We blew it on Watkins.
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wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need?
wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need?
To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on.
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wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need?
To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on.
To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on.
Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been?
-
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Unfortunately, cleve's stupid ass repititive whining, ignorant bluster, and dumping
on Gilbert is causing quite a stir. He's worse than boring..... this thread is
not so bad except for the parts where he apparently would love
to give Sammy Watkins great big smoochies...must have a "Bighead Sammy" on his wall.
-
To a degree, but it's easier to build a winning team with quality at certain positions. It's easier to find quality starters at some positions later on.
Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been?
Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been?
If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners.
You're kind of defeating yourself here...
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Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been?
If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners.
You're kind of defeating yourself here...
If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners.....a VERY very solid point there. Don't think you can twist that logic, though someone will try.
You're kind of defeating yourself here...seems to happen often
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Taylor Gabriel is 7th amongst all rookies in yards and 1st in average
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George C said:
This is funny..
Whoa, somehow, you guys think draft picks get us to the playoffs. There is a dumpster fire behind our stadium, and it's filled with first round busts, second round busts, and third round busts.
I'll take a star, rather than draft picks because our boat load of prime picks has sunk to the bottom of Lake Erie.
Barky Mingo anyone?
Shall I go on?
it's all a crapshoot dude. mingo was great at LSU but so far he hasn't transitioned his game to the NFL. partly because quite frankly i don't think this staff knows how to use him and partly is mental. i think he has the physical skills but he's just missing it. i'll give him another year.
why is everybody blowing watkins? because he had a good game against the jets? THE FRIGGIN JETS? do you know how bad their D backfield is?
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George C said:
Shall I go on?
No. Wish you had never started really.
And, yes, the road to the playoffs is 100% through the draft. It's proven over and over and over again. To bad Buff wont be participating in picking any of the top talent next year.
And, to beat a dead horse, that heap of bad draft picks wasn't made by this FO. So the constant arguments about our OLD FO have zero bearing on the PRESENT .
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Doesn't the current rules that basically flag a CB for looking at a WR crosseyed, kind of necessitate now that you have a corp of WR's that can go vertical and run under anything? Like those Rams teams when Warner was there.....if they had these rules how much better would have they have been?
If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners.
You're kind of defeating yourself here...
If anything, that means that an even higher premium is placed on DBs, and it's even easier for WRs to get open, so you can succeed with less talented route runners.
You're kind of defeating yourself here...
I see your logic but like I said before, what would those receivers of Warner's have done with these rules? The problem with some of these new rules is that it almost doesn't matter how good a DB is in certain situations...if the ball is thrown correctly and the receiver has run his route, it's a completion. What I think you want now from DB's is that they don't get left once the catch is made. I'm not downplaying the importance of DB's. But what I won't accept is the notion that someone like Watkins or some other major #1's out there would be having the Browns in a better position. There's no question of that. If it wasn't the case, why do any of you care when Gordon gets back? He's not important, we can make it work with our 2nd level talent so fuck it who cares if JG ever plays for us again? You all know that's ridiculous. You all know what the potential of this offense is when you have Gordon back and Cameron is healthy. I'm not saying that every single year you go out and slobber over a #1 receiver. But this year, with Gordons problems....I really don't know what you guys are debating. Watkins is proving we made the wrong call. And to their unexpected credit, guys like Skrine Gipson and Williams are also proving it was the wrong pick. It remains to be seen if it's a horribly wrong pick or not. But how any of you can watch what Sammy's doing in Buffalo and not at least shake your head thinking wow that could have been for us...I don't know what game you're watching. It's not just the Jets game either. Kid is making spectacular catches. If you think Hoyers thrown some shit balls this year, you should see some of the catches that Watkins has reeled in. NO cleveland receiver makes those catches, not Gordon not anybody. We've been screaming at our WR's for years for dropping balls that were thrown right at their sternum.....another reason why last offseason we needed to look WR talent.
-
Unfortunately, cleve's stupid ass repititive whining, ignorant bluster, and dumping
on Gilbert is causing quite a stir. He's worse than boring..... this thread is
not so bad except for the parts where he apparently would love
to give Sammy Watkins great big smoochies...must have a "Bighead Sammy" on his wall.
Unfortunately, cleve's stupid ass repititive whining, ignorant bluster, and dumping
on Gilbert is causing quite a stir. He's worse than boring..... this thread is
not so bad except for the parts where he apparently would love
to give Sammy Watkins great big smoochies...must have a "Bighead Sammy" on his wall.
I'm not dumping on Gilbert. Saying Watkins is so far outperforming Gilbert by a vast sum is a completely accurate statement. Never said I don't think Gilbert won't turn out. Just said Watkins was a no brainer at a position we were lost at with Gordons problems. Nothing that's been offered up so far in this thread has even remotely refuted that logic. IN any case i thought I nominated you to stfu. What happened to you shutting the fuck up?
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George C said:
Shall I go on?
No. Wish you had never started really.
And, yes, the road to the playoffs is 100% through the draft. It's proven over and over and over again. To bad Buff wont be participating in picking any of the top talent next year.
And, to beat a dead horse, that heap of bad draft picks wasn't made by this FO. So the constant arguments about our OLD FO have zero bearing on the PRESENT .
No. Wish you had never started really.
And, yes, the road to the playoffs is 100% through the draft. It's proven over and over and over again. To bad Buff wont be participating in picking any of the top talent next year.
And, to beat a dead horse, that heap of bad draft picks wasn't made by this FO. So the constant arguments about our OLD FO have zero bearing on the PRESENT .
Yeah too bad for Buf they may have landed a better receiver than JG when both their careers are said and done. I think they're ok with it. I really do. And the the road to playoffs is 100% through smart management of personnel....thorugh the draft and FA. It's proven over and over again.
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I'm not dumping on Gilbert. Saying Watkins is so far outperforming Gilbert by a vast sum is a completely accurate statement. Never said I don't think Gilbert won't turn out. Just said Watkins was a no brainer at a position we were lost at with Gordons problems.
*****************************************************
No, you just want to hump Watkins, and he isn't in town and you are forever bee-acced and bellyaching about him.
If Watkins was such a "no-brainer", then you ignore his maturity. What is the POINT about bitching about
the Browns making different moves? Dumbass. He wasn't the right guy for the Browns:
From his profile that was on NFL.COM
"
WEAKNESSESProduction results heavily from a gimmicky offense. Routes could use some more polish. Does not consistently work the middle of the field. Could improve field awareness. Is still immature and could require some time to acclimate to an NFL playbook. Could stand to improve ball security and do a better job fielding punts."
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IN any case i thought I nominated you to stfu. What happened to you shutting the fuck up? Cleve******************************************************************I lost the election. You won, high school "wants to hump sammy watkins" blowhard.
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I'm not dumping on Gilbert. Saying Watkins is so far outperforming Gilbert by a vast sum is a completely accurate statement. Never said I don't think Gilbert won't turn out. Just said Watkins was a no brainer at a position we were lost at with Gordons problems.
*****************************************************
No, you just want to hump Watkins, and he isn't in town and you are forever bee-acced and bellyaching about him.
If Watkins was such a "no-brainer", then you ignore his maturity. What is the POINT about bitching about
the Browns making different moves? Dumbass. He wasn't the right guy for the Browns:
From his profile that was on NFL.COM
"
WEAKNESSESProduction results heavily from a gimmicky offense. Routes could use some more polish. Does not consistently work the middle of the field. Could improve field awareness. Is still immature and could require some time to acclimate to an NFL playbook. Could stand to improve ball security and do a better job fielding punts."
Could stand to improve ball security and do a better job fielding punts."
Oh he was a suspect punt returner in college? Fuck my ass i didn't know. Never mind this whole we missed on Watkins thing, clearly we didn't. My god can you imagine him coming in here and ruining our spectacular special teams play this year? Fuck he would have ruined us. We'd be lucky to be 1-6 right now with an asshole like that on the field.
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wouldn't you say it depens on the WR? YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there". Same with any position really. Only QB's get a slight pass cause you have to have someone who's not an idiot taking snaps. But at almost every other position don't you look at the type of talent and how it fits on your team? And aren't there some talents you have to take, like Clowney, even though they don't fill an immediate need?
wouldn't you say it depens on the WR?
YOu can't say "we should draft a wr here or there".
You can say "it depends on the WR", but that complicates the discussion beyond hope. As does the "draft" analogy as it implies diminishing skills with each successive pick.
The discussion is around weighting of relative value of 22 positions... 25, if you count STs. Stay generic and then you can say "where you would rank your WRs". Plural because you have to pick 2 and I doubt most folk would go back to back.
OK sure, if you're a "teams are built from the inside out" guy - and the more I see what a dominant OL can do to a team, the more I'm leaning that way - then pick up more linemen higher up. But in your scenario, where do you draft a WR? Assuming you pick up a QB before WR, you also get a DL or two, and OL or two, you're still picking WR at best 6th.
First on Offense would be: QB then LT and C... FB would be last.
First on
ILB then SS and FS.WR might not be top ten... but would definitely not be last.
Anyway... whole notha thread on this...
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I really hate that the Bills are doing so good this year. The same way I felt about the Colts last year. We keep trading down with this teams that blow up, of course, Indy has Luck, who should have been ours. Indy tanked purposely and should have been penalized their first rounder for that shit. But anyways, it's what it is.
I was hoping for a top ten pick from the Bills but there is really good talent throughout the first round, depending on what you need. I was thinking a standout FS, but Gipson has been playing light's out this last year and a half, so maybe start looking into a SS to replace Whitner down the road, start grooming now, he's not going to live forever. I don't mean throw a first-rounder at a project future probowler, or maybe I do?, but if we do it's a good problem to have, we have so much talent right now, I'm surprised you guys aren't more excited.
Two first rounders and no really GLARING needs to date. Another probowl G? What would you change about the D? They are looking pretty good out there, even with the injuries... We really need a kicker, for real though, first round???
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Gilbert >>> Watkins.
How many catches does watkins have PER GAME? Gilbert plays a key role every play, while Watkins does nothing if he doesn't catch.
You know what else all those star receivers have in common? Zero super bowl rings. Dez may get one this year... because his role has been diminished.
WR is nothing but a shiny hood ornament. OL makes the offense go.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Gilbert >>> Watkins.
How many catches does watkins have PER GAME? Gilbert plays a key role every play, while Watkins does nothing if he doesn't catch.
You know what else all those star receivers have in common? Zero super bowl rings. Dez may get one this year... because his role has been diminished.
WR is nothing but a shiny hood ornament. OL makes the offense go.
Gilbert >>> Watkins.
How many catches does watkins have PER GAME? Gilbert plays a key role every play, while Watkins does nothing if he doesn't catch.
This is without a doubt one of the most ignorant, assbackward, hillbilly toothed arguments I've seen here.
Sammy Watkins very well may win rookie of the year if he keeps it up and is responsible for Buffalo's success with 2 hack QB's. Watkins currently averages 8 catches a game for 15.5 YPC while getting double teamed in certain occasions. To say he does nothing makes you look like a Retarded fucking asshole.
Gilbert until the past 2 weeks has been demoted and only been on the field in certain situations. (Kwan Williams was playing over him) and even Mike Pettine said he wasn't ready. GILBERT DOES NOT HAVE A KEY ROLE EVERY PLAY. Joe Haden and Skrine our the 2 key corners and Gilbert is starting to see more action.
I like that Gilbert is improving but you're a misinformed doofus
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Gilbert >>> Watkins.
How many catches does watkins have PER GAME? Gilbert plays a key role every play, while Watkins does nothing if he doesn't catch.
This is without a doubt one of the most ignorant, assbackward, hillbilly toothed arguments I've seen here.
Sammy Watkins very well may win rookie of the year if he keeps it up and is responsible for Buffalo's success with 2 hack QB's. Watkins currently averages 8 catches a game for 15.5 YPC while getting double teamed in certain occasions. To say he does nothing makes you look like a Retarded fucking asshole.
Gilbert until the past 2 weeks has been demoted and only been on the field in certain situations. (Kwan Williams was playing over him) and even Mike Pettine said he wasn't ready. GILBERT DOES NOT HAVE A KEY ROLE EVERY PLAY. Joe Haden and Skrine our the 2 key corners and Gilbert is starting to see more action.
I like that Gilbert is improving but you're a misinformed doofus
This is without a doubt one of the most ignorant, assbackward, hillbilly toothed arguments I've seen here.
Sammy Watkins very well may win rookie of the year if he keeps it up and is responsible for Buffalo's success with 2 hack QB's. Watkins currently averages 8 catches a game for 15.5 YPC while getting double teamed in certain occasions. To say he does nothing makes you look like a Retarded fucking asshole.
Gilbert until the past 2 weeks has been demoted and only been on the field in certain situations. (Kwan Williams was playing over him) and even Mike Pettine said he wasn't ready. GILBERT DOES NOT HAVE A KEY ROLE EVERY PLAY. Joe Haden and Skrine our the 2 key corners and Gilbert is starting to see more action.
I like that Gilbert is improving but you're a misinformed doofus
Maybe he didn't say it in the best way, but I think all he meant was CB is a much more important position than WR overall - IE secondary play makes a bigger difference than WR play in determining the outcome of most games. Also, it's a lot harder to get good CB play especially with modern NFL rules favoring the WR so much, whereas finding good WR talent isn't nearly as hard to do.
If Gilbert turns into a pro bowl level talent in the next couple years, make sure someone brings this thread back
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