Hoyer's best game.... And no TDs thrown
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i liked the farmer pettine hire, considering their resumes. both come from playing football. one was a great scout and one was a great defensive coach. like edward said above the only gripe i had to this point was with the defense. we were ranked pretty high last year and to switch schemes again with players playing out of their natural positions have/had people scratching their heads. with phil taylor back vs. cinci and the team gelling at the right time they finally looked like they should have out of the gate.
although i've loved everything this FO has done to this point, the fact that farmer will just let the hoyer contract go to the end of the season has me baffled. either hoyer plays us into the playoffs and his price skyrockets or we finish 4-5 games better than we have in 7 years........does that matter? we haven't seen a decent starting QB around here that's put up these #'s since kosar. that's a loooooooooong time.
why fuck around? you want to see what manziel has? really? if that's the reasoning behind all of this then that's strike one against farmer IMO.
with phil taylor back vs. cinci and the (defense) gelling at the right time they finally looked like they should have out of the gate.
Don't see how you can say "should have" since as you point out it was a new scheme. I think in retrospect our expectations were unrealistic given the change.
either hoyer plays us into the playoffs and his price skyrockets or we finish 4-5 games better than we have in 7 years........does that matter?
Price-wise it may matter, but not nearly as much as it has to this point. Assuming Hoyer's camp wants a deal ASAP (not much evidence of that though), the longer the deal takes the more the FO gets to see the goods.
why fuck around? you want to see what manziel has? really? if that's the reasoning behind all of this then that's strike one against farmer IMO.
Again, no evidence that Manziel is the one being evaluated... so I think Farmer is still strikeless.
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the elephant that brought the 3 ring circus to town?
i heard they're teaching it how to paint.
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the elephant that brought the 3 ring circus to town?
i heard they're teaching it how to paint.
i heard they're teaching it how to paint.
... by numbers...
George C said:
After signing an extension, and after opposing defenses had another shot at his game, shutting him down became the norm, and he became a huge disappointment.
His name was Ryan Fitzpatrick.
How you guys deal with that elephant in the room is an even bigger challenge than making a deal with Hoyer.
Hoyer is NOT going to want to see Manziel in the room next year, no matter how well he paints a group hug picture.
Plus Ryan was holding back E.J.
As for challenges... they are completely different.
Manziel is Pettine's... And as mik has intimated, he's handled that quite well... breaking the young colt while steadying the exercise pony turned thoroughbred.
Hoyer is Farmer's Challenge.
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George C said:
How you guys deal with that elephant in the room is an even bigger challenge than making a deal with Hoyer.
Hoyer is NOT going to want to see Manziel in the room next year, no matter how well he paints a group hug picture.
Bullsh**. If Hoyer is given the money he probably deserves AND is entrenched as the starting QB, he won't give a damn if Manziel continues to develop behind him. We have all the leverage with Manziel... he's on his rookie deal, not making much money. We don't have to do anything with him until the time comes where he either HAS to play b/c of injury, or we try to showcase him at the end of his contract to try and get something back in trade. There is no "Manziel Elephant" in my opinion... This offseason is all about paying Brian Hoyer whatever it takes to keep him on the Browns, while hoping to avoid an uber-inflated deal, but if we have to pay it... then so be-it...
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George C said:
Devil's advocate.
Another reason Farmer is waiting could be from a lesson learned from us here in Buffalo..
We gave a journeyman a shot, and he did very, very well. His play elevated the rest of the team, we won some games from QB play we haven't seen around these parts since the 90's, and everyone thought it would be a great idea to lock him up.
After signing an extension, and after opposing defenses had another shot at his game, shutting him down became the norm, and he became a huge disappointment.
His name was Ryan Fitzpatrick.
I'm guessing Farmer/Pettine just want to see more. Cleveland wants him, Hoyer obviously would prefer to stay in Cleveland.
The problem with all of this is some homeless dude talking to your owner, and your owner actually listening and quoting the bum.
Im sure he pushed Manziel on Farmer, and you drafted a guy who expects to start.
How you guys deal with that elephant in the room is an even bigger challenge than making a deal with Hoyer.
Hoyer is NOT going to want to see Manziel in the room next year, no matter how well he paints a group hug picture.
Sorry, Hoyer != Fitzpatrick
2009: Fitzpatrick with bills, Record: 4-4, 69 passer rating, more interceptions than touch downs
2010: Fitzpatrick with bills, Record: 4-9, 81 rating (best season?)
2011: Fitzpatrick with bills, Record: 6-10, 79 rating (23 interceptions)
He had some flashes and big games, but totally didn't prove those seasons he was a long term starter.
Hoyer, on the other hand:
Record: 9-3, rating of 86.5 (90 so far in 2014), 15 TD, 7 INT
Manziel isn't and hasn't been a problem. He isn't expressing frustration as a backup, he's studying the playbook, he's keeping his head down, he works hard in practice, the coaches and players like him - etc, etc. Hoyer hasn't indicated that he has a problem with Manziel, either. Why does everybody keep making this stuff up?
If it becomes a problem we can send him to Jerry for more than he's worth.
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What I have noticed about Hoyer is that the more he plays you, the better he gets against you. That's HUGE for a QB. Note the second half of the road game at Pittsburgh, comeback at TN, second game against Pittsburgh he blew them up. He played Cincinnati and beat them last year so I saw Thursday night coming. We played Baltimore hard and Brian had a very nice game against them the first time, but it was a home game. I believe that is the test for Brian. The road game at Baltimore. How he plays in that game will be the biggest game of his life. Those guys in that locker room know that and if they go out there and put on a show like they did against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh the second games they play each other. That's it. There is no longer any question who is our QB of the future. Playoffs start in the division, if hoyer proves he can dismantle those teams...on the road...all bets are off. I fully expect them to whip Cincinnati at home. These guys are playing for each other. They like their coaches, their veteran leaders on defense and Brian has them believing in him. That right there is the answer we have all waited for. How glorious for the coaching staff to be able to coach and have their guys giving them there best games. No diva hand holding, just coaching guys that believe in them and starving for that consistency.
I also think it could be a big test for Manziel. If he can stay focused, not bored, not create waves, jump into his job of studying the game and getting coached up,willing to wait his turn, he will have proven me wrong. There cant be a bunch of irrelevant media distraction going into next season. they already paid those dues. whether that happens, i guess is up to Manziel. what matters more, being the star of his own team, or taking the time to put inthe work to get there. That remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen if the media and Manziel's management team allow that to happen. Farmer has to say he's first round talent in public. If we need to trade him, we need the league to still be willing to give up big stuff to get him.
Of course, this is all predicated on how Hoyer finishes the division, but I believe.
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George C said:
First, Fitz sucked moose cock, and the Bills paid him too soon, that was my point.
Also,
If you think for one second that johnny football will back up Brian Hoyer like a good boy....then you are nuts.
I mean really here.....Haven't you seen this 100 times before?
Hoyer won't be allowed the Privilege of a mediocre game without the fan base chanting for Manziel, and Manziel...and everyone else will simply be waiting for Hoyer to fail.
It's not a healthy environment any way you cut it.
I'm sure it can be done, but do you really want a QB controversy just as things are starting to look bright?
Hoyer has had multiple less-than-enthralling games in his short time here.
He's still the starter. We're still in first. Manziel is still on the bench.
Not sure what point you're trying to get at...but I'd say get there already.
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George C said:
First, Fitz sucked moose cock, and the Bills paid him too soon, that was my point.
Also,
If you think for one second that johnny football will back up Brian Hoyer like a good boy....then you are nuts.
I mean really here.....Haven't you seen this 100 times before?
Hoyer won't be allowed the Privilege of a mediocre game without the fan base chanting for Manziel, and Manziel...and everyone else will simply be waiting for Hoyer to fail.
It's not a healthy environment any way you cut it.
I'm sure it can be done, but do you really want a QB controversy just as things are starting to look bright?
He's already had some mediocre/bad games. Still won a few of them. No one except the manziel homos are chanting for that kid to start.
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George C said:
Sign Hoyer, develop a similar QB for the bench, and trade Manziel to Dallas for another high draft choice.
So, the answer is to sign Hoyer now.
George C said:
We gave a journeyman a shot.... and everyone thought it would be a great idea to lock him up.
After signing an extension......... he became a huge disappointment.
I'm guessing Farmer/Pettine just want to see more......
Because when Buffalo did it, it was a huge mistake......makes complete sense.
Im guessing Farmer wants to see more too. Especially since he just said so.
As a general rule, Im thinking Buffalo probably isn't the team Farmer wants emulate. Just a hunch.
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George C said:
I made my point in the post you quoted.
I'm sorry if it flew right over your head...
Oh, I thought you were actually trying to contribute to conversation.
Didn't realize you were just a dumb fucking hillbilly. My fault.
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