Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Faded said:
It may or may not translate to the NFL (it certainly can't to the same degree),but in college nobody could do the things this kid did. Kevin Sumlin (who I actually think is a good coach), should send him a turkey at Thanksgiving for the next 10 years. Mike Evans was great, but he's not why Manziel could do what he did. The offensive line was good, but seemed great because of Manziel. Go watch the highlights. LSU knew how to stop him (Miles is also a pretty good coach with a solid, solid defense), but no one else really did. "Once-in-decade-talent" as a description for Manziel in college is easy to defend...
Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
Tom Brady got by every team 198 times before the Pats took him. Brandon Weeden has all the prototypical QB physical traits. The reason one is HOFer and the other a 1st round bust is because of what's in between the ears. That's the biggest unknown right now on Manziel, but I'm cautiously optimistic.Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
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Tom Brady got by every team 198 times before the Pats took him. Brandon Weeden has all the prototypical QB physical traits. The reason one is HOFer and the other a 1st round bust is because of what's in between the ears. That's the biggest unknown right now on Manziel, but I'm cautiously optimistic.Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
Tom Brady got by every team 198 times before the Pats took him. Brandon Weeden has all the prototypical QB physical traits. The reason one is HOFer and the other a 1st round bust is because of what's in between the ears. That's the biggest unknown right now on Manziel, but I'm cautiously optimistic.
Exactly.
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I could be completely wrong but I still don't think Mike Pettine is the kind of guy that would go with the quick hook.
(of course in the aftermath of Ben Tate; still he was a vocal malcontent)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
i understand the argument for staying with hoyer, but i also understand he's been playing like shit and there's a equally good argument to bench him and go with manziel....what i don't particularly like is hoyer's insistence that he start...it's not his decision....i like manziel's approach better, acknowledging it's a decision for the coaches, not the players.....hoyer keeps playing the "you owe it to me to keep me starting" card....everyone recognizes his contributions, but get over it, this is the pro's, nobody owes you shit....you produce, you play, you don't produce, you sit....hoyer just hasn't been producing...more than a few of those wins were in spite of his play, not because of it......
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I could be completely wrong but I still don't think Mike Pettine is the kind of guy that would go with the quick hook.
(of course in the aftermath of Ben Tate; still he was a vocal malcontent)
WSS
I could be completely wrong but I still don't think Mike Pettine is the kind of guy that would go with the quick hook.
(of course in the aftermath of Ben Tate; still he was a vocal malcontent)
WSS
From what I heard from various news/radio on the Browns is that they've been concerned with Hoyer's performance since the Texans game, so this might not be as quick a hook as those outside Berea think it is. I also heard that Farmer is weighing in on this decision, which means his POV is going to be that he wants to know what he has in Manziel before the next draft. Sadly, I think Hoyer is done in Cleveland.
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Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there.
He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile.
Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement.
He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet
The media divide is becoming clear...
Former players are by and large lining up behind Hoyer due to leadership, 7-5, etc.
Writers are by and large lining up behind Manziel due to "excitement" and there's no better example than this tripe, fresh from USA Today...
Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there.
He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile.
Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement.
He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet
Great analogy... and on average LeSean has only missed about 2 games per year since he's been a starter.
Too bad Baryshnikov and Nureyev are over the hill...
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You gotta throw away the media and people outside the organization, what does our staff and our players want to do?
I think the players seemed to have a lot more energy in the TD drive by Johnny, then they had the rest of the game with Hoyer.
But in the end it's all about practice, if JMoney out works Hoyer this week I think Coach Pett has no choice.
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Faded said:
It may or may not translate to the NFL (it certainly can't to the same degree),but in college nobody could do the things this kid did. Kevin Sumlin (who I actually think is a good coach), should send him a turkey at Thanksgiving for the next 10 years. Mike Evans was great, but he's not why Manziel could do what he did. The offensive line was good, but seemed great because of Manziel. Go watch the highlights. LSU knew how to stop him (Miles is also a pretty good coach with a solid, solid defense), but no one else really did. "Once-in-decade-talent" as a description for Manziel in college is easy to defend...
Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
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Should Manziel Start Sunday?:
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I still think Hoyer starts Sunday...but if he can't get out of the slump, at some point,
they will put manziel in, it will be a bit sooner.
It's possible that Hoyer has risen to his level of incompetence by pressing too hard,
and having things go wrong.
He has to stop trying to make huge plays while off balance - he doesn't have the arm
to make some of those throws unless he has his feet set, or at least be on the move
and on balance. It's odd that he is playing worse with Gordon back.
If Gordon can't get his mistakes out of the way, I'd trade him. He should know how to
make adjustments on the fly, regardless of his time off. He's been playing hard, but
his mental reactions on the field seem to be flustered at times.
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I start Manziel. Hoyer isn't the future. He is a solid back-up, marginal starter. No way I sign him top a 4-5 year, 35 mil deal. Maybe 3 years at 14 mil.
We are Johnny Football. Embrace it.
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I start Manziel. Hoyer isn't the future. He is a solid back-up, marginal starter. No way I sign him top a 4-5 year, 35 mil deal. Maybe 3 years at 14 mil.
We are Johnny Football. Embrace it.
I start Manziel. Hoyer isn't the future. He is a solid back-up, marginal starter. No way I sign him top a 4-5 year, 35 mil deal. Maybe 3 years at 14 mil.
We are Johnny Football. Embrace it.
I'm going to embrace it either way. I'm completely on the fence on this one. I can see giving Hoyer who is 9-5 as a starter (not counting the Bills game last year) and has the team at 7-5 this year and in the hunt one last chance to pull his head out of his ass but it's going to be a very short leash if he starts. I can also see saying fuck it...Hoyer has been playing worse and worse for the last few weeks, let's see what this kid has got and hand the keys over to him and enjoy the ride.
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i don't think manziel makes this team better. i think hoyer is royally fucking up. i don't care who starts as long as that person give the browns the best chance to win.
it's a 2 edged sword now for manziel AND for the browns. if manziel starts and blows does that mean our QB search is still on? i love what hoyer did for us but if you can't mentally tough it out with the pressures going on around you then you can't be that guy that leads the team into battle. simple as that. and let's see how teams prep for manziel. i really doubt the bills did anything this week thinking manziel would come in.
i don't think manziel makes this team better. i think hoyer is royally fucking up. i don't care who starts as long as that person give the browns the best chance to win.
it's a 2 edged sword now for manziel AND for the browns. if manziel starts and blows does that mean our QB search is still on? i love what hoyer did for us but if you can't mentally tough it out with the pressures going on around you then you can't be that guy that leads the team into battle. simple as that. and let's see how teams prep for manziel. i really doubt the bills did anything this week thinking manziel would come in.
Mik - this is a great question. Let the annual cyber masturbation about the best qb in the draft begin! (not a knock at you)
If they start Johnny and he does poorly, does he have a short leash, or do they stick it out no matter what?
Hope has two beautiful daughters: Their names are Anger and Courage. Anger that things are the way they are. Courage to make them the way they ought to be. - St. Augustine. Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their vision. - Ayn Rand -
I start Manziel. Hoyer isn't the future. He is a solid back-up, marginal starter. No way I sign him top a 4-5 year, 35 mil deal. Maybe 3 years at 14 mil.
We are Johnny Football. Embrace it.
I'm going to embrace it either way. I'm completely on the fence on this one. I can see giving Hoyer who is 9-5 as a starter (not counting the Bills game last year) and has the team at 7-5 this year and in the hunt one last chance to pull his head out of his ass but it's going to be a very short leash if he starts. I can also see saying fuck it...Hoyer has been playing worse and worse for the last few weeks, let's see what this kid has got and hand the keys over to him and enjoy the ride.
I'm going to embrace it either way. I'm completely on the fence on this one. I can see giving Hoyer who is 9-5 as a starter (not counting the Bills game last year) and has the team at 7-5 this year and in the hunt one last chance to pull his head out of his ass but it's going to be a very short leash if he starts. I can also see saying fuck it...Hoyer has been playing worse and worse for the last few weeks, let's see what this kid has got and hand the keys over to him and enjoy the ride.
I kind of felt like this past week was his "one last chance" and was hoping for the hook during the Atl game.....specially, right after Hoyer got creamed by Cushing....
I think Pettine showed great patience and fairness with BH and gave him EVERY chance to play and show his stuff....especially considering ist round pick Mr. Johnny Football was sitting on the bench.....a LOT of teams would've played JFF sooner.....
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i don't think manziel makes this team better. i think hoyer is royally fucking up. i don't care who starts as long as that person give the browns the best chance to win.
it's a 2 edged sword now for manziel AND for the browns. if manziel starts and blows does that mean our QB search is still on? i love what hoyer did for us but if you can't mentally tough it out with the pressures going on around you then you can't be that guy that leads the team into battle. simple as that. and let's see how teams prep for manziel. i really doubt the bills did anything this week thinking manziel would come in.
Mik - this is a great question. Let the annual cyber masturbation about the best qb in the draft begin! (not a knock at you)
If they start Johnny and he does poorly, does he have a short leash, or do they stick it out no matter what?
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Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
I think you've missed the point. Hoorta didn't say Manziel won't be good because he didn't go #1 overall. He simply pointed out that being a superstar in college doesn't mean you'll be a superstar in the NFL.
Nice try though, buddy.
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Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there.
He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile.
Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement.
He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet
Manziel doesnt run like other QB's run.. He doesnt run like Griffin or Newton.. as they are both pretty much see a lane.. run through as fast as you can. Wilson is a backdoor type runner who will steal the green if you give it to him, and may change direction here or there.
He runs more like Vick.. not AS fast.. but MORE agile.
Johnny Manziel is almost the EXACT same height and weight as LeSean Mccoy.. and they both have great quicks and insane lateral movement.
He is in a class by himself when running. Because unlike when other QB's run.. unless he is in a full sprint straight away... defenders cant get a clean shot on him because Johnny sets them up. He's too shifty and makes defenders hesitate before they bite. He runs like... ballet
Johnny has very good field awareness when he runs, the way he switched the ball on his TD run before contact and covered in a fast motion was one example, but there will be mistakes and he will get hit.
I wouldn't compare him to lesean McCoy though.
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Sorry- Manziel might well have been a once in a decade College talent- but if he was a once in a decade Pro potential quarterback, he wouldn't have gotten past the Texans at #1 overall, and qb needy teams would have been ringing their phone off the hook making RG III type offers to move up to get him. And history says so. Holmgren reportedly offered the Colts his entire draft for a shot at Andrew Luck, and we all know (and you should too) about the bidding war that went on to move up to #2 to take Griffin. JFF slid to the Browns at #22 because unlike Luck- who checked off ALL the boxes on the scouts scorecards, Manziel didn't. So take off the homer glasses.
JFF may well have been the #1 overall if he was 3" taller, and didn't have the red flag party boy image. LOL, the Manzealots may not care about the latter, but you can be damn sure GMs and owners sure as hell take that into consideration were they draft someone.
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
jesus you're an idiot...tom brady wasn't drafted till the 6th round.....did that mean he wouldn't be a good pro quarterback....no....just like the texan's not drafting manziel #1 doesn't mean he won't be a good pro quarterback...i know, now you're going to change from the "when you are drafted determines how good you'll be" argument to the "how tall you are determines how go you'll be" argument...........there have been a lot of really good pro quarterbacks who were right around 6" tall.....your whole post is just bullshit.....instead of posting stupid crap, why don't we just wait and see what happens....one thing is for sure, we all know hoyer is gone after this year.....he had his chances and he's shown what he can and can't do.....it's "hasta la vista, baby..." time for hoyer....
You totally missed my point Jim. Did I say anything in that post where I thought Manziel couldn't be a good, or even great pro qb? Don't think so. GMs thought he was a riskier pick than Anderw Luck- that's all. Where you get drafted does indeed depend on how many of those scout boxes get checked off. Want to argue otherwise? Now that's really bullshit. Apparently Brady had about as many checked off as Spurgon Wynn. Tony Romo? Even less. Hells bells, drafting isn't an exact science, want to look up how many teams passed on Joe Montana? Got drafted in the same round as our dear Colt McCoy, and Russell Wilson. Hmmm- seems Montana and McCoy fell because of concerns over arm strength, and Wilson fell because of his height. So yes, GMs are rethinking their viewpoints on how tall you have to be to succeed in the NFL, exactly because of how Wilson is playing.
I can go on- Thuman Thomas lasted until the second round because of injury concerns- so did Montario Hardesty. Who guessed right?
BTW it's far from a done deal Hoyer is gone after this year, and you're probably old enough to realize that. Now if Brian wants to pout that he got demoted- yes he's gone. If he's willing to accept a long term backup deal at a reasonable price, it's an ideal situation for him.
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