We blew it on Watkins.

Manzier

@gftchris said:
We don't need a hall of fame receiver - if Gordon stays on the field, he'll be that. We need another capable player, that can at least draw a little coverage

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/18748-why-wide-receiver-is-the-least-important-starting-position-in-the-nfl

gftChris

@manzier said:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/18748-why-wide-receiver-is-the-least-important-starting-position-in-the-nfl

Sure, it's not compulsory. Pierre Garcon and DeSean Jackson aren't doing much for Washington, and Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans are doing less for Tampa. Megatron is still ringless.

But when you look at the group of people we've had the last few years, outside of Gordon - Little, Bess, Josh Cooper, Mohammed Massequoi, Brian Robiskie - you understand that you need at least serviceable people that either the QB can throw open, or the OC can scheme open.

And as it stands, we do have an elite WR in Gordon, so even though it's not necessary, we have one, so lets be happy with that.

Manzier

@gftchris said:

And as it stands, we do have an elite WR in Gordon, so even though it's not necessary, we have one, so lets be happy with that.

I am happy with JG. Thats my point. One star receiver, coupled with some serviceable ones and a decent TE, is all we need to win.

And, even with all those duds you listed(and, wow, they really sucked) Farmer was able to flip(and vastly improve) the WHOLE receiver corps without burning a single draft pick. I think we're on the same page here.

gftChris

@manzier said:

I am happy with JG. Thats my point. One star receiver, coupled with some serviceable ones and a decent TE, is all we need to win.

And, even with all those duds you listed(and, wow, they really sucked) Farmer was able to flip(and vastly improve) the WHOLE receiver corps without burning a single draft pick. I think we're on the same page here.

I think so. Love in time - I quite enjoy reading your posts on here, generally well reasoned and level headed.

Anyway, I did a little research - we have 11 players currently on the roster, who were on the roster, PS or IR at the end of the 2011 season:

Cameron

Thomas

Mack

Greco

Rubin

Sheard

Taylor

Haden

Skrine

Craig Robertson (PS)

And Christian Yount. Obviously.

For comparison, I did a similar check, and the Packers have 26.

Tour2ma

WR least important? Not seeing that at all...

Elite QBs can win without a strong WR corps... but they all want one.

For the bulk of the QBs, the "good" QBs, a strong #1 and strong #2 are borderline essential. The balance can be role players.

Then there are QBs that not even 3 strong WRs can help...

gftChris

@tour2ma said:

WR least important? Not seeing that at all...

Elite QBs can win without a strong WR corps... but they all want one.

For the bulk of the QBs, the "good" QBs, a strong #1 and strong #2 are borderline essential. The balance can be role players.

Then there are QBs that not even 3 strong WRs can help...

OK, think of it this way. If you're making every player in the league a free agent, and then holding a league-wide, 22-round draft to re-assign a starting 11 on O and D, at what point do you draft a WR? My guess is you go something like:

QB

LT

DE/OLB

CB

DL

OL

Then somewhere around here you look at WRs. I'm sure a few like Megatron go higher, to teams that maybe don't get an elite QB, but it's around the same time you're drafting TEs, RBs, OGs, and your 'fill in' D players.

hoorta

George C said:

Well, Farmer had a chance to draft greatness, and he chose another potential bust, and a draft pick instead..

If this doesn't pan out, add Farmer to the giant scrap heap of "great" cleveland General managers.

I'm just a little tired of bust draft picks that keep piling up..

Will you give it a rest already ragging on Gilbert? Totally oblivious to the rest of what Farmer assembled in in one off-season.

@calfoxwc said:

Let's have a contest of the worst, most ignorant threads started on this board.

This one will be nominated very quickly.....

I've had thoughts of locking it Cal- lots of ignorance floating around in it.

@gftchris said:

Sure, it's not compulsory. Pierre Garcon and DeSean Jackson aren't doing much for Washington, and Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans are doing less for Tampa. Megatron is still ringless.

But when you look at the group of people we've had the last few years, outside of Gordon - Little, Bess, Josh Cooper, Mohammed Massequoi, Brian Robiskie - you understand that you need at least serviceable people that either the QB can throw open, or the OC can scheme open.

And as it stands, we do have an elite WR in Gordon, so even though it's not necessary, we have one, so lets be happy with that.

Exactly. You need guys who run decent routes, are faster than the Brian Robiskis of the world, and have better hands than Greg Little. I agree with Tour to an extent- your #1 & #2 guys better at least be well above average.

Manzier

@gftchris said:
OK, think of it this way. If you're making every player in the league a free agent, and then holding a league-wide, 22-round draft to re-assign a starting 11 on O and D, at what point do you draft a WR?

Bam!! Very good perspective.

Id give up my first 2 picks AND go for a WR. Hahahaha

Clevfan4life

@manzier said:

I am happy with JG. Thats my point. One star receiver, coupled with some serviceable ones and a decent TE, is all we need to win.

And, even with all those duds you listed(and, wow, they really sucked) Farmer was able to flip(and vastly improve) the WHOLE receiver corps without burning a single draft pick. I think we're on the same page here.

I'm happy with JG too, when he's on the field. But are you really saying you think Gordon is over his problems and there's no way in hell he's gonna get his 4th strike? Cause next time it's "at least" a year. This is why it was so important to get a #1 either through the draft or FA this year.

Clevfan4life

@calfoxwc said:

Let's have a contest of the worst, most ignorant threads started on this board.

This one will be nominated very quickly.....

I nominate you to stfu. How about that?

Manzier

@clevfan4life said:

I'm happy with JG too, when he's on the field. But are you really saying you think Gordon is over his problems ?

Yes. I think he is. AND, if he isn't, I think we can get a great receiver for less than our top pick.

Tour2ma

@gftchris said:

My guess is you go something like:

QB / LT / DE-OLB / CB / DL / OL

Two things:

Not really that close to my order... In general, I'm an up the middle guy.
Odd how far that order is (and mine would be) from a Fantasy order, where top RBs go first.

Tour2ma

@clevfan4life said:
I'm happy with JG too, when he's on the field. But are you really saying you think Gordon is over his problems...

I thought this whole last episode was 2nd hand smoke and was bullshit, yes, over...

Clevfan4life

@manzier said:
Yes. I think he is. AND, if he isn't, I think we can get a great receiver for less than our top pick.

what information do you have that says he's over it? I mean you'd like to think the guy is grateful as shit he's still on an NFL roster and dodged a major fucking bullet. But what do you know that makes you so sure of this that if you were the GM you also wouldn't have taken Watkins? This is what is puzzling me. How on earth do we knwo that Gordon isn't going to get popped next week for something? His past record makes it almost a certainty that something else at some point is going to come down.

Clevfan4life

@tour2ma said:
I thought this whole last episode was 2nd hand smoke and was bullshit, yes, over...

yeah but didn't he get a DUI while the investigation into that 3rd strike was in progress?

gftChris

@tour2ma said:

Two things:

Not really that close to my order... In general, I'm an up the middle guy.

Odd how far that order is (and mine would be) from a Fantasy order, where top RBs go first.

OK sure, if you're a "teams are built from the inside out" guy - and the more I see what a dominant OL can do to a team, the more I'm leaning that way - then pick up more linemen higher up. But in your scenario, where do you draft a WR? Assuming you pick up a QB before WR, you also get a DL or two, and OL or two, you're still picking WR at best 6th.

Clevfan4life

wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need?

thenew23

This conversation is still going on?

gftChris

@clevfan4life said:
wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need?

To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on.

Clevfan4life

@gftchris said:
To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on.

Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been?