Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Exactly what I mean, low self esteem.
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
I agree this is a building process and its a process that will span several seasons, not just this one, which is why I'm saying just trying to be 8-8 or maybe eek out the 6th seed this year is a worthless exercise. Build for the future, and in the future isn't Hoyer. The 8-8 and praying the AFC is bad enough that we can get the 6th seed is Hoyer. Competing for championships isn't Hoyer. Thus why not finding out what Manziel is right now, is only hurting the team, long term.
So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
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So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
Yeah and the chiefs had 6 pro bowlers on that 2012 team. Add a competent QB in Alex smith in 2013 and the turnaround is not that surprising. Nice try though
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If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it(you dont know that), he's an aging(he's 27) backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then...this is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. He's hampered by inaccuracy, which has been there since college so its not like he's getting better, and news flash people, Brian Hoyer is 29 years old.
Lets wake up people. The Browns are 3-3 right now after playing the 30th ranked schedule to this point. With a loss to the Jags.
Quit being delusional about what's going on here
I do know that, nothing Hoyer has EVER done has indicated he's an elite QB. Not a single thing. He's hampered by inaccuracy, which has been there since college so its not like he's getting better, and news flash people, Brian Hoyer is 29 years old.
Lets wake up people. The Browns are 3-3 right now after playing the 30th ranked schedule to this point. With a loss to the Jags.
Quit being delusional about what's going on here
Delusional? The Browns are 3-3 going into a very winnable home game against the Raiders. Gasp!!! They're even favored!!! My God, how did the Steelers ever lose to the Bucs, or THE DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPION SEAHAWKS lose to a shitty team like the Rams? It happens, every week in the NFL.
Your Manziel fetish may gain some traction if Hoyer is yet again lousy come Sunday, but I wouldn't count on it.
As to "elite" quarterbacks in the NFL- Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, and Drew Brees are currently looking up at the Browns in the standings.
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I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
We get it, you've made your (one and only) point over and over again.
It's really amazing how you can find so many ways to say the same thing. What's more amazing is that you seemingly only have an opinion about that one topic.
What's funny is that when hoyer is playing well you're (thankfully) nowhere to be seen. Once hoyer shits the bed, however, we can't shut you up.
The worst is when you say things like "we" or "our" in reference to the Browns. You clearly don't give a fuck about the browns winning. all you care about is your ego and manziels cock, which explains why you stroke both constantly.
And before you reiterate your point for the millionth time, no one is falling for your faux fence-sitting on Manziel. You're a broken record with a thinly veiled agenda and to think you're insulting someone else's intelligence is laughable.
Jesus tap dancing titty fucking Christ you're boring.
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Hoys stepped on his dick last week in Jax. Show me a talented QB who doesn't have a bad day in the office on Sunday (or Monday, or Thursay) and I'll be first in line to send hoys to the pine. The fucker ain't superman
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The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.
While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.
Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.
My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.
Mike.
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The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.
While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.
Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.
My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.
Mike.
The Coaches & Front Office will decide what is best for the Browns from week to week & season to season. They know more than we know.
While I love Manziels' skill set & think he may eventually be the "future", Hoyer is doing just fine, is proving to be a LEADER & yes, he had a bad game, ala Manning in last year's Super Bowl, yet no one screamed for Mannings' head.
Teams win & teams lose. QBs have good & bad games, but no old time Browns' Fan has seen better overall QB play/production in years than we are getting from Hoyer. Nothing wrong with liking Johnny, but keep it in perspective. He is playing behind a guy who is & has done well, has his teammates trusting him &, more important, has convinced the Coaches that he is the best chance to lead the Browns now.
My support goes to the players on the field & the coaches who decide to put them there.
Mike.
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EGGSFREAKIN EXACTLY ! And the above quote, comes from a guy who really
wanted us to draft Johnny Hastowaitandlearn, bigtime !
I disagreed with him, wasn't sure how his skills, while wild and successful in college, would translate
to the pros.
However, Canton Mike, one of those rare times we disagree on stuff, was CORRECT !
Johnny will have his time - and the more he learns, the more he will show what he can do. And yes, any qb
can have a rough outing. Brady has had a real tough time this year, and the questions were starting.
It happens. My opinion ? I think the last game, the Browns offense was pressing, had a ton of trouble
with an excellent front seven, and their timing went out the door.
The Jags just caught the Browns with three changes on their offensive line, and injuries to their defensive line.
The idea that they are the old, inept Jags of earlier years is bs. Go look at the talent they have. They are bound
to starting getting it together. Their HC just came on board in Jan, 2013.
It was bad timing for the Browns, and great timing for the Jags. It happens. It's the NFL, and the Browns
know what is going on and what they need to do.
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So its your calculation that teams go from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins with no middle ground in between? Because that's what it sounds like.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
Yes. All the time. In fact at least one team has gone from worst in their division to first in their division the next year....11 straight years.
Just last year the Chiefs went from 2-14 to 11-5.
It happens all the time.
And how many of those teams had good to great talent surrounding their QB before making the jump? Off the top of my head. 2011 Niners had an elite Oline, RB, TE and defense. The Hawks in 2012 had a rookie QB but again, a stud at RB and an elite defense. The 2013 Panthers had a good Oline, a promising young QB, some decent weapons on offense and a badass defense.
We seeing the trend yet?
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I'm almost to the point where the main reason I want hoyer to play well is so Stockton crawls back under the bridge. The board is so annoying when it's high jacked by the church of Manziel. The first six weeks of the season was a real breath of fresh air, should've known it wouldn't last.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
Not the church of Manziel, its the Church of Reality where we preach that Brian Hoyer isn't a Franchise QB.
How people can't separate the two only shows IQ levels.
I have my doubts that Manziel will be any good at all. However the Browns need to find out and if he does suck look over the next two years drafts to find the Franchise guy. Hell the Browns could trade Manziel today and by Sunday I'd be saying "They need to play Shaw" because I know what is obvious and that's Brian Hoyer is not a Franchise QB. The Browns need to find a Franchise QB. Both of those are true, and I bet most of you even agree with both those statements, but somehow in your brains you can't put the two statements together and understand what that means.
I don't understand what you're even trying to say anymore.
"Of course Hoyer is the best option" "only an idiot would think he's the future" "manziel is worse than Hoyer" "Hoyer is the worst in the NFL"
Just chill out and get ready for the game.
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If the Browns want to be winning franchise they need a franchise QB. Hoyer isn't it(you dont know that), he's an aging(he's 27) backup who needs a ton of help to avoid throwing 40% against the Jags. Thats not your guy. Manziel MIGHT be the guy. Won't know until he plays and gets to iron out his mistakes. If hes awful, then we know, we lose games, we get a higher draft pick this year, or if you want to give him a year next years, QB rich drafts. Thats how not playing Manziel is hurting the franchise. Not this years team, the franchise.
There's a reason why so many teams around the league are playing their rookies, because they know this too. Find your Franchise QB, and you'll never know until you let them play and work out all the rookie mistakes and we have big time college QBs coming out in the next few years, find out what you have now so you know what you need then...this is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
his is what they are doing with Hoyer right now. Finding out. Anybody who understands contracts and such knows that we have time with JFF and we dont with Hoyer. Hoyer has more experience and has earned the right to show what he's got, but if we dont check him now then well have no chance to see what he could have done. It's very basic and very simple. There is no rush. Your logic is so NOT logical.
Yup... we have time to find out about Manziel. Hoyer... not so much...
People on this board don't want to be contenders, they just want to not be a laughingstock. Being "Better then we have been" doesn't make us great or even good.
Save yourself... we are beyond hope...
And you are beyond toleration...
This is gold. Reflecting back on Sunday, there wasn't many times Hoyer had a good pocket.
The Jags were creating too much pressure with blitzes against our newly aligned offense line. And when he had time he wasn't settled
There were a couple times when he rushed himself, but he also threw some great passes. The touch pass to Austin for ~20 yds being one example. The sideline pass to Gabe after rolling left was simply gorgeous; it was one of those "only place it could be thrown" passes... low and away... the catch was actually OB with the feet in-bounds. Great catch of a great throw.
Zombo said:
Hoyer has played well enough to win in 5 of 6 games. Firmly his job. Awesome to have Johnny in the wings. But his fans need to shut the fuck up, it's not his time yet ... that time will come ... Hoyer's team, lets see how they rebound from their first meltdown.
What kinda odds are you giving on this line?
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You know it is good to see that this kid does get the whole team philosophy. Even though the media and some bandwagon BROWNS fan/JF homos have made it hard for the level headed fans that actually get it and know what's going on to get excited about a great situation to be in.
Media and some dipshit fans (don't really have to name names now do I?) have gotten me to the point where when I see him on tv for 5 seconds during a game it makes me sick to my stomach cause I know those certain morons start getting hard and rubbing themselves.
But I do like the fact we drafted him where we did and the fact he gets to grow up in the NFL the right way. All the other rookie qbs are struggling mightily this year and it is evident none of them are ready. I have faith when he does get his chance to shine he will be ready and in the right situation. Go BROWNS.
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^ ^ ^
Pretty much my take on JFF too.
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I threw up in my mouth a little when I saw your title. Forgive me. Automatic reaction to Johnny
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my investment in the kid is the same as the browns. first round pick that i hope pans out.
only time will tell. the furor to put him in the game RIGHT now is kind of strange. i mean if you are a manziel (JF) fan, wouldn't you want to make sure he's ready and capable of playing on this level? i mean nothing that i've seen (ok, i'm half-blind) in thepreseason or with his time on the field has shown me that he is (except playing WR).
throw him in and he totally blows? throw him in and he gets killed? throw him in and he's a superstar? given the odds, which way would you bet?
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my investment in the kid is the same as the browns. first round pick that i hope pans out.
only time will tell. the furor to put him in the game RIGHT now is kind of strange. i mean if you are a manziel (JF) fan, wouldn't you want to make sure he's ready and capable of playing on this level? i mean nothing that i've seen (ok, i'm half-blind) in thepreseason or with his time on the field has shown me that he is (except playing WR).
throw him in and he totally blows? throw him in and he gets killed? throw him in and he's a superstar? given the odds, which way would you bet?
my investment in the kid is the same as the browns. first round pick that i hope pans out.
only time will tell. the furor to put him in the game RIGHT now is kind of strange. i mean if you are a manziel (JF) fan, wouldn't you want to make sure he's ready and capable of playing on this level? i mean nothing that i've seen (ok, i'm half-blind) in thepreseason or with his time on the field has shown me that he is (except playing WR).
throw him in and he totally blows? throw him in and he gets killed? throw him in and he's a superstar? given the odds, which way would you bet?
The type of prospect he is history shows its a toss up between he blows and he gets killed. And that's what happens if he goes in to early. But the correct way the BROWNS and handling it, it's more between he blows and he breaks out. And that type of progress for this organization is exciting. But if u put a gun to my head I would put money on bust. Just don't think he has the correct skill set. But excited that I could be wrong.
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I'm ready bro. You won't be disappointed.
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I'm ready bro. You won't be disappointed.
I'm ready bro. You won't be disappointed.
SO gay.
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He should be starting like yesterday because this offense is designed specifically for him, and he'd get 600 yards every week on the ground alone and actually throw touchdowns and i'd break out my best scented lotion as I watch him play and Hoyer almost threw picks yesterday n johnny never throws anything but TDs.
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colt fucking mccoy.
HA!
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I threw up in my mouth a little when I saw your title. Forgive me. Automatic reaction to Johnny
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