On Hoyer, our Offense and the return of Gordon
-
Good write up, Bob. I disagree with much of it, but it is well written...
Unless he can play Center, I do not see Gordon helping the run game.
I do not see JM's insertion as a net positive at this point. Whatever positive his legs and stonger arm might bring would be more than offset by his lack of read skills. Furthermore, if he runs with the level of discipline he did in college, he won't be running for long.
-
When Gordon returns, do we have to cut someone from the roster?
-
When Gordon returns, do we have to cut someone from the roster?
When Gordon returns, do we have to cut someone from the roster?
Of course.
Logic says it will likely be Rodney Smith. He's only a second year player, so he can go to PS if they'd like to keep him.
-
not unless we find someone to return kicks.............
Bring back Josh Cribbs old ass
-
Bring back Josh Cribbs old ass
For the love of god...please don't start that again...
-
We've become predicable and readable. Time for the O to change its tune. Use the pass to set up the run. Spread the field. Lots of dunk passes to the RB's, screen passes, etc. The fist key is execution. The second key is do the opposite of what the defense expects. The third key is misdirection. In the hands of a skilled OC, the strategic advantage is always in favor of the offense.
-
Frenchie, I totally agree.
I think the pass opens up the run in today's NFL. I would love to see an up tempo offense that uses screens, dunk passes, and draws.
I've been saying if we can get a screen to the Crow, he's good for 15-30 if he can get past that initial block.
-
We just need to mix it up more. The three play actions in a row got me so pissed off. "Oh its working! Lets do it again!" C'mon Man!
It doesn't seem like we run many plays where Gabriel or Hawkins get the ball with space to work.. Gabriel is quick
-
Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL.
We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk).Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent.
He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th.
He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working.
He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really.
Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play.
Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks.
In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL.The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th.
As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns.
I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous.
So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now.
-
Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL.
We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk).Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent.
He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th.
He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working.
He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really.
Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play.
Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks.
In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL.The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th.
As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns.
I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous.
So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now.
Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL.
We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk).
Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent.
He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th.
He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working.
He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really.
Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play.
Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks.
In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL.
The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th.
As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns.
I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous.
So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now.
Hey Stockton, your shit stinks no matter which asshole you squeeze it out of. Just sayin.
-
Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL.
We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk).
Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent.
He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th.
He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working.
He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really.
Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play.
Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks.
In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL.
The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th.
As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns.
I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous.
So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now.
Hey Stockton, your shit stinks no matter which asshole you squeeze it out of. Just sayin.
-
Stockton what is your personal problem with Hoyer? You're being a complete dick about the best QB situation we've had in years. You're somehow sour that Hoyer isn't an Andrew Luck. He's the smartest QB we've had in I don't know how long..he throws a nice deep ball over the top, maybe not 70 yds over the top but he gets it about 55 without floating it. Just leave it alone. There's nothing right now that we've got on our roster that is better. We "know" that. JF got his shots in preseason and showed some serious issues with his throwing mechanics but most importantly...showed some serious problems with game management. He didn't know what was going on and the situation he was in, had to call multiple timeouts that had that happened during the reg season may have royally fucked us. He's just not ready yet. So just shut up and let this play out.
-
Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL.
We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk).Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent.
He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th.
He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working.
He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really.
Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play.
Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks.
In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL.The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th.
As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns.
I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous.
So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now.
Hoyer is eeking along just well enough to avoid the inevitable, but if you delve deeply you will see that ultimately this is a self-destructive process for the browns. The browns offense is babying the quarterback, putting him in extremely favorable situations, and has played the weakest schedule in the NFL.
We have no playoff future withthis approach, so IMO we are just wasting our time (but conservatively buying enough cheap wins to keep the coaching staff around for an extra year with little risk).
Hoyer is now 'up' to 30th in the NFL incompletion percentage, so he is just not moving the ball consistently. When he does complete, the average yardage is decent.
He is 25th in TD percentage though, also reflective of the fact that we are not asking much of him. He has thrown 100 fewer passes than your top tier quarterbacks (that's 2 or 3 full games' worth), and he's been well protected, despite his lack of mobility, at 15th in sacks. His QBR, an overrated stat, leaves him at 19th.
He is in the top 6 in avoiding picks,which is why this plan is still working.
He's near the bottom in total passes and sacks, so he's well protected. Sheltered really.
Yet, despite all that, he's still near the bottom of all NFL QB's in touchdown percentage and completion percentage, really two of the three most important QB production categories. He's proving to be a competent game manager at best. If your squad was otherwise super bowl worthy, you might get a playoff win with him. But he's never going to earn you a win with his own play.
Looking at the opposition he's played really sheds light on the situation. The best pass defense he's played yet is Washington's defense (14th in pass yards allowed, but only 31st in the league in picking off the QB). Other than that the teams he's played are 29th, 24th, 20th and 18th in the league in picks.
In passing yards allowed, the next best defense he's played is 19th; then 20th, 25th, 26th, 29th, and 31st. In other words, he's played the least effective defenses in the NFL.
The upcoming schedule is not going to be much of a test, either. The bengals are another mid pack pass D. The Texans Ravens and Colts are the very worst 3 passing defenses other than Jax, who already made Hoyer look bad. Carolina is 24th. Buffalo is the only top 10 passing defense that the browns will play *all year*, and they are 9th.
As long as Hoyer keeps eeking along with some wins against this schedule, I guess you can't pull him, but its fool's gold and wasted time and opportunity for the browns.
I think the minute the browns slip out of legitimate playoff expectation with a couple of losses, the experiment starts. I don't think there is any way you would do much worse with a fiery, uber- talented rookie like Manziel from here on out, but the upside is tremendous.
So if Hoyer keeps limping along like this against the worst pass defenses in the league, the browns are getting a very false sense of security out of Hoyer. I'd start working Manziel in now.
Nice try Stockboy
-
CBR. I am not sure which Hoyer you are looking at.. Liars use stats and stats LIE..
You are looking at statistics and obviously NOT WATCHING GAMES..
I see Hoyer as the ONLY thing keeping us in many of these games through pure will power at times.. Our running game dried up 3 games ago and the only thing keeping us going is some incredible throws on 3rd and long, more times than I can count...
With the NOW pathetic play calling coming from our OC's, it is on Hoyer to continually dig us out on 3rd and long... Run right... Loss of 1.. Run Right gain 2... 3rd and 9 or 11... Expect Hoyer to throw into continual double and triple coverage and STILL puts the ball in there more times than not...
I know Hoyer isn't going to be our long term QB.. He is 29 years old and likely only has a few more years as starter, no matter where he is(hopefully as a Brown)... Manziel, though I am sure he hates it.. IS LUCKY AS FUCK to get to sit and learn the NFL game.. He will be 23 years old or so when he is given the reigns(or sooner if Hoyer falters) and he will have the benefit of having worked behind such a hard working and well prepared QB in Hoyer.....
I have nearly no doubt(maybe just a little
) that had we thrown Manziel in after the Jacksonville fiasco, that we LOSE the next two games badly... Hoyer won those ugly games for us.. Him and our under appreciated Offensive Line.Robert
GO BROWN.. KILL THE BENGALS!!!!
-
CBR. I am not sure which Hoyer you are looking at.. Liars use stats and stats LIE..
You are looking at statistics and obviously NOT WATCHING GAMES..
I see Hoyer as the ONLY thing keeping us in many of these games through pure will power at times.. Our running game dried up 3 games ago and the only thing keeping us going is some incredible throws on 3rd and long, more times than I can count...
With the NOW pathetic play calling coming from our OC's, it is on Hoyer to continually dig us out on 3rd and long... Run right... Loss of 1.. Run Right gain 2... 3rd and 9 or 11... Expect Hoyer to throw into continual double and triple coverage and STILL puts the ball in there more times than not...
I know Hoyer isn't going to be our long term QB.. He is 29 years old and likely only has a few more years as starter, no matter where he is(hopefully as a Brown)... Manziel, though I am sure he hates it.. IS LUCKY AS FUCK to get to sit and learn the NFL game.. He will be 23 years old or so when he is given the reigns(or sooner if Hoyer falters) and he will have the benefit of having worked behind such a hard working and well prepared QB in Hoyer.....
I have nearly no doubt(maybe just a little
) that had we thrown Manziel in after the Jacksonville fiasco, that we LOSE the next two games badly... Hoyer won those ugly games for us.. Him and our under appreciated Offensive Line.Robert
GO BROWN.. KILL THE BENGALS!!!!
CBR. I am not sure which Hoyer you are looking at.. Liars use stats and stats LIE..
You are looking at statistics and obviously NOT WATCHING GAMES..
I see Hoyer as the ONLY thing keeping us in many of these games through pure will power at times.. Our running game dried up 3 games ago and the only thing keeping us going is some incredible throws on 3rd and long, more times than I can count...
With the NOW pathetic play calling coming from our OC's, it is on Hoyer to continually dig us out on 3rd and long... Run right... Loss of 1.. Run Right gain 2... 3rd and 9 or 11... Expect Hoyer to throw into continual double and triple coverage and STILL puts the ball in there more times than not...
I know Hoyer isn't going to be our long term QB.. He is 29 years old and likely only has a few more years as starter, no matter where he is(hopefully as a Brown)... Manziel, though I am sure he hates it.. IS LUCKY AS FUCK to get to sit and learn the NFL game.. He will be 23 years old or so when he is given the reigns(or sooner if Hoyer falters) and he will have the benefit of having worked behind such a hard working and well prepared QB in Hoyer.....
I have nearly no doubt(maybe just a little
) that had we thrown Manziel in after the Jacksonville fiasco, that we LOSE the next two games badly... Hoyer won those ugly games for us.. Him and our under appreciated Offensive Line.Robert
GO BROWN.. KILL THE BENGALS!!!!
It's just that only the bad stats are considered in this thread.
Not the fact he's #1-3 in yards per completion, TD/int ratio, etc.
I'd love nothing more than to see us crush the Bengals though.
(You know in cincy they have a tailgate lot for browns fans :-P)
-
I like Hoyer but it really seems like sometime he "has it" and other times ehhhh not so much..
I guess it's better than the QB play i've been watching since DA in 07..
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login