PFT on Quinn
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I think the problem most of us have here is thinking THIS SEASON is going to be anything but a rebuilding season.
To think we are playoff quality is lying to yourself.
So, with BQ under contract for 2 more years at a VERY REASONABLE cap hit (FA after 2011)...and DA only under for next year (FA after 2010)...and DA's cap in 2010 being $7.45M + $2M bonus...he will be UNMOVABLE after this year...unless he was the starter....and then we won't want to move him.
The ONLY way I can see DA staying here this year is if we trade BQ. Otherwise he will have ZERO trade value next year.
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NEW BROWNS REGIME “LUKEWARM” ON QUINN
Posted by Mike Florio on February 24, 2009, 9:22 p.m.
We’re hearing that the new power structure in Cleveland — the combination of coach Eric Mangini and G.M. George Kokinis to which folks around the league refer as “ManKok” — isn’t sold on Brady Quinn as the starting quarterback.
One source with knowledge of the dynamics in Cleveland says that the new power structure there is “lukewarm” on Quinn.
As a result, don’t be surprised if the Browns opt to keep Derek Anderson, pay his $5 million roster bonus, and let Anderson and Quinn battle it out for the starting job.
Indeed, the two men never have competed openly for the position. In 2007, Quinn signed his rookie deal too late to make a meaningful run at being in position to replace Charlie Frye when he received the hook in Week One. In 2008, Anderson was the unquestioned starter throughout the offseason, training camp, and the preseason.
So maybe from the fires of competition a better starter will emerge. And maybe the guy who doesn’t get the job will be better off, too.
Here’s the key — neither Mangini nor Kokinis need to justify the decision to draft Quinn or to sign Anderson. The new coach and G.M. can focus on what’s best for the team, regardless of whether the answer is Quinn or Anderson, or neither.
NEW BROWNS REGIME “LUKEWARM” ON QUINN
Posted by Mike Florio on February 24, 2009, 9:22 p.m.
We’re hearing that the new power structure in Cleveland — the combination of coach Eric Mangini and G.M. George Kokinis to which folks around the league refer as “ManKok” — isn’t sold on Brady Quinn as the starting quarterback.
One source with knowledge of the dynamics in Cleveland says that the new power structure there is “lukewarm” on Quinn.
As a result, don’t be surprised if the Browns opt to keep Derek Anderson, pay his $5 million roster bonus, and let Anderson and Quinn battle it out for the starting job.
Indeed, the two men never have competed openly for the position. In 2007, Quinn signed his rookie deal too late to make a meaningful run at being in position to replace Charlie Frye when he received the hook in Week One. In 2008, Anderson was the unquestioned starter throughout the offseason, training camp, and the preseason.
So maybe from the fires of competition a better starter will emerge. And maybe the guy who doesn’t get the job will be better off, too.
Here’s the key — neither Mangini nor Kokinis need to justify the decision to draft Quinn or to sign Anderson. The new coach and G.M. can focus on what’s best for the team, regardless of whether the answer is Quinn or Anderson, or neither.
This article is the biggest joke I have read. Talk about someone talking out their ass because they don't have anything better to write about. First, the FO and coaching staff have said nothing about either QB. Second Dabol was QB coach for Weiss in New England and plans on running the same offense Quinn ran at ND. Saturday night Quinn said he already had part of the play book and him and Dabol have look at what they can incorporate to take advantage of his strengths.
To say the FO is cool on Quinn ruins this guys integrity.
In the NFL their is competition every year which doesn't mean a team is cool on a guy. The league is about competition and putting the best team on the field. If Anderson stays, their should be competition, but Pluto was right on today when he said "it is a smoke screen".
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NEW BROWNS REGIME “LUKEWARM” ON QUINN
Posted by Mike Florio on February 24, 2009, 9:22 p.m.
We’re hearing that the new power structure in Cleveland — the combination of coach Eric Mangini and G.M. George Kokinis to which folks around the league refer as “ManKok” — isn’t sold on Brady Quinn as the starting quarterback.
One source with knowledge of the dynamics in Cleveland says that the new power structure there is “lukewarm” on Quinn.
As a result, don’t be surprised if the Browns opt to keep Derek Anderson, pay his $5 million roster bonus, and let Anderson and Quinn battle it out for the starting job.
Indeed, the two men never have competed openly for the position. In 2007, Quinn signed his rookie deal too late to make a meaningful run at being in position to replace Charlie Frye when he received the hook in Week One. In 2008, Anderson was the unquestioned starter throughout the offseason, training camp, and the preseason.
So maybe from the fires of competition a better starter will emerge. And maybe the guy who doesn’t get the job will be better off, too.
Here’s the key — neither Mangini nor Kokinis need to justify the decision to draft Quinn or to sign Anderson. The new coach and G.M. can focus on what’s best for the team, regardless of whether the answer is Quinn or Anderson, or neither.
This article is the biggest joke I have read. Talk about someone talking out their ass because they don't have anything better to write about. First, the FO and coaching staff have said nothing about either QB. Second Dabol was QB coach for Weiss in New England and plans on running the same offense Quinn ran at ND. Saturday night Quinn said he already had part of the play book and him and Dabol have look at what they can incorporate to take advantage of his strengths.
To say the FO is cool on Quinn ruins this guys integrity.
In the NFL their is competition every year which doesn't mean a team is cool on a guy. The league is about competition and putting the best team on the field. If Anderson stays, their should be competition, but Pluto was right on today when he said "it is a smoke screen".
Pluto was right on today when he said "it is a smoke screen".
Is it a smoke screen the same way last spring was a smoke screen from Savage?
He was just blowing smoke about wanting to sign DA, right? He was really planning to trade him for a 2nd round pick right? His real master plan was to hand the team over to Quinn right?
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what a shocker that the new coach and GM aren't that high on Quinn.
Never could have seen that coming after the last coach and GM planted him on the bench for two seasons. Right BQ Nation?
what a shocker that the new coach and GM aren't that high on Quinn.
Never could have seen that coming after the last coach and GM planted him on the bench for two seasons. Right BQ Nation?
Okkk I get it...You like Mike Florio when it favors DA...But when the article is in favor of Quinn You call Florio a bum and strike it it down as nonsense...Lummy Dummy...Your schtick is old...worn out...and You have proven Yourself once again to be a fake...
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Pluto was right on today when he said "it is a smoke screen".
Is it a smoke screen the same way last spring was a smoke screen from Savage?
He was just blowing smoke about wanting to sign DA, right? He was really planning to trade him for a 2nd round pick right? His real master plan was to hand the team over to Quinn right?
Is it a smoke screen the same way last spring was a smoke screen from Savage?
He was just blowing smoke about wanting to sign DA, right? He was really planning to trade him for a 2nd round pick right? His real master plan was to hand the team over to Quinn right?
Look where the alternative landed him, dumb-ass.
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Thing about comparing this to last year is this....
When has ANYBODY said we WON'T trade DA?
Or
When has ANYBODY said DA is the STARTER?
Besides which....the Browns DID let DA go to FA last year...and signed him only after a rumor had us getting ripped off came to light.
So, whatever, believe what you want to.
I for one am not certain we will trade DA....and hope we don't unless we get at least a high 2nd....but I fully believe the Browns are exploring EVERY option.
Heck...if we got a mega deal offer for BQ...I could see us doing that as well.
We aren't winning big this year...so using your assets to better the team only makes sense.
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Total bullshit.
M&K don't talk to the press and every two bit hack is reaching for a story.
QB bashing is a favorite pastime by the press here and they're going to keep on doing it whether there is or is not a speck of truth.
Total bullshit.
M&K don't talk to the press and every two bit hack is reaching for a story.
QB bashing is a favorite pastime by the press here and they're going to keep on doing it whether there is or is not a speck of truth.
Thank you for some common sense...................................
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@shepwrite said:
Pluto basically wrote today that Quinn is the starter, the Browns are playing poker and staying patient, and Anderson will be traded for more than most fans expect. It's all smoke.Best Quotes from the Pluto article:
"...if you're General Manager George Kokinis and if you are even considering the trade of Anderson, the last thing you want is your coach declaring Quinn the starter right now."
and,
"...Odds are they prefer Quinn. New offensive coordinator Brian Daboll was a wide receiver coach in New England when Charlie Weis called the plays. Weis had Quinn at Notre Dame and insists Quinn can be star in the NFL. It seems Daboll and his offense would lean toward Quinn, given the New England offense and the influence of Weis."
and then the reason DA may bring more than Browns fans think he's worth,
"...(Browns fans don't understand) the desperation of some teams lacking a quarterback. Minnesota just traded a fourth-rounder to Houston for career backup Sage Rosenfels. Before the 2007 draft, Atlanta received two potentially high second-round picks from Houston for another backup, Matt Schaub."
This all makes plain sense. Here's how Mangini shouldn't respond to this question:
Q: "Hey coach, you're going with Quinn, right? After all, DA was the worst ranked starter last year"
A: "Of course we're going with Quinn. DA had his chance, 20+ games even, and kept falling off. He's proven he doesn't have the stuff to lead a 4 and 12 team. Let's hope there's a sucker out there to give us some draft picks".
Now, I'm not yet sold on Mangini or Quinn. BUT, I am sold on giving them a fair shot, which is why I don't get the "Quinn hasn't proven anything" sentiment. The fans supporting Quinn are all for giving him the same shot DA had and strongly hope he succeeds for the Browns sake. It has nothing to do with Quinn deserving the job because he's proven. Sanchez is unproven in the NFL, but he'll be drafted high and eventually given his chance. Same should go for Quinn and now is the time.
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@shepwrite said:
Pluto basically wrote today that Quinn is the starter, the Browns are playing poker and staying patient, and Anderson will be traded for more than most fans expect. It's all smoke.Best Quotes from the Pluto article:
"...if you're General Manager George Kokinis and if you are even considering the trade of Anderson, the last thing you want is your coach declaring Quinn the starter right now."
and,
"...Odds are they prefer Quinn. New offensive coordinator Brian Daboll was a wide receiver coach in New England when Charlie Weis called the plays. Weis had Quinn at Notre Dame and insists Quinn can be star in the NFL. It seems Daboll and his offense would lean toward Quinn, given the New England offense and the influence of Weis."
and then the reason DA may bring more than Browns fans think he's worth,
"...(Browns fans don't understand) the desperation of some teams lacking a quarterback. Minnesota just traded a fourth-rounder to Houston for career backup Sage Rosenfels. Before the 2007 draft, Atlanta received two potentially high second-round picks from Houston for another backup, Matt Schaub."
This all makes plain sense. Here's how Mangini shouldn't respond to this question:
Q: "Hey coach, you're going with Quinn, right? After all, DA was the worst ranked starter last year"
A: "Of course we're going with Quinn. DA had his chance, 20+ games even, and kept falling off. He's proven he doesn't have the stuff to lead a 4 and 12 team. Let's hope there's a sucker out there to give us some draft picks".
Now, I'm not yet sold on Mangini or Quinn. BUT, I am sold on giving them a fair shot, which is why I don't get the "Quinn hasn't proven anything" sentiment. The fans supporting Quinn are all for giving him the same shot DA had and strongly hope he succeeds for the Browns sake. It has nothing to do with Quinn deserving the job because he's proven. Sanchez is unproven in the NFL, but he'll be drafted high and eventually given his chance. Same should go for Quinn and now is the time.
I don't get the "Quinn hasn't proven anything" sentiment. The fans supporting Quinn are all for giving him the same shot DA had and strongly hope he succeeds for the Browns sake. It has nothing to do with Quinn deserving the job because he's proven. Sanchez is unproven in the NFL, but he'll be drafted high and eventually given his chance. Same should go for Quinn and now is the time.
Don't tell this to Sev "knows better." As far as he's concerned Quinn is nothing but an unproven 1st round pick, but somehow DA is "proven." The problem is....what DA has proven in over 2/3 of his starts is that he sucks....yet that "data" is conveniently ignored while propping up stats from a few games against winless teams that were played 18 months ago.
The one thing DA has proven is that he is not starter material in this league. As soon as Quinn proves the same, then I'll be just as ready to ship him off....but he's still "unproven."
Let him prove himself one way or the other, and in the meantime get what you can for the guy that has already proven himself "the other."
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From the sounds of it the FO is pretty ambivilent on BOTH Quinn and Anderson - and there's certainly the chance that NEITHER is the answer....
So if that's the case why not send signals that EITHER would be available to be traded and see what types of conversations that brings from other teams, with the team trading whichever QB gets them the most value in return.
It's not a great situation to be in period - but if that's truly how they feel, that's not a bad way to play the bad cards you're dealt with. Unfortunately the draft doesn't look all that strong at QB - but a team can certainly get lucky with a later round QB choice too.
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From the sounds of it the FO is pretty ambivilent on BOTH Quinn and Anderson - and there's certainly the chance that NEITHER is the answer....
So if that's the case why not send signals that EITHER would be available to be traded and see what types of conversations that brings from other teams, with the team trading whichever QB gets them the most value in return.
It's not a great situation to be in period - but if that's truly how they feel, that's not a bad way to play the bad cards you're dealt with. Unfortunately the draft doesn't look all that strong at QB - but a team can certainly get lucky with a later round QB choice too.
From the sounds of it the FO is pretty ambivilent on BOTH Quinn and Anderson
It's a ploy, man. Mangini must've learned it in Trading Players 101, because it's transparent as hell. I hope it isn't too transparent, or nobody's gonna offer anything...
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tim, I have stated BQ should be given a chance to prove one way or another so we at least know what we have. This concept of qb rating as a overall grade of DA is ridiculous, you would not want to hold BQ toward that measuring stick. His overall qb rating was virtually the same as DA's against the worst defenses in the nfl this means virtually nothing. The team and coaching schemes have so much influence on these statistics to use as a significant tool to assess anything.
all of this rumour from the media is just that rumour. they know as much or less than they did last year and were clearly wrong last year and in all likelyhood wrong this year.
How many of the same people on this board last year pushed all the same rumours last year about DA going to traded/released never resigned etc? quoting the same media sources? Whats the best is Free agency releases to free cap space has pretty much already happened league wide and most teams are in combine assessment mode. obviously there will be many more moves but a new regime who has never got to actually work with either qb is going to dump or trade before they even have a chance to physically assess for themselves?
makes perfect sense. trade at least a good backup if not starter of young talent for possible talent in the draft in qb starved league because they dont have to financially or contractually.. All because the 1st rounder played a mediocre 3 games against garbage defensive teams and a poor preseason. DA may not be the answer but the kid showed glimpses of talent against the Giants and a 10 win season in 07, IF that was Quinn his fans would be ecstatic. The rest would be dismissed as being young and a learning/development curve... but its not, its a doofy laid back looking guy who was practice squad material in Baltimore drafted in the 6th rouns without any media circus hype.
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I don't know man. QB rating is widely regarded as a good measuring stick. There's only one thing which can out weigh it, and that's wins. However, interceptions sabotage QB ratings and wins, as evidenced by our 4 and 12 season.
If we didn't have Quinn, I think I'd be in favor of giving DA another shot based on his pro bowl year. I still think he has strengths. He has a cannon, he is a lineman's best friend as he doesn't mess around in the pocket, he's a team guy, affable, etc. However, the '08 season is more consistent with his life long pattern of high interceptions and therefore rings true this will be his pattern in the future.
Quinn has shown glimpses of excellence as well. His pocket presence is better, he can pick up yards with his feet, his first TD pass to K2 was very athletic. Let's see what the kid has when given the reigns, with a starter level snaps in training camp and preseason. All last year he emulated the other teams offense. Not exactly a good way to gel with the first team.
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Let me be the perspective guy here:
Quinn is a first-round pick an hasn't gotten any legitimate chance to play yet.
Can anyone name me the last first round pick by any team who never played any meaningful games and was traded? Let's qualify it further to, say, in the last 5 years.
Unless Quinn is the biggest bust of all time, he needs to play for us to determine his worth. That should happen this year.
If he needs to earn it, fine, let him earn it and make him compete with someone else.
But that someone else shouldn't be DA and it's for two reasons.
1. He's got way too much baggage in Cleveland now. It was fine when he had no expectations on him and nobody cared how he did but now that everyone is gunning for him, I just don't see how he survives that. Nothing in his history suggests he's the chip-on-the-shoulder kind of guy. Rather, history shows that he's more likely to fold than to rise to the challenge.
2. He has much more trade value now than he will later. We already missed the boat on trading him once. Can we afford to do it again? Say we bring him back and let him compete with Quinn and ManKok chooses Quinn and DA is finally and officially relegated to the bench. What is his value then? And are we willing to risk that scenario?
We should take nothing ManKok says at face value until training camp. Until then, everything is speculation EXCEPT the fact that DA's trade value will never be higher than this offseason.
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The fact that we are debating a PFT talk article makes us all the much dumber. Florio hates the Browns and makes it a point to bad mouth them a few times a month. This is a media smoke screen. They are trying to raise DAs value.
AGAIN...PFT is terrible. We should have this thread locked...
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Let me be the perspective guy here:
Quinn is a first-round pick an hasn't gotten any legitimate chance to play yet.
Can anyone name me the last first round pick by any team who never played any meaningful games and was traded? Let's qualify it further to, say, in the last 5 years.
Unless Quinn is the biggest bust of all time, he needs to play for us to determine his worth. That should happen this year.
If he needs to earn it, fine, let him earn it and make him compete with someone else.
But that someone else shouldn't be DA and it's for two reasons.
1. He's got way too much baggage in Cleveland now. It was fine when he had no expectations on him and nobody cared how he did but now that everyone is gunning for him, I just don't see how he survives that. Nothing in his history suggests he's the chip-on-the-shoulder kind of guy. Rather, history shows that he's more likely to fold than to rise to the challenge.
2. He has much more trade value now than he will later. We already missed the boat on trading him once. Can we afford to do it again? Say we bring him back and let him compete with Quinn and ManKok chooses Quinn and DA is finally and officially relegated to the bench. What is his value then? And are we willing to risk that scenario?
We should take nothing ManKok says at face value until training camp. Until then, everything is speculation EXCEPT the fact that DA's trade value will never be higher than this offseason.
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@shepwrite said:
Taylor called bullshit on the article... and he's affiliated with PFT, so that's serious.Johnny Cakes Taylor has never reported anything other than Quinn = god for the past 2 years.
But it hasn't turned out that way.
Johnny Cakes Taylor is nothing more than a Quinn Fag.
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Here's the real story, direct from Anderson.
Nobody knows what's going to happen...
"We really don't know what will happen at this point!" Anderson said Wednesday via email. "I'm under contract for two more seasons in Cleveland and I owe them my full attention as long as I am a Cleveland Brown."
http://blog.oregonlive.com/nfl/2009/02/new..._might_not.html
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Here's the real story, direct from Anderson.
Nobody knows what's going to happen...
"We really don't know what will happen at this point!" Anderson said Wednesday via email. "I'm under contract for two more seasons in Cleveland and I owe them my full attention as long as I am a Cleveland Brown."
http://blog.oregonlive.com/nfl/2009/02/new..._might_not.html
Here's the real story, direct from Anderson.
Nobody knows what's going to happen...
"We really don't know what will happen at this point!" Anderson said Wednesday via email. "I'm under contract for two more seasons in Cleveland and I owe them my full attention as long as I am a Cleveland Brown."
http://blog.oregonlive.com/nfl/2009/02/new..._might_not.html
so! your lover has your email address!
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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