It's Hoyer
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Well lets say that when Brian Hoyer is named MVP of a couple Super Bowls I will put them in the same category. If and when that happens I'll drive to Florida to buy you a beer.
WSS
Fair enough, but you can't win any Super Bowls when you haven't finished a season yet, so isn't it an unfair premise to ask us to compare him to the current Super Bowl winning QBs in the first place?
He has similar game to Eli ... with the right defense, running game and a few lucky bounces who knows? I guess we'll find out if the plug isn't pulled.
Hoyer through 16 career starts is 10-6 4,287 yards, 18 Tds 16 Int, 79 Rating
Mannings first 16 starts he was 7-9, his first full year as a starter he had 3,762 yards 24Tds 16 Int 75.9 rating
Zombo
That's all true. But of course Eli was how old and brian is how old? And yes indeed if the rest of the team kicks ass and the ball bounces your way you can get to the Superbowl with Rex Grossman or Trent Dilfer. If that's the plan great. Taking a hit on a king 10 is a plan too. Of course in those situations you have to hit that window of opportunity like Leroy Kelly hit the hole. Not the way Willis McGahee hit the hole.Zombo said:
Fair enough, but you can't win any Super Bowls when you haven't finished a season yet, so isn't it an unfair premise to ask us to compare him to the current Super Bowl winning QBs in the first place?
He has similar game to Eli ... with the right defense, running game and a few lucky bounces who knows? I guess we'll find out if the plug isn't pulled.
Hoyer through 16 career starts is 10-6 4,287 yards, 18 Tds 16 Int, 79 Rating
Mannings first 16 starts he was 7-9, his first full year as a starter he had 3,762 yards 24Tds 16 Int 75.9 rating
Zombo
Will that window of opportunity still be open next year? Let's hope so.
We have a lot better team and team effort this season than we have had in many years in my opinion. And we have run quarterback after quarterback out of town for similar performance.
Still 30 hours from now everything will be much clearer.
We can bite one of the best teams in the league in the ass or.....
WSS
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i think given everything the browns have been up against this year the team has performed quite well. time to gel as a unit was obviously not there at the beginning of the season, especially on the defensive side. injuries, the suspension and injuries, the clamoring for QB change and injuries........i'm surprised we've got the record we do.
does the FO, pettine and staff along with all the brown's fan base wish we had a peyton manning, tom brady or aaron rodgers? of course we do. but have you seen any of those guys when they don't have time to throw? i have and they sure as hell don't look like world beaters. also i think pettine is doing the best he can given the fact that he has a QB on the bench that the owner leaned towards, half of friggin america wants to start and he has to weigh the fact the kid isn't as good as the eternal backup QB who is now our starter.
i hope they get this shit figured out in the offseason. i don't care who they cut ties with as long as we have a cemented starter who doesn't have to worry about some alfred e. neuman rookie making money signs from the bench. go with one or the other and ship the other off to france for all i care.
Mik anybody that clamors for an injury to any Browns player can suck my dick.i think given everything the browns have been up against this year the team has performed quite well. time to gel as a unit was obviously not there at the beginning of the season, especially on the defensive side. injuries, the suspension and injuries, the clamoring for QB change and injuries........i'm surprised we've got the record we do.
does the FO, pettine and staff along with all the brown's fan base wish we had a peyton manning, tom brady or aaron rodgers? of course we do. but have you seen any of those guys when they don't have time to throw? i have and they sure as hell don't look like world beaters. also i think pettine is doing the best he can given the fact that he has a QB on the bench that the owner leaned towards, half of friggin america wants to start and he has to weigh the fact the kid isn't as good as the eternal backup QB who is now our starter.
i hope they get this shit figured out in the offseason. i don't care who they cut ties with as long as we have a cemented starter who doesn't have to worry about some alfred e. neuman rookie making money signs from the bench. go with one or the other and ship the other off to france for all i care.
But let's not make the decision just because you're mad about Johnny. I think the Alfred E Newman line pretty much sums up your opinion and many of the guys here.
Personally I want to see the money sign 5 times every game at least.
Somebody bitched to "act like you've been there before". Well he hasn't. First time in an NFL end zone? What would you do? Apologize?
As for smarmy music I'm sure I've written some shit that would make you cringe from embarrassment.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Sorry for my redundant post. If that's the first time its happened I'm surprised. Oh well.I've seen a lot of double posts in my forum days, but the "forgot-I-already-replied-only-three-posts-earlier" double is a new one...
Anyway... neither Dilfer nor Johnson went undefeated during the regular season preceding their SB runs.
I'm not demanding we go undefeated. I'm saying that it bothers me to lose a game by pocket change if a little better play would have won it. Or in the case of winning a squeaker. It would be nice to have a little cushion. I don't know why it upsets some of you guys.
Looks by the time stamp that I was distracted around 1 o'clock and probably forgot till I got back at 4.
WSS
Sorry for my redundant post. If that's the first time its happened I'm surprised. Oh well.
Looks by the time stamp that I was distracted around 1 o'clock and probably forgot till I got back at 4.
Hope you knew the double post thing was all in fun. At least I hope the "Huntin'" was good...
Faded said:
Post of the day
Contribution of the day!
Has to be a reason this guy is still here... Lil' help?
But let's not make the decision just because you're mad about Johnny. I think the Alfred E Newman line pretty much sums up your opinion and many of the guys here.
Personally I want to see the money sign 5 times every game at least.
Somebody bitched to "act like you've been there before". Well he hasn't. First time in an NFL end zone? What would you do? Apologize?
Save it for a meaningful circumstance? I don't care for the "money sign", but I channel my conservative streak differently than many here. Five TDs a game minus it would be just as awesome. I suspect as JM matures it'll fall by the wayside...
Alfred E. Newman wasn't immature, just an idiot. I don't think many here believe idiocy is JM's biggest obstacle.
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A no worries it didn't piss me off. If it had I would have responded with something referring to my dick as per usual around here.
B hey I thought it was a cute post!
C meaningful conversation? Dude I was talking to Mik.
But the way I see it the term immature is something somebody uses if they don't have anything solid against the kid.
didn't one of the Browns players get flagged for taunting last week? I don't remember any of you guys shitting your pants over that. Maybe I just didn't see it...
WSS
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Gordon got the "taunting" flag... the play after the Bills' player got one...
The reaction in a couple threads here was rightly very critical of Josh. Fortunately he made up for by running a wrong route later... Hoyer's 2nd INT.
Gordon got the "taunting" flag... the play after the Bills' player got one...
The reaction in a couple threads here was rightly very critical of Josh. Fortunately he made up for by running a wrong route later... Hoyer's 2nd INT.
Oh I'm hip to the bad route. Now that's one thing that he and Gordon can get together that would improve Hoyer's game.
On the other hand he's missed lots of different receivers that he's had all season to work with. But seriously this really could be the key to his success. We will know in 25 hours.
Still while we are in excuse mode Johnny had two passes at least bounce off the receivers hands. No excuse for that either.
WSS
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Gordon got the "taunting" flag... the play after the Bills' player got one...
The reaction in a couple threads here was rightly very critical of Josh. Fortunately he made up for by running a wrong route later... Hoyer's 2nd INT.
Oh I'm hip to the bad route. Now that's one thing that he and Gordon can get together that would improve Hoyer's game.
On the other hand he's missed lots of different receivers that he's had all season to work with. But seriously this really could be the key to his success. We will know in 25 hours.
Still while we are in excuse mode Johnny had two passes at least bounce off the receivers hands. No excuse for that either.
WSS
Still while we are in excuse mode Johnny had two passes at least bounce off the receivers hands. No excuse for that either.
Not sure how when the WR himself says he ran the wrong route, that qualifies for "excuse mode", but whatever...
Unless you were counting JM's "infumpletion", only one drop actually... to Dray (S13P2) in JM's second series.
One other you may be trying to call a drop was too wide of Benji (S12P5). He barely got a finger tip on it. After play-action left, JM 1/4-rolled right and had pressure in his face and his footwork was well off. Pass still had "some" zip, but wobbled a tad and was wide of the mark. It was his only pressure and, quite understandably, the only time his mechanics were "off".
Two completions were helped by nice catches. Dray had great concentration to complement JM's best throw of the game on the deep seam. The only time he targeted Gordo, Josh had to reach behind him on a square in. It was a catch Josh would be expected to make.
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An excuse for brians interception. That's all. It meant it wasn't a bad pass.
OK?
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(also for other quarterbacks running bad routes or balls bouncing off their hands or dropped never seem to be added on to the other side of the scale)
WSS
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I historically had not broken down QB play to that level, Steve... May have noted "drop" or occasionally egregious footwork, but that was about it. If you'd read my mid-season comments on Hoyer, they included that his footwork had deteriorated for no apparaent reason.
The past two weeks have been more detailed as I wanted to examine BH's footwork. If you read my BH breakdown last week, then you'd know the good, bad and the ugly he displayed.
OK?
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Willymacaroni said:
I watched Johnny play in HS at Tivoli and every snap at TAMU. Been watching ball since mid 60s and I have never seen a more entertaining player . It makes no sense to try breaking down his skill set or comparing him to anyone else. His intangibles can't be quantified. He doesn't fathom losing; he knows he can win every time he steps on the field. His teammates know he gives 110% and makes them want to do the same.
If there was one play that comes closest to showing his heart and talent; it would be this one. Paste it into Youtube and see why the Browns need to put him him at halftime Sunday and never look back.
Never Give Up
We're not looking for entertaining. We need someone who can WIN at the NFL LEVEL. We'll play him when he's ready. Right now he seems a little reckless and teammates remarked that he may not know all the plays. So simmer down.
Zombo
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My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
Brian Hoyer has offered the Browns something they haven't had in years. He put the Browns in a position this late in the season to at least flirt with the playoffs. He beat Pittsburgh (almost twice), he beat Cincy, & nearly beat the Ravens. He's smart, & a great game manager. He takes calculated risks & can shine late when the game is on the line, but he only works when the team is working. The reason people THINK he's bad: Every game there has been a suspension (Gordon), a significant injury (too many to list), a trade (Tate), & in general several changes to positioned players.... Hell, they keep changing the guy who snaps him the ball. Anyhow, Brian Hoyer has dealt with it in an amazing way, but here is the issue. The team is wittled down. He has less protection now than ever. He lost two receivers, a TE, & a center amongst others. When the TEAM works, he wins. When the running game stops, & the protection breaks down, Hoyer has problems, but that is hardly all on him. The defensive lines of Jax, & Bills were good. There was nothing Browns could do & Manziel wasn't the answer despite his good drive, & his inexperienced blunder drive. One other issue (& this might sound crazy to some) is Gordon. When Gordon came in, Hoyer went from the "hit the man who's open" guy to the "hit Gordon" guy. This messed Hoyer up big time. Opposing teams are double teaming Gordon number one. Number two, Gordon admitted that he didn't yet have his routes down which has resulted in many incompletions & a couple interceptions (Atlanta, & Buffalo). Despite all this, Hoyer is getting pressure from all sides to give Gordon first looks & more throws. This is not good. Alls Gordon has to do is be on the field. That free's the others up. Hoyer should go back to the "hit the man who's open" guy. Way too many first looks. He is going to Gordon way too much. I'm not saying don't throw to Gordon. I'm saying, let the run game work, then throw to the open man. When they least expect it, hit Gordon stategically for a deep strike, NOT early & often. Gordon will get better, but until then, let Hoyer hit the open man.
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
Brooklyn, New York Browns Backer #20336660 -
My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
Brian Hoyer has offered the Browns something they haven't had in years. He put the Browns in a position this late in the season to at least flirt with the playoffs. He beat Pittsburgh (almost twice), he beat Cincy, & nearly beat the Ravens. He's smart, & a great game manager. He takes calculated risks & can shine late when the game is on the line, but he only works when the team is working. The reason people THINK he's bad: Every game there has been a suspension (Gordon), a significant injury (too many to list), a trade (Tate), & in general several changes to positioned players.... Hell, they keep changing the guy who snaps him the ball. Anyhow, Brian Hoyer has dealt with it in an amazing way, but here is the issue. The team is wittled down. He has less protection now than ever. He lost two receivers, a TE, & a center amongst others. When the TEAM works, he wins. When the running game stops, & the protection breaks down, Hoyer has problems, but that is hardly all on him. The defensive lines of Jax, & Bills were good. There was nothing Browns could do & Manziel wasn't the answer despite his good drive, & his inexperienced blunder drive. One other issue (& this might sound crazy to some) is Gordon. When Gordon came in, Hoyer went from the "hit the man who's open" guy to the "hit Gordon" guy. This messed Hoyer up big time. Opposing teams are double teaming Gordon number one. Number two, Gordon admitted that he didn't yet have his routes down which has resulted in many incompletions & a couple interceptions (Atlanta, & Buffalo). Despite all this, Hoyer is getting pressure from all sides to give Gordon first looks & more throws. This is not good. Alls Gordon has to do is be on the field. That free's the others up. Hoyer should go back to the "hit the man who's open" guy. Way too many first looks. He is going to Gordon way too much. I'm not saying don't throw to Gordon. I'm saying, let the run game work, then throw to the open man. When they least expect it, hit Gordon stategically for a deep strike, NOT early & often. Gordon will get better, but until then, let Hoyer hit the open man.
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
Brian Hoyer has offered the Browns something they haven't had in years. He put the Browns in a position this late in the season to at least flirt with the playoffs. He beat Pittsburgh (almost twice), he beat Cincy, & nearly beat the Ravens. He's smart, & a great game manager. He takes calculated risks & can shine late when the game is on the line, but he only works when the team is working. The reason people THINK he's bad: Every game there has been a suspension (Gordon), a significant injury (too many to list), a trade (Tate), & in general several changes to positioned players.... Hell, they keep changing the guy who snaps him the ball. Anyhow, Brian Hoyer has dealt with it in an amazing way, but here is the issue. The team is wittled down. He has less protection now than ever. He lost two receivers, a TE, & a center amongst others. When the TEAM works, he wins. When the running game stops, & the protection breaks down, Hoyer has problems, but that is hardly all on him. The defensive lines of Jax, & Bills were good. There was nothing Browns could do & Manziel wasn't the answer despite his good drive, & his inexperienced blunder drive. One other issue (& this might sound crazy to some) is Gordon. When Gordon came in, Hoyer went from the "hit the man who's open" guy to the "hit Gordon" guy. This messed Hoyer up big time. Opposing teams are double teaming Gordon number one. Number two, Gordon admitted that he didn't yet have his routes down which has resulted in many incompletions & a couple interceptions (Atlanta, & Buffalo). Despite all this, Hoyer is getting pressure from all sides to give Gordon first looks & more throws. This is not good. Alls Gordon has to do is be on the field. That free's the others up. Hoyer should go back to the "hit the man who's open" guy. Way too many first looks. He is going to Gordon way too much. I'm not saying don't throw to Gordon. I'm saying, let the run game work, then throw to the open man. When they least expect it, hit Gordon stategically for a deep strike, NOT early & often. Gordon will get better, but until then, let Hoyer hit the open man.
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
Great post Lincoln . Spot on, and welcome to the board
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My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
Brian Hoyer has offered the Browns something they haven't had in years. He put the Browns in a position this late in the season to at least flirt with the playoffs. He beat Pittsburgh (almost twice), he beat Cincy, & nearly beat the Ravens. He's smart, & a great game manager. He takes calculated risks & can shine late when the game is on the line, but he only works when the team is working. The reason people THINK he's bad: Every game there has been a suspension (Gordon), a significant injury (too many to list), a trade (Tate), & in general several changes to positioned players.... Hell, they keep changing the guy who snaps him the ball. Anyhow, Brian Hoyer has dealt with it in an amazing way, but here is the issue. The team is wittled down. He has less protection now than ever. He lost two receivers, a TE, & a center amongst others. When the TEAM works, he wins. When the running game stops, & the protection breaks down, Hoyer has problems, but that is hardly all on him. The defensive lines of Jax, & Bills were good. There was nothing Browns could do & Manziel wasn't the answer despite his good drive, & his inexperienced blunder drive. One other issue (& this might sound crazy to some) is Gordon. When Gordon came in, Hoyer went from the "hit the man who's open" guy to the "hit Gordon" guy. This messed Hoyer up big time. Opposing teams are double teaming Gordon number one. Number two, Gordon admitted that he didn't yet have his routes down which has resulted in many incompletions & a couple interceptions (Atlanta, & Buffalo). Despite all this, Hoyer is getting pressure from all sides to give Gordon first looks & more throws. This is not good. Alls Gordon has to do is be on the field. That free's the others up. Hoyer should go back to the "hit the man who's open" guy. Way too many first looks. He is going to Gordon way too much. I'm not saying don't throw to Gordon. I'm saying, let the run game work, then throw to the open man. When they least expect it, hit Gordon stategically for a deep strike, NOT early & often. Gordon will get better, but until then, let Hoyer hit the open man.
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
Brian Hoyer has offered the Browns something they haven't had in years. He put the Browns in a position this late in the season to at least flirt with the playoffs. He beat Pittsburgh (almost twice), he beat Cincy, & nearly beat the Ravens. He's smart, & a great game manager. He takes calculated risks & can shine late when the game is on the line, but he only works when the team is working. The reason people THINK he's bad: Every game there has been a suspension (Gordon), a significant injury (too many to list), a trade (Tate), & in general several changes to positioned players.... Hell, they keep changing the guy who snaps him the ball. Anyhow, Brian Hoyer has dealt with it in an amazing way, but here is the issue. The team is wittled down. He has less protection now than ever. He lost two receivers, a TE, & a center amongst others. When the TEAM works, he wins. When the running game stops, & the protection breaks down, Hoyer has problems, but that is hardly all on him. The defensive lines of Jax, & Bills were good. There was nothing Browns could do & Manziel wasn't the answer despite his good drive, & his inexperienced blunder drive. One other issue (& this might sound crazy to some) is Gordon. When Gordon came in, Hoyer went from the "hit the man who's open" guy to the "hit Gordon" guy. This messed Hoyer up big time. Opposing teams are double teaming Gordon number one. Number two, Gordon admitted that he didn't yet have his routes down which has resulted in many incompletions & a couple interceptions (Atlanta, & Buffalo). Despite all this, Hoyer is getting pressure from all sides to give Gordon first looks & more throws. This is not good. Alls Gordon has to do is be on the field. That free's the others up. Hoyer should go back to the "hit the man who's open" guy. Way too many first looks. He is going to Gordon way too much. I'm not saying don't throw to Gordon. I'm saying, let the run game work, then throw to the open man. When they least expect it, hit Gordon stategically for a deep strike, NOT early & often. Gordon will get better, but until then, let Hoyer hit the open man.
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
The JFF booster club won't agree with your views, but I do.
Welcome to the Browns Board!
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Mik anybody that clamors for an injury to any Browns player can suck my dick.i think given everything the browns have been up against this year the team has performed quite well. time to gel as a unit was obviously not there at the beginning of the season, especially on the defensive side. injuries, the suspension and injuries, the clamoring for QB change and injuries........i'm surprised we've got the record we do.
does the FO, pettine and staff along with all the brown's fan base wish we had a peyton manning, tom brady or aaron rodgers? of course we do. but have you seen any of those guys when they don't have time to throw? i have and they sure as hell don't look like world beaters. also i think pettine is doing the best he can given the fact that he has a QB on the bench that the owner leaned towards, half of friggin america wants to start and he has to weigh the fact the kid isn't as good as the eternal backup QB who is now our starter.
i hope they get this shit figured out in the offseason. i don't care who they cut ties with as long as we have a cemented starter who doesn't have to worry about some alfred e. neuman rookie making money signs from the bench. go with one or the other and ship the other off to france for all i care.
But let's not make the decision just because you're mad about Johnny. I think the Alfred E Newman line pretty much sums up your opinion and many of the guys here.
Personally I want to see the money sign 5 times every game at least.
Somebody bitched to "act like you've been there before". Well he hasn't. First time in an NFL end zone? What would you do? Apologize?
As for smarmy music I'm sure I've written some shit that would make you cringe from embarrassment.
WSS
Mik anybody that clamors for an injury to any Browns player can suck my dick.
But let's not make the decision just because you're mad about Johnny. I think the Alfred E Newman line pretty much sums up your opinion and many of the guys here.
Personally I want to see the money sign 5 times every game at least.
Somebody bitched to "act like you've been there before". Well he hasn't. First time in an NFL end zone? What would you do? Apologize?
As for smarmy music I'm sure I've written some shit that would make you cringe from embarrassment.
WSS
i hope you don't think i;m rooting for someone to get hurt, just the opposite. if the browns were healthy at all positions right now i think we'd have 3 more in the wins column and be winning the division.
the alfred e. neuman thing was more a joke even though he reminds me of the guy on the cover of mad magazine, with that stupid smirk i see him wearing on the sideline. but looks and immaturity don't bother me if you can win the frickin game. like i've said before, pull a bum out of the gutter if he can win you games consistently. do i love how the kid puts himself out there in the public eye? no. but i understand that this is a new age of self promotion. hell this is the age of selfies and internet bullying so an athlete trying to make money by being out there is fine. just don't get caught doing something stupid that will come back and bite you in the arse.
there were plenty of people getting on gordon after the taunting penalty. most of it was in the tavern during the game. after the loss it didn't carry over to the other part of this forum prob because we were more upset with hoyer's play.
and your music isn't smarmy, if it is then i like smarmy music i guess. on the other hand your stance on the QB situation is befuddling to me. i see posts where your pro hoyer "love the cleveland kid. he's one of us." then it's as if you can't wait to see him gone and ticked that others are pulling for him. that's where the smarm comes in.
but as you said a lot of thing will be cleared up after this game, and i for one can't wait for whatever it is to happen. just get it done. god forbid another off/preseason of not knowing who your QB is. and if i hear the words QB competition next year i'll prob do a dave carradine.
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My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
Brian Hoyer has offered the Browns something they haven't had in years. He put the Browns in a position this late in the season to at least flirt with the playoffs. He beat Pittsburgh (almost twice), he beat Cincy, & nearly beat the Ravens. He's smart, & a great game manager. He takes calculated risks & can shine late when the game is on the line, but he only works when the team is working. The reason people THINK he's bad: Every game there has been a suspension (Gordon), a significant injury (too many to list), a trade (Tate), & in general several changes to positioned players.... Hell, they keep changing the guy who snaps him the ball. Anyhow, Brian Hoyer has dealt with it in an amazing way, but here is the issue. The team is wittled down. He has less protection now than ever. He lost two receivers, a TE, & a center amongst others. When the TEAM works, he wins. When the running game stops, & the protection breaks down, Hoyer has problems, but that is hardly all on him. The defensive lines of Jax, & Bills were good. There was nothing Browns could do & Manziel wasn't the answer despite his good drive, & his inexperienced blunder drive. One other issue (& this might sound crazy to some) is Gordon. When Gordon came in, Hoyer went from the "hit the man who's open" guy to the "hit Gordon" guy. This messed Hoyer up big time. Opposing teams are double teaming Gordon number one. Number two, Gordon admitted that he didn't yet have his routes down which has resulted in many incompletions & a couple interceptions (Atlanta, & Buffalo). Despite all this, Hoyer is getting pressure from all sides to give Gordon first looks & more throws. This is not good. Alls Gordon has to do is be on the field. That free's the others up. Hoyer should go back to the "hit the man who's open" guy. Way too many first looks. He is going to Gordon way too much. I'm not saying don't throw to Gordon. I'm saying, let the run game work, then throw to the open man. When they least expect it, hit Gordon stategically for a deep strike, NOT early & often. Gordon will get better, but until then, let Hoyer hit the open man.
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
....
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
I think they took a look at Pissburgh game where Rothlisberger had the game of his life - and the colts were crushed
seems to fit Hoyer and his 30+ pass attempts, they just need to be completed... Gordon NEEDS to be on the same page
then run the ball to keep Luck off the field.
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My two sense. 38 year Browns fan. I have to say that the Browns fan base is the best & most loyal fan base around. That said, the younger generation fans are impatient, reactionary & have very little insight or foresight for a football franchise. I do believe the coaching staff is making the decision that will yield better results in the long run.
Brian Hoyer has offered the Browns something they haven't had in years. He put the Browns in a position this late in the season to at least flirt with the playoffs. He beat Pittsburgh (almost twice), he beat Cincy, & nearly beat the Ravens. He's smart, & a great game manager. He takes calculated risks & can shine late when the game is on the line, but he only works when the team is working. The reason people THINK he's bad: Every game there has been a suspension (Gordon), a significant injury (too many to list), a trade (Tate), & in general several changes to positioned players.... Hell, they keep changing the guy who snaps him the ball. Anyhow, Brian Hoyer has dealt with it in an amazing way, but here is the issue. The team is wittled down. He has less protection now than ever. He lost two receivers, a TE, & a center amongst others. When the TEAM works, he wins. When the running game stops, & the protection breaks down, Hoyer has problems, but that is hardly all on him. The defensive lines of Jax, & Bills were good. There was nothing Browns could do & Manziel wasn't the answer despite his good drive, & his inexperienced blunder drive. One other issue (& this might sound crazy to some) is Gordon. When Gordon came in, Hoyer went from the "hit the man who's open" guy to the "hit Gordon" guy. This messed Hoyer up big time. Opposing teams are double teaming Gordon number one. Number two, Gordon admitted that he didn't yet have his routes down which has resulted in many incompletions & a couple interceptions (Atlanta, & Buffalo). Despite all this, Hoyer is getting pressure from all sides to give Gordon first looks & more throws. This is not good. Alls Gordon has to do is be on the field. That free's the others up. Hoyer should go back to the "hit the man who's open" guy. Way too many first looks. He is going to Gordon way too much. I'm not saying don't throw to Gordon. I'm saying, let the run game work, then throw to the open man. When they least expect it, hit Gordon stategically for a deep strike, NOT early & often. Gordon will get better, but until then, let Hoyer hit the open man.
Browns Colts: It is not a crazy unheard of wacky idea that the Browns come out with a win. Not saying they will win but think about it. The best team IMO that the Colts beat were the Ravens. Colts did crush Cincy, but so did the Browns. Other than that, Colts crushed crappy teams in their own division, & lost big to elite teams. Their running game is subpar, which helps the Browns because that is a weak spot for us. That said, they will not run on the Browns. It's all on Luck. Their pass game is obviously good, but they may not be expecting our pass D. Our pass D has been nothing less than great, even in the Browns losses. They stop drives & make teams settle for field goals more often than not. Luck will get his, but it certainly won't be as easy as most other teams they played this year. I believe that they can be exposed with a great pass D & some pressure from "Freddy" Kruger on 3rd downs. (just sayin)
Browns: The run will work tomorrow. I am confident in saying that. & when the run works, Hoyer works. Gordon said that he has his routes down better, & the Colts are without one of their best corners. THE RUN HAS TO WORK OR ELSE NOTHING WORKS.
Manziel: Let him marinate at least until we are out of playoff contention. Manziel is going to do some good things, but he is also going to do some bad inexperienced things. That couldn't be more clear in Buffalo. Moreover than that, what would the Browns couching staff look like if he scrambled this year & got hurt? LAUGHING STOCK. Also, he still needs to learn the playbook. I noticed that his scrambling just covers up the fact that he doesn't know it yet. I can tell. He doesn't give looks as if he's looking for something. He's always itchin to run it. Next thing.....Think about next year. Think about the guys coming back from injury, the draft picks, more protection, a whole year of learning the book under his belt. It will not be a new coaching staff or a new system. It's the better move, but the impatient fans (along with the media which I wish didn't exist at all) want to just throw him in for what I think is entertainment value & not stategic planning.
To conclude: Hoyer great when run works, protection is there, & he gives all receivers a look like he used too.
Trap game against Colts not out of the realm of possibility.
Let Hoyer take it until Browns are mathmaticly eliminated. He beat Cincy, He beat Pittsburgh, He came damn close to beating the Ravens and will have another chance. He kept us in contention. Sounds silly that Browns fans want to pull him after all the years of bad luck before him. Doesn't make sense. Not only that, the team has injuries. Hardly the time to put a rookie in...... but hell, If Hoyer himself looks like Dawgshit or blows it at some point, put Manzeil in. Not going to defend dawgshit.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
My two sense. 38 year Browns fan.
Just my opinion. Hopefully some of these points are still relevant after the game. haha
Nice entrance... and I am not saying that just because I agree with most everything you said... although it helps.
Welcome aboard and Go Browns...
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No one here gives a shit if you watched Johnny's birth. There's enough johnny fan boys here. We just want a winner for the browns.Willymacaroni said:
I watched Johnny play in HS at Tivoli and every snap at TAMU. Been watching ball since mid 60s and I have never seen a more entertaining player . It makes no sense to try breaking down his skill set or comparing him to anyone else. His intangibles can't be quantified. He doesn't fathom losing; he knows he can win every time he steps on the field. His teammates know he gives 110% and makes them want to do the same.
If there was one play that comes closest to showing his heart and talent; it would be this one. Paste it into Youtube and see why the Browns need to put him him at halftime Sunday and never look back.
Never Give Up
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Brian Hoyer. Another in a long line of EX Browns QBs.
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Brian Hoyer. Another in a long line of EX Browns QBs.
You know. you are right, we have just added another head to the pole.....so to speak......another notch in our QB belt.....
Next man up......"Mr Football?.....Mr Football?.....are you here?.....you're next......up"
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