Hoyer's contract

Westside Steve

@canton-dawg said:

The Hoyer pick in today's game hit the WR in the chest then bounced off of his knee.

I would call that one bad luck.

Yeah not that one, Mike. I just point out he's gotten lucky an awful lot of times with potential interceptions being dropped or missed.

WSS

Zombo

@tour2ma said:

Amended... but might be even simpler to say "under duress".

That doesn't make it better for him. Duress happens.

I am down with him having this entire season to start. He has done some wonderful things. But he is going to have to improve that aspect if he wants to continue to be an NFL starter going forward.

Zombo

Manzier

@dawg08 said:
So who now believes Hoyer deserves that big contract?? Big mistake if they write him a big contract.

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I would offer him a fair contract, like 4 years 32 mill.

@diehardbrownsfan said:
I would offer him back up money.

Ok, good, great?

Franchise QB, starter, back up?

good value, retail price, over pay?

All questions Farmer has to answer. While it's obvious BH isnt Peyton Manning, it's also obvious he's good enough to start and play for someone. So, the debate is really not how good Hoyer is, but how much are you willing to pay him?

Bottom line is that SOMEONE will pay him. It's too hard to find competent QB's in this league and lots of teams are desperate to find one. Someone will pay a lot to try him out. History has proven this over and over again. Personally, I dont think he'll stay if he needs a guarantee to start or wants top 10 type of money. The browns wont make that promise, but someone else will.

I see Farmer as a "value" guy, who's eye is on the payroll as much as the talent. It has to be a good value, with balance, or he'll pass. I think he see's Hoyer as a good value today, but not so much at "franchise QB" dollars or if he has to dump JFF to appease Hoyer.

JFF is the wildcard he's holding. And none of us have seen it yet. Wonder when he plays THAT one.

bbedward

Season isn't over yet, we're still in the thick of it. Let these guys try and figure it out against ATL.

Tour2ma

Zombo said:

That doesn't make it better for him. Duress happens.

I am down with him having this entire season to start. He has done some wonderful things. But he is going to have to improve that aspect if he wants to continue to be an NFL starter going forward.

Yup... duress happens... and no QB is immune to real duress, as Tom Terrific showed us in the first half of the SNF game.

The issue is BH letting perceived duress impact him... often even more than the real thing.

Westside Steve

So which of the other teams in the league would trade their starter for Brian Hoyer today?

Straight up trade.

WSS

gftChris

@westside-steve said:

So which of the other teams in the league would trade their starter for Brian Hoyer today?

Straight up trade.

WSS

Buffalo

Cinci?!

Jets

St Louis maybe, if you're counting Austin not Bradford

Titans

Probably a few more I can't think of.

miktoxic

@westside-steve said:

So which of the other teams in the league would trade their starter for Brian Hoyer today?

Straight up trade.

WSS

today? none.

the question makes no sense. you'd have to take in consideration that he'd be a brand new guy , most likely in a new system with new players he'd have to become familiar with. that's why you never see trades like that happen.

when in the history of the nfl has one team traded their starter for another's with 6 games left in the year?

let me know if it's happened because i'd find it highly unlikely.

Manzier

And they wont have to trade their starter since Hoyer is a FA. So, add a few more to the list that can afford him, while still keeping their plan B guy.

Edit: The trade deadline has passed. Aint no trades happening anytime soon.

miktoxic

@gftchris said:

Buffalo

Cinci?!

Jets

St Louis maybe, if you're counting Austin not Bradford

Titans

Probably a few more I can't think of.

ok yeah.

hypothetically, a team with a real lousy QB would love to have brian hoyer over some of the bums out there. i thought the trade would be more of a straight level trade where someone wasn't getting hosed by the deal.

i'd put minnesota and washington on that list as well.

bbedward

@westside-steve said:

So which of the other teams in the league would trade their starter for Brian Hoyer today?

Straight up trade.

WSS

I believe Buffalo, Chicago, Jets, Tampa, and STL (Do they even give Bradford more chances?) are the teams that have existing options that they have no hope in. All of which would likely rather have Hoyer than Orton, Cutler, Vick/Smith, McCown/Glennon, and Davis/Bradford.

Other teams would like to have Hoyer I'm sure but have young guys they haven't given up on yet: Jags/Bortles, Texans/Mallet?, Vikings/Bridgewater, Titans/Mettenberge, Redskins/RGIII?

Hoyer was bad and he's only highlighted because he's the QB. Everybody stunk it up yesterday. We're right in the thick of the division race still, with 2 huge divisional games.

Westside Steve

Oh come on Mik.

All other factors being equal.

(we can go back to the beginning of training camp or to the end of this season if it makes it easier)

And Chris you think the Titans would give up on Mettenberger this quick?

I'd be very surprised if the Bengals were ready to throw Dalton under the bus.

Or st. Louis with Bradford.

If he wasn't a shitbag wouldn't you have rather started training camp with Michael Vick?

WSS

miktoxic

i like what we have now but if you want to go back and look at a couple of ideas i had about QBs we could have taken a stab at....you might be surprised.

but michael vick? no never. he'll never be anything in my eyes but a scumbag.

Westside Steve

@miktoxic said:

i like what we have now but if you want to go back and look at a couple of ideas i had about QBs we could have taken a stab at....you might be surprised.

but michael vick? no never. he'll never be anything in my eyes but a scumbag.

yes I hate the fucker. Just saying if his ability was transferred to a nice guy.

WSS

gftChris

@westside-steve said:

Oh come on Mik.

All other factors being equal.

(we can go back to the beginning of training camp or to the end of this season if it makes it easier)

And Chris you think the Titans would give up on Mettenberger this quick?

I'd be very surprised if the Bengals were ready to throw Dalton under the bus.

Or st. Louis with Bradford.

If he wasn't a shitbag wouldn't you have rather started training camp with Michael Vick?

WSS

A sixth-rounder for a guy who has a winning career record in the NFL as a starter? I think they'd be very, very tempted.

I don't think the see Mettenberger as the definite future of the franchise - more just a project.

miktoxic

@westside-steve said:

yes I hate the fucker. Just saying if his ability was transferred to a nice guy.

WSS

maybe that nice guy at the beginning of his career. MAYBE. i'm not one that likes the idea of my QB (if it was my team) running around. vick did it well for many years. but the hits started taking a toll and somehow this year he's still on his feet. because in previous years he hasn't been able to finish the season.

i know what you're getting at and hey, if manziel is the guy that the brown's staff think is the best guy for the job, then play him. but up until this point i guess he hasn't shown that he's the guy....yet.

i'm all about the browns winning. if that means bring in hank the hobo and let him sling it, then do it.

Westside Steve

As I've said often enough I would keep Brian Hoyer starting at least for the rest of the season. It really hasnt been his poor play alone that's cost us games.

But neither have any fireworks from him been the difference in the games we won.

I do you think in order to win the AFC North a team needs to be a good team with a very good quarterback. Or a great team with as average quarterback. I don't think we have all the parts to be called a great team especially given the lack of depth at key positions.

So one of those two scenarios need to come to pass. And no, I'm not positive Johnny is that elite quarterback. But who knows?

WSS

Tour2ma

Turn the question around, Steve...

Which 2014 starters would you not trade Hoyer for?

I would not trade Hoyer for the following QBs who have started in 2014:

Orton, Manuel, G. Smith, Vick, Dalton, Fitzpatrick, Mallet, Locker, Whitehurst, Mettenberger, Schaub, Romo, (Foles), Sanchez, RG3, Cousins, McCoy, Cutler, Bridgewater, Cassell, Ryan, McCown, Glennon, Bradford, Austin, Hill, Kaepernick

Put Foles in parenthesis as I might go for him...

DieHardBrownsFan

2014 Regular Season NFL Leaders
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
1 Aaron Rodgers, GB 61.6 5.2 -12.6 4.7 58.9 393 82.9 51.5 85.9
2 Philip Rivers, SD 61.1 0.7 -8.8 4.7 57.7 409 74.8 42.2 80.5
3 Peyton Manning, DEN 63.4 -1.0 -6.1 3.0 59.4 475 85.7 47.9 80.0
4 Tony Romo, DAL 52.0 2.0 -12.8 2.8 43.9 332 58.3 31.8 78.9
5 Tom Brady, NE 52.8 -0.7 -7.2 5.3 50.2 441 71.9 36.7 75.9
6 Drew Brees, NO 57.2 2.4 -8.6 6.7 57.7 483 74.3 35.7 73.5
7 Andrew Luck, IND 52.5 1.3 -5.8 3.4 51.4 526 80.0 38.1 73.1
8 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 58.2 -1.8 -15.1 4.0 45.2 453 67.7 31.5 72.3
9 Matt Ryan, ATL 49.9 1.0 -12.9 2.1 40.1 453 56.7 20.5 65.1
10 Carson Palmer, ARI 33.9 -1.3 -6.8 3.6 29.4 276 34.3 12.2 64.8
11 Eli Manning, NYG 41.6 1.8 -11.5 5.0 37.0 435 52.8 18.2 64.0
12 Joe Flacco, BAL 36.2 0.8 -10.6 7.9 34.2 411 49.5 16.8 63.7
13 Nick Foles, PHI 31.0 1.8 -5.9 4.7 31.6 368 42.6 13.3 62.2
14 Russell Wilson, SEA 24.1 21.7 -11.1 -0.2 34.5 422 46.7 13.1 60.5
15 Jay Cutler, CHI 41.1 3.9 -12.1 1.5 34.4 470 49.8 12.4 59.0
16 Alex Smith, KC 32.6 6.4 -15.2 4.0 27.8 383 38.3 7.8 57.0
17 Matthew Stafford, DET 42.1 -0.8 -15.1 5.5 31.7 450 44.9 9.1 56.9
18 Andy Dalton, CIN 26.7 -0.3 -5.3 3.7 24.9 384 37.4 6.7 56.0
19 Mike Glennon, TB 23.1 -0.3 -6.8 0.8 16.7 263 25.5 4.6 55.9
20 Colin Kaepernick, SF 43.3 3.3 -18.4 2.7 30.9 454 42.6 6.4 54.9
21 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 38.2 2.4 -14.6 2.7 28.6 452 42.3 6.3 54.8
22 Brian Hoyer, CLE 37.3 -5.7 -10.0 1.0 22.6 392 32.6 1.3 51.2
23 Cam Newton, CAR 31.0 6.2 -16.8 3.1 23.6 470 36.0 -1.4 48.9
24 Kirk Cousins, WSH 16.2 -0.4 -5.7 1.5 11.6 250 17.6 -2.3 46.8
25 Ryan Fitzpatrick, HOU 21.7 3.5 -11.1 0.3 14.4 344 22.7 -4.7 45.3
26 Teddy Twatwater, MIN 18.1 3.3 -12.0 0.9 10.4 293 15.5 -7.8 40.9
27 Derek Carr, OAK 18.6 -0.2 -6.6 0.9 12.7 426 22.6 -11.4 40.9
28 Kyle Orton, BUF 23.5 -1.9 -11.6 -2.1 7.8 276 12.8 -9.2 38.7
29 Austin Davis, STL 23.3 -1.4 -15.6 1.6 7.9 355 15.3 -13.0 37.6
30 Geno Smith, NYJ 5.5 1.3 -8.5 0.8 -0.9 307 3.0 -21.5 27.6
31 Blake Bortles, JAX 3.4 0.9 -9.9 2.4 -3.1 366 0.8 -28.4 25.6

darkside5

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i would trade hoyer right now and start manziel next week.

with the kid coming in the browns are GUARANTEED to win out and go to the super bowl. vegas would put the browns as the favorites the next day.

instead of throwing 50 times today because they couldn't run the ball we can have JF scramble 50 times.

CAN'T WAIT!!

fucking dickheads.

Mik it amazes me when after a loss how people are headhunting. Hell we were already missing many key starters and lost a few more yesterday. yet everyone is calling for Hoyers head on a platter as if he was the (only- Mod edit) reason for the loss. He didn't have the best day but for crying out loud look what he's done with a team of nobodies and castoffs I would compare to the Bad News Bears. Pretty impressive I would say. I wonder how many games we would have won this year with Manning or Brady as our QB. I'd say maybe 6. End of story.