know that), he's an aging(he's 27) backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then...this is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. He's hampered by inaccuracy, which has been there since college so its not like he's getting better, and news flash people, Brian Hoyer is 29 years old.
Lets wake up people. The Browns are 3-3 right now after playing the 30th ranked schedule to this point. With a loss to the Jags.
Quit being delusional about what's going on here
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. He's hampered by inaccuracy, which has been there since college so its not like he's getting better, and news flash people, Brian Hoyer is 29 years old.
Lets wake up people. The Browns are 3-3 right now after playing the 30th ranked schedule to this point. With a loss to the Jags.
Quit being delusional about what's going on here
Delusional? The Browns are 3-3 going into a very winnable home game against the Raiders. Gasp!!! They're even favored!!! My God, how did the Steelers ever lose to the Bucs, or THE DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPION SEAHAWKS lose to a shitty team like the Rams? It happens, every week in the NFL.
Your Manziel fetish may gain some traction if Hoyer is yet again lousy come Sunday, but I wouldn't count on it.
As to "elite" quarterbacks in the NFL- Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, and Drew Brees are currently looking up at the Browns in the standings.
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I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
We get it, you've made your (one and only) point over and over again.
It's really amazing how you can find so many ways to say the same thing. What's more amazing is that you seemingly only have an opinion about that one topic.
What's funny is that when hoyer is playing well you're (thankfully) nowhere to be seen. Once hoyer shits the bed, however, we can't shut you up.
The worst is when you say things like "we" or "our" in reference to the Browns. You clearly don't give a fuck about the browns winning. all you care about is your ego and manziels cock, which explains why you stroke both constantly.
And before you reiterate your point for the millionth time, no one is falling for your faux fence-sitting on Manziel. You're a broken record with a thinly veiled agenda and to think you're insulting someone else's intelligence is laughable.
Jesus tap dancing titty fucking Christ you're boring.
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Hoys stepped on his dick last week in Jax. Show me a talented QB who doesn't have a bad day in the office on Sunday (or Monday, or Thursay) and I'll be first in line to send hoys to the pine. The fucker ain't superman
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The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.
While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.
Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.
My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.
Mike.
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The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.
While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.
Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.
My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.
Mike.
The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.
While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.
Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.
My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.
Mike.
******************************************************************
EGGSFREAKIN EXACTLY ! And the above quote, comes from a guy who really
wanted us to draft Johnny Hastowaitandlearn, bigtime !
I disagreed with him, wasn't sure how his skills, while wild and successful in college, would translate
to the pros.
However, Canton Mike, one of those rare times we disagree on stuff, was CORRECT !
Johnny will have his time - and the more he learns, the more he will show what he can do. And yes, any qb
can have a rough outing. Brady has had a real tough time this year, and the questions were starting.
It happens. My opinion ? I think the last game, the Browns offense was pressing, had a ton of trouble
with an excellent front seven, and their timing went out the door.
The Jags just caught the Browns with three changes on their offensive line, and injuries to their defensive line.
The idea that they are the old, inept Jags of earlier years is bs. Go look at the talent they have. They are bound
to starting getting it together. Their HC just came on board in Jan, 2013.
It was bad timing for the Browns, and great timing for the Jags. It happens. It's the NFL, and the Browns
know what is going on and what they need to do.
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So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
And how many of those teams had good to great talent surrounding their QB before making the jump? Off the top of my head. 2011 Niners had an elite Oline, RB, TE and defense. The Hawks in 2012 had a rookie QB but again, a stud at RB and an elite defense. The 2013 Panthers had a good Oline, a promising young QB, some decent weapons on offense and a badass defense.
We seeing the trend yet?
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